Rude, disrespectful, WHY WHY WHY did I agree to this?

[PennyFromTheBlock]

Two months. Month one, almost down.

WHY WHY WHY did I allow this boy to come and stay with me? Why didn't I listen to my gut instinct tell me NO.

There's not one particular thing that has happened, and I know why I let him come here- because he has his baby several nights a week and he needs a safe place for his baby to stay.

But he is the most pompous, ungrateful, disrespectful person I know.

I DO NOT LIKE MY SON. I DO NOT LIKE MY SON. I DO NOT LIKE MY SON.

Just this quick- in almost four weeks, I'm at a place - the same place - I was in before 2/2014. I'm at a point where I could cry on a dime. I DIDN'T DO THAT WHEN HE WASN'T LIVING IN MY SPACE. I don't want to come home.

I'm actually FURTHER helping his ungrateful ass this week because his alternator is out and I'm taking him to work in the mornings (and his sister picks him up)- for the last two days our ride turns into an argument - because ANYTHING I say- in response to ANYTHING he says is perceived as judgemental, or me telling him something 'like he's a little kid'. Like, from a normal conversation- it turns on a dime. This morning, we are going towards his job- he's scrolling facebook on his phone. chuckle....mom, look at this- at a light he shows me this stupid video of kids of about 13/14 years old carrying on, cussing, etc (now, I'm no angel and can talk crazy in a heartbeat)- I commented that THAT is sad- kids, who are getting attention for that behavior - and why would he show me this? He should know that I wouldn't find that amusing or funny.

Then, I'm uptight, I don't like anything he says or shows me, I'm always BLAH BLAH BLAH. So finally (thanks to y'all) I just shut up. Then I was accused of "oh, so now you aren't going to talk to me? See, you are as childish as the kids on that video- why do you even care about those kids on the video"- which means he missed the point COMPLETELY.

Why why WHY do I even allow this? I swear on everything, if not for that baby in my car I would have pulled over and put his selfish disrespectful self out of my car and I would have gone on to work.

I knew this would happen. I knew. He is who he is. He is not going to change. His tempermant had improved in many ways. I've SEEN HIM WITH MY OWN TWO EYES have a discussion with the baby's mom that was logical, calm, and make sense. I KNOW HE CAN DO IT.

But with me? No.

I hate I have done this to myself. HATE IT.

 

[TheWalrus]

I hate this for you. I feel the same - I would be a basket case if mine were here. It is awful that she is couch surfing and lying for sympathy after she is turned out, but I gave her tools to go other places. She chooses not to.

You have to preserve yourself. It may be possible that he triggers off of you. I am a huge trigger for mine and anything I say or do (or don't say or do) can become the catalyst for fights, arguments, guilt trips, screaming, threats...you name it. I have accepted we cannot coincide in the same house.

I don't know what your options are or what boundaries you have set, but you know what you can and cannot live with. Prayers that you can change the circumstances for your own well-being.

 

[New Leaf]

UGH. Just UGH. I am in the same boat Penny. These kids are riding a wave of entitlement.

It is amazing to me, the things they say and do. No filter, no respect. No appreciation, because to our d cs, we are supposed to sacrifice everything for them. Including our sanity.....
Stay strong and firm on your deadline.
One more month......
Hang in there.....
(((Hugs)))
leafy

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Penny

There are several threads going on right now. THIS MINUTE. The same as yours. Where we are going nuts. Self-destructing. Attacking ourselves. Because why?

Because we opened the door to our kids or want to. Or we feel like absolutely horrible mothers and people because we had the strength to refuse. Because eash of us knew it was the wrong thing to do for us and for them.

They tell us. They may think it. They may really feel like OH LIFE WOULD BE SO BEAUTIFUL and wonderful for me. If she would only give me a chance. Fill in the blank here: ___ ___
___ or ___ and___, too. With the applicable items: car, rent money, bail, or moving home. Or care for my baby. Or drive me to work. Pay an attorney.

And because she won't my life is sh-t. Because of her. Because she kicked me out (2 years ago, 4 years ago, 15 years ago. Take your choice.) That is the root of all evil.

What we did or did not do for them. We caused it.

Or if we blow up. (Can't take anymore.) We are abusive. Mean. Impossible. Hysterical. Completely unhinged.

Any boundary we set is the cause of their distress. Or if we blow up or suffer or withdraw because we do not set boundaries, it is our problem too.

