What now

[Copabanana]

my ambivalence about her being on her own stems from her trying to live at school which was a disaster. She was very depressed , non functioning, missing tons of classes because

I was similar to this when I went to college the first time. I was way too young (barely 17) and emotionally unprepared. I flunked out the first semester to come home. And I hated it at home. But little by little I matured. Mainly I worked jobs, different jobs, in different cities. I went back to a commuter college. I went to a major university. Those problems that surfaced when I first went to college I have been working out my whole life. I will die with many of them. I don't think life is different for most of us.

I have parented with fear, lots and lots of fear. I get so scared when husband shows me she ordered a safe when he brings in the mail.

I am like this too. In the middle of the night last night I texted my son, that if he is using drugs he needs to call the sober living home, to see if they will accept him back, before he gets on the train to return. That if he can't go back there, there is no place in my town for him to come back to. That with me or in my properties is not possible. I feared a repeat of all of the times he squatted and trashed. I cannot bear it. I have PTSD. Don't you think its legitimate that we well up with terror, given all that has come before? Why be so hard on ourselves? Isn't this part of the problem, how we cut ourselves no slack for reasonable, understandable feelings?

I infected him with my fear. Forced a solution. I wanted to nip it in the bud.

I get this, totally. And this:

I wanted the fear to go away and made it worse

I am afraid of her talking to me and afraid of her not talking to me.

Here you mirror your daughter's situation. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is what is referred to as a double bind, in psychology. I do think there are ways out, but it takes work.

I wanted her gone. It's my knee jerk response to dealing with problems.

Me too.

came to the resolution that I clean his room and do his laundry for pay.

I think this is a great example of what I mean by coming up with a compromise. The thing is, your daughter seems unwilling or unable to communicate with you sufficiently to collaborate on a solution. So that means you would have to come up with them yourself, until she is a willing participant.

seen her through rough, rough times of years of eating disorders and depression, who tends to take over, who overruns her at times, who knows her and loves her

at age 16, I would hold her and tell her I would hold her long enough to "thaw her out".

The intensity and strength of the emotional connection for each of you makes it so very, very hard and scary to give up, even a little bit. Can you see how it would be for her? But this is the task at hand. This is the eye of the storm. Where is all of the power and possibility. How to hold onto each other, but move to the next phase.

she probably does need the push out of the nest. But I would like it to be with love , in support of her needs and wants, not as a punishment.

Why not create this? Why not have that to be your intention? Why does it have to be in anger, reaction, or as a punishment? Why not help her create a loving next step for her? The mental image right here of preparing for a wedding. Why not create a ritual, like the preparation for a wedding? Created over a longish period? 6 months? 9 months?

In my generation girls (although not me) had hope chests where they began to prepare for their wedding as adolescents.

You know those beautiful montages with color palettes on google images for wedding preparations?

While the comparison is not 100 percent, there are elements. Help her create and imagine her next step, but with the opportunity for a dry run, to improvise, change, re-fashion the elements, before there is the risk, and she feels pushed out of the nest. Maybe this is what you need too.

There could be a number of variations of her dreamed next step. At first, only in a montage, imagined. I am thinking now of a life I always wanted. I wanted always to live internationally. I would have wanted to teach English in a foreign country where they supply housing.

I would love to do this for me, right now. To create montages (and feelings) about powerful, complete, nurturing scenarios I can create in my life, post Coronavirus. I will be able to do very little now. But what I can do right now has power. Because I would be living through a situation where I feel very little range of actual possibility through empowering myself and my sense of my future.

Right now she will not be cooperative with you. But maybe some variation of this you can start doing alone. You can start imagine ways that she can leave, that would fill you with joy, pride, and connection. You can create in yourself the next step. You can bulk up so that you have an alternative to the fear and dread that grips you. Right now we are loading our present with fear from the past. It doesn't have to be that way. We can identify those beliefs from the past that trigger us, and we can decide to live from others that we create to supplant them.

It would take work, but that is what I am trying to do in another area of my life. There is no reason I can't do this in relation to my experience with my son. I can't control what he does or doesn't do. But I can decide for me.

 

[BusynMember1]

I just have one more suggestion. You expressed yourself so well. Thanks for explaining. Now I'm going to chime in. Take what you need and leave the rest.

