Ultimatum Given, now Trepidation....

[Mikey]

Thanks Kathy. Believe me, the car, the phone, it's all on the table now. Had his "handler" at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) not seriously intervened, he very well could have been informed tonight that he either needs to find a way to pay for all this stuff on his own by the end of the month, or lose it altogether.

Depending on how much of a jerk he was, he may have even lost it all tonight, and would only get them back when he found his own way to pay for them without our backing.

Yeah, like that's possible. :rofl:

I hear you. I was, and still am, on the same page as all of you. At this point, I'm simply waiting to hear what wonderful, earth shattering plans the docs at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) study have for my son that would cause them to chastise me for "letting my anger interfere with McWeedy's treatment".

I can't wait to hear this one. It should be interesting. I guess I can't blame them, though. It took McWeedy's prevous therapist nearly six months to finally see through the mask. His regular doctor still doesn't see it, since he's blinded by the fact that "it could be so much worse, and we just don't know it.

Love the guy; wish I could find some of the snake oil that lifted the veil from my eyes so he could have a swig as well. And some for the docs at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC), too. But hey, they're the "experts". Maybe they'll surprise me.

Then again, maybe not.

Wow, this night really bites <word changed due to filter >. Wish I was sleepy.....

Mikey

 

[kris]

<span style='font-size: 11pt'> <span style='font-family: Georgia'> <span style="color: #990000"> first there is no way they are going to consider him suicidal & admit him. one of the criteria for involuntary admission is expressing suicidal ideation at the very least & at his age they'd want to hear his *plan*. i believe she was blowing smoke to get YOUR cooperation.

since he's complying with-absolutely nothing i'd take the car & the phone now....not the end of the month. access to both are a privilege not a right. you are, quite frankly, enabling him to do exactly what he wants when he wants it.

earlier in the thread people said you are not following through with-promised consequences. you aren't. this kid needs to find his personal bottom & nothing that's going on is going to lead to that because you keep enabling him.

i think that program person was dead wrong. he'll do exactly what he's always done ~~~ what you say he always does ~~~ and shine her on. she'll think he's had a moment of enlightenment & he'll continue as he always has.

kris </span> </span> </span>

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

I'm with Kris on this.

Keep in mind, that whether his "deadline" to give you an answer had arrived or not, he certainly did not seem concerned in the least. And why would he? Something always comes up to where the deadline can be moved. The boy does not take you seriously. You have not given him a reason to.

He has 2 feet that work just fine. He can walk or pedal. He does not need that car. His attitude towards you alone would be reason enough to take shut off service to his phone.

We know you love him. Love him enough to stop enabling him. Hell hit bottom faster.

 

[TYLERFAN]

Hi Mikey:

I tend to agree with much of what the others have said.
How about if he misses curfew, he comes home to a door that is locked and he can't get in......miss curfew, stay elsewhere.....
I know this might be scary for you, but our little darlings can manage pretty well under the most bizarre circumstances.
Ever thought of just calling that cell phone company and having his phone line turned off? Your paying for it right?
What about the car? No payment=Repossession. Your paying for the insurance too? I wouldn't let him drive the car, especially when he is getting stoned and driving......if the car is in your name, an accident could result in horrific stuff......Put a club on the car.
Forcing him into rehab isn't even an option here at his age.....at 17, they can walk right out....and you are correct that if he doesn't want to get help....it won't help!
Have you gone to an NA meeting yet?

We are here to help you thru this Mikey. Praying that McWeedy grows a brain!

Blessings,
Melissa :angel:

 

[DDD]

He might be more participatory in "the program" if he is on his
own and needs money. Visiting the program with the comforts of
home to return to sounds like the easy way to supplement a wallet
that probably does not need supplementation. DDD

 

[Sunlight]

amen to what tyler fan said.

as for this part:
McWeedy is a master at making them all think that he's just a mild mannered, misunderstood, gentle soul who likes pot and has a nazi for a father and Lizzie Borden for a mother. That's all we hear; what a wonderful kid he is, how nice he is to work with, what a pleasant personality.


so true about ant as well. he had everyone thinking he was a nice guy with a nasty mom. I dont care what others thought. I am sure they realized his scams when he was locked up for two yrs.

take charge. I do think however a 930 curfew is too early for a kid his age.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do think however a 9:30 curfew is too early for a kid his age.</div></div> That was only for last night, so we could eat dinner together in a peaceful way. 11 is his normal weeknight curfew during the summer, 12 on Fri and Sat. However, even though McWeedy finally agreed to come home when I wanted, in the end he still ignored the timeline and went off into his own world (as he is usually wont to do).