The thing is this. This is the real truth. The boundaries help your son. He did better when you set a limit and held to it. He can conduct himself in a reasonably mature way. He will have to step up if you do not do it for him. He knows that. When we do step in and help them they secretly hate us for that, because they sense that it is taking away their need to be mature and to grow.

They want us to set limits. They need us to set limits. We need to set limits. We must. This grand baby you are protecting is his child. That is the reality. Sooner or later he will have to carry the responsibility. You know this.

You are doing fantastic. A month more. You can do it. You will do it. You set a time limit. Good for you. As Cedar says: You are doing what you must so that you can look at yourself in the mirror.

Keep posting. It really helps. Every day. Every time you have a spare minute. We are here for you. We understand. We are in the same space. In any given minute, we can backslide. They show up at our door. They call. And it starts over.

They are not bad kids. They are slow learners, perhaps. Somewhere inside they know how to do this. They try to blame us and hold us responsible because it works. For a few minutes, a day or two. We just have to work very hard to not let them work us. Because it backfires on them. And we betray ourselves too.

Check out some of the other threads and you will find yourself there.

You are doing great.

COPA

 

[SuZir]

We did let them back in, because it felt like the best course of action. Because we did think, or still think, that we could tough it out despite the obnoxiousness and all the inconvenience. I also get it why they are like that and that conversation in car could had easily happened in mine. Mine have been back home close to two months now and we will allow him to stay at least till fall if we need to.

Our relationship with them is carved on the stone. While they do learn and develop new ways to communicate and behave, they try them first to newer people in their life and strangers. With parents, the roles and patterns from puberty and teen years stuck. It's not even kids with problems. Many of classmates and friends of my oldest are upstanding young people, who are starting to take great responsibility of things out there, still many of them are stuck to surly teen behaviour and communication patterns with their parents. With them it will surely ease with time, with our troubled kids it is likely to take more time and with some, it may unfortunately never change.

This is not an advice, just something I find helpful in my, somewhat similar situation with disruptive 22-year-old in my home: I keep reminding myself that I made a decision to take him in as an informed, competent person. I knew how he is and how this would be. I knew that at times having him here would make me miserable. I chose to have him here, because I knew I could take that inconvenience. It's not fun, but some things in life and love are not. My choice, my consequences and it is not someone else's fault, not even my obnoxious kid's.

 

[wakeupcall]

All our DCs act this way.......yet we love them so.........

 

[pasajes4]

A man walking home on a freezing cold day came across a snake in the middle of the road. The snake was in bad shape . The man decided to take the snake home and nurse it back to health. Everyday the man put the snake in front of the fire, hand fed him, cuddled with him, and the snake got better everyday. One day the man came home and the snake was at the door to greet him as usual. When the man put out his hand to pet him, the snake bit him. As the man lay dying of the snake bite, he asked the snake why he had done that after the good, loving care he had received. The snake replied, " Well, you knew I was a snake when you took me in." This would be our D" C children. We try to help. They bite our hand. WE should have expected it.

 

[AppleCori]

A man walking home on a freezing cold day came across a snake in the middle of the road. The snake was in bad shape . The man decided to take the snake home and nurse it back to health. Everyday the man put the snake in front of the fire, hand fed him, cuddled with him, and the snake got better everyday. One day the man came home and the snake was at the door to greet him as usual. When the man put out his hand to pet him, the snake bit him. As the man lay dying of the snake bite, he asked the snake why he had done that after the good, loving care he had received. The snake replied, " Well, you knew I was a snake when you took me in." This would be our D" C children. We try to help. They bite our hand. WE should have expected it.

This is a song, too!

It's called The Snake.

I found it on Youtube, one remake by Al Wilson, one by Oscar Brown Jr.

Thanks for the reminder!

 

[Jabberwockey]

I've SEEN HIM WITH MY OWN TWO EYES have a discussion with the baby's mom that was logical, calm, and make sense. I KNOW HE CAN DO IT.

But with me? No.

