Wondering how I am doing!

Lil

Well-Known Member
Echo, I'm so sorry to hear about your visit...or lack of a visit.

Truthfully, if my son goes to jail at some point, I don't know what I'll do. I tell myself I won't visit, that he's been warned he'll be on his own, but I think that's more fear than strength. I don't think I could stand to see him there. I think, if I had to go see my son in jail I'd either smack him or just cry.

I do, however, think that you are strong...stronger than me. I know this will be terribly hard for you but I believe you will get through it. I hope that it all goes well.

Due to the buildings being almost 100 years old there is no way to install air conditioning.

Honey, is the new prison like this too? This sounds like you're talking about the old prison. It made perfect sense for MSP to be awful, since it was built in the 1800's, but the new prison is like 10 years old.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
The inhumanity is incredible. Our jail releases inmates at midnight the first minute they can be released. No money no transportation Just get off the property in ten minutes.

Wow, that is harsh! I have an offender right now who is past his parole date but they wont release him because he has no home plan. If they 12/12 their sentence (completely finish) we will put them on a bus to the city they fell from. Granted, from there they are on their own.

No honey, the new prison is air conditioned. Im talking about Algoa which was built in the early 1900's. Its a quirk to this prison, not indicative of every institution in the state. Most of the office areas are cooled by window units. As my office is around 1000 square feet, I have a small "central air" unit. Its annoyingly funny because my office is at the end of the hall from the cells on the second floor so my door will open randomly throughout the day for a few seconds as an offender gets a taste of the a/c! Honestly, I wish they would just step in, close the door, and tell me that they are cooling down for a minute. Worked too long at a maximum security institution and every time the door opens but I don't see a person come to my desk I HAVE to check! No, I cant see the door from my desk.
 

Jabberwockey

Well-Known Member
You may be that person for some of us mothers Jabber, and for that, I am grateful. Keep on trying to help, I'm sure it makes an enormous difference to some people.

That's what keeps me going here! You just have to give up on the noting of helping everyone or even a specific person. The best feeling I've ever had from work was when an offender saw me at Wal Mart and thanked me for helping him. I didn't recognize him but apparently at one point I had said the right thing, shown him compassion, or just treated him like a human when no one else would. That was when I decided to quit trying to change the world so to speak, and just try to give them a good example and be helpful since that seems to be what works.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Im talking about Algoa which was built in the early 1900's.

Huh. Just goes to show you can learn something new every day. I never knew that prison was that old.

A lot of institutions in the US are very old and as a result were built when they were intended as "penitentiaries" not "correctional facilities". When punishment was the goal instead of rehabilitation the facilities were never planned with any degree of comfort...or even humane treatment...in mind.
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
that was such a helpless feeling

yes, that is a lot of it...the helplessness. I have spent my conscious life trying hard to not be helpless, and here it is delivered to me anyway. I sometimes get angry at Difficult Child for the positions he puts me in.

I was the criminal. A room full of distraught, scared, grief stricken parents, relatives and friends and we're treated with disdain and a lack of common courtesy that I had not encountered before. I never went back, for me it was the stuff of bad T.V.

Yes, this is definitely the case. I was the criminal, as I find I often am in my interactions with systems around Difficult Child. That is hard. As with you, RE, I may well never go back.

I sat in that courtroom and cried for a long time.......I never do that kind of thing, I am someone who has enormous propriety and crying in public is not something I do..

I am very proper too, RE, in public. And I don't cry often. That was hard for me. I totally get what happened to you in court.

I don't think nuns wear open-toed shoes.

I love your ever practical Welsh approach!

The frustration of this non-visit would have led me to tears. I can be led to tears by the frustration of not being able to remove the packaging from something or not being able to get the lid off a jar, so driving miles to see my son and then being stopped because my toes were visible would have tipped me over the edge... a long way over the edge I think.

Yes, I can also come to tears of (it sometimes feels like rage) frustration over things that ...frustrate me. Add some emotional overtones and a generous dose of wasted time and effort plus a dollop of public humilation...and we are off and running.

What books has he read lately?

Great question! He read Unbroken, then asked for a detective novel in a series called Spenser for Hire (I am not much of a light reader but at one point I read all of those and loved them) so I sent him the first one, then his dad sent him Boys in the Boat, which is similar in length, tone, fact-based and triumph of flawed people over adversity...and is just a great gripping story.

He can't usually read a whole book. Often our 5 minutes on the phone are spent with him excitedly discussing a new chapter. So that has been great.

It is so unusual a way to be treated, when we go to see someone in jail. Before I went there, I was someone's mom, or someone's wife, or the lady who made such good brownies. But when I got there, no one even smiled at me, Echo

Yes, exactly. We become ciphers. We lose our humanity. And that is terrifying and angering, and a time that we are already scared, sad, and a bit pissed off. And vulnerable. Which I hate.

