17 yr old son hanging out with members of a gang and doing drugs

[defiantchild]

That is a very bad story about the police chief going after your son's job. It may be a blessing in disguise. Because now you are aware more or less of what is going on, while there is still a bit of leverage to get yourself somewhere where he will be protected from himself.

I am a fan of Anthony Bourdain the former chef who has the TV program, Parts Unknown, on CNN. He as a heroin addict for 20 years or so, beginning in his early 20's (while away at college). He wrote a book I think it is called Kitchen Confidential. He said drug use is rampant in professional level restaurant kitchens.

COPA

yes, anthony bourdain is quite a guy with a real story to tell...do you think someone like him could help my son?

 

[Copabanana]

I think you made the right choice. I would have done the same thing. In fact, I did. They pushed me too far, and I yanked my son out.

I think you are getting somewhere now: identify one or two options that you feel are his best shot, with supervision and conditions.

I pushed my son to go to another training, after Job Corps. He worked over a year. But his attitudes and depressed mood, finally undermined that. Since that time he has been a couch potato and homeless. Going from place to place. Once he got the SSI, he had no real need to do anything constructive. With nothing constructive to do, he got worse.

Work is the key, I think.

As long as it comes from your steam and not from his, the gains are vulnerable. I learned that after years. My son has got to want it. Yours too.

The fact that your son was dealing drugs, while working, would frighten me. What did he need all that money for?

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

Who knows? How would you find such a person and know he was on the up and up.

Anthony Bourdain has gotten seriously into Brazilian Jiujitsu lately. His wife and daughter are really into it too. Have you thought of that? Supporting him to immerse himself into a martial art with a code of ethics, really, a way to live?

As long as my son was involved in Brazilian Martial Arts, he was OK.

Actually we lived abroad for a number of years. That in itself, helped, I think.

If there are economic means to do so, what about a cooking program in somewhere like France or Italy? Where he would be completely out of the element he is in.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

But I need to add. When we lived abroad, I was with him.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

I think you made the right choice. I would have done the same thing. In fact, I did. They pushed me too far, and I yanked my son out.

I think you are getting somewhere now: identify one or two options that you feel are his best shot, with supervision and conditions.

I pushed my son to go to another training, after Job Corps. He worked over a year. But his attitudes and depressed mood, finally undermined that. Since that time he has been a couch potato and homeless. Going from place to place. Once he got the SSI, he had no real need to do anything constructive. With nothing constructive to do, he got worse.

Work is the key, I think.

As long as it comes from your steam and not from his, the gains are vulnerable. I learned that after years. My son has got to want it. Yours too.

The fact that your son was dealing drugs, while working, would frighten me. What did he need all that money for?

COPA

For some reason, my son is very motivated by making money. He's very driven. He told me that he was living 'the life' when he was dealing. Only 16 years old and lying to us about his whereabouts and instead staying in hotels in NYC with his girlfriends at the time. He claims he won't deal again, that he realizes you can't get away with it for long...i don't know if he really means it or not. He doesn't appear to be dealing now. Just using. Today however, he is in bed, called in sick to work. I know he really is sick, but he has been using and hasn't had enough sleep so no wonder he feels like this.

 

[Copabanana]

In Job Corps there are counselors. There are residence halls. They live there and they study for their GED's and following that, for a trade of their choosing. The trade programs vary in length. Some of them are really strong.

In housing, school, cafeteria, grounds, they are monitored and held accountable. It is very structured. It is like a team approach. Everybody in authority knows about each enrollee, what their challenges are and it is shared among the staff. There is no falling between the cracks. Of course nothing is 100 percent. No drugs or alcohol are allowed and they are booted out if there is a transgression.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

Who knows? How would you find such a person and know he was on the up and up.

Anthony Bourdain has gotten seriously into Brazilian Jiujitsu lately. His wife and daughter are really into it too. Have you thought of that? Supporting him to immerse himself into a martial art with a code of ethics, really, a way to live?

As long as my son was involved in Brazilian Martial Arts, he was OK.