And this is one small but definitive instance of the larger problem: McWeedy is trying to take something that has been neither offered NOR earned: trust, freedom, approval of his choices, and less scrutiny of his actions by his parents.

He has done nothing to warrant these privileges. He lies to get his way. He disappears and goes incommunicado for hours, only to come back and say "I was just playing some basketball" when I know for certain where he was. He has started smoking again - something he KNOWS his extremely hazardous to his health. He downplayed his drug use as "a little weed" when in fact I know it's a LOT of weed, probably mixed in with other stuff. And I know that he's involved in more than just using the stuff himself.

Yet, for some reason that only makes sense in the grapefruit he uses for a brain, he thinks he's entitled to the things I've listed above. He had those things once, when I didn't know what was going on. Too late to the game, I caught on to what he was doing, and cranked down pretty hard on his "rights". Then he learned how to fool and manipulate me and wife, and we eased up again - only to find that he was actually worse than before.

So now we have an simple, straight-forward rules. What hasn't been there up till now (as so many of you have pointed out) is the follow-through on the consequences. Because of that, he now fights the rules at every turn, and has assumed the position that HE decides how his life will go, and we are simply there to provide what he needs to pursue that life.

So okay, I agree with all of you. Over the last few days, I had a plan in place to deal with it. Three simple choices: get help and keep your privilges and your family; don't get help, but follow the rules (including sobriety) and you can stay until you finish school; or leave, and follow whatever path you wish on your own time, and with your own resources.

But somehow, that all got screwed up. Now I have to follow up with the Residential Treatment Center (RTC). If they really think they can get through to him, do I back off and let them try? Or do I move ahead and reassert the choices and force McWeedy to pick?

Mikey

 

[DDD]

You haven't mentioned wife at all. Is she on the same page? DDD

 

[Sunlight]

you are the parent. I would not be afraid to remove his car and phone if he cant follow a simple rule.

 

[Sunlight]

PS: Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is Residential Treatment Center
does he live there?
is he attending their program faithfully and complying?
are they getting any money for him to attend?

 

[meowbunny]

Mikey, therapists, counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists aren't gods. They don't know your son. You do. I would simply call the woman at RCT and say, "Sorry, but I don't have the time for your plan to work or not work. I need to do something now and I think I've come up with a course that may help my son."

You are good with words. Actually, you are excellent with words but, so far, that's all they are -- words. There is no follow through. Even if you agree to not tell him he is moving out when he turns 18 there is no reason to not take his "good life" away today.

The one thing people here have been telling for a long time is to take his phone and car. This is something you obviously have never bought into. Not sure why but that is your business, so I know I will quit giving you this advice.

As for trust, etc., it seems that all kids think they are entitled to those, especially older teens. They think they have the right to make decisions about how they live their life while the parents foot the bill. For the non-problem kids this isn't such a big deal. They'll falter but they won't fall. Our kids not only fall, they go swan dive over the cliff. Some of us are lucky enough to have a rope attached that stops the fall. Many of us aren't. However, few of our kids have made it without at least hitting their personal bottom.

My daughter seems to have hit her bottom when she joined the carny, left the carny, ended up homeless for a few days and finally journeyed into one of the most gang-ridden areas around here. It was her "scared straight" moment. She's not perfect now that she's back home but the idea of going on her own with no skills and no education has at least gotten her to try. McWeedy has no reason to try at all.

He hasn't experienced any hardship. He has parents who love him even if mad at him. He has a home and a room to go to at the end of his forays. He has food he can eat at time. Not only that, he has nice clothes, a car, a phone, probably an IPod or the like, a DVD player, etc. He's been given no reason to even try to change. He is a long, long way from falling.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

I'd start with the car and the phone, just because he does not respect your house rules. Never mind his 3 choices or the program, the car & phone together are a separate issue. Dr. Doobie can't call to say he will be late? Fine, give him a REAL reason not to be able to call. TURN OFF THE PHONE. He can't get home on time? Fine, give him a real reason not to get home on time. TAKE AWAY THE CAR THAT HE HAS NOT PAID FOR YET.

Then, you give him his options. You might go with something like this:

A- get help (Residential Treatment Center (RTC) program is a start, and if he can't remember to take 3 pills a day, he SURELY is not responsible enough to drive a car). When he gets help, LIST what the rules are pertaining to being a productive, polite family member. Let him EARN his privileges back. He doesn't get to start with them; he blew it. If he can be a good little Mc-no-weedy, then he can have his fun back.

B- Don't want help? Fine. Here are THE RULES to stay in the house until school is over. They include blah blah blah, thus and such. No, you will not have a phone. No you will not have a car. You get 3 hots & a cot. Earn your own extras.