Our son does this as well. I was on the way back from goodwill having picked up some dishes for him for his apartment. He was ranting at me because we wouldn't give his loser friend a ride across town so he could spend the night with our son. I was basically ignoring him. His phone rang and the switch flipped. "Hey Dude! Whats up?" blah blah blah. He had a pleasant and reasonable conversation with the person, hung up, and went RIGHT back to ranting at me. For some reason, our Difficult Child's feel like its ok to behave like this in front of us because its us. I don't allow it any more and my son knows it. My advice? First off, keep your responses simple. He shows you a stupid video that he KNOWS you wont like, simply say "That's nice.". If he starts to rant, pull over and kick his ass out of the car and make him walk the rest of the way to work. If the child is still in the car, take them to the babysitter and go to work. My son, for some idiotic reason, wanted to talk to me all the time about the legalization of marijuana. This is a subject that he knows I could give a damn less about. I personally don't see the reason to legalize it for other than medicinal purposes but wont get upset if it happens. I think that basically, he is trying to justify his lifestyle to me and maybe that's what yours is trying to do with you when he shows video's of out of control kids. Kind of a "Look Mom! Im not the only one so its ok!" kind of thing.

 

[A dad]

Just ignore him my youngest was always rambling about all things I did not care about of course he was young and a child before he stopped communicating with me when he saw I did listened and that was not a good thing at that time but yeah you child is a adult you do not need to form him anymore just think focus to other things until what he says becomes a background noise. I managed that but I should not have managed that when he was a child but yeah its possible.
If they are like my son they will stop rambling after they see you do not care. Again I strongly recommend to do this only on adult Difficult Child.

 

[LostSoul1]

Same goes with me! My son is unable to have a calm, logical discussion with me. I too regretted the decision to let him back home with me. YET he is able to be calm and rational with this girl he met a short while ago and other family members/strangers etc. I asked him whether he treats his friend with the same disrespect he does me? He looked at me in shock! and said 'not at all I treat her like a QUEEN'!.

Although my son has various mental illness issues, alot of his disrespect is due to BAD BEHAVIOR - which he DOES HAVE CONTROL OVER. I have seen he can be truly polite and charming - BUT NOT WITH ME.

I too am a trigger to my son - just flys off the handle and treats me like crap! He was removed from my house Friday after a particularly bad evening (you can read my thread). I am trying to practice detachment and allow him to suffer the consequences of his actions.

 

[Tanya M]

he's scrolling facebook on his phone. chuckle....mom, look at this- at a light he shows me this stupid video of kids of about 13/14 years old carrying on, cussing, etc (now, I'm no angel and can talk crazy in a heartbeat)- I commented that THAT is sad- kids, who are getting attention for that behavior - and why would he show me this? He should know that I wouldn't find that amusing or funny.

Oh Penny, I have been there so many time with my son. I truly believe in moments like this they set us up. I have learned over time it doesn't matter our response, they will turn it around on us. When I find myself in this situation I keep my response very simple and benign. I usually say something like "that's interesting" whether I think it is or not. Of course sometimes no matter what we say they just want to argue, debate or belittle us.

Then, I'm uptight, I don't like anything he says or shows me, I'm always BLAH BLAH BLAH. So finally (thanks to y'all) I just shut up. Then I was accused of "oh, so now you aren't going to talk to me? See, you are as childish as the kids on that video- why do you even care about those kids on the video"- which means he missed the point COMPLETELY.

Yup, he totally set you up.

knew this would happen. I knew. He is who he is. He is not going to change. His tempermant had improved in many ways. I've SEEN HIM WITH MY OWN TWO EYES have a discussion with the baby's mom that was logical, calm, and make sense. I KNOW HE CAN DO IT.

Well your heart was in the right place. You wanted to help him. I've been there and so have others. Don't be hard on yourself, just chalk it up to lesson learned. I truly have lost count of how many "second chances" I gave my son only to have him trample all over me and my heart.

A man walking home on a freezing cold day came across a snake in the middle of the road. The snake was in bad shape . The man decided to take the snake home and nurse it back to health. Everyday the man put the snake in front of the fire, hand fed him, cuddled with him, and the snake got better everyday. One day the man came home and the snake was at the door to greet him as usual. When the man put out his hand to pet him, the snake bit him. As the man lay dying of the snake bite, he asked the snake why he had done that after the good, loving care he had received. The snake replied, " Well, you knew I was a snake when you took me in." This would be our D" C children. We try to help. They bite our hand. WE should have expected it.

@pasajes4 , I haven't heard this in a long time but oh how true it is when it comes to our d_cs.

Hang in there Penny, you have one more month to go. Remember, YOU are a WARRIOR parent. You will get through this and you will once again have peace in your home.