Actually we lived abroad for a number of years. That in itself, helped, I think.

If there are economic means to do so, what about a cooking program in somewhere like France or Italy? Where he would be completely out of the element he is in.

COPA

maybe i should move to italy with him lol...he really needs to get out of this environment. we have a cousin who said Difficult Child could live with him in new jersey. i just don't know if that's the answer....i don't think he would last too long there with his wife and young daughter. but i agree he needs a totally new environment.

 

[defiantchild]

Who knows? How would you find such a person and know he was on the up and up.

Anthony Bourdain has gotten seriously into Brazilian Jiujitsu lately. His wife and daughter are really into it too. Have you thought of that? Supporting him to immerse himself into a martial art with a code of ethics, really, a way to live?

As long as my son was involved in Brazilian Martial Arts, he was OK.

Actually we lived abroad for a number of years. That in itself, helped, I think.

If there are economic means to do so, what about a cooking program in somewhere like France or Italy? Where he would be completely out of the element he is in.

COPA

my husband knows AB indirectly through business contacts. these business contacts have worked with- AB in the past. i'm sure he could reach him. never thought of doing that before....and who knows if he's on the up and up as you say...

 

[defiantchild]

In Job Corps there are counselors. There are residence halls. They live there and they study for their GED's and following that, for a trade of their choosing. The trade programs vary in length. Some of them are really strong.

In housing, school, cafeteria, grounds, they are monitored and held accountable. It is very structured. It is like a team approach. Everybody in authority knows about each enrollee, what their challenges are and it is shared among the staff. There is no falling between the cracks. Of course nothing is 100 percent. No drugs or alcohol are allowed and they are booted out if there is a transgression.

COPA

wow the job corps sounds really promising. i never knew about this....have you heard of any success stories?

 

[New Leaf]

The fact that your son was dealing drugs, while working, would frighten me. What did he need all that money for?

That is the hard part, once someone has a substance abuse problem, and deals, then they are fast tracked into a world of making lots of money, as well as having a supply for themselves.

I am glad that you have more options for your boy, but what is key, is if he is willing to go the route.

My hubs got his GED through Job Corps. They supervise the students through counseling, teaching a trade, and housing them. They were let out of the facility on weekends, for a time. But, it takes the kids wanting to succeed.
They have a strict compliance policy.

A lot will depend, on what your son chooses.

He claims he won't deal again, that he realizes you can't get away with it for long...i don't know if he really means it or not. He doesn't appear to be dealing now. Just using. Today however, he is in bed, called in sick to work. I know he really is sick, but he has been using and hasn't had enough sleep so no wonder he feels like this.

This may be a window of opportunity, perhaps you can talk with him about the options you are looking at. Try to find out what he is interested in.

It is crucial, however, for him to get clean.

My heart goes out to you D C, this is a tough road, for sure.
You are not alone.

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Copabanana]

I will check in later.

The thing Job Corps or the military provides is for as long as they are there they may not get into worse trouble. What comes from that is up to the person.

But there has to be buy in from your son. He sounds very talented. I love that he is driven. I see a lot of potential in him.

I agree with you, I would be careful about sending him to family or friends. In our case it did not work at all.

The key sounds like getting your son to buy in. To want to do it. And to want to succeed. He learned a valuable life lesson, losing that job. I doubt if he will that again.

I believe AB is on the up and up. But he is involved with a multi million dollar enterprise. But it could interest your son, motivate him. That is key.

Does your son know Anthony Bourdain's story?

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

I will check in later.

The thing Job Corps or the military provides is for as long as they are there they may not get into worse trouble. What comes from that is up to the person.

But there has to be buy in from your son. He sounds very talented. I love that he is driven. I see a lot of potential in him.

I agree with you, I would be careful about sending him to family or friends. In our case it did not work at all.

The key sounds like getting your son to buy in. To want to do it. And to want to succeed. He learned a valuable life lesson, losing that job. I doubt if he will that again.