Medication for mental illness, and your daughter is definitely mentally ill, is often a necessity, not a choice and certainl not the same as using drugs like pot or cocaine. I have had to use medications and was pleased that I could function again without feeling high.

It is not up to us to play doctor and tell our kids how to treat their illnesses and to date there is absolutely no evidence that natural remedies help especially severe depression. And eating disorders are very serious.

I don't mean to be hard, but if my mother had sort of shamed me for my antidepressant when I was such a total mess over Kay, I would have flinched in shame and pulled way back from ever telling her about my pain again. I may have even distanced myself from her in all ways. I was listening to a psychiatrist who turned out to be great!!! Mom is my Mom. She is NOT a doctor and does NOT know about depression. Nor do you. Even. If you think you do. Even if you read articles or books. I did too and only medication helped my depression. I had been too sad to even cook a meal which is not like me. I didn't work. Please don't judge. Your daughter did it her way and must get healthier HER way. You are NOT in control of this. Or should not be in my opinion.

I would back off of telling her how to manage her healthcare. Daughter was being responsible by taking care of herself. Let her be.

I know that "strong" mothers of adult kids tend to clash with their kids a lot. Did you want your mother to tell you how to handle your healthcare at your daughters age? Would you not have felt resentment and the urge to back off because your mother was treating you as if she knew even more than a doctor? That she was always in your way? Scolding you? Lecturing you? The more we try to mother our grown kids in my opinion the more they back away. It turns them off. Don't overly mother her if you want her trust at all. She isn't perfect. But none of us are either. Including me!!!!

On the illegal stuff, it is up to you how you deal with that. It's your house.

Sending love and prayers. And the hope that everything works out in God's way.

 

[WiseChoices]

I was similar to this when I went to college the first time. I was way too young (barely 17) and emotionally unprepared. I flunked out the first semester to come home. And I hated it at home. But little by little I matured. Mainly I worked jobs, different jobs, in different cities. I went back to a commuter college. I went to a major university. Those problems that surfaced when I first went to college I have been working out my whole life. I will die with many of them. I don't think life is different for most of us.
I am like this too. In the middle of the night last night I texted my son, that if he is using drugs he needs to call the sober living home, to see if they will accept him back, before he gets on the train to return. That if he can't go back there, there is no place in my town for him to come back to. That with me or in my properties is not possible. I feared a repeat of all of the times he squatted and trashed. I cannot bear it. I have PTSD. Don't you think its legitimate that we well up with terror, given all that has come before? Why be so hard on ourselves? Isn't this part of the problem, how we cut ourselves no slack for reasonable, understandable feelings?
I get this, totally. And this:
Here you mirror your daughter's situation. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is what is referred to as a double bind, in psychology. I do think there are ways out, but it takes work.
Me too.
I think this is a great example of what I mean by coming up with a compromise. The thing is, your daughter seems unwilling or unable to communicate with you sufficiently to collaborate on a solution. So that means you would have to come up with them yourself, until she is a willing participant.
The intensity and strength of the emotional connection for each of you makes it so very, very hard and scary to give up, even a little bit. Can you see how it would be for her? But this is the task at hand. This is the eye of the storm. Where is all of the power and possibility. How to hold onto each other, but move to the next phase.
Why not create this? Why not have that to be your intention? Why does it have to be in anger, reaction, or as a punishment? Why not help her create a loving next step for her? The mental image right here of preparing for a wedding. Why not create a ritual, like the preparation for a wedding? Created over a longish period? 6 months? 9 months?

In my generation girls (although not me) had hope chests where they began to prepare for their wedding as adolescents.

You know those beautiful montages with color palettes on google images for wedding preparations?

While the comparison is not 100 percent, there are elements. Help her create and imagine her next step, but with the opportunity for a dry run, to improvise, change, re-fashion the elements, before there is the risk, and she feels pushed out of the nest. Maybe this is what you need too.

There could be a number of variations of her dreamed next step. At first, only in a montage, imagined. I am thinking now of a life I always wanted. I wanted always to live internationally. I would have wanted to teach English in a foreign country where they supply housing.