Oh, wait. This isn't very cheerful. Well, that's alright, Echo.

This encapsulates why I love you, Cedar. Your stream of consciousness in typing is just fantastic, and makes me feel like your sister.

The inhumanity is incredible. Our jail releases inmates at midnight the first minute they can be released. No money no transportation Just get off the property in ten minutes.

Our jail does that also. Difficult Child has been released at midnight with no shoes. The jail is just off a highway, about 10 miles from town. I think they MAY give him a token...but at least once he was released after the bus stopped running. It is insane.

terrified helplessness

Yes, COM. Terrified helplessness, like a mouse in front of a snake.


So court was , I think, good yestarday.

My SO, one of my younger sons (the other one is out hiking the Appalachian Trail for 2 weeks, which I think is very cool, and Difficult Child's twin is starting a teaching job in Phoenix), my ex husband (Difficult Child's dad) and his new, very nice but somewhat ditzy wife all came. The PD was VERY creative, and sat us down in all our supportive familiness, with the DA. Apparently our city has a mental health pathway which, IF the DA agrees, the felony charges are dropped, the "perp" (we'll call Difficult Child the perp for fun) stays in jail until a bed in the system opens, and there are a series of houses throughout the city with a few of these people and a case worker in them. The DA sets the rules (in this case with our input), and the perp appears in court at first every 2 weeks with his PD and a summary from the house manager addressing behavior and compliance with the rules. Poor performance = return to jail for a weekend or more. Good performance=longer gaps between visits. They can be "sentenced" to these houses, which are not locked down and which require jobs, attendance at counselling, drug testing, etc. for at least 2 and as much as 5 years, and there is a step up in responsibility and autonomy.

We sat in court and saw several of the other "perps" come through with their reports, some good and some bad. It as nice in that the courtroom sheriffs and staff seemed to know and welcome each one.

The DA agreed, which I think was masterful of the PD. Now the victims have to agree. According to the DA, since Difficult Child has agreed to potentially stay in jail LONGER THAN HE MIGHT IF HE WENT STRAIGHT TO TRIAL in order to get into theis system, he thinks the victims will agree and if not he can possibly override them.

It as a very very bright two hours in the history of my intersections with the court system. eVen if nothing pans out I felt really good about the PD and the DA, and my family (although ex kept weeping and his wife would rub his arm...I hate that. the weeping. I have nothing against men weeping, but he does it INSTEAD OF EVERY PLAYING A ROLE EVER. Thats all. Put some skin in the game and THEN you are entitled to weep. But I digress, and sound bitter! see, Cedar, I can also free associate.)

so that is where we are. I wish for all of us that we could find what sounds like is out there for our Difficult Child.s It sounds a bit like Oz, so we shall see, but this moment of hope, and the good intentions of the PD and DA, who normally do NOT work together but did yestarday, we lovely to see.

Echo
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Echo...I am so glad to hear all of this. So glad.

our city has a mental health pathway which, IF the DA agrees, the felony charges are dropped, the "perp" (we'll call Difficult Child the perp for fun) stays in jail until a bed in the system opens, and there are a series of houses throughout the city with a few of these people and a case worker in them. The DA sets the rules (in this case with our input), and the perp appears in court at first every 2 weeks with his PD and a summary from the house manager addressing behavior and compliance with the rules. Poor performance = return to jail for a weekend or more. Good performance=longer gaps between visits. They can be "sentenced" to these houses, which are not locked down and which require jobs, attendance at counselling, drug testing, etc. for at least 2 and as much as 5 years, and there is a step up in responsibility and autonomy.

Thanks be to the Universe, our Higher powers, all things bright and beautiful, everything that is good and pure, and to God.

This is an excellent solution to the problem...why can't (oh why oh why) we have THIS throughout the country?

It as a very very bright two hours in the history of my intersections with the court system. eVen if nothing pans out I felt really good about the PD and the DA, and my family (although ex kept weeping and his wife would rub his arm...I hate that. the weeping. I have nothing against men weeping, but he does it INSTEAD OF EVERY PLAYING A ROLE EVER.

yes, and I'm sure that is why you aren't married to him anymore. Another reason to be thankful. (she says in a snarky manner...: )

Please keep us posted on how this goes...we need to "organize" and make this happen elsewhere.

Just so good that it's happening for YOU and Difficult Child...right now.
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
(she says in a snarky manner...

:tongue:

Thing about this program is...you can only get into it if you are in jail!!!!! EVen if you are out on bail you aren't eligible. How crazy is that ? but wait...maybe....if this were available....THEY WOULDN"T COMMIT CRIMES IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

but for now, I'm happy it exists at all.

Maybe they need to get there from jail to appreciate it.

Turns out I am not as smart as I thought (you and I share this trait, COM), and I have a lot to learn. I'm learning.

