Should I get 18 year old out of jail?

[New Life]

Hello I am a new member here. I’m looking for input from others “who have been there”. I have three “adult” sons - 24, 21, and 18. The younger two have been hard to raise. Both have abused drugs and the younger also alcohol. I am a single mom. Their dad has been in jail for drug use as well.

The younger was in juvenile probation, in a treatment center, and the last day of probation got drunk and then arrested as an adult for a felony. He’s on probation now for four years and only about six months in. He wrecked a used car I got him. I paid to fix it. Then he drove drunk and wrecked it again (and didn’t get a DWI!). He’s in jail now on probation violation. He was arrested for shoplifting ($2 chicken sandwich he ate and forgot to pay for in Walmart) and didn’t tell his PO. Nor did he tell her about the wrecks and other contact with police. Anyhow he’s there with no bond and will sit for two months for a court date. OR I can get a lawyer who can probably resolve it in a week or two with a probation amendment.

I’m trying to choose a life for myself. I’m moving to an apartment soon with my fiancé. I have to sell my house since the kids are grown (part of divorce-have to give ex his equity). My 18 and 21 year old have been living at home and will soon be homeless. They don’t want to live with my fiancé or contribute financially which was my rule. Nor do they want to get rid of their dogs. They plan on living out of their (wrecked) cars.

All that to say I think he may be better off in jail. But he may lose his job if I don’t get him out. If he were older I think I would be firm in leaving him there. But he’s only 18 with a lot to deal with already. If he hadn’t dropped out of high school this would be his senior year of high school. I feel for him but I just don’t know. Any advice is welcome!

 

[Copabanana]

He wrecked a used car I got him. I paid to fix it.

New Life, welcome to you. The change will come from you. It's time to think through each choice you make with your welfare at the center. This will be best for your children, I believe. Bygones are bygones. Your son was gifted a car. If he wrecked it, it's his responsibility to pay for repairs, or not. His choice. Adults need to pay their own expenses unless there are parental means to help pay for college.

He was arrested for shoplifting ($2 chicken sandwich he ate and forgot to pay for in Walmart) and didn’t tell his PO. Nor did he tell her about the wrecks and other contact with police.

Forgot? That's called theft. Not telling his PO essential things, that's called parole violations. The only way he will learn to be responsible is to take responsibility for what he does and the consequences thereof.

OR I can get a lawyer who can probably resolve it in a week

Why would you do that? If we make every single problem or error right, how will he learn to live better?

My 18 and 21 year old have been living at home and will soon be homeless.

No. They are choosing homelessness. Nobody forced this on them. People get to live as they choose.

But he may lose his job if I don’t get him out.

And then what happens next? Do you pay for all the other attorneys that come for future arrests, so he can keep his job? This life of your son's is his life, not yours. He will either make a good life or a troubled and difficult life based upon his actions, attitudes and most importantly, his learning. If you kiss all his booboos and disappear all of the results of his poor choices, where will be the learning and incentive to live better?

I hope you haven't experienced my reply as harsh or uncaring. I don't know another way to say it, except directly.

The best way to help your children is to let them live their own lives which means that they take responsibility to live as well as they can and if they're living poorly, to experience the consequences, so that they can choose to live better. If they don't they don't.

It sounds like you may feel some guilt about this new relationship and marriage. Maybe you feel you don't deserve to be happy. That's not true. Your children need to learn that their lives as adults are independent of you. If they can rein you in by guilt-tripping and manipulation that is not good for them or for you.

 

[New Life]

Thank you for replying Copabanana. I do not take your reply as harsh. I appreciate the directness. I most appreciate the statement it’s time to make decisions with my own welfare at the center. I often feel guilty or selfish for doing just that. I need to remember that it’s in a healthy way and not being selfish. I’ve not neglected my son (even though he might try to make me think so).

I don’t feel guilty about my relationship and upcoming marriage. I do feel guilty though for choosing an apartment and not a house. We want to rent for a year before buying. I wanted an apartment because I want a break from home ownership and house responsibilities. However an apartment presents challenges for the boys. My cats are the two pet maximum so their dogs have to go. The younger is on deferred probation for a felony so likely couldn’t be added on the lease. My 24 year old may live with us after he graduates college this May for a short time. So space is limited (2 bdrm).

