PLEASE someone be online...this is LONG
- Thread starter Big Bad Kitty
- Start date
Marguerite
Active Member
I know some people here, and more than just you two, Kathy & Janna, are not Ross Greene fans. That's OK, it has to be, because we're all dealing with different sorts of problems each in our own way. I recommend it so much because it was not only such a miraculous change offered to us, but it also made me change my way of thinking, drastically. if nothing else, learning to think laterally and recognise the need for change and adaptability, is helpful. Where you go, what you take from it - very much needs to be personalised. It works well for us. I wish it worked as well for you, but I do accept that it doesn't. A pity, but it's not a matter for blame or major disagreement. I might like chocolate, you might prefer strawberry. To each his own...
BBK, I'm the last one to offer much in the way of advice here - ages ago, we made the decision to not hassle the kids about untidy rooms. It comes at a cost, but it also means no meltdowns.
The kids crud their rooms, but it also means I refuse to enter those rooms. So if they have washing that needs doing, it simply won't get done unless the clothes make their way into the hall or laundry. If her room is too untidy for you to change her bed, she has to learn fast how to do it entirely on her own. When she's looking for her favourite dress to wear and it's in a crumpled heap on the floor with a sticky patch from an ice cream wrapper, it's "Oh, that's a pity, if you had found it sooner and brought it to the laundry I might have been able to wash it for you."
I have a routine that works for me. All I suggest is set up your own total household routine that works for you. having her room tidy shouldn't be on the agenda, to begin with. The art materials - if they aren't kept in order, they go out completely. It's YOUR creative space, she is only to use it if she respects it. Any other mess in the house - not acceptable. Any wrappers she drops and leaves - do not buy that food again for anybody in the house. My mother banned chewing gum from the entire house because my brothers would stick their wads of gum on the bed frames, under the dining table or on their desks. So - no gum for anybody, not the adults in the family, nor the other kids. Food only permitted in the kitchen and dining area. The only exception is me because I need to spend so much time resting - but as I'm the one who takes responsibility to ensure not a speck is left in my room (and I succeed) than I'm permitted to do it.
No soft drink in the rooms - bottle of water only.
Clean washing - this is my job (or whichever adult kid is helping me). I wash on my house-cleaning days (I have paid help because I can't manage a lot of tasks). I will ensure the washing is hung up carefully, t-shirts on hangers or folded over the line and pegged at armpits. No ironing needed. Business shirts & flannel shirts are hung on hangers, collar folded neatly, creases smoothed out, top button done up to help set the collar. No ironing needed in 99% of shirts. Trousers - folded along crease lines (zip done up, top button left undone to ensure they fold neatly). Hung on a stronger hanger, or folded over the line. They take longer to dry but shouldn't need ironing.
I get the washing in, folding and sorting carefully as I go. When the kids were younger I had a separate plastic washing tub for each person (got the idea from my sister and her five kids - each kid's clothing was colour-coded and had a colour spot inside, plus the same colour tub to put it in when clean).
Now, I simply put each person's clean clothes away for them. The adult kids, especially those with messy rooms, put their clothes away themselves. difficult child 3 does it while I watch, but most of his clothes I can hang up in his wardrobe (I can get to that without risking my ankle). That way I know I did my part of the job.
difficult child 1 is terrible at bringing me his dirty washing. I would ask, each washday, "Where are your dirty clothes?"
"haven't got any."
"What about underwear? What state is it in? Has it totally rotted to pieces yet? Do let me know when you need me to buy you more, after the previous lot has composted onto your body."
Now he lives mostly at girlfriend's parents' place, he has appearances to keep up. He gets his washing done there, so he tells me. he DOEs appear wearing clean shirts a lot more, so maybe he's telling me the truth. girlfriend is keeping him organised now.
difficult child 3 broke the rule about eating in his room. At an earlier time, so did easy child 2/difficult child 2 - she had a container of Jelly Bellys in her room.
Ant plague. Not pretty. We even had ants in our room, although there were no food scraps, not even a wrapper. They were after water, in our room. Once we stoppered all water bottles our room was clear. But difficult child 3's room - the ants had made a nest in his chest of drawers, inside the drawer casing (hollow plastic). He had to spend the night on our bedroom floor while we dragged out the furniture, fumigated it and sent him in with the vacuum cleaner to
up all the ants and their eggs. He was made to drag out stuff ono the floor and scout around for any residual wrappers, soft-drink bottles etc. Talk about consequences - difficult child 3 was the only one responsible and the only one who could safely get into his room.
He's much more careful now.
But his room is a mess. And the mess is spilling out into other parts of the house. I try to reclaim but I'm just not well enough. I throw away stuff from round the edges and where possible, I wash any clothes I can reach from the doorway and if they no longer fit difficult child 3, I give them away (after I've mended anything mendable). Frankly, because he no longer goes to mainstream school he no longer needs as many clothes. And clothes are a huge part of the problem, they take up storage space and unless they're regularly dragged out and checked for fit and condition, they can soon become outgrown and be a waste of storage space,
Today we were getting dressed up for easy child 2/difficult child 2's 21st birthday party. difficult child 3 literally didn't have anything suitable to wear - he lives in t-shirts & jeans. A few months ago we bought new jeans for him, he's already almost outgrown them. As he was getting ready today, he brought in shirts (on hangers) from his wardrobe - only one out of five shirts fitted him. The others are now loose on my bed. I can immediately give them to his younger friend because I know they are clean and in good repair (all clothes on hangers in this house are clean and neat, because of my 'system').
