17 yr old son hanging out with members of a gang and doing drugs

[InsaneCdn]

Not because this makes any difference to the immediate present, but because it might help in the future... what was he like as a baby? toddler? early school years? What kinds of mental health and developmental issues run in his family tree?

 

[defiantchild]

I think the research says that male brains do not develop fully until about 27 or 28, and sometimes later.

I worked in prisons many years and I saw that that was the age that there was a huge drop off in recidivism. I asked them what changed. They said something like: It used to be fun. Now it is not. It's not worth it anymore. And they changed.

Ask yourself this: With all of your worrying and trying, have you been successful? Do you think there is something that you still have in your arsenal as a parent that stands a chance of working? There may be.

If he does not want to go straight, how will you get to him?

What about Job Corps? Or the military? Both options are very effective with young men such as your son. Or even college. There may be some program that appeals to him.

My son went to Job Corps when he was 18. I made the mistake of letting him come back home. He did not leave again until he was 23 or just 24.

The thing that most of us had to face is that we are powerless to help them. They must help themselves. If you offer him a range of possibilities, and let him know that you support him, that might be an option. Except th.ere may be risks, both to him and to you.

First there is the danger. If you believe he is using dangerous and/or illegal drugs, there is that.

Realize that if you provide support you may subsidize bad behavior. And as long as he remains in your house and he continues to do risky things that you know about...it could be argued that you are responsible, perhaps even condoning it.

I know how hard this may be to read. I hope I am not being harsh.

Perhaps with the police or probation department or the district attorney you can speak to people that work in early intervention, for youth who might turn to gangs. There has to be people like this that you can turn to. Or the school may have some idea. They are still responsible to some extent, even though he is not in school.

What about insisting he return to school? Could you do that? The problem is this: Where is your leverage?

Keep posting. It is slow here at night. Many more people are on the board from say 7 am Eastern time to 4 pm Eastern. You will get a variety of responses. Why not post a thread on Substance Abuse, and maybe on P.E. Because in a sense your son is already independent. That is part of the issue, I think.

Take care. So many of us have been over our heads, feeling how you do. Nowhere to turn. Desperate, even. Believe me. You will do this. You will get through this.

COPA

Dear Copa,

Thank you for your advice. You are not in any way being too harsh. We have not tried those options yet. I will look into Job Corps and the military. I'm not sure college (culinary school) is a good option at this point, but I suppose if he agrees to get his GED and wants to go we can support him there as long as he does well.

 

[defiantchild]

Not because this makes any difference to the immediate present, but because it might help in the future... what was he like as a baby? toddler? early school years? What kinds of mental health and developmental issues run in his family tree?

Hi InsaneCdn,
Difficult Child was diagnosed with- adhd in elementary school. He's always had some difficulty getting along w others. Never wanted to follow rules, ever. Doesn't seem to care too much about how his actions impact others. Has always managed to find friends, but often his friends 'move on' in part because parents of the friends didn't want Difficult Child hanging out with their sons. That's why the friends he has now are mostly kids with drug problems and more like him.

My psychiatrist asked me if sociopathy is in either my husband's or my family. I don't know of any. My husband doesn't have any serious mental health issues in his family at all. My sister is 64 yrs old, bi-polar, finally on the right cocktail of medications and is stable emotionally, but does not support herself financially. My parents 100% support her. My oldest brother struggled with drug addiction and alcoholism and tragically died at 36 of a drug overdose. This brother never appeared to have any sociopathic tendencies. He was a caring guy. My other brother has all sorts of anxiety/Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and never learned to take care of himself - at 52 years old my parents still support him financially as well. This brother had lots of learning difficulties. Had trouble getting along with others. Was grandiose in a way as well....But all of my relatives who knew my brother and know my son say they are NOTHING alike. They say my brother was a real entitled a-hole as a kid. My son never behaved like that with family. He was always really sweet with the family and close friends of the family. I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) which is completely under control with- low does of Prozac. It's changed my life. I work, my husband works, we both have our own businesses and do well. I have another son who is one year older than Difficult Child. He's a good kid. Of course he's not perfect, normal teenage nonsense, but he has lots of friends, he's an athlete, he's ok. He's a freshman in college.

