The study results are in: Outcomes of Adults with Childhood EBD
R
runawaybunny
Guest
The download issues were my fault, I goofed up the download permissions. The downloads should work now.
R
runawaybunny
Guest
The download issues were my fault, I goofed up the download permissions. The downloads should work now.
house of cards
New Member
The last line was especially powerful...isn't that what most of us are fighting against as an outcome.
R
runawaybunny
Guest
gcvmom: I've been living in Orange County for 35 years.
I believe that there are at least a couple of other members from the so cal area.
I believe that there are at least a couple of other members from the so cal area.
fosterparent
New Member
I opened it with Adobe with no problem.
Hi everyone,
Sorry I am so late to respond...
I am glad you found the result interesting...Thank you for your comments. No one mentioned the EXPULSION RATE. How do our kids get expelled from GRADE SCHOOL (11%
---High school I know how it happens but the rate (20%) is unacceptably high.
The decision to let each of you decide what "success" means probably caused some "noise" in the data that limited the statistical results. However, I still agree with my own decision in that if I had used "general" success criteria, the only successful adults would have been the 19 who we believe ARE successful in the typical sense based on other answers. THAT would have limited the findings even more ( (a 19 to 82 ratio of success to nonsuccess.) I hope to get this published as an article in a scholarly journal, but I always put things here first, and yes, I am preaching to the choir for sure. This was delivered as a paper at NASP in New Orleans on February 7, 2008.
Thanks to all of you who participated.
Martie
Sorry I am so late to respond...
I am glad you found the result interesting...Thank you for your comments. No one mentioned the EXPULSION RATE. How do our kids get expelled from GRADE SCHOOL (11%
---High school I know how it happens but the rate (20%) is unacceptably high.The decision to let each of you decide what "success" means probably caused some "noise" in the data that limited the statistical results. However, I still agree with my own decision in that if I had used "general" success criteria, the only successful adults would have been the 19 who we believe ARE successful in the typical sense based on other answers. THAT would have limited the findings even more ( (a 19 to 82 ratio of success to nonsuccess.) I hope to get this published as an article in a scholarly journal, but I always put things here first, and yes, I am preaching to the choir for sure. This was delivered as a paper at NASP in New Orleans on February 7, 2008.
Thanks to all of you who participated.
Martie
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
This is great info, Martie. Thank you for compiling it.
Does anyone have a good place to find other statistical data on EBD adult outcomes?
I know we're fighting an uphill battle, but all wee difficult child's docs avoid that question like the plague. I want to know what I'm fighting.
Does anyone have a good place to find other statistical data on EBD adult outcomes?
I know we're fighting an uphill battle, but all wee difficult child's docs avoid that question like the plague. I want to know what I'm fighting.
Shari,
There ARE no other adult outcome studies for EBD that ask the types of questions we did ( which is why we asked.) Most other studies will give graduation rates and later employment rates, sometimes incarceration rates, but we were looking for REASONS in differences in outcomes, which range from very good (one adult with a graduate degree (who is 29 by the way) and several college graduates.) These are among those who we believe would be indistinguishable from the "typical" same aged person. We also counted full time employment as a very good outcome when combined with financial independence. College isn't for everyone.
What is clear, however, is that despite the huge efforts and supports supplied by families, some adults are very unsuccessful. It is very sad, but if you follow the PE board, you know it is true.
No retrospective study can establish causality, but we were trying to get at "what made the difference in outcome, after we established that there was a difference.
In my research fantasy life, I would like to ask the same questions in 5 years of these parents because a number of the EBD adults in this sample are a bit too young to consider the outcome as in any way finished. That will not be possible, however, because we do not know who the respondents are and have no way to contact each person individually.
Thanks for the question,
Martie
There ARE no other adult outcome studies for EBD that ask the types of questions we did ( which is why we asked.) Most other studies will give graduation rates and later employment rates, sometimes incarceration rates, but we were looking for REASONS in differences in outcomes, which range from very good (one adult with a graduate degree (who is 29 by the way) and several college graduates.) These are among those who we believe would be indistinguishable from the "typical" same aged person. We also counted full time employment as a very good outcome when combined with financial independence. College isn't for everyone.
What is clear, however, is that despite the huge efforts and supports supplied by families, some adults are very unsuccessful. It is very sad, but if you follow the PE board, you know it is true.
No retrospective study can establish causality, but we were trying to get at "what made the difference in outcome, after we established that there was a difference.
In my research fantasy life, I would like to ask the same questions in 5 years of these parents because a number of the EBD adults in this sample are a bit too young to consider the outcome as in any way finished. That will not be possible, however, because we do not know who the respondents are and have no way to contact each person individually.
Thanks for the question,
Martie
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Martie...excellent article. I hope this can help change the status quo. I am going to send this to someone who is running for our state legislature because he used to be the head of exceptional children for our school district when my kids were still there. I know the man personally and I want to know his thoughts on this and what he intends to do to make changes for our kids in this state.
As a parent who has had both good and bad "outcomes", I really can see both sides. It is sad that we need a study to show that kicking kids out of school leads to a bad outcome.
As a parent who has had both good and bad "outcomes", I really can see both sides. It is sad that we need a study to show that kicking kids out of school leads to a bad outcome.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
Thanks, Martie. I know I've looked for studies that even just show graduation and employment rates and find very little. The docs won't answer such questions - I always figured it was due to poor prognosis.
My difficult child is one of the respondents who was too young to really tell. He's doing ok right now, but living in the barracks on base, eating every meal there, limited freedom to leave, etc, is a far cry from existing in the real world. Time will tell how the rest of the story plays out. He does, however, tell me that if I'd have left him to his bio parents way back when that he has no doubt he'd already have a rap sheet a mile long. If you do another study in 5 years, I'll answer again.
Thanks so much for this.
My difficult child is one of the respondents who was too young to really tell. He's doing ok right now, but living in the barracks on base, eating every meal there, limited freedom to leave, etc, is a far cry from existing in the real world. Time will tell how the rest of the story plays out. He does, however, tell me that if I'd have left him to his bio parents way back when that he has no doubt he'd already have a rap sheet a mile long. If you do another study in 5 years, I'll answer again.
Thanks so much for this.
dreamer
New Member
Martie, Thank you for doing this and also for shareing it here.- for letting us participate if we wanted and for allowing us to view results.
I know my daughter has been part of MANY MANY research studies, surveys and also clinical trials etc over the years. We have also been involved in many pilot programs and such. I used to be quite active as an advocate and lobbyist and how I have always always hoped that even if something did not help our daughter and or us at the time, maybe MAYBE we could still help in working towards makeing things better for those coming up behind us in this journey.
Thank you very much for your hard work! I am hopeful it will bring some help and open others eyes to the difficulties and problems at hand. We were honored to particpate!
I know my daughter has been part of MANY MANY research studies, surveys and also clinical trials etc over the years. We have also been involved in many pilot programs and such. I used to be quite active as an advocate and lobbyist and how I have always always hoped that even if something did not help our daughter and or us at the time, maybe MAYBE we could still help in working towards makeing things better for those coming up behind us in this journey.
Thank you very much for your hard work! I am hopeful it will bring some help and open others eyes to the difficulties and problems at hand. We were honored to particpate!
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