A friend of mine down the road suffers from depression, among other things. Her house is a mess - different from ours, but still overwhelming. But her mess was not functional (ours is mostly functional although it could be a lot better). She lives in one large house which was once two flats, so it's like a double laundry. it was full of clothes waiting to be ironed; clothes waiting to be folded; baskets here, baskets there, clothes waiting to be washed; and all of them mixed in together, with heaps falling over heaps. Where do you start?
Her problems began and got worse, the day she brought the washing in and didn't have time to immediately deal with it (depression does that to you). Then next time, she had twice as much and it was too overwhelming. But laundry doesn't go away. Especially if you have girls, they end up acquiring more clothes because they seem short of them, even with an overloaded laundry.
Just an example of how easily it can happen.
I still pick up a lot more than I should, in the rest of the house. I really recognise the kids who open something and leave the bits lying around. difficult child 3 cooks his own lunch - oven-bake fish fillets from the freezer. He leaves the empty boxes in the freezer, it really gets us riled. There are only so many times you can call him back to remove and properly dispose of the empty box. If he keeps doing it, I will stop buying his fish fillets. But calling him in to do it IS beginning to work for us. He says, "Why did you call me in from the next room to do this? You're right here; you could have done it." (I hear our own words coming back at us in this). Our reply, "We called you back because it's your responsibility and it seems to be the only way for you to learn to do it right the first time."
Yes, there are times when I pick it up, still, but there are enough times when I call the kid responsible to account, and slowly they are ALL getting the message.
Basically, respect communal areas and respect other members of the household, is a primary rule. It's somewhere between Basket A & Basket B for us, depending on which kid and the circumstances. Mostly A, though.
Something we used to do with the girls' room especially - "pick up ten things."
Once ten things are picked up and dealt with PROPERLY, it is amazing how much difference it can make. Then positive reinforcement - "How much better will it look when we pick up another ten things?"
I provide a garbage bag to put rubbish in; a plastic washing tub to put clothes in for sorting; a box for books; and so on. But we don't do too much at once and we try to clear an area properly, not simply moving the mess from one room to another, which later then gets moved back as we clear the second area! The rubbish bag has to go in the bin; the too-small clothes HAVE to leave the house before replacement clothes are bought; the dirty clothes HAVE to go in the laundry and later HAVE to be put away properly.
We have a large spare room. Right now, BF2 is living in it. We used to allow each kid to move out there while dealing with their final year of high school - it gave more privacy for late-night study, more space and a chance to feel a bit more independent.
But difficult child 1 spoilt it. He crudded up the space so fast, so badly, it's never fully recovered. We made him move out back to his own room (which he shares with difficult child 3). He's a lot better at organising his own space now, but his things are too numerous and too large to fit into the space we can allow. HIs array of medieval weapons; his massive collection of Star Wards memorabilia (including huge light sabers) and all his collectables drive me crazy. But when they annoy me, I move them to his room and put them on his bed. He knows what this means - "I'm being nice. I could have thrown this away. Do not leave it in the living room again."
BBK, I think you are right to do this now, while she is young. Reclaim your communal space and remind her that her use of the craft room is under sufferance - there are conditions of neatness required and if she can't comply, then she loses it. But you might have to let her have a messy room, providing no food or drink is consumed or stored in there. This includes wrappers.
One more thing about the laundry - you mightn't have this problem with Tink, but I did with the boys, especially - they collect 'bits' of things, sticks, bottle caps, stones, plastic scraps, and their pockets would turn up full of rubbish. I keep a bucket in the laundry and empty all pockets into it.
Then there was the time when difficult child 3 started school but was still using Pull-Ups - I forgot to check is trousers for discarded Pull-Ups before I did the laundry. Have you ever tried to clean that stuff out of the washing machine? Not recommended...
Kathy, thanks for the info about this other guy. I'll have a look, do some digging. I'm always open to new suggestions and point of view.
Hang in there, BBK.
Marg
BBK, I'm the last one to offer much in the way of advice here - ages ago, we made the decision to not hassle the kids about untidy rooms. It comes at a cost, but it also means no meltdowns.
The kids crud their rooms, but it also means I refuse to enter those rooms. So if they have washing that needs doing, it simply won't get done unless the clothes make their way into the hall or laundry. If her room is too untidy for you to change her bed, she has to learn fast how to do it entirely on her own. When she's looking for her favourite dress to wear and it's in a crumpled heap on the floor with a sticky patch from an ice cream wrapper, it's "Oh, that's a pity, if you had found it sooner and brought it to the laundry I might have been able to wash it for you."
I have a routine that works for me. All I suggest is set up your own total household routine that works for you. having her room tidy shouldn't be on the agenda, to begin with. The art materials - if they aren't kept in order, they go out completely. It's YOUR creative space, she is only to use it if she respects it. Any other mess in the house - not acceptable. Any wrappers she drops and leaves - do not buy that food again for anybody in the house. My mother banned chewing gum from the entire house because my brothers would stick their wads of gum on the bed frames, under the dining table or on their desks. So - no gum for anybody, not the adults in the family, nor the other kids. Food only permitted in the kitchen and dining area. The only exception is me because I need to spend so much time resting - but as I'm the one who takes responsibility to ensure not a speck is left in my room (and I succeed) than I'm permitted to do it.
No soft drink in the rooms - bottle of water only.