 

[BusynMember]

Sometimes issues are inherited from now dead relatives. Whatever is wrong with him, and you may never know for sure as phychiatry is an inexact science, you chan learn to change your behavior towarhd him and be safe. If he takes drugs, steals, is violent or abusive to you...it is beyond adhd and you need to watch your belongings lest he steal them to pawn. Is your husband his bio. Father? Biology is huge.

Whatever, you did not cause this.

Please take care of yourself.

 

[defiantchild]

Sometimes issues are inherited from now dead relatives. Whatever is wrong with him, and you may never know for sure as phychiatry is an inexact science, you chan learn to change your behavior towarhd him and be safe. If he takes drugs, steals, is violent or abusive to you...it is beyond adhd and you need to watch your belongings lest he steal them to pawn. Is your husband his bio. Father? Biology is huge.

Whatever, you did not cause this.

Please take care of yourself.

The hardest part of this is not knowing what's wrong AND knowing that the male brain doesn't fully develop until the mid 20's. So throwing him out there when he's incapable of making good choices seems so counterintuitive. I wish there was someplace to put him to keep him safe until he's 25.

 

[BusynMember]

There is no place unless he gets on Disability and is willing to follow rules of a group home. In other words, he has to agree to be watched and get help. Even a cancer patient will not get better if he refuses chemo. The person has to be willing to do the hard work to get better. It stinks, but it's true.

 

[defiantchild]

There is no place unless he gets on Disability and is willing to follow rules of a group home. In other words, he has to agree to be watched and get help. Even a cancer patient will not get better if he refuses chemo. The person has to be willing to do the hard work to get better. It stinks, but it's true.

how does one get on disability?

 

[InsaneCdn]

Well... first you need one or more diagnoses that prove you are disabled. For example, SWOT's son who is on disability, has Asperger's. Not everyone with Asperger's gets disability - some can function on their own. Mental health can be a disability - schizophrenia, bi-polar, severe and on-going depression not responsive to treatment... those are some of the ones I know about.

 

[defiantchild]

what about conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder?

 

[InsaneCdn]

Those are not disabilities... They are assumed to be "attitude". That's why I hate them as labels - they don't give you anything except validation that you are not crazy, and they don't give the labeled person anything at all (no help in any form, in my experience). In reality, the underlying condition may well be a disability. But if the label keeps us from getting to the correct diagnosis... it is really frustrating.

 

[defiantchild]

Those are not disabilities... They are assumed to be "attitude". That's why I hate them as labels - they don't give you anything except validation that you are not crazy, and they don't give the labeled person anything at all (no help in any form, in my experience). In reality, the underlying condition may well be a disability. But if the label keeps us from getting to the correct diagnosis... it is really frustrating.

You are right. That's why the school did nothing for him. We tried to get an IEP so that we could home school him for general education and send him to the local vocational school for culinary. They refused bc they said he's not eligible for an IEP. Only a 504 due to the ADHD and the diagnosed visual processing issues (non verbal learning disability). They wouldn't do ANYTHING to accommodate my son. It was so infuriating. That's why we finally let him drop out to work. He was doing so well at work....but outside of work he was dealing weed....and that's how he got fired from his job - because the police chief decided to inflict collateral punishment on my son and he reported the arrest to his boss. Ever since he lost this job he's been on a downward spiral. I'm not sure if he would have self destructed at some point anyway...but what the police chief did is criminal, just horrible. Even the judge was upset about it. But nothing we could do to help him get his job back. Very famous chef, very high profile company, they wanted to stay far away from any potential problems....even though he was well liked in the kitchen.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Court case against the police officer to get equivalent of disability pay? I don't know, but that kind of behavior destroys more than just your son. It destroys faith in the legal system. Officers like that should be removed immediately and permanently from all policing roles. Just my opinion, of course. And I'm not from the States. Where I'm from, it would be a major breach of privacy laws for the officer to do that, and the punishment would be swift.

