She says she's ready ...so how do I help?

[Elsi]

Her main motivation might have been to connect with you, and she knows the magic words. She needed you, a dose of you, because she felt vulnerable and afraid.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

She finally texted me back. Said she’s sorry she worried me and sorry she didn’t call today, everything is just so hard and she was so tired today but she’ll call tomorrow for sure. I’m going to try to get down to the city and see both of them tomorrow. If she will tell me where she is. I’m not holding out a lot of hope. She gives me the run around like this all the time.

I’m disappointed but not surprised. Maybe she’ll surprise me and carry through one of these days. I’ll keep trying.

 

[Tired out]

Elsi, I hope she does contact you tomorrow. If she doesn't maybe you should wait until Thursday and just text a greeting... Love to hear from you soon, Thinking of you today. She knows you still care, that is good.

 

[Copabanana]

. Said she’s sorry she worried me and sorry she didn’t call today, everything is just so hard and she was so tired today but she’ll call tomorrow for sure.

This is very touching. I think it is very sweet that she texted again. This is very hopeful. I wonder if she really is borderline. If she was borderline I wonder if she would have this kind of empathy. She knows she will never lose you. She knows that. She knows you do not get mad and punish. It is because cares whether or not you suffer. She wants you to be okay. I am so touched by this.

She is having trouble sustaining caring for herself. I empathize with her deeply.

If I was you I would not mention again the treatment. Wait for her. I hope very much that she lets you know where she is or meets you tomorrow. Would you go out for a meal? Would the both of them come together? I will try to visualize it. Maybe it will help you come together. What sweet, sweet kids. This is so much to your credit, Elsi.

 

[Elsi]

I’m hoping to get them both together. We’ll see!

She’s been diagnosed at various times as either borderline or bipolar. No two ever seem to agree. Like SWOT, I don’t put much stock in diagnoses. She has rapid cycling mood swings and little impulse control when angry. She seems to have a poor sense of self and latches onto people hard and models her mannerisms and behavior on them while attached. She has a strong fear of abandonment and tends to engineer dramatic break ups with friends and romantic partners. Pushing people away before she can be dumped. I think those were the basis of the Borderline (BPD) diagnosis. But you’re right, she does seem to have the ability to emphasize, and I don’t think she is antisocial or cynically manipulative. She’s just...lost. I really think biomom abandoning her at one year did lasting damage to her ability to attach and trust. I think she also struggles with potential Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS), though that was never diagnosed. I’ve watched her struggle her whole life with school, with friends, with boyfriends, with everything. Nothing ever came easy for her.

I remember her in elementary school struggling so hard with homework. The school denied her an IEP on the basis that there was no descrepancy between iq and performance - I was told she was just borderline low iq. I wish so much now that I’d known enough to fight it then. The school system failed her. She needed an IEP and services. But when she was little she would try so hard to keep up. It would take her hours to get through homework even with my help and I would say maybe we’ve done enough. I will write a note to your teacher and tell her how hard you worked. And she would say no I have to finish I have to do this. She wanted so much to fit in and be like everyone else. She was so fiercely stubborn, even as a small child. I watched her struggle and try and gradually get discouraged and give up through middle and high school. It broke my heart. But that stubbornness is still in there, and I pray it will be the thing that saves her.

 

[Tired out]

Reading across our forum I think it is good that these adult children are feeling the holiday and wanting to reach out. To me it means they aren't totally lost. They know they have family and people who love and care about them.

 

[Copabanana]

either borderline or bipolar

I wonder. Elsi. She sounds quite bright to me. I do not buy the low IQ bit.

Oh how sad is her story. I do not think I was unlike her. I don't know what gave me my fight. I had nothing at all going for me. I built myself piece by piece.

that stubbornness is still in there, and I pray it will be the thing that saves her.

It just might.

 

[Elsi]

She sounds quite bright to me. I do not buy the low IQ bit.

I don’t either. She may not test well or perform well on traditional academic tasks, but she is not dumb. I’m so angry at the school system looking back. I think she could have been successful with the right supports, and what a difference that could have made in her life and self image.

 

[Copabanana]

. I think she could have been successful with the right supports, and what a difference that could have made in her life and self image.

I am coming to have very strange ideas. One of them is that if we think very, very positively, very, very lovingly, that that holding can be transformative. Maybe this is prayer.