Clean washing - this is my job (or whichever adult kid is helping me). I wash on my house-cleaning days (I have paid help because I can't manage a lot of tasks). I will ensure the washing is hung up carefully, t-shirts on hangers or folded over the line and pegged at armpits. No ironing needed. Business shirts & flannel shirts are hung on hangers, collar folded neatly, creases smoothed out, top button done up to help set the collar. No ironing needed in 99% of shirts. Trousers - folded along crease lines (zip done up, top button left undone to ensure they fold neatly). Hung on a stronger hanger, or folded over the line. They take longer to dry but shouldn't need ironing.
I get the washing in, folding and sorting carefully as I go. When the kids were younger I had a separate plastic washing tub for each person (got the idea from my sister and her five kids - each kid's clothing was colour-coded and had a colour spot inside, plus the same colour tub to put it in when clean).
Now, I simply put each person's clean clothes away for them. The adult kids, especially those with messy rooms, put their clothes away themselves. difficult child 3 does it while I watch, but most of his clothes I can hang up in his wardrobe (I can get to that without risking my ankle). That way I know I did my part of the job.
difficult child 1 is terrible at bringing me his dirty washing. I would ask, each washday, "Where are your dirty clothes?"
"haven't got any."
"What about underwear? What state is it in? Has it totally rotted to pieces yet? Do let me know when you need me to buy you more, after the previous lot has composted onto your body."
Now he lives mostly at girlfriend's parents' place, he has appearances to keep up. He gets his washing done there, so he tells me. he DOEs appear wearing clean shirts a lot more, so maybe he's telling me the truth. girlfriend is keeping him organised now.
difficult child 3 broke the rule about eating in his room. At an earlier time, so did easy child 2/difficult child 2 - she had a container of Jelly Bellys in her room.
Ant plague. Not pretty. We even had ants in our room, although there were no food scraps, not even a wrapper. They were after water, in our room. Once we stoppered all water bottles our room was clear. But difficult child 3's room - the ants had made a nest in his chest of drawers, inside the drawer casing (hollow plastic). He had to spend the night on our bedroom floor while we dragged out the furniture, fumigated it and sent him in with the vacuum cleaner to
up all the ants and their eggs. He was made to drag out stuff ono the floor and scout around for any residual wrappers, soft-drink bottles etc. Talk about consequences - difficult child 3 was the only one responsible and the only one who could safely get into his room.He's much more careful now.
But his room is a mess. And the mess is spilling out into other parts of the house. I try to reclaim but I'm just not well enough. I throw away stuff from round the edges and where possible, I wash any clothes I can reach from the doorway and if they no longer fit difficult child 3, I give them away (after I've mended anything mendable). Frankly, because he no longer goes to mainstream school he no longer needs as many clothes. And clothes are a huge part of the problem, they take up storage space and unless they're regularly dragged out and checked for fit and condition, they can soon become outgrown and be a waste of storage space,
Today we were getting dressed up for easy child 2/difficult child 2's 21st birthday party. difficult child 3 literally didn't have anything suitable to wear - he lives in t-shirts & jeans. A few months ago we bought new jeans for him, he's already almost outgrown them. As he was getting ready today, he brought in shirts (on hangers) from his wardrobe - only one out of five shirts fitted him. The others are now loose on my bed. I can immediately give them to his younger friend because I know they are clean and in good repair (all clothes on hangers in this house are clean and neat, because of my 'system').
A friend of mine down the road suffers from depression, among other things. Her house is a mess - different from ours, but still overwhelming. But her mess was not functional (ours is mostly functional although it could be a lot better). She lives in one large house which was once two flats, so it's like a double laundry. it was full of clothes waiting to be ironed; clothes waiting to be folded; baskets here, baskets there, clothes waiting to be washed; and all of them mixed in together, with heaps falling over heaps. Where do you start?
Her problems began and got worse, the day she brought the washing in and didn't have time to immediately deal with it (depression does that to you). Then next time, she had twice as much and it was too overwhelming. But laundry doesn't go away. Especially if you have girls, they end up acquiring more clothes because they seem short of them, even with an overloaded laundry.
Just an example of how easily it can happen.
I still pick up a lot more than I should, in the rest of the house. I really recognise the kids who open something and leave the bits lying around. difficult child 3 cooks his own lunch - oven-bake fish fillets from the freezer. He leaves the empty boxes in the freezer, it really gets us riled. There are only so many times you can call him back to remove and properly dispose of the empty box. If he keeps doing it, I will stop buying his fish fillets. But calling him in to do it IS beginning to work for us. He says, "Why did you call me in from the next room to do this? You're right here; you could have done it." (I hear our own words coming back at us in this). Our reply, "We called you back because it's your responsibility and it seems to be the only way for you to learn to do it right the first time."
Yes, there are times when I pick it up, still, but there are enough times when I call the kid responsible to account, and slowly they are ALL getting the message.
Basically, respect communal areas and respect other members of the household, is a primary rule. It's somewhere between Basket A & Basket B for us, depending on which kid and the circumstances. Mostly A, though.
Something we used to do with the girls' room especially - "pick up ten things."
Once ten things are picked up and dealt with PROPERLY, it is amazing how much difference it can make. Then positive reinforcement - "How much better will it look when we pick up another ten things?"
I provide a garbage bag to put rubbish in; a plastic washing tub to put clothes in for sorting; a box for books; and so on. But we don't do too much at once and we try to clear an area properly, not simply moving the mess from one room to another, which later then gets moved back as we clear the second area! The rubbish bag has to go in the bin; the too-small clothes HAVE to leave the house before replacement clothes are bought; the dirty clothes HAVE to go in the laundry and later HAVE to be put away properly.