Love and hugs to you all today,

Echo
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
That is most excellent news, Echo! It sounds like everybody is on the same page (including ex, who truth be told sounds like maybe a bit of a wanker right now) and I am hoping it comes through for him. It sounds promising. !I am glad you at least had had a positive experience with the criminal justice system today!
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
That does sound like a good program Echo. I'm really glad it seems to be gong well. Wishing continued luck in that. I reread your earlier posts...I couldn't remember why your son was in jail...and it really doesn't sound like jail is where he belongs, so this sort of program could be exactly what he needs.
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
Hi Lil,

he has been in jail before for summary charges...retail theft, obstruction of highway, contempt of court. BEcause this stuff piles up he was once in jail for about 4 weeks.

This time he attempted to rob two people leaving a movie theatre. He told them he had a knife, which fortunately he did not. In the police report he was apologizing even as he got into the van.

Part of me is like...he assaulted and terrified two nice people on their way home from a date. Hell yeah he deserves to be in jail.

Part of me is like...yeah, apologizing and feeling ashamed is part of Difficult Child's immature impulse control MO. I can imagine that he scared even himself.

Whatever. You can't go around mugging people. So I'm ok with him being in jail, and yes, this program is really pretty great if he can just get a bed.

Thanks for caring enough to read back and try to figure it out...that means a lot to me.

Echo
 

AppleCori

Well-Known Member
I am rooting for your son to get into that mental health program. It sounds like a great option! I wish we could figure out how to do a better job with getting people mental health services, especially those in the jail system.
 

nlj

Well-Known Member
I wish we could figure out how to do a better job with getting people mental health services, especially those in the jail system.

It's the same here in the UK. I worked with ex-offenders for a while (as a Literacy and Numeracy tutor as part of a rehabilitation programme). Most had drug habits that they had acquired in jail. Many were weak characters who seemed easily led. I'm no expert in mental health but I think many of the people I worked with had a variety of mental health issues that had probably worsened during their stints in jail. I didn't meet any that I didn't like as people, some were great characters with interesting stories to tell (and write about!). Many had wasted talents. A whole sad scenario. What's the answer? No idea.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I think many of the people I worked with had a variety of mental health issues that had probably worsened during their stints in jail
In a State where I have worked, NIJ, the health conditions became so bad that the Courts stepped in. All Prison Health and Mental Health Departments were placed in Conservatorship. Salaries were raised a hundred percent and staff was doubled. When the Presiding judge believed that the State was playing games, he ordered the prisons to reduce their population so as to not deprive those already incarcerated of necessary health care services. And they had to let go of I think it was 35,000 inmates. And for now at least they are prohibited from incarcerating more prisoners than can adequately be treated.

The upshot, 20 years later, is that the mental health care is pretty good, and many inmates get better in prison, at least while they are. And I agree with you. Many are delightful people.

The moral of the story is that services can be improved if there is the will to do so. And that it is not rocket science. People improve when they get the treatment they need. It is a matter of priorities.

***Echo, your grace and strength and love and dignity are a model for all of us. That you have shared your experience with us, strengthens me in my resolve to be the best I can be, regardless of what may come for us. I hope what your son needs comes through for all of you, and for all of us.
 
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Marcie Mac

Just Plain Ole Tired
I always went to see Danny - the most frustrating thing about it was in Ca. because of some law in Juvy, the minute it gets overcrowded they move them. Can't tell you how many dang times I went into LA waited in line, only to find out he was moved to another facility -in the middle of the night sometimes. No call, no notification. And needless to say, his medications ALWAYS managed to disappear.
 

Nature

Active Member
Hi Echo,

I always seem to catch up after the fact but can so relate to the shoes story.

