Your feedback please

[Beta]

I have been out of contact with our son, Josh, for two weeks until last week. It always happens this way. I go for two or three weeks, and then I start talking myself into trying to reach him again. He eventually responds with abusive speech as below: (These are direct quotes from today)
"How does it feel to have failed at everything you ever tried to do because your a fool?"
"Why doesn't your family talk to you, stupid ."
"I'm going to guess like everyone else they realized your a cancer of a human being."
"Nothing but a lying coward. I hope you both die. I mean it"
"Coward ."
"Just a lying whore."
"Kill yourself."
"I wish I could cave your f******* face in selfish ."
"I wish I could punch you in your ugly old face."

Okay--if your child was saying these things, what would you do? I'm embarrassed to have even written the things he says to me and my husband. I've tried to detach, but then I start thinking about his going hungry and being on the street, ending up in jail, ending up dead, and I cave in. Do any of you experience this type of abuse from your kids?
I have begged him to leave Denver and to accept some shelter from us, but he refuses and says the types of things above. What is wrong with me that I keep going back for more abuse? My husband gets frustrated with me, and I can't blame him.

 

[BusynMember]

Wow. I never heard anything even close to that. Im sorry. Very hurtful. No excuse.

I would not be able to maintain contact if that were going on. He can get a food card and go to food pantries and he will eat.

I feel you may benefit from therapy for codependency. Hugs!!! Please be good to yourself. Listen to your husband who is kind to you.

 

[Beta]

SWAT, thank you for your feedback. Yep, I think I am definitely co-dependent. I know I'm the one who needs to change. It's just so hard.

 

[RN0441]

Please remove this foul person from your life. For now.

You don't have to decide on forever or write the end of the story.

I love my son to the moon and back but there is NO WAY I would allow him to speak to me like that ever.

I love him unconditionally but have not always LIKED him.

I do not know if I could love someone that talked to me and my husband like that. I say that after 2 years in weekly therapy to detach and create boundaries. I probably could not have said that prior to my therapy.

He is toxic and it's not your fault.

 

[BusynMember]

Go to therapy. It really helps.

There is no way anyone should ever speak to you that way.

Hugs more!

 

[Beta]

Thank you both for saying that. It's ridiculous but maybe I just need to hear it from others so I can have "permission" to detach. He is toxic. I know this. I don't understand how we got here but there it is. The person he once way isn't there anymore and for all I know maybe he's been gone a lot longer than I ever realized.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Beta, I agree that you needn't accept that kind of awful behavior from anyone, especially your son. I'm afraid my daughter used to speak to me disrespectfully and treated me with utter disdain as she in the same breath insisted I give her even more. All of that behavior stopped when I stopped accepting it. People treat you the way you allow yourself to be treated. You matter. Your son's behavior is unacceptable. He has let you know he prefers no contact. Give him what he wants. And find ways to nourish yourself and put YOU as the priority. Take care of YOU.

 

[newstart]

I have been out of contact with our son, Josh, for two weeks until last week. It always happens this way. I go for two or three weeks, and then I start talking myself into trying to reach him again. He eventually responds with abusive speech as below: (These are direct quotes from today)
"How does it feel to have failed at everything you ever tried to do because your a fool?"
"Why doesn't your family talk to you, stupid ."
"I'm going to guess like everyone else they realized your a cancer of a human being."
"Nothing but a lying coward. I hope you both die. I mean it"
"Coward ."
"Just a lying whore."
"Kill yourself."
"I wish I could cave your f******* face in selfish ."
"I wish I could punch you in your ugly old face."

Okay--if your child was saying these things, what would you do? I'm embarrassed to have even written the things he says to me and my husband. I've tried to detach, but then I start thinking about his going hungry and being on the street, ending up in jail, ending up dead, and I cave in. Do any of you experience this type of abuse from your kids?
I have begged him to leave Denver and to accept some shelter from us, but he refuses and says the types of things above. What is wrong with me that I keep going back for more abuse? My husband gets frustrated with me, and I can't blame him.

Beta, I went though similar abuse. I just always prayed it would end, but it just got worse until I went NO CONTACT. Take your precious self off that demonic roller coaster ride, you will feel better immediately after you make 100% sure it is the right choice for you and stick with it, you do not deserve that kind of abuse. You can still care and send him love through prayer. That kind of abuse is harmful to each and every cell on your body not to mention how it is harming your emotions. He knows how deeply you care, he has turned into a demon and is actually getting pleasure from harming you. End it now for your own life and the other people in your life. Cut him out the sooner the better.