The change came just recently. The Rabbi in the prayer class sent an email to the very small class, maybe 11 people, and she volunteered to pray for us, if we wanted, or a family member, if we chose. This was a couple weeks ago, and I was despondent about my son. I wrote back to say, yes, I would very much appreciate her prayer for my son, but most of all for me. And I opened my heart to her; I told her all of the ugly and small things about me, my weakness and my pain. I did not filter. I let her see me so that she could hold who I was and could discern the parts of me that could open. I trusted her to do that.

And not even four days later I called my son's friend, the concrete contractor, and within a day or so my son had called. He was guarded but I was not. I had opened to him. And now he is WORKING. I mean, maybe it was one day of work. But something has shifted. And as I type this I am believing it was prayer.

I don't believe anymore that lives are determined. Not even one bit. Your daughter touches my heart.

 

[BusynMember]

If Mom drank she should be specifically tested for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). We had to go to a special clinic for Sonic but we did. S sounds maybe alcohol affected in my opinion. I would not diagnose as I cant but even a little alcohol in utero can cause brain damage which can impact things like cognitive function, impulsivity, even the ability to remember things they learned. Memory.

Other red flags are how tiny she is. Many slcohol affected kids are very small. Some (not all) have dysmorphic features, especially eyes snd ears.

Obviously this is a physical disorder so psychiatrists are not good at catching it. Very often fetal alcohol spectrum kids drink too much and drug in spite being warned that they are prone to addiction. Even C can be affected.

Sonics birthmom was a raging drug addict who had four drug affected kids before him. They say that the younger kids tend to get more affects as the parental addicton gets worse. I dont know where S is in birthmoms family tree. But Sonic was fifth and had crack in his system at birth. And if his birthmom said yes to crack she obviously didnt stop drinking. I read that alcohol is more damaging to a developing fetus than street drugs. So we made sure he was tested. We were prepared. Or thought we were lol.

Fortunately Sonic has the important ability to make good choices and is smart. He does have high functioning autism and his ears sit very low on his head. He looks normal otherwise. But I am sure some of his spending impulsivity and inability to control overeating is a brain difference. And the drugs his birthmom ingested while pregnant did affect him.

S is probably too old for you to take her for this type of neurological exam....my guess is she wouldnt go. But some of the bad decisions she makes are possibly due to the alcohol pre birth. Thus she would need a lot of adult help even to hold a job. But she has to be willing.

Of course I am no expert. I just saw lots of experts with Sonic and read up on this stuff because of him. We knew in advance that our new precious little boy would have special needs and we wanted to learn as much as we could about what to expect. Haha nobody prepared us to not sleep for two years He can sleep now fortunately.

The great clinic Sonic went to for diagnosis is in Chicago. If you live near there and want the name just PM me.

Its pretty hard to be alcohol exposed in utero and come out fine. And psychiatrists dont know much about it. Its not their field. This is genuine varying degrees of organic brain damage. Ive seen quite a few kids afflicted badly when I was in the adoptive parent group. Fortunately our Sonic was not ruined from having a full life. Many are. And its not our faults. Or theirs.

Just my .02. I wish I did not know this much about fetal alcohol spectrum.

Love to you and yours. S if she has it sounds like she is higher functioning but she makes very dangerous life decisions, which is typical for Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) kids, if she is one.

Love to one of life's earth angels with a heart of gold. Please know that I realize Iay be way off. I hope you are not offended.

 

[RN0441]

Elsi

I hope that your daughter is searching for the right way to live her life. When they are sick they don't think straight. It is very sad and hard to watch.

I know I sound like a broken record but faith based is best. It saved our son's life.

He was broken too and didn't even have a lot of baggage in his life and to me, no real reason to be broken but it is what it is.

I will pray for her that she chooses to get her life together. God is bigger.

Hugs and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

 

[Elsi]

Oh, SWOT, I'm not offended! I know you have a lot of experience here. I strongly suspect Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) and have for some time. Biomom was (is) a serious alcoholic and S was her third and last. Biomom had pretty much given up the pretense of trying to be sober for the pregnancy by then, as far as I know. Unfortunately, their dad was not a believer in testing or services - he was offended by the suggestion that anything might be "wrong" with any of his kids and did not trust psychiatrists or counselors. And the school system was no help. So I felt completely blocked and gave up - I didn't actually have legal authority to push for any further testing since I wasn't able to formally adopt them. But not getting her into real testing and services is one of my great regrets. I think it could have made a huge difference to her. And as you say, now it's really too late. She won't go, would probably be hurt or offended by the suggestion that "something is wrong with her brain", and we don't have a paperwork trail with a childhood diagnosis to use for SSI application or anything like that. So we're muddling through on the symptoms and behaviors we have in front of us now.