 

[Albatross]

Sorry, Penny. They can be infuriating in conversation. The inside of my cheek gets sore. You were so smart to set a time limit. Hang in there!

 

[PennyFromTheBlock]

Thank you so much for all of your replies I chose this evening to just stay in my room with the door shut it seems as though my son has out reached my daughter to find out what is wrong. She told me she told him that while it's OK to have a difference of opinion you don't have to be disrespectful. Sigh.

 

[PennyFromTheBlock]

Update: Well, we made it a month. And that's it. He's leaving.

It always starts over something small, you know? His problem, as it's always been is to yell and scream and accuse and be aggressive. Straw that did it? He slammed my backdoor into the wall and now there's a perfect hole in that wall. In a rental. My rental. That my lease agreement comes up for in March.

Nice.

That was it. Because he is so unable to control his anger- he gets so out of control and yells and threatens and does the most.

So, he has to leave.

I don't know where he's going.

His sister was here and was actually able to get him to listen to her and calm down (but the damage had been done).

I'm not going to live this way in my home.

I tried. I tried to help. I tried to give benefit of the doubt.

/sigh.

Why do they do this? Why can they not see?

 

[New Leaf]

I tried. I tried to help. I tried to give benefit of the doubt.
/sigh.
Why do they do this? Why can they not see?

Oh Penny, I am so sorry. You did try, many, many times.
It doesn't make it any easier.
I am sorry for the heartache and frustration of it all.
The why's are million dollar questions. Our d cs brains are different. They grab ahold of anything they can and make their problems everyone else's fault. No accountability. None, zero, zilch.
If we all thought this way, OMG, what a world it would be.
Your son is young, 22.
Hopefully, he will learn from the consequences of his actions.
This does not mean you have to throw away your life waiting for that to happen.

Are you able to arrange for visits with your grandson? I know he is the driving factor for allowing your boy to live with you, but maybe you could schedule your own visits?

This is all so hard. I am thinking of you and hoping for a workable solution for you and the baby.

Hoping your son gets it as well. For me, I know my two can't live with me, they make a hard situation virtually impossible. UGH.
How sad for us.
Take care.
(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[PennyFromTheBlock]

I do owe you all a big kudos- because through reading here and learning- I'm learning ways to show strength. At one point, he started asking why I had chosen to not speak to him the last few days- and I started to explain MY reasoning (which was, I was trying to help you by allowing you to stay here- and I found that you purposely found reasons to ignite a problem - the video - and then invariably would turn things on me, take my words out of context, etc- so I decided that rather than live in turmoil with a debate all the time about minutia, I chose to just be silent, and it was my RIGHT to do that) - well, as they tend to do, he starts TELLING me how I'm supposed to feel. I stopped- I told him this was my home, I'm a grown woman, and not him or anyone else can tell me how to FEEL inside. And that THIS was the problem. Instead of LISTENING and taking some accountability- he did this. And I walked away- indicating to him that I was DONE discussing it- because I do NOT have to JUSTIFY how I FEEL in my OWN HOME.

I thank you all for that. 2 years ago I would have cried and been trying to make HIM feel better.

Not saying I didn't cry, because I did. I told him he would cut off his nose to spite his face. To "prove" a point that wasn't going to help him later.

Thank you New Leaf for your kind words. I wish one of y'all were close to me to give me a hug! You know how sometimes you just need a hug?

As far as the baby- My son will need me before I need him. He runs off at the mouth about that, but he knows what's good for him where the baby is concerned. If not, I've made it a POINT to maintain my emotions/feelings about the baby's mother - she will be my portal to the baby if my son isn't.

 

[Albatross]

I'm so sorry, Penny.

It always starts over something small, you know? His problem, as it's always been is to yell and scream and accuse and be aggressive. Straw that did it? He slammed my backdoor into the wall and now there's a perfect hole in that wall. In a rental. My rental. That my lease agreement comes up for in March.

A hole in the wall. A small thing. It happens. Like the rum my son helped himself to, when he was living with us. It was only a $20 bottle of rum. It's been sitting there for years. We don't even drink rum.

That was it. Because he is so unable to control his anger- he gets so out of control and yells and threatens and does the most.

And we have been here so many times before. So it's not a small thing. It's a large thing, and we know it because we've seen it so many times before.

For my son, it was the fact that he would search obscure corners of my house for the rum I don't care about, and mock me because I didn't hide it well enough. For your son, it was that he would slam a door open, knowing that he was under your roof because you had extended some grace despite his track record.