I feel like I know what I should do concerning the current jail situation but I’ve gotten stuck in analysis paralysis.

 

[Copabanana]

I feel like I know what I should do concerning the current jail situation but I’ve gotten stuck in analysis paralysis.

I get that way with decisions, too.

I think it's because of fear. I think I have an underlying script that life is dangerous and that if I don't do everything right I will fall off a narrow tightrope into peril. The way I have coped with this my whole life is to deny fear, deny danger, and just rush headlong into the unknown without thinking. For most of my life that worked. Now that I am old, it doesn't work so well.

You have made a deliberate and well-thought-out plan of your priorities about what is in your and your fiance's best interest. It' is hard enough to begin a new marriage. Young adults have another life challenge. How to begin to accept responsibility for themselves, and to no longer expect their parent to take the primary burden from them. Of course, this is harder with the adult children of single parents. When I met my partner my son was just 21. He took it hard. My son was always the one and only. There were many many years when I felt extreme guilt and distress for his suffering. I felt I was responsible to help him fix it. This attitude on my part was very damaging. I created the illusion for my son that I was responsible and that the more infantile he acted, the more I would and should step up and solve everything. He regressed and regressed. I could not bear the vulnerability of my son.

What I realized after many years was that it was my own vulnerability and fear I could not bear.

The point I am making here is that we need to get back into our own lives. You have your life under control. It's your sons lives that need attention. And they need their attention. Not yours. You are NOT saying your children can't live with you. You're saying their dogs can't. They have every opportunity to find short-term care for their animals and to find a place together or with other young people to live together with their dogs.

This is not a perfect world. We make it better through how we work to make it better. Crying for Mommy to fix it, will not work. Well, my son still does this at 35, so who am I to say?

So, back to what I wrote at the beginning. Did you have an early life like I did, which was not necessarily all that secure? We could never take anything for granted, that life would be secure or there would be support or backup. It was walking a tightrope. People with secure upbringings trust their decisions, they trust themselves and they trust life. They don't second guess well-made decisions. Your decisions about your housing are well thought out and make sense. At least I think so.

I don't know anything about you or your life, but maybe this is an opportunity to look a little bit at your operating system for life and to examine your relationships with your children, with that in mind. Your children, like mine, might have gotten the message that they could coerce you or manipulate you into feeling guilty and doubting yourself and in that way get the outcome they want. This is what happened with my son. But more importantly, it was my reaction. I felt that I was responsible to make him happy, to make his life good, to help him correct it. That I was responsible. I wasn't.

Maybe it doesn't apply to you, but it might.

By the way, at ages 21 and 24 it's time to emancipate from the nest, in my book. You're not telling them to go. They are choosing to go because you won't give them 100 % of what they want. So? Let them work for 100 % of what they want. It's not Mom's job.

 

[New Life]

Oddly I had a secure childhood. I am an identical twin though which had its own challenges.

And to clarify the 24 year old has done everything opposite of his two younger brothers. He’s been a joy to parent. He doesn’t live with me now. All his buddies are moving in with girlfriends soon and he can’t afford rent for a one bedroom alone just yet. Once he graduates he will get a full time job and move out shortly thereafter. He wants to be on his own so this is very temporary. Although I do quite enjoy his company.

The 21 year old and 18 year old are the ones still at home right now. Both have been challenging but the 18 year old definitely the most (one with the felony). He definitely is an expert at coercing and manipulating. It’s sad that’s how he’s learned to operate. And I guess my reactions helped teach that.

Not only did I say their dogs couldn’t live with us but also that they have to contribute financially. So still I see it is their decision. The felony could be an issue too but it’s not my felony.

About the current issue whether or not to get a lawyer. I struggle with responses for the endless remarks about how he has nobody that cares about him to help him out with a lawyer. I get sucked into it easily. My response is usually once it escalates just to end the conversation and avoid. Any advice how to handle that?

 

[ksm]

It's time to live your life, and let others live theirs...

Being in jail may be the one thing that changes your son's future, or maybe he will continue to make the same decisions that will send him back to jail. He still can't use words that shows he took responsibility for his decisions.