But she has always presented a constellation of symptoms and issues that strongly suggested some kind of in utero damage to me. Growth problems (she was on growth hormone for a number of years). Hearing problems. Gastrointestinal issues. A congenital tremor. Learning problems. Subtle facial differences. Social problems. IQ testing put her somewhere between 80-85, which is low end of normal, but I'm not sure how meaningful those numbers are. It wasn't low enough to qualify her for any help and her learning problems were attributed to lower IQ rather than a defined learning disability that would qualify her for an IEP. But I worked with her on homework for years and it never felt right to me. She's not slow overall. She can be quite intuitive about some things. Some things just don't click for her - she doesn't think in quite the same way. And of course the mental health issues - volatile moods, anger issues, impulse control issues, an inability to adjust to new situations or change.

When she was little she used to have terrible night terrors, screaming bloody murder and standing up stiffly with her eyes wide open but not awake and not able to be woken. She could scream like that for 15-20 minutes before we could rouse her and calm her down. (We were not popular apartment neighbors during this period). She was the kid who had to be peeled off my knees screaming every day for weeks at preschool and kindergarten drop off. I remember driving her home from school about three weeks into second grade and asking how school was going. There was a long pause and she finally said in this tiny voice, "Well, I usually stop crying after lunch, because I know it's almost over." I was so upset, I called her teacher that night and asked "has my child been crying every day until lunch? When were you going to tell me?" Her teacher said, "yes, she does that, but I'm sure she'll adjust soon, I gave her a little chair in the corner where she can calm herself down." I'm crying now thinking about it again. All the signs have been there since the start, and no one helped her. I did my best but I'm not a professional and it wasn't enough. I was blocked on all sides from getting professional services by her dad on one side and the school district on the other. They just didn't want to pay for SPED services for any more kids than they had to, in my opinion.

And now here we are. It makes me want to scream. She's a life. She counts. We owed her better.

 

[Elsi]

Elsi

I hope that your daughter is searching for the right way to live her life. When they are sick they don't think straight. It is very sad and hard to watch.

I know I sound like a broken record but faith based is best. It saved our son's life.

He was broken too and didn't even have a lot of baggage in his life and to me, no real reason to be broken but it is what it is.

I will pray for her that she chooses to get her life together. God is bigger.

Hugs and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

Thanks, RN! I know there are many wonderful faith-based programs, and I am so glad that has been the answer for your son! Thank you so much for your prayers, compassion and support.

Sadly, I think S will be very resistant to a faith-based program. There are some deep wounds related to church and religion in her life. I don't know if she would even consider the option. But I can put it out there and see what she says.

How did you find and get your son into his program? And how was it paid for? Was it free, insurance-based or private pay?

 

[Elsi]

Well, she just texted me and said she's up and gave me an address. So I guess i'm headed into the city to hopefully see both of them this afternoon. We're not doing our family Thanksgiving until Friday, and I have no idea if I'll get either of them up here for that, but if I see them today and have a meal out somewhere I'll feel better either way. Wish me luck!

 

[Copabanana]

They say that the younger kids tend to get more affects

My son was like the fifth kid

red flags are how tiny she is. Many slcohol affected kids are very small. Some (not all) have dysmorphic features, especially eyes snd ears.

My son had a neuropsychological exam at Children's Hospital which also included exam by a Child Psychiatrist right after I adopted him. He also was tested by the Infectious Disease MD at the Children's Hospital. The neuropsychologist said he had problems with sequencing but did not come up with any developmental diagnosis. I knew he was drug exposed. From the start he was anxious and impulsive. He could also be hyper-attentive. If something got his attention he was riveted. He went to a behaviorally oriented nursery school for a year or so. But at 5 or 6 he had a seizure and I brought him to a neurologist at Childrens hospital who said he had a marker of fetal alcohol which was a certain eye fold. He did not however give him the diagnosis.

I am filled with remorse that I could have done more to prepare him for adulthood had I been more proactive and more focused upon limitations as opposed to functioning. He did always have an IEP and I advocated for him fiercely in school where he had non-public school for I would say 4 years in 7th grade through 12th while we were here in the States. When we were out of the country he went to private schools in those countries in both Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries. Languages are among his gifts.

Because of who I am, good and bad, my expectation for him was that he would go to college. He did for a year and he largely held his own. But he did not have the motivation to continue.