Many of those other times we told ourselves it was *just* a door opened too far, *just* a $20 bottle of rum...but it isn't. It's a symptom of a big thing. In our house. From our adult children. To whom we have extended hospitality, even though they did not have it coming.

And we don't have to try to parse it or justify it or cogitate it anymore. It is a symptom of a VERY BIG DEAL...because we've seen it so many times before.

I don't see how it could have come out any other way, Penny. This time it was so ironclad and foolproof...and yet it still ended badly.

I think no matter how the offer is extended, there is an expectation there...in my case that he would not steal from us, in Copa's case that he would help out, in your case that he would be civil...these are not unreasonable expectations. In any other setting, we wouldn't even have to discuss them.

But it seems with our offspring, as soon as we lay out an expectation, regardless of how reasonable it is, it cues them to try to buck it.

So unless and until we can extend a truly unconditional offer, I am thinking maybe it is not in anyone's best interest to make the offer at all. It will only end in conflict, as it has so many other times before.

 

[New Leaf]

Instead of LISTENING and taking some accountability- he did this. And I walked away- indicating to him that I was DONE discussing it- because I do NOT have to JUSTIFY how I FEEL in my OWN HOME.

This is so right, Penny, you do not have to justify how you feel in your own home. Really and truly, if our d cs are allowed under our good graces, into our homes for the umpteenth time, it should be them walking on eggshells, not us.

That would be huge, could you imagine? A respectful, conciliatory, appeasing, thoughtful adult child.
Happy to help out and decent behavior.
HUH.
I will not hold my breath.

But it seems with our offspring, as soon as we lay out an expectation, regardless of how reasonable it is, it cues them to try to buck it.

The more I look back on all of the times I took mine in through the revolving door, they were okay for awhile, then just spiraled down into old behaviors.

It was almost as if they were saying "You think you can tell me what to do?"
You know what, the answer was and is, I can't.
I can't tell them what to do because they are adults, and they want to do what they want to do.
I think they actually began to despise me, for having expectations......the nerve of me!

So unless and until we can extend a truly unconditional offer, I am thinking maybe it is not in anyone's best interest to make the offer at all. It will only end in conflict, as it has so many other times before.

How could we make an unconditional offer?
This is genius Albie, of course we can't...."Sure, come on home and do whatever you want......."
It is infeasible to live the way our kids want to live with us, in our homes.

They want to have their cake and eat it too.

So, they will have to take their cake and eat it elsewhere.

Penny, I am so glad you have a solution to see your grandson.

Some day, one day, our kids will open their eyes.
I still pray for that to happen.
Until it does, I will not put up with what they so freely dish out.

It has been more than a heart can take.

We do not deserve to be mistreated, especially in our own homes, our sanctuary.

Take care Penny, stay strong and stay the course, you are doing really well.

(((HUGS and more hugs)))
leafy

 

[PennyFromTheBlock]

Ok- so this is going to be me rambling, but I have to get it out.

You know, I have to say I feel like a 1000 pound weight is lifted off my shoulders. I'm not sad or upset he's gone. I'm glad.

His sister (my daughter) texted earlier that she's going to let him stay with her on the nights he has the baby. The other nights, will depend.

I told her that this is not her responsibility- that it never works when they try this. She responded that she can relate to him better (being his sibling vs being his parent) and she worries for my health and my safety.

That does make me sad.

She is able to speak logic to him - and he did text me an apology. A LONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG text. To which I simply replied "I appreciate your apology". No more, no hashing it out, no trying to explan or give advice or lecture or anything.

I know I went into this arrangement apprehensive but with good intentions.

He may never 'grow up' and realize any of this. I've almost come to peace with this as well.

I feel bad to the degree that his life will be SO HARD if he doesn't get help. I hate that FOR him. He did, through tears after the hyped up drama piece calmed down, say that he needs to go and see what medications he should get to help him. Getting him to admit and acknowledge that his mental health issues are REAL and HE must be the one that decides to get help and WANT help- is on him- it's the ONLY way he gets better. There are many that lead full productive lives with help. He can. I can't make him.

I wish I knew then what I know now- I'd have gotten him more help- I chalked a lot up to his immaturity and that he'd "grow up" and "grow out of it"- I didn't have the information then that I do now. I had/have no experience with mental problems like this.

/sigh. It's going to be ok.