I would love to do this for me, right now. To create montages (and feelings) about powerful, complete, nurturing scenarios I can create in my life, post Coronavirus. I will be able to do very little now. But what I can do right now has power. Because I would be living through a situation where I feel very little range of actual possibility through empowering myself and my sense of my future.

Right now she will not be cooperative with you. But maybe some variation of this you can start doing alone. You can start imagine ways that she can leave, that would fill you with joy, pride, and connection. You can create in yourself the next step. You can bulk up so that you have an alternative to the fear and dread that grips you. Right now we are loading our present with fear from the past. It doesn't have to be that way. We can identify those beliefs from the past that trigger us, and we can decide to live from others that we create to supplant them.

It would take work, but that is what I am trying to do in another area of my life. There is no reason I can't do this in relation to my experience with my son. I can't control what he does or doesn't do. But I can decide for me.

Love this, Copa. We did this for college. I will see how things go and how far she is willing to have me be part of the process

 

[Copabanana]

I will see how things go and how far she is willing to have me be part of the process

Wise. Think about this by yourself for now. Imagine scenarios where you might feel happy, joyful, optimistic, complete, with your daughter independent and apart from you. Right now, I don't think I would try to involve her. I would try to back off, and let this cool off.

She seems not to respond well at all to you asking things of her, especially when she is conflicted, and she is. Your attempts to support her seem to trigger her, and she turns them around to hurt you.

I would wait for her to come to you. On her terms. She will probably not raise moving out, but weeks from now, in a tranquil moment, you will know when it is right. Or she may say something, who knows, phrasing it as something negative about you, how you won't let her move out, or something equally ridiculous and that may be your jiu jitsu moment, when you turn it around to your advantage, taking her up on it. That indeed you want to help her, and you will.

Right now I think the work is yours to do in yourself, with yourself. I am reading an excellent and very helpful book right now. It's not about adult kids or kids at all. It's called: How to Turn your Money Life Around, The Money Book for Women, by Ruth Hayden.

Why do I think it might be helpful for you?
She has a paradigm whereby she helps women take control of their lives (by taking responsibility for their decisions.) You do this by confronting the legacy of the past, legacies which still confine and run us.

Here are some chapter headings: What's wrong with me? How did I get this way? Why is money so hard for me? No matter what I do it does not work. No more! It's my life, I get to decide. Someday is here. I'm in charge. Yes I am.

After I complete the program for money, I am going to do it about other areas of my life. I don't see why it wouldn't work about our relationships with our children.

 

[FindingSerenity]

Wise Choices- My son has been out of our home since just before turning 19- now 23. He was using drugs in our home, 99% lying, constant chaos and confrontation, refused to follow any rules, only thought of himself....yadda yada yada the whole addict profile. I have heard EVERY one of the excuses above plus some. LOL We told him he could not stay in our home anymore because we could not abide all of the above. Currently he is homeless with no car, and no phone, and a jail record because we cannot fix his problems or behavior and he has chosen not to seek help although he has every resource offered to him for help. We stepped back and let it happen.He didn't need our help to choose drugs and doesn't need our help to decide to stop using. Yesterday he showed up at our door and asked if he could have a ride to probation which is 20 miles walk each way (he has walked numerous times when he can't get a ride-ie getting out of jail and going to probation visits.) I took him to his probation visit in the BACK of our truck bc who knows where he has been and if he has covid. I will say currently he is living downtown in a hotel free bc the city rounded up all the homeless people and gave them a hotel!!! He has a free bus pass too! Addicts are SO crafty and resourceful- if you put them in a town across the country- they could find the drugs they wanted in 2 seconds. I realized I was working harder on fixing his life and problems than he was. Why would i DO that? I didn't cause it, I can't control it (that is a BIG one) and I can't cure it. I sure as heck will not let him near us during this pandemic. Our lives as just as important as his. It's tough as heck but his rock bottom has not been reached and it may never be reached. All I know is that I could no longer endure the constant chaos, lies, anger, fighting and drama, and inconsideration that came with him living in our house. I physically and mentally can't do it, and life is too short to have to live like that. I just keep going to my NAR anon group - now online and it helps so much. hard situation but to me- you have to help yourself first before you can help others. Our lives are just as important and we deserve to have a good life. Good luck. It's so tough.