We have a large spare room. Right now, BF2 is living in it. We used to allow each kid to move out there while dealing with their final year of high school - it gave more privacy for late-night study, more space and a chance to feel a bit more independent.
But difficult child 1 spoilt it. He crudded up the space so fast, so badly, it's never fully recovered. We made him move out back to his own room (which he shares with difficult child 3). He's a lot better at organising his own space now, but his things are too numerous and too large to fit into the space we can allow. HIs array of medieval weapons; his massive collection of Star Wards memorabilia (including huge light sabers) and all his collectables drive me crazy. But when they annoy me, I move them to his room and put them on his bed. He knows what this means - "I'm being nice. I could have thrown this away. Do not leave it in the living room again."
BBK, I think you are right to do this now, while she is young. Reclaim your communal space and remind her that her use of the craft room is under sufferance - there are conditions of neatness required and if she can't comply, then she loses it. But you might have to let her have a messy room, providing no food or drink is consumed or stored in there. This includes wrappers.
One more thing about the laundry - you mightn't have this problem with Tink, but I did with the boys, especially - they collect 'bits' of things, sticks, bottle caps, stones, plastic scraps, and their pockets would turn up full of rubbish. I keep a bucket in the laundry and empty all pockets into it.
Then there was the time when difficult child 3 started school but was still using Pull-Ups - I forgot to check is trousers for discarded Pull-Ups before I did the laundry. Have you ever tried to clean that stuff out of the washing machine? Not recommended...
Kathy, thanks for the info about this other guy. I'll have a look, do some digging. I'm always open to new suggestions and point of view.
Hang in there, BBK.
Marg
K
Kjs
Guest
Me...It drives me nuts. But it is all kids I think. Not just difficult child's. I shut the door. If he wants friends over, or spend the night he has to pick it up so they can make their way into the room.
easy child - He's 24. Does the same thing. He only lives here half the time. He gets really angry when I clean his room.
There are times when I just can't take it and I clean it.
difficult child now has chores that he must do. Finally (he's 12) husband never enforced it before, now he does. difficult child must vacuum the whole house. When you have two black dogs...you must vaccuum often.
He also must do laundry. I sort into batches, he washes, dry's and folds. Trouble is I can't get him to PUT away.
Dishes..rinse and put in dishwasher. Unload dishwasher.
With the puppy he has learned if he doesn't pick up his things, like ipod, games, baseball equipment..they will be gone. Puppy has chewed up the remote(ours), my cell phone (ate it), chewed a music cd and a computer game to peices. So, we warn him if he leaves it out it will be gone. Even putting it in his baseball bag, puppy will chew the bag. Getting better, but I wouldn't trust her.
So, rooms..I think that is normal kid stuff.
easy child - He's 24. Does the same thing. He only lives here half the time. He gets really angry when I clean his room.
There are times when I just can't take it and I clean it.
difficult child now has chores that he must do. Finally (he's 12) husband never enforced it before, now he does. difficult child must vacuum the whole house. When you have two black dogs...you must vaccuum often.
He also must do laundry. I sort into batches, he washes, dry's and folds. Trouble is I can't get him to PUT away.
Dishes..rinse and put in dishwasher. Unload dishwasher.
With the puppy he has learned if he doesn't pick up his things, like ipod, games, baseball equipment..they will be gone. Puppy has chewed up the remote(ours), my cell phone (ate it), chewed a music cd and a computer game to peices. So, we warn him if he leaves it out it will be gone. Even putting it in his baseball bag, puppy will chew the bag. Getting better, but I wouldn't trust her.
So, rooms..I think that is normal kid stuff.
I know exactly what this frustation feels like, my difficult child was completely like this with everything. He was suspended from school so often, and we punished him by not allowing him to go out. He could earn it back though by cleaning his room. by the way his room looked like a tornado hit it. Literally. But he would rather just take the punishment. I never understand-all he had to do was clean it. This went on forever, when he was 5 through H.S. I think it was a power thing. Plus he just didn't care. It was fun upsetting me. Just like all his difficult child behavior, and entire personality,it was about bugging everyone he came in contact with. He never tired of this, this is how he behaves now at age 20. Persoally, he kept his door shut, I never went in there. It is so hard when the child seems to be "in charge". But stick with what you're doing. Don't let her go out, or do fun activities. ANYTHING. She will get tired of not going out, and maybe it will take awhile, just wait her out. I made the mistake that difficult child had fun things in his room. Take away all fun things if you can. Have her bring them to you, not telling her why at first.- Hang in there, (((hugs)))-Alyssa
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Ilovemysons...your not the only one that has happened to. I used to frequent a forum where I cried out my pain over something that happened to my middle son when his girlfriend cheated on him and it was really hurting me. They actually called tried to call the police on me because I said something about if he went through with marrying her after knowing all the stuff she had done and she was blaming me for it that he would be dead to me. They said that they would tell the police that I threatened his life!
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Woke up this morning, Tink puts on a dress and asks me to tie the matching kerchief on her head. She says it's good clothes for her, since she is cleaning. I try not to chuckle. 2 minutes later she changes her clothes becasue she decided she is not going to clean her room after all. Whatever. I'm sticking with what I said (not because I want to look at her face all day, but becasue I want her to take me seriously). She is NOT leaving that room except to eat or go to the bathroom until it is picked up.
9:45 AM, I got on the board today with the intention of responding to every single post. In the time it took me to read the new posts. I get through a couple, realize that perhaps she CAN'T do it alone. I get up to help her and the first thing I find is that she took the plastic cylindrical container of Qtips out of the bathroom and they are all over her floor. I can't stop myself. I feel myself losing control of my big mouth, and I can't stop it. I tell her that she ruins everything and she can pick up her f'n mess herself.
