Problems with 19 Year Old Son

[Nancy]

ying and yang, I'm sorry that none of your interventions worked with your son and sadly, sometimes in spite of our best efforts, they don't work. When parents come to this board they are usually in the darkest hours of their lives and we do our best to support them. I have seen miracles happen, young people do recover from substance abuse every day. As a parent of a 20 year old who is addicted to alcohol I have to believe that there is help out there. Sometimes we have to know when to pulll back and let our child find their own way, but many times the support of family is the only thing that gets them into recovery. I am very sorry for your son and hope that someday he wants to change his life.

Nancy

 

[DammitJanet]

Pitt...I think you were put in that awful position where nothing you could do would have been right. You were just plain damned. If you had hung up that phone and told your son to stuff it and gone ahead with your plans as they were (and I think this is what your wife and friends wanted you to do if I read it correctly), then if your son was found hurt or heaven forbid, dead, your family would have turned against you with fury saying you hadnt done the right thing. Now that you have a ruined vacation and son is being an ass, well, your the ass.. Sigh.

Many of us have been there before. Sure not exactly the same situations but our kids do tend to try our souls. I do think you and your wife need to sit down together and figure out just what your plans are and where your line in the sand is. That is so very important. You cannot waiver. I learned the hard way that my sons dad and I had to be a strong team. It made him be a better person.

It may be you are going to have to let your son experience some hard knocks before he decides he is ready to learn from them. It is very hard to watch. I know that one from experience.

 

[CrazyinVA]

I think the positive in this is that your son now knows he can't make such threats idly. They will be taken seriously. Please remember that *you* didn't put him in that hospital, he put himself there with his threats. Don't let him put that on your shoulders.

Hang in there..

 

[Kathy813]

yingandyang,

Welcome to the CD community. We are truly a community of men and women seeking support for dealing with issues concerning loved ones. I am very sorry to hear about your son but please remember that every story doesn't have to end this way. We all have the hope that someday our children (even adult children) will be healed.

Sometimes we have to let go and let God and hope that our loved one comes out whole on the other side. Sometimes it doesn't happen but no one wants to give up on that hope. Please remember that when you post.

It would help us get to know you and your story if you added a signature like mine below. You can do that by going to "setting" at the top of the page and then go to my profile on the left side of the page to add your signature.

Again, welcome to the CD board.

~Kathy

 

[Signorina]

You did the right thing. Your son is sleeping somewhere safe tonight and he IS safe tonight (and was safe last night.) And sometimes that's got to be enough.
We want to get them to a safe place forever... We can't do that. We want it, we pray for it, we try to will it...and we get so frustrated and we get so tired of being worried all the time.
Sometimes knowing they're safe and sound for a night or two is a welcome break we need to relish for the moment.

 

[susiestar]

Pitt, I am so sorry your planned getaway was ruined by your son's actions/drama. You did the right thing by calling the cops. I know your wife now thinks if you had just left it all alone and not called them, then it wouldn't be such a big mess. It would be a different mess, and you both might be wondering right now if things would be different and your son would be alive if you had just made that call.

Your son chose to be admitted. HE ran from the cops, you didn't make him. HE told the cops he had suicidal thoughts, not you. CLEARLY he is capable of telling lies - hasn't he told them to you and your wife? If he didn't want to be in a hospital he could have lied to the cops. Then they would have left him alone or dealt with charges for whatever was going on. His admission is based on HIS behavior and choices.

Lots of parents have come here frustrated because they couldn't get a young adult admitted for suicidal threats because the young adult lied and told the cops or the staff of the psychiatric hospital that they were not suicidal. It is common knowledge that if you don't want to get held for a 72 hr hold, you don't tell cops/ER staff that you want to kill yourself. My oldest and I have spoken about this and he says that the info is all over the internet and high schools/colleges.

You did what you had to do. If you son had gone ahead and hurt himself, it wouldn't be just you and your wife who were upset, your daughter would have blamed herself because in her mind, SHE was in charge of the house and if he misbehaved it was her "job" to let you know that he was breaking the arrangement you made iwth him. If NOTHING else happens because you called the police, you took the burden of the decision off of your daughter. in my opinion that alone makes it the right decision.