 

[Beta]

Yes again, these things are true. Thank you both for your feedback. I just needed to know I have done EVERYTHING I can do before I let go. And I know it's not the end of the story. I will keep praying for him; that's all I can do.

 

[RN0441]

And pray for yourself too!

 

[Tanya M]

Beta, you are not alone. I too have been on the receiving end of some very similar, ugly comments from my son.
No one deserves to be spoken to that way and especially not from your own child.

Plain and simple, you love your son but you also need to love yourself. Love yourself enough to not subject yourself to that kind of toxic behavior.

Worrying about him will never change the way he is living his life. Worrying about him is robbing you of living your life in peace.

I get it. I've been where you are. We each have to come to our decision about "enough is enough"
For me, it took way too long. I truly believe if I had found this site many years ago that I could have saved myself from years of being stuck in the FOG and also a bunch of money.

This is not an easy journey for any of us but at least we are not alone.

((HUGS))

 

[Beta]

Tanya,
Thank you. I feel stupid, but I guess I just needed to hear from other people that this is unacceptable and that I wasn't just being "hard nosed" and giving up on him when I shouldn't. My husband has said the same thing about having peace and joy in our lives and how allowing him to disrupt our lives has robbed us of that. This site has been a God-send to me. Those of you who have walked this journey longer can at least know that your suffering hasn't been wasted--it has helped other people like myself to deal with it. I feel a sense of freedom now.

 

[Tanya M]

I feel stupid

You have no reason to feel stupid. You are a kind and loving mother.

 

[Kalahou]

Hello Beta
I agree with the wisdom others have shared regarding the abusive speech he attacked you with. But I’ll share some experience regarding your comment (below).

but then I start thinking about his going hungry and being on the street, ending up in jail, ending up dead,

I’m guessing I’m around 20 years older than you. And my difficult child (my 3rd adult child) is now 39 years old. I’m thinking back to when he was 28, like your son. I still had some blinders on then, I still had hope for a certain kind of relationship, some remnants of dreams of possibility for him to fulfill his potential and my hopes. I was still willing to sacrifice for him, for his wife …. As years passed, as money drained out, as the destructive “rinse repeat” patterns caused more and more pain and heartache, I cried more and more, and I got weaker, did not eat enough. I did not want to come home, wanted to run away.

Then his wife could not take it and left, and the subsequent divorce brought him back to my home where we thought we could help him get back on his feet. It brought all of us crashing into a choking, drowning, downward spiral. I felt I could not breathe, I knew I was going to die soon, if he stayed around me. That was the turning point.

Once I was clear with him on making him leave, setting him free to suffer on his own and reap the consequences of his own choices and behaviors, it was a slow and painful process to recover, but we began to revive and to feel relief that we were going to be alright.

but then I start thinking about his going hungry and being on the street, ending up in jail, ending up dead, and I cave in.

In the process of regaining myself, I found myself often thinking these exact things (imagining that he was hungry , on the street, ending up in jail, and ending up dead.) So far now, all of things have actually happened, except the last. ( He is still alive.) I want to tell you that these things happening to him have not been all bad. I fully believe that because he has been hungry, been on the street, been in jail, that he learned valuable lessons in those places (his lessons for himself that he had to handle on his own, and that were the result of his own doing and growing) , that he is actually doing a little better than he was. He is figuring out more things on his own, without me. But even now, he still is sometines on the street / hungry, etc.

I also have imagined the worst – that he would end up dead. While this is not a happy ending to think about, I came to realize that if I should find him dead or if that happens (as it could happen to us all), that I would have to accept it and survive it somehow, and that even then my life would be alright. Once you can imagine the worst and realize that you would come through it, it is no longer such a threat.

We must realize we cannot be responsible or sacrifice for these difficult adult children, and we have no authority and control over all the times of their lives. I have posted these points before and must continue to remind myself to:
· Stop trying to fix someone else’s problems
· Stop trying to encourage change in someone who doesn’t want to change.
· Stop giving repeated chances to someone who abuses/takes advantage of forgiveness and support.
· Stop trusting nice-sounding words (often lies) while ignoring/tolerating destructive actions.
· Stop giving my strength and effort toward a relationship that isn’t reciprocated.