And I am sitting her bawling because I don't mean it. What the **** am I doing wrong?
She would have had that room clean 10X by now. She could be out playing. I'm like, just DO it and it will be DONE! Nope, she sits in the doorway pouting.
9:45 AM, I got on the board today with the intention of responding to every single post. In the time it took me to read the new posts. I get through a couple, realize that perhaps she CAN'T do it alone. I get up to help her and the first thing I find is that she took the plastic cylindrical container of Qtips out of the bathroom and they are all over her floor. I can't stop myself. I feel myself losing control of my big mouth, and I can't stop it. I tell her that she ruins everything and she can pick up her f'n mess herself.
And I am sitting her bawling because I don't mean it. What the **** am I doing wrong?
She would have had that room clean 10X by now. She could be out playing. I'm like, just DO it and it will be DONE! Nope, she sits in the doorway pouting.
LittleDudesMom
Well-Known Member
I have found, for me, that it's easier to keep it clean than let it get messy! If you let it get messy, it's more overwhelming and you are more in a mindset to just leave it than tackle it.
One thing you might want to try hon is just sitting in there with her and guiding her. That's what I still do with difficult child and he's going to bve 12 this weel. He does much better when I'm there saying "ok, get the legos out of the way first, then you'll have a place to walk." That, and he learns what clean up really means - rather than the stuff the drawers, closets and under the bed method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't allow food upstairs in the bedrooms unless the kids are really sick then they get a tray. That helps eliminate some of the mess that could accumulate. Also, my kids are trained (after many years)to pick up everything that is theirs around the house before going upstairs to bed. One day a week, for easy child it's Saturday and difficult child it's Sunday, they have to have their rooms totally cleaned up - no exceptions.
And, I'm a lot meaner than Marg. My easy child has been doing her own laundry for a couple years. One too many times was I finding myself cleaning what wasn't dirty, just tried on. So I told her she was responsible for her own laundry. I actually feel like this is good for her. She had to show her best bud, last summer at 15, how to use the washer/dryer so she could wash her uniform for work! It's beyond me how a kid could reach 15 and not know how to operate a washer.
Anyway, baby steps is the way to go I think. You are not going to be able to make a big change in her attitude and willingness to clean up right away. She's not been having to comply for awhile so it's not going to be easy. Also, at age 6, she's a little young to be tackling a really overwhelmingly messy room by herself. It probably seems like an "eternity" job to her. Take little steps every day. Remain firm, tackle that which bothers you the most first.
And finally, breath deep and stay strong. You can make a change in her for the better by sticking to your guns and remaining strong.
One thing you might want to try hon is just sitting in there with her and guiding her. That's what I still do with difficult child and he's going to bve 12 this weel. He does much better when I'm there saying "ok, get the legos out of the way first, then you'll have a place to walk." That, and he learns what clean up really means - rather than the stuff the drawers, closets and under the bed method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't allow food upstairs in the bedrooms unless the kids are really sick then they get a tray. That helps eliminate some of the mess that could accumulate. Also, my kids are trained (after many years)to pick up everything that is theirs around the house before going upstairs to bed. One day a week, for easy child it's Saturday and difficult child it's Sunday, they have to have their rooms totally cleaned up - no exceptions.
And, I'm a lot meaner than Marg. My easy child has been doing her own laundry for a couple years. One too many times was I finding myself cleaning what wasn't dirty, just tried on. So I told her she was responsible for her own laundry. I actually feel like this is good for her. She had to show her best bud, last summer at 15, how to use the washer/dryer so she could wash her uniform for work! It's beyond me how a kid could reach 15 and not know how to operate a washer.
Anyway, baby steps is the way to go I think. You are not going to be able to make a big change in her attitude and willingness to clean up right away. She's not been having to comply for awhile so it's not going to be easy. Also, at age 6, she's a little young to be tackling a really overwhelmingly messy room by herself. It probably seems like an "eternity" job to her. Take little steps every day. Remain firm, tackle that which bothers you the most first.
And finally, breath deep and stay strong. You can make a change in her for the better by sticking to your guns and remaining strong.
meowbunny
New Member
been there done that up to and including kicking myself for the ugly things that spewed out of my mouth out of frustration.
I don't know if you read my post of the condition of her room while she was gone but a pigsty was cleaner and more sanitary! However, it has gotten better now that she's returned. The one thing I realized was that even at 20 her room was too overwhelming for her to clean alone. She just didn't have the organizational skills.
So, when you're up to it, try again. Brace yourself that you're going to find things in there that are really going to upset you -- either because of the dirtiness or because it is something you treasured that is now dirty or wrecked. As hard as it is, for now let it go. I actually put my damaged things in one box and made my daughter pay for them. When she was little, it was via chores with a list and the value of that chore. Now, it is out of her own money (and, boy, does she HATE to spend her money on my things). Of course, after the two of you clean it, be prepared for it to be a mess in an hour.
We did have one day a week for nothing but cleaning her room when she was younger. I tried to make it into different games each time. One time it would be who could put the most clothes in piles (sorted for washing). Basketball into bins for toys, etc. Bonuses for a every green item, etc. It did get the room cleaned and saved a few battles.
I don't know if you read my post of the condition of her room while she was gone but a pigsty was cleaner and more sanitary! However, it has gotten better now that she's returned. The one thing I realized was that even at 20 her room was too overwhelming for her to clean alone. She just didn't have the organizational skills.