Don't feel guilty about helping your oldest son transition from college to being self sufficient. Collect the rent, and if it is financially possible, you can help him use it for a deposit and rent and a few necessities.

Have you tried attending AlAnon or NarAnon? It's helped me.

Ksm

 

[ANewLife4Me]

Hello New Life welcome. Agree with all Copa and KSM said, my daughter is 32 now and has been in and out of jail multiple times. We could never afford a lawyer, the court appointed her one but, always bailed her out. She told me everything I wanted to hear to get out but did not keep any of her promises once she gained her freedom and came back to live at home.

She is currently in jail again. Left our home March 2023….better off living in my car than with you 2! She was stable living us for 3 years but we paid the price. She was verbally abusive towards us and loved seeing us unhappy. Never knew when the next explosion was going to happen. We helped get her license back for DUI, she saved enough money in 3 years to put a huge down payment on a new car, helped pay the enormous car insurance.

This time in jail we said enough! Of course she called us first for bail. We told her, you leave our house again, no help. We are sticking with this as hard as it is. In the time she was out there she did not pay her car insurance so the car was already marked for repossession. The insurance gave her a chance though but now that she was not making the payment, it’s gone…finance company took it. She has no shelter when she gets out, she is not coming back home, she will be on the streets the 1st time in her life.

So you see, while my story is a bit different than yours, the ending is still the same. The children do as they want, he is young but, as in the case of my daughter…..if not nipped in the bud, continues as they get older.

My advice is no lawyer or bail. He needs to understand and think on what he has done. He is no longer in juvenile detention but a real jail, hopefully it’s a shock to him.

You also need a break. Let him figure out how he is going to handle this, let him talk to his lawyer and case worker in jail. You step back and see how he handles this. Trust me it will continue if not.

Big hugs!!

 

[Crayola14]

Jail could good for him if he uses that time to get his GED. His chances of getting in trouble again increase drastically if he doesn’t get a GED. It’s up to him to better himself.

 

[Copabanana]

I struggle with responses for the endless remarks about how he has nobody that cares about him to help him out with a lawyer

He is the one who has to come to his own rescue. But more importantly, he needs to care enough about himself to NOT commit crimes and make other disastrous decisions. The only way to change that is LEARNING due to aversive consequences. If he feels and knows that the help comes from YOU he won't change.

Finally, jail does not kill people. It's living badly that does. Many of the inmates I worked with didn't mind jail. They got healthy. They read. They chatted. They worked out.

I get sucked into it easily.

Me too. The only remedy to this is distance.

My response is usually once it escalates just to end the conversation and avoid. Any advice how to handle that?

Boundaries are the thing here. But this means external boundaries. like limits on answering the phone, etc. but also internal boundaries. Internal boundaries take time to build. They come from the belief and the certainty that you can operate from inside of you., located in you. It is a practice and needs time to achieve by operating from our thoughts, true wants and needs. Not from pressure, manipulation, impulses.

I think being an identical twin makes it harder. But that's a complex topic.

 

[New Life]

Thank you all.

I have been attending Al-Anon for some time. It helps but i need to work the steps with a sponsor still.

When my son was first arrested for the felony he sat for about 100 days in jail. His 10% bond was $10k. I didn’t pay for that or a lawyer. Now he’s on deferred probation for four years.

The shoplifting along with not telling his PO about that and other police contact is why he’s back in jail (without bond) for probation violation. His court date isn't for two months (unless we get a paid lawyer). He’s also wrecked a car and once fixed wrecked it again driving drunk. That was my tipping point to not get the lawyer. He claims he just messed up and that I don’t see the progress he’s made.

All things considered he has been doing a lot better than years past. The level of craziness has been dialed way down. Life has been ok around the home. He has(had) a job. But as this last PO visit drew near, when he knew he was being arrested, he started drinking. He does need to learn that is not a coping mechanism. And that his decisions have consequences. If he weren’t on probation I’m sure it would be much worse too.

The desire to save and rescue is hard to not follow.

 

[Copabanana]

He claims he just messed up

Yeah....

that I don’t see the progress he’s made.

???

The desire to save and rescue is hard to not follow.