 

[defiantchild]

Something to think about for sure....we've considered taking action against him. It would be a very costly battle...we're not sure we can handle the cost financially and emotionally (we live in this town...).
Not sure what to do

 

[Copabanana]

Your son is capable of working as demonstrated by his maintaining his job until he chose to do something that would threaten it.

With what I know about SSI, I would wonder if he would qualify. But the thing is the thing he has going for him is his capacity to work. That seems to be besides the family the one strong influence. SSI provides free money to buy drugs. And there is no necessity to work. That is what happened with my son who did qualify. His whole world is his marijuana. He does not have to cooperate with anybody.

The thing is this: These young men may not have developed brains, but they will not follow rules or accept authority. They insist upon doing exactly what they want, when they want and imposing it on others.

My son could not go to the military because of his health. When he was 18 or 19 I really wished he could. Job Corps is great. But the other young people there will be like him. Perhaps not demographically, but in their attitudes and choices.

Job Corps is set up to handle youth before their brains mature. And so is the military. College, not so much. Kids will sink or swim I think.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

Your son is capable of working as demonstrated by his maintaining his job until he chose to do something that would threaten it.

With what I know about SSI, I would wonder if he would qualify. But the thing is the thing he has going for him is his capacity to work. That seems to be besides the family the one strong influence. SSI provides free money to buy drugs. And there is no necessity to work. That is what happened with my son who did qualify. His whole world is his marijuana. He does not have to cooperate with anybody.

The thing is this: These young men may not have developed brains, but they will not follow rules or accept authority. They insist upon doing exactly what they want, when they want and imposing it on others.

My son could not go to the military because of his health. When he was 18 or 19 I really wished he could. Job Corps is great. But he will be like other young people like him. Except poor and to use an old fashioned term, disadvantaged, with respect to opportunities. Job Corps is set up to handle youth before their brains mature. And so is the military. College, not so much.

COPA

i am looking into job corps and military as options right now. are you saying there is more supervision in these programs than in college?

 

[Copabanana]

Yes. More structure, supervision and the need to be accountable. In college you either sink or swim. I say that based upon my own experience.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

They refused bc they said he's not eligible for an IEP. Only a 504 due to the ADHD

This is a lie. They lie. My son had an IEP throughout his 12 years in school as ADHD/Other Health Impaired.

An IEP process is adversarial. Never, ever accept what they say. They do not want either the child or the parent to be empowered. They want to do the least they can. This I say based upon my own experience as a parent and as a professional sitting on IEP teams.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

This is a lie. They lie. My son had an IEP throughout his 12 years in school as ADHD/Other Health Impaired.

An IEP process is adversarial. Never, ever accept what they say. They do not want either the child or the parent to be empowered. They want to do the least they can. This I say based upon my own experience as a parent and as a professional sitting on IEP teams.

COPA

well i wish we had been smarter then...we really, really tried. paid a lot of money for high powered attorneys and psychologists for evaluations. we ran out of steam. decided since he was doing well at work maybe we should just focus on the positive instead of trying to pound him into the cookie mould.

 

[Copabanana]

That is a very bad story about the police chief going after your son's job. It may be a blessing in disguise. Because now you are aware more or less of what is going on, while there is still a bit of leverage to get yourself somewhere where he will be protected from himself.

I am a fan of Anthony Bourdain the former chef who has the TV program, Parts Unknown, on CNN. He as a heroin addict for 20 years or so, beginning in his early 20's (while away at college). He wrote a book I think it is called Kitchen Confidential. He said drug use is rampant in professional level restaurant kitchens.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

how exactly does job corps supervise? not really sure what it is...and how they hold the kids accountable...