So, when you're up to it, try again. Brace yourself that you're going to find things in there that are really going to upset you -- either because of the dirtiness or because it is something you treasured that is now dirty or wrecked. As hard as it is, for now let it go. I actually put my damaged things in one box and made my daughter pay for them. When she was little, it was via chores with a list and the value of that chore. Now, it is out of her own money (and, boy, does she HATE to spend her money on my things). Of course, after the two of you clean it, be prepared for it to be a mess in an hour.
We did have one day a week for nothing but cleaning her room when she was younger. I tried to make it into different games each time. One time it would be who could put the most clothes in piles (sorted for washing). Basketball into bins for toys, etc. Bonuses for a every green item, etc. It did get the room cleaned and saved a few battles.
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Okay, not making excuses, just explaining my situation.
When I was feeling better, I would often clean up her room when she was at her dad's for the weekend. I figured if I wanted it clean, it would be up to me. When I got sick, she was informed that it was up to her. I got on her about picking up every day. BUT I was sick and could not oversee it. And let me tell you, she can mess up a room in a half hour.
As far as laundry goes, if we had a washer & dryer in the house, it would be a whole different story. But the laundry room is outside, down the stairs, and in another room. It takes quarters which A- I normally do not have and B- I am not usually even feeling good enough to go and get. In OUR situation, my mom and my dad come by every once in awhile and pick up my laundry to do it for me.
So, even if I were to let her keep her room a sty, dirty nasty clothes and all, we'd end up having a problem when she ran out of clothes.
here is the other thing, and possibly part of her attitude - she has not seen her dad in over a month, and she knows where he is. Which also mean that I have not had a break from her in over a month. Nobody else will take her. Nobody else can handle her. And, according to my MOM, that is MY fault, because if I knew how to keep her in line, she would have more respect for adults. and then more adults would be willing to take her for awhile.
I can't do this.
When I was feeling better, I would often clean up her room when she was at her dad's for the weekend. I figured if I wanted it clean, it would be up to me. When I got sick, she was informed that it was up to her. I got on her about picking up every day. BUT I was sick and could not oversee it. And let me tell you, she can mess up a room in a half hour.
As far as laundry goes, if we had a washer & dryer in the house, it would be a whole different story. But the laundry room is outside, down the stairs, and in another room. It takes quarters which A- I normally do not have and B- I am not usually even feeling good enough to go and get. In OUR situation, my mom and my dad come by every once in awhile and pick up my laundry to do it for me.
So, even if I were to let her keep her room a sty, dirty nasty clothes and all, we'd end up having a problem when she ran out of clothes.
here is the other thing, and possibly part of her attitude - she has not seen her dad in over a month, and she knows where he is. Which also mean that I have not had a break from her in over a month. Nobody else will take her. Nobody else can handle her. And, according to my MOM, that is MY fault, because if I knew how to keep her in line, she would have more respect for adults. and then more adults would be willing to take her for awhile.
I can't do this.
Wish I could help you out, literally. I would take Tink for the day to give you a break. I deal with cleaning the room issue with difficult child#2. (The 2 boys share a room, difficult child#3 hardly goes in there, other than to sleep. His toys are in another room.) I have to wait until there is something he REALLY REALLY wants to do and I'll tell him not until that room is spotless.
I know how hard it is for me to follow through when I am in a depression, so I can only imagine how hard it is for you with all you go through with your medical problems. Wish I could make it better....Stay Strong, You're a good mother and you know what you're doing! You will get though this...
Nancy
I know how hard it is for me to follow through when I am in a depression, so I can only imagine how hard it is for you with all you go through with your medical problems. Wish I could make it better....Stay Strong, You're a good mother and you know what you're doing! You will get though this...
Nancy
On_Call
New Member
BKK,
Many hugs to you. If you were feeling 100% well yourself, this would still be a difficult situation. I wish I could come over and give you a hand. Don't beat yourself up about yelling - I think we've all BT and DT. I have been angry with myself for some of the things I have said, but when you are pushed and pushed beyond your limits, things get said.
Our difficult child has just enough Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) in him to keep his rooom (mostly) neat as a pin. easy child on the other hand, is the one with all of the toys with tiny pieces (Bratz earrings, doll house furniture, etc.) and has no organizational skills whatsoever. I literally have to go into her room, turn off all tvs and or music and sit on her bed and direct and supervise every move she makes - broken down in tiny steps. She cries at first, usually because she is so overwhelmed. And she whines (which makes my skin crawl), but eventually, she starts to see where she is making some progess (and I make a huge deal about it) and keeps going. She moves like molasses, but it gets done. When she starts to see progress, I suggest she can turn her music back on while she works - sort of like a mini-reward. Seems to work with her, but she is still not able to clean on her own - I have to go in each and every time. It is usually at least a 2 hour process, but worth it in the end.
I know you're not feeling well, but could you go in and lie on her bed and direct Tink?
So sorry that so many things are going badly at once. Still more hugs and positive vibes coming your way.
Many hugs to you. If you were feeling 100% well yourself, this would still be a difficult situation. I wish I could come over and give you a hand. Don't beat yourself up about yelling - I think we've all BT and DT. I have been angry with myself for some of the things I have said, but when you are pushed and pushed beyond your limits, things get said.