C- Don't like either of these choices? Too tough for you? Get out. Leave the car keys here on your way. You may use Dancer's old pedal bike with the banana seat and the flowers on the basket.

See, whether the program people yell at you or not, it is your home, and if your boy doesn't want to go anymore, nobody is going to make him. You need to make that option look stellar. It is the best of the 3, but still shows him that he can no longer take you or his family for granted. Remember, you have another child to consider, and she does not need this.

 

[Mikey]

BBK, gotta hand it to you. You know how to say what I need to hear. I like that approach.

Funny thing, too. Just got called back by the folks at the medical study, who said pretty much the same thing. If his behavior is poor (whatever the reasons - drugs, ODD, cosmic rays, etc..), then don't make his life any easier than it has to be. Starting with the car and the phone. Can't really take away his iPod or his 'puter since he paid for those. But I did take away his internet connection because he was surfing for porn and drug websites.

I told this lady that while the drugs were a major problem, and probably either cause or enhance the other problems, I have to address the current crisis: I've lost control of my home to this neanderthal. And I have to get it back - NOW! I had a plan, and they asked me to ease up and give them a chance. Okay, so I pop the question today: what is your plan? Do you think you can help with the immediate issues? Will your "medical study" suffice for what McWeedy really needs? If not, tell me now so I can move on.

The program coordinator politely replied that she thought they could deal with it, albeit with some customization of the normal treatment plan in the study. And they want to try. So she's going to discuss this with the staff today, and get back to me within the next day or two (they want to get past today's meeting with McWeedy as well, now that they have a better picture of his homelife).

In the mean time, she recommended the same things you guys are suggesting. Use what I have to deal with the behavior problems that are right in front of my face. Get some control back over my house, and give them a day or two to see if they can truly help with the drugging within the context of the study, or decide if he needs more.

So now I have to go home, speak with wife to make sure we're on the same page, and start acting. Let's see how that goes.

ant's mom: the medical study is outpatient, but is held at an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) with outpatient facilities. The center itself specializes in treating children and adolescents, and I just found out it has one of the "true" lockdown facilities for adolescent substance abuse treatment. Is that what you were looking for?

Also, I don't know if he's complying with the requirements of the study because of the privacy rules. However, I can assume that he is (or they think he is) complying because they said they'd drop him from the program and notify us immediately if they found anything that was beyond their ability to deal with. I made a somewhat snide comment that went something like "you don't know what you're dealing with when it comes to my manipulative little pothead". Somewhat indignantly, the lady replied "I think you'd be surprised at what we know and understand". Not sure what that meant, if it was arrogance, hubris, or confidence.

And I guess I won't know because of the privacy rules. But so far, after nearly a month into the program, I've noticed only a decline, not even staying afloat. Maybe in a weird way, that is progress, in that he's either unwilling or unable to perpetuate the illusion any more? Maybe he's not getting worse, maybe he's just not covering it up as well as he used to.

I don't know. Still wish I had become a monk... :crazy:

Mikey

 

[Kathy813]

Mikey,

The people at the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) will not lose their homes if you get sued because you knowingly allowed a substance abuser to drive your car. If they think he needs a phone, let them pay for it.

We have all been there before. My difficult child comes across as a sweet young thing that would never do anything wrong. She has fooled many a therapist and counselor. She refused to keep going to the only one that saw through her act right away.

You have to do what you know is right. Your difficult child feels entitled to things because you have always provided them with no conditions. What has he ever done to earn these things? Why would he value them if he didn't do anything to earn them?

The last time we provided our difficult child with a phone was when she was 16 and I found a local drug dealer on her speed dial. I told her that I was not financing her connections to her druggie friends. After that, she either didn't have a phone or she paid for it herself. I found that you don't need credit for Metro PCS since you have to pay in advance every month. It also has unlimited local calls for about $45 a month so my difficult child can't screw it up. It was the perfect answer for my difficult child. She still uses them.

I would check on that sort of thing for your difficult child and if it is available tell him that he is old enough now to pay for his own phone. You can deactivate his line on your plan without getting hit with cancellation fees.

Show him that you mean business. He will not be motivated to change unless his situation changes.

by the way, does he have a job?

~Kathy

 

[Mrs Smith]

Hi Mikey,
I used to be a bit of a difficult child myself and to be honest with you, I think you should let him fall- now. Take control over the few things you actually do have control over (phone/car) and start hammering home the hard facts of life - actions have consequences. Some of us only learn the hard way. You'll never completely protect him from suffering, that's life. Better now than later.

PS - the frontal lobes of the brain, the seat of reason and judgement aren't fully developed until a person is in their mid 20's. Don't expect the lightbulb to go on any time soon.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

In the spirit of the last post by Mrs. Smith (love your pies, by the way)...