Take care dear. You are going to be alright.

 

[Copabanana]

Your son is mentally ill. That does not mean that you should tolerate any of this, but it gives you a context to understand it. I think that your enduring this even 1 percent is bad for you and especially bad for your son. I believe that he can get treatment that would likely stabilize him, that who he is in his present state is manic, even psychotic. I agree with RE here:

All of that behavior stopped when I stopped accepting it.

To tolerate the abuse in a way is to sanction it.

you love your son but you also need to love yourself.

I think your love for yourself, and self-care also demonstrates deep love and commitment for your son. To the son who can accept treatment and benefit from it. To the bottom line that he can be somebody who can control himself and be appropriate to others.

My son mistreats me the most. Why? Because I am most likely to be the one who takes it. This, to me, is enabling my son to behave poorly. It is absolutely contrary to belief in him. Belief in my son would mean that I draw the line at any bad behavior. Mentally ill or not.

 

[Beta]

I've read and re-read each one of your responses. I've copied and pasted them and printed them out because I know in the coming weeks and months ahead I will need to refer to them again.
You know, I'm familiar with the term "codependent" but never really researched it, but suspected I probably had some of those traits. Well, this morning, after reading through your posts again, I did some reading on codependency. Wow. As I went down each characteristic, most of them describe me and definitely fit the dynamics of what's going on with our son. So I finally broke down now and bought a copy of "Codependent No More," which has been recommended on this site to me before. I see now that the dynamic of my relationships and particularly the dynamic in my relationship to Josh is not a healthy one, for me or ultimately for him. Copa, your words above "I think your love for yourself and self-care also demonstrates deep love and commitment for your son. To the son who can accept treatment and benefit from it. To the bottom line that he can be somebody who can control himself and be appropriate to others," really got me thinking. It's not just what is best for me right now but what will ultimately maybe benefit him. I'm just feeding the fire with my attempts to rescue and reach him. He will need to experience the absence of his parents in his life, at least for the time being.

Anyway, to each of you who took time out of your day to consider and thoughtfully answer my question, thank you. I can't tell you in words how much I appreciate each of you. I will continue to read and learn from each of you. I've prayed that God will give each of you peace, joy, and a sense of His presence as you walk through this. Love and hugs to you all.

 

[LauraH]

Wow...that so echos the things my son said to me when he was a teenager on a regular basis (minus the husband, it was just me and my son back then). Now that he's in his 30s the language has changed but the intent and message are sill the same. I'm the crazy one. I am the root of all his problems, past, present, and future. I'm selfish. I'm toxic. And so on. My son is extremely toxic and I become toxic when we're together. I'm on the verge of instituting a zero contact policy, not what sure for what period of time, because I simply can't listen to that broken record anymore. I hear it primarily when he's using, from the day he got to Florida last November up through last night. I'm done listening and especially done responding to any of it.

The thing is, you know better. It's hard not take those acid words to heart and I know from experience how badly it hurts hearing them. But remind yourself that you are none of the things he's telling you you are, and don't take his bait and engage with him. Much easier said than done, I know.

 

[Beta]

Your're right, I do know better, but I also know that words carry tremendous power in our lives and affect us whether we want them to or not. Our son's constant abuse chips away at my self-worth as a human being and a mom. Your description of them as "acid words" is spot on--they are like acid, wearing us down over and over.

 

[LauraH]

Your're right, I do know better, but I also know that words carry tremendous power in our lives and affect us whether we want them to or not. Our son's constant abuse chips away at my self-worth as a human being and a mom. Your description of them as "acid words" is spot on--they are like acid, wearing us down over and over.

My son's therapist when he was a teenager made a great point. She asked my son if someone else said those things to his mother would he stand for it? When he said "of course not" she said "then why do you feel it's okay for you to do it?" And this is ironic...one especially drama-filled night my husband had had his fill and yelled at me "You and your son are both crazy!" My son told me I should have to listen to that kind of abuse. (It was a one time thing said in the heat of anger and frustration) And yet he doesn't see what he says and does on an ongoing basis as abuse in any sense of the word. Emotionally stunted and blind, these Difficults are.