Who are you rescuing and saving? Certainly not him. Are you rescuing yourself from your feelings of guilt and responsibility?

 

[New Life]

Progress as in he’s doing better than in years past. But not enough.

And yes I think it is trying to get rid of feelings of guilt and responsibility.

 

[Copabanana]

Progress as in he’s doing better than in years past. But not enough.

I am dealing with the same thing, as we speak.

My son today said similar words,

My son: "I'm doing way better..."

Me, in my head: No, You're not. And most of all when things don't go your way you batter me verbally. You say I don't love you. You imply you're going to end your life.

What I did write among other things; " My only function in life is not to be battered by you." It's my birthday tomorrow. Happy Birthday to me.

My son is nearly twice your son's age. So, there is that.
__
Back to your son. He is young and I may not understand, but how is it doing better to be in jail, to have withheld information from your probation officer that you're required to provide, driving drunk, committing a felony and forgetting to pay for food he's taken in a store.
But maybe I am confusing my own situation and yours. It is unbelievable that a 35 year old man is holding his mother responsible for basic care and blackmailing her if he doesn't get 100 % what he wants, which is coddling.

I am hijacking your thread. I'm sorry.

 

[ANewLife4Me]

Progress as in he’s doing better than in years past. But not enough.

And yes I think it is trying to get rid of feelings of guilt and responsibility.

Copa has given great advice but I just wanted to say it’s not your responsibility at all what your son does and therefore should be no guilt on your part. I am coming to terms with this myself as each time she is in jail, gives me too much time to think. But if I take the blinders off of my own eyes, she manipulated both her Dad and I. If I told her no she would threaten with, wait till Daddy gets home, see what he says. They will indeed make you think they are better but, as I am doing with my own daughter, I want to see steady improvement. Her attending mental health counseling and taking medication, holding a steady job as I know she is more than capable of, to contain the verbal abuse and fear of violence towards us. Those are real changes but all I ever received was promises, which were broken as soon as she had gotten her way.

It’s never too late, start him out early and lay the groundwork now of what you expect from him and the consequences if he does not comply. Wish I had done this the very first time she went to jail but, wasted 10 years of this back and forth to have no different results. Don’t be me years later, it’s better to do it now. It’s going to be the hardest, heartbreaking thing you will do but, you will know for sure the path he wants to choose. I pray it’s the right one.

 

[New Life]

Thank you all for your replies. Copa, believe it or not the laundry list of infractions is in ways better than before. He is dealing with consequences some of which started long before. Looking back I think the extreme irrational and crazy behavior was drug use. I could not live like that any longer. Due to probation he just drinks now. It’s still not great but I can function again. It’s hard to explain. I hope I make sense. That said though you are correct and he’s definitely not doing well.

Update. He was assigned a court appointed lawyer for his probation violation. It was the same lawyer he was appointed for the original felony. I made one phone call. He must’ve thought I don’t want her calling all the time again. He had court today and was released.

I have a bunch of showings to sell my house this weekend. I was secretly hoping he stayed in jail while it sold. Now I get to deal with getting him out of the way. And him trying to bring the dog back. And cleaning after he whirlwinds in the house tonight. Oh the joy!

 

[Copabanana]

I am involved in this "I'm doing better" conversation with my son. I am not into detecting millimeter differences. To me, problematic and chaos and conflict and trouble are all ruinous. I get sick. If I am sick, like I was last night, with heart and stomach pain, unable to sleep until 3 am, that is not "doing better."

My son is twice your son's age. I am not responsible to help a middle-aged person "do better." I am 15 years in. To me, doing better, after a point in somebodys' life is their responsibility, and society's (jail, prison, SSI, etc.) Not a mother's.

My situation is different than yours New Life.

 

[ANewLife4Me]

I am involved in this "I'm doing better" conversation with my son. I am not into detecting millimeter differences. To me, problematic and chaos and conflict and trouble are all ruinous. I get sick. If I am sick, like I was last night, with heart and stomach pain, unable to sleep until 3 am, that is not "doing better."

My son is twice your son's age. I am not responsible to help a middle-aged person "do better." I am 15 years in. To me, doing better, after a point in somebodys' life is their responsibility, and society's (jail, prison, SSI, etc.) Not a mother's.