I am so confused. I was so far from creating a supportive structure for J, like SWOT did for Sonic, it is not even funny. Not one bit funny. The expectation for J was that he become independent. I never considered an alternative. Was all of this misery avoidable? No two children and no two parents are alike in their strengths and weaknesses.

Sonic seems compliant in a way that J was not beginning at age 15 or 16 or so. There was never any serious acting out. And really, there still is not. A resistance to maturing and to accepting responsibility; an inability to focus upon goals and to commit; difficulty managing money; a lack of order and organization in managing his things (I am the same way unfortunately.)

 

[Elsi]

a certain eye fold

S has this.

I never considered an alternative. Was all of this misery avoidable?

Copa, I feel the same. I have so much regret over not insisting (somehow - I'm not sure how) that she get services. I let her dad's pride and the school district's recalcitrance get in the way of what she needed. I wish we had all been working together to set up a supported, semi-independent adulthood like Sonic's situation instead of forcing her to try to do things she just can't do. I never expected S to go to college, but I thought she could perhaps get an associates degree or trade of some kind and be ok. This is looking less and less likely.

Unlike J and Sonic, S started acting out in middle school and was out of control by high school. She was so frustrated and so angry at the world. And she had reasons to be angry at the world. I will always feel that we let her down.

But what can we do now except move forward with what is? At least you were able to get J on disability, so he has some income. I don't even have that for S. I think she would have qualified, if she had had testing and diagnosis as a minor. But I don't know what to do about it now.

It's so hard to second guess. We did the best we could with the knowledge and resources we had at the time. We have no idea, really, how things would have worked out if we had taken another path. If I keep thinking about it I will go crazy.

Heading into the city now. I hope she's still there when I get there. She has a history of standing me up. But I told her we could go to the drug store and buy some personal care items she needs, so I think she will be there. I know she's hungry, too.

C started a new job (yay!) and gets off work at 1. So we're going to try to meet up with him there and get something to eat. If it all works out it will be a minor miracle.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh Copa you had no real knowledge. We knew Sonic had been born with crack in his system. So there was no "maybe" whether he was badly exposed or not. We were told from Day One that he may never be independent and we may need to find adult services for him. So we had low expectations but we loved this little sweetie so very much. We wanted him regardless and decided to do our best for him.

Sonic exceeded all expectations but we never thought "college" ....and being who WE are college was not important...just adulting and working, which we hoped he would be able to do.

Sonic is very easygoing and naturally content so it was easy to get him to participate in services. Not all kids are good natured and eager to please.

Sonic has that fold in his eyes too as well as low ears. But he and J are clearly not completely on the spectrum. J is actually doing well!

Dont you dare think badly of yourself as a mother. Nobody told you not to have high expectations so of course you did. We were told and became very eager to help him to his highest level of function, but WE KNEW!

There is a big difference. Many parents who adopt are shocked when their beautiful kids struggle. The adoption workers usually dont tell us much. They are a disaster. YOU did well!

by the way, I am a disorganized wreck lol I have learned to deal with this the best I can!

 

[Copabanana]

Wish me luck!

Good luck! Have fun. (I hope.)

the suggestion that "something is wrong with her brain"

OK. I want to offer an alternative perspective which in no way contradicts the ideas here about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). That alternative perspective is developmental trauma. The huge difference is this perspective is not pathology based. It starts from the position that there can be re-integration of capacity. And that we become stuck as early as in-utero but we can become unstuck.

If anybody is interested in this perspective, Somatic Experiencing Therapy is an organized theory and clinical treatment from that line of thinking. The originator is Peter Levine who was some sort of neuro-physicist who worked on stress, who later became a Psychologist. The other thinker from this perspective is Van der Kolk, who is a MD.

I really do not want to argue about this because it would not be good for me, so I won't. I am not saying there are not physical and temperamental and constitutional effects of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) or Drug Exposure. What I am positing is that there are early accommodations to these which have been traumatically experienced, that can be targeted by bodywork, and there can be re-accommodations that are more functional and stronger and more integrative of capacities. And even at my age I can revisit these early traumas and make new connections and live in a better way. And this is exactly what I am doing. It is not an easy thing.

But there are body-based activities that are open to everybody, like Trauma-informed Yoga, or Functional Patterns which I just learned about, that is a form of personal training, and Pilates, etc. that empower people to develop core strengths, and to ground themselves in ways that act to orient them to their lives in a different way. These are strengths-based as opposed to pathology-based.