Our difficult child has just enough Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) in him to keep his rooom (mostly) neat as a pin. easy child on the other hand, is the one with all of the toys with tiny pieces (Bratz earrings, doll house furniture, etc.) and has no organizational skills whatsoever. I literally have to go into her room, turn off all tvs and or music and sit on her bed and direct and supervise every move she makes - broken down in tiny steps. She cries at first, usually because she is so overwhelmed. And she whines (which makes my skin crawl), but eventually, she starts to see where she is making some progess (and I make a huge deal about it) and keeps going. She moves like molasses, but it gets done. When she starts to see progress, I suggest she can turn her music back on while she works - sort of like a mini-reward. Seems to work with her, but she is still not able to clean on her own - I have to go in each and every time. It is usually at least a 2 hour process, but worth it in the end.
I know you're not feeling well, but could you go in and lie on her bed and direct Tink?
So sorry that so many things are going badly at once. Still more hugs and positive vibes coming your way.
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
The room is clean.
"Tink, go in your room. Pick up something. Anything. OK, now put it where it goes. Now another. Now put IT where it goes."
Meanwhile I sorted her clothes. After awhile I tell her I need to sit. She says she needs a break. HA! Not. She put three whole things away. I tell her to go through and get all the trash. I am happy to see that she had NOT brought any food into her room. The food wrappers were left for me in the living room, isn't she a darling. Anyways, I watch her. She picks up some, and says "I'm done". I'm thinking, Heather, that she is like Wynter. She just does not see what I see. I point it out. She misses it. How does she miss a pile of garbage?
We finally get through the room. I ask her "don't you like it better like this?" Her answer, "I was just thinking about that. I was wishing. Wishing that God could help me, if I clean half the mess, maybe he could too."
Dr. Jeckyll. Mrs. Hyde.
"Tink, go in your room. Pick up something. Anything. OK, now put it where it goes. Now another. Now put IT where it goes."
Meanwhile I sorted her clothes. After awhile I tell her I need to sit. She says she needs a break. HA! Not. She put three whole things away. I tell her to go through and get all the trash. I am happy to see that she had NOT brought any food into her room. The food wrappers were left for me in the living room, isn't she a darling. Anyways, I watch her. She picks up some, and says "I'm done". I'm thinking, Heather, that she is like Wynter. She just does not see what I see. I point it out. She misses it. How does she miss a pile of garbage?
We finally get through the room. I ask her "don't you like it better like this?" Her answer, "I was just thinking about that. I was wishing. Wishing that God could help me, if I clean half the mess, maybe he could too."
Dr. Jeckyll. Mrs. Hyde.
nvts
Active Member
<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'> </span> <span style="color: #CC0000"> </span> <span style='font-size: 20pt'> </span> CONGRATULATIONS!
<span style="color: #330033"> </span> <span style='font-size: 11pt'> </span>
You did it! I knew you could! You outsmarted, outlived and outplayed! You won survivor (too bad there wasn't a million bucks for the winner!).
Now whatta ya gonna do about the hair? :rofl:
Truly: I'm glad it worked out!
Beth
<span style="color: #330033"> </span> <span style='font-size: 11pt'> </span>
You did it! I knew you could! You outsmarted, outlived and outplayed! You won survivor (too bad there wasn't a million bucks for the winner!).
Now whatta ya gonna do about the hair? :rofl:
Truly: I'm glad it worked out!
Beth
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
her hair:
God love her, all she did was cut her bangs, and she did (I am TRYING not to choke on my own words here) a pretty good job.
I will NEVER tell her that. And she will NEVER find the scissors.
God love her, all she did was cut her bangs, and she did (I am TRYING not to choke on my own words here) a pretty good job.
I will NEVER tell her that. And she will NEVER find the scissors.
There is nothing wrong with you supervising her as long as she is doing the work.
As far as saying something that you shouldn't have out of frustration ~ been there done that. There isn't a saint on the board as far as I know.
Savor the victories and gird your strength for the next battle.
~Kathy
DazedandConfused
Well-Known Member
BBK,
She's six. And a difficult child on top of that. I'm not implying that what you want is unreasonable, but I try to remember that when I'm ready to give my darlings the boot out the door.
Both of MY difficult children don't see it. And, at times, it makes me feel absolutely crazy! However, when I remember when I was their ages, I didn't see it either. It simply wasn't important. My Dad was compulsively neat, and oh the battles that went on during my growing up. Epic battles.
When Son comes home from school he throws his back pack right in the middle of the walk way into the living room. When he cleans it out, he leaves the contents he wants to keep all over the floor. Without fail, I have to call him in and tell him to pick it up. Does he get annoyed? Yep, most of the time. Whatever, feel annoyed, Kid, just get it picked up.
Well, I think I would like to get on that deal!
I hope you don't think I find your situation amusing. I know how frustrating difficult children can be. I got into a yelling match with Daughter yesterday (She's, like, going to be SOOO out of here when she's 18). Typical teen stuff, but she's NEARLY 16 and knows it all. I'm Mom, otherwise known as The Idiot (I know she THINKS it..lol).
She also has the VERY annoying habit of using a dish and putting it on the counter ABOVE the dishwasher! You'd think she put it IN the wishwasher, but NOOO. I've even come home to finding a STACK OF dishes there. So, I tell her to put them in the dishwasher, and she does without protest. When I ask her why she didn't just put them in there in the first place, she responds with "I just didn't think about it". Oy!
Try to take care, BBK. I would take Tink off your hands for the day in a sec if I didn't live 2000 miles away. I know it's so hard to deal with this kind of stuff when your not feeling healthy.
Keep venting if it helps.
(((hugs)))
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Several of you have said that you would take her for a day if you could; bless you all.