A few years ago,my son was incarcerated in a US Detention Centre for 3 years (I'm in Canada).He was on holidays with family members and disappeared. Days of hellish worry as I remember it as we had no idea what happened to him. Eventually, a call came from thousands of miles across my country from someone who passed along the message that he was in a California Detention Centre. Months later, I visited him for the first time at Christmas. It was extremely difficult to get leave from work as I hadn't wanted to tell anyone the reason for my trip and could only get 4 days Leave of Absence with no pay. Visiting is only allowed every second day so I had to visit the day my plane arrived, rushing from the airport to hotel to drop off luggage and straight to the prison where I waited outside for over 2 hrs before being allowed in. I too had been so careful to go over all the literature of what was allowed and what wasn't. They refused to allow me to wear a business type jacket where the website had stated ladies could do so, I never wear those but it said sweaters were not allowed. They also had issues with the wool dress I wore and several had a discussion if I were to be allowed in or not. I wanted to cry as not only was I missing days pay, travelled thousands of miles, plus had to pay for hotel but at that moment I may not be able to see him. Reading your post I understood your feeling of helplessness and frustration. In the end, they let me in and although the website stated if there were too many visitors they would ask some to leave depending on time travelled to get to the prison. I was asked to leave after 1/2 hr even though I had read I would be allowed 2 hrs. The next time I was allowed to go the time also was cut short as it was the Christmas season. I had gone down really early to make sure I would get to see him, again waited 2 hours in line but then made the mistake of going to the ladies room when I entered and as a result had to get back in line. Then they were full so I was asked to return that evening. When I emerged it was dark and I found myself stranded in unfamiliar surroundings. Not the safest place to be in LA whereas it seemed fine in the daytime it was a scary place to be at night time. I had walked the mile from my hotel earlier that day. I came home dejected and sad as I only saw him for a total of hour despite the thousands of dollars I spent. I felt your pain when you described your sadness sitting in your car. I'm sorry if I hijacked your post as this gave me a chance to tell of my experience whereas I've never told anyone about that experience. I just wanted you to know I understood your pain and frustration when your described your sadness in your car.
As for the update I am wishing the best for your son and all of you. I hope that he is allowed to attend that facility. The fact that he is willing to stay in jail for a possibility of a placement shows he perhaps wants to receive help and walk a different path. I will be thinking of you both. Hugs to you.
 

Echolette

Well-Known Member
Echo, how are you? How is your son doing? I think about you and hope you are well. I miss your posts.

Copa,

I am here. I log on and read through things sometimes, and when I think I have anything to offer I chime in. Mostly I don't have much to say. My younger boys are getting older, they will graduate from high school in two weeks and leave home at the end of the summer. My ex and I are pals. MY SO and I are settled and pretty calm. I go to work. I run, I go to the farmer's markets, I feed the people I love. I'm more comfortable now with being committed to those things as part of a whole life for me, rather than distractions. There is nothing more valuable to me than spending a Saturday afternoon preparing food for that day and for the week for the people I love.

My son...well...things haven't gone well there. He has spent the last year in jail. He did get transferred to mental health court, and once there was a bed in an inpatient facility he was transferred there. He ran away once...twice...three times. His public defender walked the streets looking for him. Their caseworker drove him back to the facility and sat with him. The facility took him back...but not the fourth time. That was in September. So a warrant was issued, he was picked up for public urination, booked, and went back to jail. Long story short the same thing repeated itself in April...discharged to detox, thrown out for smoking pot with his roommate, on the streets in our fair city, went to a recovery house, left, went back...and on and on. Once again, a bench warrant for his arrest (issued this morning).

He was very sweet in jail. He called for 5 minutes a day. I took his calls most days. He seemed clear, and sane. PDDIsh, but sane. He had some insight, and some aspirations. He read a lot of books (reading was hard for him). He got a job washing dishes. Even when he knew he was getting released and wouldn't be there to get paid, he kept going because he said it helped pass the time and he liked being useful.

I saw him when he was between placements, sort of on the lam on the streets. He is skinny, dirty, and scared. He covers it with his wide goofy grin. He declined a ride. He declined money. He accepted some magazines and a sandwich and a kitkat bar.

I can feel myself once again in the grip of the widening gyre. The fearful and bottomless sadness that can consume us. I am not consumed, but it is a struggle to push it off. I ache for him, for his lostness, his hopelessness, his foolishness, his terrible decisions. Mentally ill, addicted, slow processing, habitual slacker liar and thief. Thats my boy. He can't see his way out. His last facebook post was "I am waiting for a subway to nowhere." I am just in suspension, once again wondering if he is alive, knowing there is nothing to be done.

So that is where I am. I guess...for the newbies...all I can say is that I am alive. I have hours and days of joy, people I love. I love him. I miss him. I fear for him. But ....mostly...those things have their place and I can go on with my work and my family and the farmers markets and meal prep and the running and the smiling at the other people I love. It is what it is. I think he knows I love him. That has to be enough for now.

Thank you for asking, Copa. I just saw your post today...it is on the second page on my screen, and I had completely missed it. I've admired your personal and unique journey. You bring a lot to this place.

Echo
 

SeekingStrength

Well-Known Member
I ache for him, for his lostness, his hopelessness, his foolishness, his terrible decisions. Mentally ill, addicted, slow processing, habitual slacker liar and thief. Thats my boy. He can't see his way out.

.....yes

saw him when he was between placements, sort of on the lam on the streets. He is skinny, dirty, and scared. He covers it with his wide goofy grin. He declined a ride. He declined money. He accepted some magazines and a sandwich and a kitkat bar.

I sure hope you keep getting to see him and he takes sandwiches and KitKat bars. Da#@, what a thing for a mother to go through but thankfully, his mom was there.

Hugs, Echo. Please check in when you can. I miss you.

Your posts are so valuable. I will remember you and your boys in my prayers tonight.
 
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