My situation is different than yours New Life.

Definitely identified with what you’re saying here Copa. 10 years in myself, the sickness and sleepless nights…took me this long to finally start to put an end to this nightmare my husband and I have been living. I only wish those who find this board could have the strength to see all of us long timers have accomplished nothing, the children sadly are the same.

 

[New Life]

ANewLife4Me I appreciate what you said. My son is young at 18 but I’ve been at it with him since probably 7th grade. It started getting really bad during the lockdown and worse when he started high school from home that fall. By sophomore year he was kicked out of the alternative school and sent to JJAEP and eventually arrested as a juvenile. So many phone calls to the police and trips to the ER and psychiatric evaluations. Such crazy irrational behavior and manipulation and verbal abuse. Juvenile probation and a few months in a treatment center and now adult probation and probation violations. Time off work for court dates from truancy to breaking in a liquor store to wrecking a car without a license. I’d say I’m about six years in with him and longer if you count the older middle son who I had a tough time with too. Way too many tears and sleepless nights. All this along with Al-Anon and now this board I believe I’ll be able to put up firm boundaries and step out of it now that he is an “adult”. I hope and pray for the strength. Thank you for your perspective.

 

[ANewLife4Me]

ANewLife4Me I appreciate what you said. My son is young at 18 but I’ve been at it with him since probably 7th grade. It started getting really bad during the lockdown and worse when he started high school from home that fall. By sophomore year he was kicked out of the alternative school and sent to JJAEP and eventually arrested as a juvenile. So many phone calls to the police and trips to the ER and psychiatric evaluations. Such crazy irrational behavior and manipulation and verbal abuse. Juvenile probation and a few months in a treatment center and now adult probation and probation violations. Time off work for court dates from truancy to breaking in a liquor store to wrecking a car without a license. I’d say I’m about six years in with him and longer if you count the older middle son who I had a tough time with too. Way too many tears and sleepless nights. All this along with Al-Anon and now this board I believe I’ll be able to put up firm boundaries and step out of it now that he is an “adult”. I hope and pray for the strength. Thank you for your perspective.

I am so sorry it’s been a long road for you as well. I pray for strength that you can help yourself more than him, even with our firm resolve we still fall backwards at times. But, as even with my daughter being jail…..this time I cannot falter.

Good luck on the sale of your home! I have to ask if I may, is your son going with to the new house? You mentioned about wishing he was kept in jail a bit longer. Having pondered up and moving if my daughter is violent once out of jail will be my only recourse. Terrible to uproot our entire life but, safety - peace of mind would be worth it for me. Mine is 32, time for her to start being in charge of her own life.

 

[New Life]

The younger boys 18 and 21 were both told they could live with us but they were required to work and contribute and follow our rules. And no room for their dogs since it’s a two bedroom apartment (renting for a year).

The 18 year old doesn’t want to live with my fiancé. We’ve been together for over six years but my son has never liked him. My son even attacked him once swinging a suitcase hitting him over the head. Surprising that man has stayed with me after some of what he’s endured! My son is not opposed to work. He likes to work but doesn’t want to pay any rent or bills. I do think one day he will change his mind. If he’s willing to do as asked we’ll let him. He’s planning on living in his car so the future will be interesting.

The 21 year old is about to be on probation too for a DWI. He doesn’t want to get rid of his dog so same story with him. He’s got this plan he’s going to buy some land in Arkansas and transfer his probation and build a cabin. . If he asks to live with us we’ll let him also if he agrees to do what we’ve asked.

I have to say I don’t think I’d be able to end this if not for having to sale my house and move. I have to sale to give my ex his equity. I was allowed to stay in the house until the last kid was out of high school (should be graduating in May had he not dropped out). Moving gave me a little support in laying out future expectations. And leasing an apartment helped with the dog situation since my cats are the allowed two pets. And the 18 year old has a felony so probably can’t be added to the lease. And now it will be my fiancés home too so he will help require them to be accountable. And not allow me be abused. I still hope and pray I have the strength to keep firm boundaries. I’m grateful for his support.

I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have a lot of anxiety about the future and how this will all play out. I am trying to be excited about choosing me and a new life.