Dazed, even I find humor in the situation. As I go over it in my head, I find it amusing. I sometimes have to step out of myself to find that humor. That is how we cope. I'm just not coping so good today.
I left out that my mom is in Michigan for a week, dad is in Vegas with my one brother who lives close by, and nobody knows when DEX is getting out of jail. SO, the support I have grown used to having is not here. Can't call mom to vent. Can't ask dad to help with the shopping. And Tink can't get away to her daddy's. I'm a bit stressed with school starting next week (oh but when it does...she will be in school ALL day. yippee!).
I know. I'm blabbing. Things are not that bad. I am blessed to have help when I do have it, and I can't even explain my gratitude at everyone's outpouring of help and support.
Dazed, even I find humor in the situation. As I go over it in my head, I find it amusing. I sometimes have to step out of myself to find that humor. That is how we cope. I'm just not coping so good today.
I left out that my mom is in Michigan for a week, dad is in Vegas with my one brother who lives close by, and nobody knows when DEX is getting out of jail. SO, the support I have grown used to having is not here. Can't call mom to vent. Can't ask dad to help with the shopping. And Tink can't get away to her daddy's. I'm a bit stressed with school starting next week (oh but when it does...she will be in school ALL day. yippee!).
I know. I'm blabbing. Things are not that bad. I am blessed to have help when I do have it, and I can't even explain my gratitude at everyone's outpouring of help and support.
busywend
Well-Known Member
BBK, your difficult child is only 6. That is something to keep in mind while determining the expectations you set on her.
My difficult child at 16 can not clean her room on her own. She needs step by step instructions - and even then it still sometimes ends up in a meltdown. I tell her, 'go pick up all the clothes and come back when that is done.' Sometimes that is all she can take for the day - it is not manipulation - I have watched this kid go through this for years. If she comes back with pride she will be able to keep going. It is almost a game in her mind - one we played when she was younger. Then I will send her in to pick up all the books, or papers, or whatever else is on the floor.
My difficult child knows how to do laundry. But, frankly, I do not trust her with the new maching machine. She will overfill it, or use too much soap. It is not due to defiance (which she exhibits frequently) but it is due to not being able to focus on the task at hand. I require her to bring her dishes to the sink - not in the dishwasher. I have tried many times to teach her how to load it. Not capable yet (at least to my own comfort level), but I will keep trying every 6 months or so.
At 6, there are probably many methods to try before you move to 'making life easier' by doing it all yourself. I know many members do not get that concept - especially if there is not tremendous defiance by their child. I get it. I did it, not until 12, but I did it. Mostly because I could not stand to live in the warzone and I did not see it as being healthy for her either.
Yes, I tried it all. Every possible method including practically standing on my head to get her to do what I asked of her. It only ended up in a battle.
I was told I was too hard on her, too strict, too easy, too...you name it I was accused of it. BECAUSE I HAD TRIED ALL OF THOSE METHODS of parenting my child. I tried it all. Still, battleground. I decided it was not healthy for us to live that way and I stopped asking her to clean her room or take a shower or brush her teeth. I went for natural consequences. Maybe if she realizes her favorite shirt smells, she will put it in the laundry. Nope. She would just wear stinky clothes. We are JUST getting to the point that she cares if she stinks.
What helps me when I hear others tell me I need to 'whatever they suggest' is to truly know and believe I did everything every possible way with little to no positive results. I am ready for the wide shoulders I will need when she is older and I am blamed for everything.
I also know that other people will never understand my household and my parenting techniques. It is OK. I know in my heart I am a great mom. I have done the best I could ever do.
My difficult child at 16 can not clean her room on her own. She needs step by step instructions - and even then it still sometimes ends up in a meltdown. I tell her, 'go pick up all the clothes and come back when that is done.' Sometimes that is all she can take for the day - it is not manipulation - I have watched this kid go through this for years. If she comes back with pride she will be able to keep going. It is almost a game in her mind - one we played when she was younger. Then I will send her in to pick up all the books, or papers, or whatever else is on the floor.
My difficult child knows how to do laundry. But, frankly, I do not trust her with the new maching machine. She will overfill it, or use too much soap. It is not due to defiance (which she exhibits frequently) but it is due to not being able to focus on the task at hand. I require her to bring her dishes to the sink - not in the dishwasher. I have tried many times to teach her how to load it. Not capable yet (at least to my own comfort level), but I will keep trying every 6 months or so.
At 6, there are probably many methods to try before you move to 'making life easier' by doing it all yourself. I know many members do not get that concept - especially if there is not tremendous defiance by their child. I get it. I did it, not until 12, but I did it. Mostly because I could not stand to live in the warzone and I did not see it as being healthy for her either.
Yes, I tried it all. Every possible method including practically standing on my head to get her to do what I asked of her. It only ended up in a battle.
I was told I was too hard on her, too strict, too easy, too...you name it I was accused of it. BECAUSE I HAD TRIED ALL OF THOSE METHODS of parenting my child. I tried it all. Still, battleground. I decided it was not healthy for us to live that way and I stopped asking her to clean her room or take a shower or brush her teeth. I went for natural consequences. Maybe if she realizes her favorite shirt smells, she will put it in the laundry. Nope. She would just wear stinky clothes. We are JUST getting to the point that she cares if she stinks.
What helps me when I hear others tell me I need to 'whatever they suggest' is to truly know and believe I did everything every possible way with little to no positive results. I am ready for the wide shoulders I will need when she is older and I am blamed for everything.
I also know that other people will never understand my household and my parenting techniques. It is OK. I know in my heart I am a great mom. I have done the best I could ever do.