Mikey, the reason I keep "knowing what to say" is that I, too, was a difficult child of sorts.

I was thrown out on my duff without a pot to in or a window to carry it out of. I swear it helped me hit bottom faster. It put me in the 10 items or less express lane...

oh, and about being a monk, I feel ya. I kinda wish I were a nun.

 

[PonyGirl]

Hi Mikey, and wife,too! You're getting excellent advice from all our wonderful Warrior Parents here, and you know we all support you 100%

I don't have any other words of wisdom to offer, just wanted to let you know I'm still following, and you & yours are in my thoughts.

I found it really interesting, when Suz pointed out how you've changed in these last months, your response in relaying that yes, first you were full of Fear, and now you are full of Anger...Hey! You're in a Process! You're Going thru Stages!!

And I hope that soon, you will be in Acceptance.

Detachment is a skill we seem to acquire around here, shortly after we most desparately need it....

And don't be too shocked if you slip back into Fear now and then.

Also, I would tell you, I found defiance of my parenting within the counseling community, too. I had one counselor point out to me that my methods weren't working, so maybe it was time to try something different. My methods at that time were: difficult child is Grounded. Not allowed out to do anything with anybody. Had been grounded for about 2 years at that point. :crazy: I wasn't good at coming up with other consequences :crazy:

So, I let difficult child go free. Within 1 week, we picked him up off the sidewalk dead-drunk. I am not exaggerating. His BAL was .275. He was 14 years old. It was February in Wisconsin. Had we not found him, he could very easily have died.

You do what you know in your heart is right. Not saying all counselors are bad, or don't know their hole from a butt in the ground, but don't feel lonely either if you doubt what they are saying to you.

My difficult child always presented well. I've had more than one cop tell me, "He's courteous and polite." "He's friendly and well-behaved." Yeah, too bad he keeps breaking the law, huh!! I always took that with a grain of salt, and reminded myself it was better than having him punch out the police...

Gosh, the things we're grateful for... :wink:

You & wife are going to be entering into the worst of it, if you truly do hold up the consequences suggested here. difficult child will flip out in a huge way, because he's never ever had to face up to his actions like this before.

Stay strong. You ARE doing the right thing. Remember your Dancer. My easy child was my strongest help in remaining detached and firm with my difficult child. I truly believe today that my detachment is was saved difficult child's life.

Peace

 

[skeeter]

I don't care if his curfew was 6:30. He didn't come home when he should, his car and phone should be pulled TODAY.

He can earn them back by following the rules.

End of story.

 

[hearthope]

Mikey ~

All the advice you have been given that you still don't act on just shows us all that you are not ready for acceptance yet.

There is nothing wrong with that, we all progress at different speeds.

Keep in mind that most everyone here has been EXACTLY where you are right now.

We all had dreams for our kids, we all dealt with ignoring curfews, lots of us got the breath knocked out of us when we learned our kids were using drugs, the list goes on and on. There is nothing your son is doing that our kids haven't done.

It is okay that you are not ready, everyone is trying to show you what is going to /can happen if you don't take charge now.

They have all stood where you are standing ~ they have all had broken hearts and they have all had to watch their precious child that they love with all their heart destroy his/her future.

Everyone is trying to help you see what is happening so you can do something before it is too late...

We all had to learn to take that first step....the first step is the hardest.

Everyone is here for you.

Traci

 

[NOLA]

I just read through this 4-page account of "A Day in the Life of McWeedy" :reading: and devoured all of the very wise advice given. My actions (or inaction I should say) have pretty much landed my household in the same predicament & worse. The wheels have absoutely come off down here. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hot.gif

Mikey - who am I to give advice but take it from a fellow "all words & no actions" type of parent - they are RIGHT. We need to get with the program. (Believe me, I know it's easier said than done) What <span style="color: #000099">meowbunny</span> said about the therapists is so true - they are, in my opinion, temporarily blinded by the polite, intelligent & deceptive facade our teens manage to muster up while in their presence - we KNOW better.

I am in the same place you are - FURIOUS :grrr: while living with this 16-year old ingrate, formerly known as my son. The point is we have every RIGHT to be - it's time to pull the rug out. Rehab treatment/wilderness camp, yes, if you can afford it, do it. by the way, down here in the 3rd world part of the country, a 16 y/o can check himself out of treatment UNLESS they are court ordered into in-patient. We will be obtaining that shortly.

However, thanks to the parents here, in the meantime I have been given me a new sense of direction and much needed focus. I can't take my difficult children car away (he doesn't even drive yet) but I will certainly take away every other worldly 'thing' he enjoys because of my hard work.

Thank you one and all. :kisses: