Update and massive sibling rivalry

[Sister's Keeper]

I was just thinking about my own kids and my 9 year old would be mortally offended if he had to go to bed at the same time as the 6 year old. He is only "a kindergarten baby" after all LOL.

Incidentally, I have a snitch, too. It's a hard line to walk. You want your kids to tell the truth, and you want to know what is going on, especially when it pertains to somebody's safety or welfare, but on the other hand no one likes a snitch.

I think that you could also use the later bedtime to your advantage. Pull a little psychological manipulation, you know, "you are older, ready for more responsibility" yada yada, then explain to him that if he wants to keep this bedtime he has to prove that he is responsible enough for it by going to bed without fuss.

If I remember correctly your husband is the difficult one in this, in that he has trouble setting limits and sticking to them, but I think having a set bedtime routine, that the child is aware of ahead of time helps. You know, shower, brush teeth, 15 minutes of reading, drink and bathroom, then lights out at whatever time you determined. ...and stick to it, regardless of the pleas for another chapter, or "I need a drink!" I would also remove all electronics from both bedrooms. The American Academy of Pediatrics is firm on electronics being too stimulating and disrupting sleep.

I understand the desire to keep things fair, and kids love to cry "not fair!" That's also a difficult line to walk. You might put it to your husband that making a 5th grader go to bed the same time as a kindergartner really isn't fair.

 

[Copabanana]

prove that he is responsible enough for it by going to bed without fuss.

You might put it to your husband that making a 5th grader go to bed the same time as a kindergartner really isn't fair.

I love this way of looking at things. Collectively we are geniuses.

 

[Roxona]

If I remember correctly your husband is the difficult one in this, in that he has trouble setting limits and sticking to them.

Sister, you have no idea. LOL! When I first met him, the boys had TVs, iPads and all sorts of electronics in their rooms that he had bought them when their mother died. He felt so awful for their loss of her and hoped buying them everything in the world would ease their pain...plus, it kept them busy and made good babysitters! Oiy! After her death, he completely lost his mind and couldn't handle parenting them for a good six months. His late wife's family and his older kids stepped in to help a lot and were still heavily involved when I entered the picture.

He was never very good at being a parent (his words), and he admits he made a lot of mistakes with his older kids. He wasn't even sure he wanted more kids, but his second wife really wanted them, so he agreed because he didn't think it was fair for her (there's that "fair" word again). However, with all that has happened in our Shakespearean story, he really does want to be a good father, and even though the way I handle things seems very strict and regimented to him, he is trying hard to follow my lead and be supportive because he has seen a lot of positive changes in his younger boys. Changes he says he didn't think were possible.

That said, the last three years have been a like a game of Risk. Lots of strategy, bargaining and a few big battles. His guilt, sadness...and depression derail him from time to time, but on a whole he is becoming more consistent and supportive as the days go by. Slowly over time the TVs were removed, as well as the iPads and other electronics. Always I had to prove why, and sometimes even why wasn't good enough to permeate the guilt, so I would leave it for another day. Before, the boys did nothing but play with their iPads and watch TV. Now they have structured homework and reading time, afterschool activities, play time outside, chores, family game nights, family meals, iPad time after dinner, and bedtime routines.

Speaking of bedtime routines, my husband absolutely loved the idea of staggering their bedtimes with SS6 going to bed at 8:00 pm with reading time with dad until 8:30 pm, and SS10 going to bed at 8:30 pm with reading time with dad until 9:00 pm. He explained the change with the boys separately. SS10 was thrilled by the idea, so my husband told him it was my idea to give me brownie points. SS6 was not so thrilled and felt it was very unfair, so my husband did not tell him it was my idea to keep the blame on himself. Oh, the psychology we have to use to keep the peace! The results were beyond fantastic! Both boys enjoyed reading with their father. SS6 fell asleep before it was even SS10's time to go to bed. SS10 tried to have one small issue, but was redirected back to bed, and we didn't hear from him again. There was no fighting, no screaming, no hitting, no tantrums, no chaos...and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I hope we have a repeat tonight!

 

[Sister's Keeper]

I'm glad it worked. Who knows, maybe it played into the self esteem of the 10 year old and he felt special.

I have a lot of little kids (5 under the age of 10 ) so I hear a lot of "It's not fayerrrrr!" (say that in your best whine voice lol) I have given up trying to make everything equal and I just tell them, "life isn't fair." I think it is good for kids to understand that they aren't always going to get or have everything everyone else has. I try to keep things, basically, fair, in not showing favoritism, but there are times when keeping everything equal is just impossible or not feasible.

You know that there is always a chance you were having trouble at bedtime because SS10 just wasn't tired enough at his regular bedtime.

My daughter, now 8, wasn't a napper as a preschooler. She stopped napping at 2 and that was it. If she wasn't tired, she wasn't laying down and going to sleep. It drove the preschool nuts because all the other kids were asleep and she would lay on her cot and try to talk to her neighbors. However, she is out like a light by 8:30 every night.

My oldest (9) he is the kid that is up at 7am every morning regardless of how late he went to bed or how tired he was. We went to Disney and we had the kids out super late the night before, after midnight. & am rolls around, everyone else is snoring away, and he is sitting in front of the TV watching cartoons.

We learned the electronics thing the hard way. Our oldest had a TV in his room. I would get up in the middle of the night with the youngest and would hear the TV and realized he was sitting up half the night watching TV. He is also ADHD, and it just stimulated his brain so much he would never fall asleep watching it.

The other thing I was thinking, in terms of physical activity, and this is biased because I love tennis, is tennis. LOL. It is something that he and dad could do, just the 2 of them, where they wouldn't, necessarily need concrete rules, they could just hit the ball around, but would burn of steam and wouldn't require being able to participate in a group dynamic.

 

[Roxona]

Tennis is a good idea! I've been thinking about seeing if I can get some used rackets. We have new courts at our community park within walking distance, and it would be a fun after dinner activity in the summer. We also have a nice basketball area. I just got the boys a new basketball for Easter, so we could head out that way when we walk the dog. I can't play basketball per se, but I can play horse.

I completely understand about the whole staying up all night to watch TV. SS10 used to go downstairs after we went to bed to raid the snack pantry and play videogames all night. We had to install a sensor that would ring every time someone walked up or down the stairs to get him to stop. My 20 year old was the only one who could figure out how to slip by undetected. He found one spot where he could wriggle like a worm down the stairs. Seeing a 6'1" 130 lbs. male slithering down the stairs is too funny!!!

 

[Copabanana]

Tennis is a good idea!

I think so too. I am realizing in life that sometimes the whole point is just to do things that feel better and help us manage better, more constructively.

I love the idea of tennis because it has a reciprocal, yet competitive aspect. There are rules, he has to pay attention. He must conform. Yet aggression rules.

Seeing a 6'1" 130 lbs. male slithering down the stairs is too funny!!!

Funny!! This image really captures a lot of about our situations.

 

[pigless in VA]

Roxona, I've probably told you this before, but I totally get why your husband crashed and burned with the parenting after his wife passed. I did the same thing. You guys are making a lot of positive changes. I think your game of Risk will improve daily. I would so love to see J slithering down the stairs.

@Sister's Keeper Five under ten! You so need to give us a signature on this group of littles.

I totally agree with no screens in the bedrooms after bedtime. If you're going to be up and sneaky at least be reading a book.

 

[Roxona]

I totally get why your husband crashed and burned with the parenting after his wife passed.

I understand why he did too. I lost both of my parents tragically, so I think mourning, loss and how people grieve are something I have a great understanding of. I probably have more compassion for that than anything else in the world. I'm sorry you and your children had to experience this too.

Thanks for the positive comments and giving me a boost. Sometimes it's hard to see the tree through the woods.

 

[pigless in VA]

It's interesting how sometimes losses can bind us together. My SO had two of his relatives commit suicide, so he felt more comfortable with that type of death than most people would. He also suffered the personal loss of the death of one of his sons in house fire.

I'm sorry that you lost both your parents. I'm proud of you for lovingly raising some more children who clearly need you.

 

[Roxona]

Last night on the new plan worked pretty good again. There was some screaming and little bit of fussing, but they got to bed at their new times and stayed there. I'll count that as an okay win.

 

[Sister's Keeper]

Roxona, I've probably told you this before, but I totally get why your husband crashed and burned with the parenting after his wife passed. I did the same thing. You guys are making a lot of positive changes. I think your game of Risk will improve daily. I would so love to see J slithering down the stairs.

@Sister's Keeper Five under ten! You so need to give us a signature on this group of littles.

I totally agree with no screens in the bedrooms after bedtime. If you're going to be up and sneaky at least be reading a book.

Last night on the new plan worked pretty good again. There was some screaming and little bit of fussing, but they got to bed at their new times and stayed there. I'll count that as an okay win.

Pigless, it's not really so exciting. We have 2 bio kids M, my 8 year old daughter, and A, my 6 year old son. Then we are raising my sister's 3 kids (because she can't/won't get right) K, my 9 year old nephew, E, my 7 year old nephew, and H, my 4 year old niece. It's a full house here. LOL, but no crazy fertility or reality show stuff.

Roxona, I think that's a win, really. I used to watch the Super Nanny shows because when my nephews 1st came to live with us we had bedtime drama with the, now, 7 year old because he was used to sleeping in the bed with his great grandmother (whom they lived with before us) I just remember her rules about sticking to a bedtime routine and not reacting when they got out of bed and just putting them back in the bed silently.

Of course I did it with a 3 year old, I'm not sure how it would work with a 10 year old, but congrats on your success, I hope that you have more.

 

[Roxona]

Still, Sister, that's a bushel of kids! We have six all together, and I'm so thankful we only have three at home...and that the girls live with their mom. I've come to realize there's a reason why my high power only gave me one. I don't know why I didn't listen!

Of course I did it with a 3 year old, I'm not sure how it would work with a 10 year old.

It works in much of the same way. He freaks out and gets up out of bed, and I tell him to stop and go back to bed. The consequence is that if he gets out of bed again (except for going potty), he has to go to bed early the next night.

I forgot to mention another effect we have experienced with this change, is that SS10's behavior in school has been drastically better. We started giving him 5mg of Ritalin at about the same time, so scientifically I don't know if the medications or the bedtime change are having more of an effect. We started the medications over the weekend, but didn't see any measurable change. After Monday, Hubby wanted to up the dose to 10 mg, but I said no. School is a more structured environment than our home on the weekend, and I wanted to see how the entire week looked. He had a really good morning at school, but I wanted to see how the new night time routine helped too, so Hubby reluctantly agreed. SS10 had a perfect day at school on Tuesday, and Wednesday was good as well. So, interesting things are happening here, and I'm happy to report our early results.

 

[Sister's Keeper]

I'm glad things are looking up. It is good to hear good news. We found that medication really worked. I know a lot of people are against it. When our oldest came to live with us he was unmedicated. We didn't have behavior problems, per se, it was more of not doing/completing his work not actually acting out. The intuniv, and in a small dose, really helped that. In the beginning we offered a lot of positive reinforcement for completing work. Like if he had a week where he completed all his seat work (that was the major problem) we offered a reward on Friday. Maybe it was an extra hour of game or TV time. Maybe choosing a movie to watch, maybe going out for ice cream, but something that seemed spur of the moment. Maybe that could be something you could offer to help bolster your relationship?

Silly, I didn't think of consequences with the bedtime thing. I just remember carrying a 3 year old back to bed, and was thinking how I would do that with a 10 year old LOL.

 

[susiestar]

I think that tattling is a big problem at age 6 for most kids. I heartily subscribe to my mother's rule for ending/curtailing it. The tattler got the exact same punishment as the tattlee. If it is a serious health/safety violation like smoking found cigarettes or playing on the 2nd story roof, then it wasn't considered tattling, but otherwise, both parties got punished. It worked for my bro and I and for my kids and for niece and for the neighborhood kids if they tattled at my house. It requires follow through but the kids stop fairly quickly because what is the point if I am going to get the same punishment?

 

[KTMom91]

I have heard the most amazing tattles from first graders...and my standard response is, "Why would he/she do/say that?" I love it when they then tattle on themselves!

 

[pigless in VA]

Sometimes medication is key. I work with a child whom I will call Dale. Dale has zero impulse control. He's a very lovey kid, so that means a lot of hugging, some extremely silly behaviors, and very little focus in school. It's really easy to like this boy, because he is so sweet. It's also easy to get frustrated with him when he does things like hug every kid in the hallway, smooch kids on the cheek who have no desire to be kissed, copy Jack's stimming behaviors, and grab everything that is not glued down. One day he ate a glue stick. I worked with preschoolers for nine years, and never saw anyone eat a glue stick.

About a month ago, his parents tried him on a new medication. I am not privy to which one, but the results have been simply amazing as far as school goes. He is still the same lovey, funny, smart kid, but he all of a sudden has the capacity to think before he does something. He can stop himself before doing inappropriate things. He can eat lunch with his friends, act appropriately, and not land himself in a lunch detention the next day. For this particular kid, medication was essential.

 

[BusynMember]

Medication is necessary for some people to function. The key is the right medications. And some kids don't seem to do better on any, but then they could also have been misdiagnosed. Im glad the Ritalin is helping your child.

I am doing the happy dance that bedtimes are easier now. You got such good advice and kudos to you too!