Don't take his words as how he will feel forever. My son HATED me for quite a while because I was the one who did the doctor and therapy appts, and I was the one who put him into the psychiatric hospital, although his father supported me at every step. Now my son is glad I did it. NOT that we agree whether it was needed or not, but he sees it as his dad and I doing the best we could at the time and keeping his sibling safe from his rages.

I don't have much else to add, but I have been in the shoes your daughter was in, and you did the right thing by calliing and having the cops make the decision to put him into the psychiatric hospital rather than to leave it up to her. IF your son didn't want to be there, then he shouldn't have said he wanted to kill himself. Period.

 

[PittDoraj]

Update: I went to see my son yesterday. He blames me for his being in the psychiatric ward. He says all he was doing was looking for a place to sleep. I explained the reason he is there is 1) he wrote "I've chosen to die" and 2) he did not respond to phone calls or texts. That left me no other option. He told me he through his phone away because he didn't want to be bothered. The police told me he threw it in a sewer drain.

He wants nothing to do with us. He said that I should not bother to come back to visit - that he will not see me, or my wife or daughter. Ever since his last psychiatric ward stay he said he could not go back to the ward. So he sees this as me sending him back to the one place he couldn't go back to. I can only hope this anger will pass.

In the meantime I will contact his therapist to fill him in. My wife and I have been looking at apartments and jobs that we could show my son. Our plan is to show him his options. Other than that, we don't know what else we can do. This is the real frustrating part.

As many of you have said he is safe and that is the most important thing.

(I have tried to fill out the signature properly - please let me know if I made a mistake. Thank you.)

 

[PittDoraj]

Further Update: my son called this morning from the hospital. He asked if I could come see him - of course I will but can't until this evening due to visiting hours. He then told me he has a hearing tomorrow and 1) wants to know what we told the police and 2) can he stay at our house for a few days. I know that he is just trying to set things up so he can get out of the hospital. I told him that we told the police exactly what I told him yesterday - we told them my son had a history of suicide attempts and what his text said. That's the easy part. Regarding staying here I told him I would discuss with my wife. Having him come here to stay for a few days - this seems like we would be enabling him. I'm sure the administrator of the hearing wants to know he has a place to stay. But I'm not sure putting him right on the street is the right thing. So the other option is to make his staying here contingent on his agreeing to go into a program. I am sure he won't agree to an in-patient program.

How do you find the strength to turn your child away in this kind of situation?

 

[rejectedmom]

this is a hard one. On one hand he said he didn't want anything to do with you but the minute he needs something he calls. He is manipulating now question there. On the other hand he does need to get to court and will need a place to stay. Putting him in a hotel is expensive and filled with possible downfalls. Keeping him at home with you is a stressfull situation with it's own set of difficulties.

That said, I think I might be inclined to let him stay home but only for the minimum time that is necessary to meet his court obligations. Then tell him it is either inpatient or a shelter. I too would have a hard time putting someone out who might be suicidal. He says it was not a real attempt but you really can never be sure. Honestly, whatever you choose to do or not to do is reasonable under the circumstances.

 

[Kathy813]

When my daughter did the same thing, I was told a social worker would help find her a place to go. Is there someone there at the hospital that can help him find a temporary place to go?

 

[toughlovin]

Ok what is the hearing for toorrow? Is it a hearing for a criminal case or is it hearing the hospital is having to commit him involuntarily for longer? I think you need to understand what the hearing is. Also the hospital should be figuring out his discharge plan.... so my recommendation is to talk to the hospital social worker. Now he/she may not talk to you if your son did not give permssion... in which case I would tell her that he absolutely cannot come home without your having more information and some kind of family meeting. Thats as a minimum. Your son may be telling her he can go home and is hoping you will endorse that. My feeling is don't do that without a whole lot more info.

If the hospital is looking to committ him involuntarily for longer then my guess is they have some real concerns about his safety... you need to know and understand that as well.

Right now be true to yourself, wife and daughter about what you can handle. Clearly if your son is suicidal that is a lot to handle....Think about what feels right to you. Your son will do what he can to manipulate you to get what he wants. I am sure he has done this before (I say this from my own experience) and he will do this again. It helps to learn to recognize the manipulation.

TL

 

[PittDoraj]

Well, the hearing seems to be off. The hearing is to determine if he will be kept in the hospital or released. Apparently the doctor petitioned for a 10 day period but it sounds as if my son has stipulated that he will stay for 5 to avoid the hearing.

My wife and I went to visit him this evening.He claims the police are lying and that he never said he felt suicidal. He said he told them he was depressed because he didn't have a place to sleep. (this is why he wants to avoid the hearing, he says no one would believe him over the police). He is angry and blaming us, along with everyone else, for his being there. I pointed this out to him and he told me he blames himself but won't tell me that because I will say "you really don't mean it". He also said he has no intention of stopping his drinking, that he doesn't have a problem, and that he would do everything again. I don't ever remember seeing him this angry. Perhaps he is being brutally honest. I told him we will not allow him to come back home and drink or smoke pot. His response was that he would just go out and live his life the way he wants "for as long as he can".

 

[rejectedmom]

I am sorry it has come to this. Unfortunatly there is little you can do at this point. If the doctors.do not feel they can keep him against his will, then he will be able to leave. I am sorry to say this but the anger part sounds like drugs. My son was angry defiant and abusive when he was using Pot and alcohol together worse when he experimented with crack. If you have given the ultimatium you must follow through or this will go on indefinately. If he calls you or texts with a suicide threat call the police each and every time. Do not second guess yourself. He needs to learn if he plays that card he will go to the hospital. Once again I am so sorry for your pain and worry. It isn't easy having a MI child who won't help themself.

 

[pinevalley]

It sounds like your son is in total denial about what the drinking and pot is doing to his life. Since you have made the decision that you will not allow him to come back home and drink or smoke pot, now you and your wife have to have the strength to stick with this decision. We did the exact same thing with our 18 year old when he was smoking the synthetic weed every day. We gave him a choice of going to rehab or not living in our house, and he chose to live on the streets. Our difficult child even told us that if we forced him to go to rehab he would probably kill himself. That was scary to hear, but he did not want to change his life and the drug use, and he was saying anything to get out of rehab. Anyway, difficult child was living on the streets for only one week, but he was arrested two times when he was not at home and desperate for money. This was a terribly scary time for me, not knowing where he was or if he was safe. He did not have a cell phone, and he was not even going to school at all. I would spend hours driving around to parks and fast food places, trying to see if he was OK. My difficult child was not ready to admit that he had a problem with drugs until he was arrested and spent one night in jail. It took an arrest and the threat of going to prison for difficult child to agree to rehab.

Have you looked into any treatment programs for your son, so that you have a place he could go for treatment sometime in the future? You are doing the right thing for your son by not making it easy for him to live at home and still do drugs. Let's hope that he will soon realize that his life is not working right now with all the drinking and smoking pot, and he will realize that he needs help.

 

[Fran]

I don't think you should look for an apartment for him. He will not be happy with it and will ruin your credit and your reputation by being irresponsible. He has to have a plan. He has to be invested in it. You doing it for him will not work. He is too oppositional at this point.
Every time he tells you what you have done wrong, ask him what his suggestions are to improve the situation. If he has a better suggestion then you are open to listening. You can not fix him. You are just trying to get him to the point of him wanting to fix himself. Offer alternatives and keep them simple.
The rules of the house are :no substance use, no theft, no lying. The consequence is out on his own and the locks changed or calling the police(illegal substance/theft). Lock up in a safe all your important and valuable items. I cannot tell you how many stories of difficult child's stealing wedding rings, family heirlooms and other irreplaceable items for their own gratification, that have been posted on this site. Try not to negotiate too much because they read that as indecision and weakness. You may even have to stop answering the phone.

It seems that you are trying to make sense of what your son says he needs. He has no idea what he needs, wants or can do. He appears to be unwilling to help himself at this point. He has to get sober as some of the other members have said and you need to get to a family support group like Alanon so you can learn how to parent a difficult child.
He is sabotaging himself every way possible so he doesn't have to show his weaknesses isn't he? He is making you and your family look like the bad guys so he can avoid guilt or having to answer for himself.
He can't use the house like a revolving door flop house. He is part of the family or he is not. Being gone one night and returning the next is too chaotic and nothing is learned by you allowing it to go on.
He will choose and that is what will be. Once he is out, he can't come back unless...... he says "sorry, I messed up and I want to change. This is the plan I want to try".
You can bet that at this stage, he will not agree to anything you suggest.

No guilt on your part about not throwing away 30.00 that he blames you for until he actually earns 30.00 and knows what that means. He tries to really guilt you into thinking you aren't doing enough or you don't care. I call this deflection. "A good offense is a good defense". If you are working hard to defend your choices then you aren't focusing on what he did to cause all this chaos.
I hope you realize you are a good and caring parent and you don't deserve his spiteful behavior. He is in a bad state and is sick. He has to work harder at making his life better than you do. He isn't doing anything but complaining while you do all the work. Take a step back and try to disengage a bit. Eventually, you will have a plan and it will make it easier to know what to do and when to do it but going to Alanon meetings will help you and your wife get to that plan.

 

[PittDoraj]

Thank you all for your continued advise and support. My son called this morning to apologize for his actions last night. The hospital called to say he stipulated to doctor recommendation, which I have been told will likely mean discharge tomorrow since my son has given no indication that he is a threat to himself while at the hospital.

We know this means we are right back at the start of the cycle. I plan to lay out a clear set of rules for the house (no drinking, smoking pot, lying, stealing) or he will have to leave. In the meantime we will help him find a place (but will not pay or sign for anything), he will not have access to his car (that we pay for), and we will help him find a job. His therapist is going to see him the day after tomorrow and suggest a 3 day per week out patient dual diagnosis program and a 1 day per week one-on-one session. My wife and I are looking into a support group for us to attend. Our experience has been that our son will not follow through with the group sessions or anything that deals with the substance issues. I think all we can do is try and the first time he fails on the rules we need to follow through with making him leave, again. The strength I need is not letting him back in the house until he has taken action on his own.

 

[Nancy]

So you have a plan, good. I fear that he called to apologize because he knows he's getting out tomorrow and needs a place to go. So stick to your plan because you know an addict is lying when their lips are moving. I don't want to be pessimisitic but what Fran said is right. You need to make it clear to him that you will help him as long as he will willing to help himself, but that you will not tolerate his previous behavior in your home, period!

We had to ask our difficult child to leave our house when it became clear she was not following her recovery plan. It was not easy or pleasant and resulted in a few months of freefalling into alcohol/drug use but in the end she reached out for help. We stood firm and would not let her back in our home, but did help her in her recovery effort elsewhere.

Your son will not acknowledge he has a substance abuse problem and until he does nothing will change.

Nancy

 

[pinevalley]

I'm glad that you have a plan for moving forward with your son. Just getting the plan started with your son is a big step in the right direction. It is probably a good idea to put everything that you have outlined in writing for your son to read, including the consequences that will happen if he does not follow the rules. I know that my son is an expert at manipulation, and we had to put everything in writing so he could not twist our words to his benefit. It will not be easy to help your son through all his problems, but I hope that you and your wife are able to work together as a team. Sending you good thoughts for lots of strength in the days ahead. Hugs....

 

[Star*]

Dear Pit,

Hi, and Oh boy! You asked how you find the strength to deal with these kids? I would ask at what point do you (as a parent, adult) choose to stop making all the "deals" yours? The situation your son is in currently is one that he has created all on his own, by his own hands - and now there are a few consequences and it's making him squirm isn't it? It's like HOLY SNOT - my parents weren't kidding about the suicide attempt bologna I pulled because look where they put me - I'm not in control over my life anymore - Doctors, nurses, therapists and a psychiatric ward - ARE.

SO I gather he's not a dumb boy - he's already in a psychiatric ward and looking to set up a place to stay. Well it is cold out - you said something about 20 degrees earlier....well how cold does he think a prison cell in (wherever you live) is going to be? I mean he's stealing credit cards and charging "joy and comfort items" to YOUR tab. Gosh if it hadn't been YOU he stole that from - do you think someone elses Mom and Dad would have been so lenient? Nope - He'd be charged, booked, and in jail awaiting trial in a cold jail cell without all his comfort items - a nice warm bed, food, clothes, company of decent people - freedoms that involve and I'm not surprised - but (a warden does not sleep on the couch to make sure someone doesn't get out) you're wife has to be 1/2 nuts at this point. Trying reason and logic anywhere near your sons behavior are ridiculous. The kid needs a reality wake up call. - Already you've put your foot down twice and GOLLLYYYYY ----he did call after he said he wouldn't. Imagine that. He NEEDED YOU.

Personally? I had all I could take a few years ago. We said GET OUT, and we meant it. Call it harsh, call it uncaring - and I'll tell you it was probably the most caring thing I ever did for him. I allowed my son to grow up. I showed him that if he didn't like our rules, and out home? Then he could just as well GET OUT - and go get all the things he wanted on his own. He could stay out as late as he wanted. He could get just as toasted as he wanted. He could be as unemployed as he wanted, and in that? Be as hungry, unclean, unhoused and unhelped - JUST LIKE HE WANTED.

Did I worry that things would backfire and he'd end up killing himself? In jail, or prison? Never call me again? End up dead? Yup. Every.SINGLE.day. He chose to go live near his biofather - the psychopath (no really he is) and well - he found out quickly that life there was not great. It wasn't even a roof over his head, unless a bridge or picnic table in the park counts, food in his belly - unless you call dumpster diving eating, Laying in bed until the middle of the afternoon while I went to work two jobs - unless you call riding around all night with his buddies doing whatever - and coming in when he wanted - EMPLOYMENT. I mean he said he looked for a job but with all his PROBLEMS - he just couldn't find a job. GOSH ya think? Royal PITA attitude and the world OWES me a kiss logic.

SO we let him have everything he wanted an more. I mean you can NOT have it both ways - not being an adult - and that means - being gainfully employed - and well if you do drugs and drink? Kinda hard to pass a drug test - so you'll probably couch surf with "FRIENDS" until that gets old for them - because THEY DO get up and go to work to pay their bills and how unrealistic it is for THEM to pay for the increase in electric, water, gas, phone - and food when it's NOT their relative - belive me - there's always A place for them to go - not usually the SAME place because the kids that are working get tired of the unemployed leech friend NOT having a job, and make suggestions they find a host - as a parasite he wouldn't be popular.

Then you have that nagging worry about "Well he'll steal and go to jail." Well yes.......that's society. You steal - You go to jail. In what other alternative world do people steal $1000.00 from you and you say "Oh well - that's just how it is." Not likely. And if you do? Then how long do you think it is before the same person comes back and does it again? You allowed it the first time - and the pain in the rear is making sure that EVERY single receipt, every single time you draw out that card to make an on line purchase - every time you go to sleep - he's not back DOING IT AGAIN. I mean - "Im sorry I won't." Doesn't pay me back for the $1000.00 that was stolen from me - I want it replaced or for you to WORK it off......not continue to sneak out of my house and cause me endless nights of unrest and frustration. That's just crazy. Isn't it? No, I'm asking?

So if this person were NOT your son---------and had done these things to your home, your wife, your daughter....YOU? Do you think you'd invite him BACK in the house to honeymoon and then be himself? I think he threw the cell down the sewer because it had his dealers numbers on it and he thought the cops would find them.......not so cool - easier to toss an expensive cell and get Mom and Dad to buy me a new one - I mean they WILL......they worry about me, where I am, who I'm with - DO I HAVE A RIDE? (wraps imaginary string around finger) He's so immature - I say if you want to know how to survive this?

Learn to detach. The truth of it all is - You have to think about HOW long you want to have the job of being his constant conscience. It's an exhausting, unrewarding job. There are some cases in which the parents throw the child out - and say "GO DO IT YOUR WAY SINATRA." and the kid matures, gets himself together and life is great. There are other cases in which they kid goes his own way - actually SEES how good he had it, and still does dumb things. The truth of the matter is at what point do you STOP living vicariously through him to make sure he's always going to make proper choices? I'm not sure - he's your kid so that's your choice, but to drag yourself down year after year after year - HOPING he wants the same things you do? Sobriety, honesty, appreciation for what's given? Probably aren't going to happen if he doesn't have it a little less cushy than he does now......and by the way - if he starts working to support himself, the rent, the electric, a car, his insurance, gas, food - he may just see that all the freedoms he so blatently craves? ALSO come with a price, and maybe he'll appreciate something somewhere and for that? I'm glad our son went off to live his life at 19.

He's 21 now, and well - he's still NOT making great decisions constantly - but the ones that he's gotten himself into? Those choices were his, and now so are the consequences. Maybe he does need treatment? But you know what? Whether he can understand it or not? I think the only way to give him a reality jerk - is to allow him to see what happens when he's on his own. Mental health provides care to anyone indigent for free. There are plenty of sober houses where you live, and drug treatment for a young man SEEKING it on his own to most facilities would be MORE of a showing that he wants to change than putting him somehere he's only going for now so he can play the cushy game - If I go here ------Mom and dad will LET ME------(fill in the blank) when I'm out - I can do this standing on my ear.

I tell people this not because I'm hard, or cold. My ex is a monster and after 15 years of absence? When my son sought him out? He introduced him to his crack smoking, drug banging, doper friends - whom he took better care of than his OWN son - because they had dope. He also tried to kill my son with a ball bat, and after he had gone to jail for selling dope (leme think - 8000 pills) My son took over the house, fixed it - and when the Dad got out? He threw the room mates that were paying rent OUT, threw their stuff out......and moved his druggie buddies in and totally ruined the house, furniture, -----it was awful. WOrds don't do it justice and I'm rarely at a loss for words.

Whatever you do choose to do - at this stage of the game? I'd do it for peace in my life. If having him OUT of the house would give YOU, your daughter and wife peace? I'd be telling him to talk to his therapist and counselors in the psychiatric ward about a 1/2 way house - If he knows NOW he isnt' coming home? It may give him time to plan a life that he can respect himself for, because he will turn to you some day and say "I got myself sober, I got myself employed, I got myself a place to live." Not "My parents forced me to go to rehab, I still don't have a job, and I'm homeless." And even if he does say the latter? And isn't better for it? Then again how much time and frustration did you invite to your door - again?

The choice isn't easy - the conequences just doubled in value because now it's an adult game - life. It was so much easier when you did tell them what to do and 1/2 the time they did it. I'm over begging....I love my son with all my heart, but his choices hurt my heart too much because the consequences that go with his poor decisions are big ones now. The only benefit at this point is that I don't have that arguing, fighting, bickering and begging and crying in my home 24.7 - doesn't mean he's not still a part of my thoughts, nor does it mean what pains he goes through now don't affect me - because they do. It's just a lot easier to think level headed without him in my home, causing conflict. At least 1/2 the time I can hope that he's trying to get himself a life, and not end up a drug addict, thug, in jail or dead. Those choices would also be a reality if he were living here. I just chose not to deal wtih them any longer in my face.


Hope something in this rambling makes sense to you - it's just a different side we were forced into because our reality was me having another stroke or possibly heart attack, loosing my job, and being homeless because of his mistakes. If he actually gets a consequence from the adult world? Maybe he won't do it again. It's not so cushy out in the jungle.


Sorry for your hurt - I know it's great. We all do. been there done that and made a choice NOT to been there done that anymore.

Star

 

[PittDoraj]

Well, we met with doctor and case worker at the hospital yesterday. Basically we had a pretty open discussion with our son and he came home. We told him, with the doctor, that there is zero tolerance and that any stealing, drugs, or drinking will mean he must leave the house and cannot return.

The doctor at the hospital, along with his psychiatrist, changed his medication to Wellbutrin, 300mg a day. He is also seeing his therapist today in order to setup a dual diagnosis IOP. Of course we are hopeful something changes but honestly, we are not optimistic. I notice he is angry and seems very aggitated. I don't know if that is from the medication or a continued escalation of his reaction to the events of the last two weeks.