I also happen to believe that the arts, movement, meditation and spirituality are ways to do some of the same thing.

What I am saying here Elsi, is everybody has a story. All of us are broken in some way. We have each of us characteristics, pains, limitations that were not supported by our families and by our societies. Some of this brokenness becomes the basis for the greatest of our gifts. Look at you and your life. Look at SWOT. I am thinking here of each of you whose pain and hurt has become the springboard for soaring. On this thread alone there is Tired and RN, etc. Just on this page. Our brokenness is on the same continuum. This is not categorical like Disabled or NOT. We are all the same, I argue. Except I won't argue.

I gave her a little chair in the corner where she can calm herself down."

This happened to my son too in 6th grade. It was traumatizing. To me, especially.

 

[Copabanana]

At least you were able to get J on disability, so he has some income.

I did NOT get him on disability. He was helped after he left home by the County in which he lived. And he f-ed up because had he gotten on my account, and had he put in his application his early developmental issues he would have gotten a way higher amount. And they say we cannot appeal at this point. I am devastated. I blame myself for this, too. If I had been more proactive I could have helped him secure his life better.

We knew Sonic had been born with crack in his system.

But SWOT. I knew J's parents were drug users. Multiple drugs.

What I did not say in the earlier post is that the Infectious Disease Doctor to whom I brought him at Children's did not detect the Hepatitis. At 2 he could have been treated. Instead it was not detected until he was 19. It is appalling.

He was on Regional Center at risk when I got him. And then he was kicked off when he was about 3. They no longer felt he qualified. He did receive services all of the time he was with me, speech and language therapy, a therapist, behavioral nursery school, an IEP, later a psychiatrist. Nobody gave me a developmental diagnosis except ADHD. There was a question of mild Aspergers when he was in 6th grade, but the child psychiatrist later said any question of that was eliminated. That J did not have it.

I was somebody who always built on strengths in my own life. And truthfully, I had very, very few. I took what I had and I pushed and pushed. I did not push my son, but I did have expectations that he would live as I did I. Which I did not impose. But I believed he would live kind of like I did. I have the deepest pain and regret that I could not have done or been somebody that could have avoided all of this trauma and pain for us.

J's deepest pain and struggling came after he was diagnosed with the Hep B at 19 and it worsened at age 20. I am convinced too that when he traveled alone in 2006 to a foreign country, at age 18, where we had lived that something happened to him that he never disclosed. He had saved his Christmas job money to travel to see a girl. He left one person and came back another. I have always suspected that he may have been assaulted. Because he did not listen to me, to stay in a hostel. He stayed with the girl's family, and apparently he was robbed, ended up on the beach to sleep where there are lots of predators and then showed up at my friend's dance academy crying. After that is when the mood symptoms began. Until then he was hopeful, active and light-hearted. He was active in martial arts, at the gym, learning languages, etc. He had many friends. It went from day to night.

I had no expectation whatsoever that our lives would take the turn that they did. I had been in complete denial. Some of this could have been anticipated. After all. Because his life had already had imprinted so much. Hindsight is 20 20. And very painful.

 

[Copabanana]

My cousin's son is dyslexic. They have always lived in an agricultural community, which is where I live now. Her son became an agricultural foreman. I am not sure if it is a dairy or fields or a combination but he has had made a good income and he has had a stable life where he has supported and maintained his family. But he did not have the developmental challenges are kids had. But at the same time some of our kids here had loving parents and stability and they are having some of the same kind of challenges that our developmentally challenged kids have. I am feeling so overwhelmed by this I am going to quit posting for today.

Oh. How I wish we could all of us go to Oz and come back whole.

 

[RN0441]

Hi Elsi

I think that people get the "church" or a "pastor" or a "religion" confused with GOD.

None of those are GOD and even though they represent God we each can have our very OWN relationship with God and talk to him and pray to him. We do not need any of the above to do that.

I did not realize that either! I am in Bible study now for ten weeks and I have learned so much and it has helped me tremendously. I think I'm on the right track.

So many turn away from one religion or another because someone is bad or the group does bad things. That does not mean we should turn away from God.

I have learned that we are to believe in Him, worship Him (church) and serve Him and talk about Him.

I made a deal with Him that if he saved my son I would spend the rest of my life serving Him and that is what I intend to do. I made a promise.

If you PM me I can tell you more about the program. They have them all over the US and they are all different pricing. It is non profit. It was affordable for us and I am forever grateful for the change in our son.