I believe AB is on the up and up. But he is involved with a multi million dollar enterprise. But it could interest your son, motivate him. That is key.

Does your son know Anthony Bourdain's story?

COPA

I'm not sure he knows the extent of AB's story. I was afraid to give him the book Kitchen Confidential...I thought he might think it glorifies the lifestyle....Maybe I should get it for him as an audio book. We are going on a family vacation in January and he can listen to it on the airplane.

As far as my son learning his lesson, I'm not really sure he did. I don't think he will continue dealing, but he's getting in plenty of other trouble, so how much did he learn? He is seemingly so out of touch with reality. He takes crazy risks all the time. It's such a shame....

I'm going to look into the AB connection a little more...

 

[Copabanana]

It is good that your son aspires for things. That is something to build on. I would fear that Bourdain's book would make it all look all too cool. Especially how he turned out on the top. How many others wreck their lives or die?

I wonder. Your son has tasted the good life. He knows what it is to feel on top. A big guy. Will he really go along with the military or Job Corps? It has to be something he wants. Wants bad. That would be the best.

What about culinary school? One out of the country, preferably. So he would be out of the environment he is in? Something where he would be immersed in something completely different. It sure sounds fun to me. I would have loved to have gone to Paris. Or Rome....

You have some ideas now. Some hope, I hope. There are a lot of positives in your situation. It sounds like he is still tied in with the family. Wants to be. Keep posting. Take care.

COPA

 

[InsaneCdn]

He takes crazy risks all the time.

Unfortunately, this is actually fairly normal for young men in their late teens and early 20s. And it isn't something "new" - my grandpa's brothers had these challenges 100 years ago. There really IS a problem with male slowness in developing some logical thought processes.

 

[defiantchild]

It is good that your son aspires for things. That is something to build on. I would fear that Bourdain's book would make it all look all too cool. Especially how he turned out on the top. How many others wreck their lives or die?

I wonder. Your son has tasted the good life. He knows what it is to feel on top. A big guy. Will he really go along with the military or Job Corps? It has to be something he wants. Wants bad. That would be the best.

What about culinary school? One out of the country, preferably. So he would be out of the environment he is in? Something where he would be immersed in something completely different. It sure sounds fun to me. I would have loved to have gone to Paris. Or Rome....

You have some ideas now. Some hope, I hope. There are a lot of positives in your situation. It sounds like he is still tied in with the family. Wants to be. Keep posting. Take care.

COPA

Hi Copa,

I am going to research culinary programs outside of the country. Thank you for that advice. In fact, I just emailed the Jamie Oliver Foundation in London - they run a culinary program for troubled kids and supposedly it's very successful. I will look into others as well. My only concern is there is no supervision in regular culinary programs...he's so easily distracted....doesn't seem to have the internal motivation to stay out of trouble and on track.

 

[defiantchild]

Unfortunately, this is actually fairly normal for young men in their late teens and early 20s. And it isn't something "new" - my grandpa's brothers had these challenges 100 years ago. There really IS a problem with male slowness in developing some logical thought processes.

Yes, in fact I read an article in the NY Times about this. In prehistoric times this was actually a genetic advantage - in the 'hunter/gatherer' model. But today in the society in which we live, it is impossible to survive in an academic environment where you have to conform sit still, live in a very structured/sometimes boring environment when you have the hunter instinct like our ancestors.

 

[New Leaf]

But today in the society in which we live, it is impossible to survive in an academic environment where you have to conform sit still, live in a very structured/sometimes boring environment when you have the hunter instinct like our ancestors.

Here on Oahu, there are programs for troubled youth that keep them active and busy, one in particular, focuses on farm to table.
So, the kids grow the food, and learn how to prepare it.
Some kids are not meant to sit still, I think in the old days, these were the kids that were sent to do the active work, and learning.
I wish the education system would get away from all of the sitting, computer work and crazy testing.
All of our kids do not fit in the same box.....

Maybe there are programs closer as well, that can help your son.

Sending him to Europe, good idea, but if he gets into trouble there, then what?

Also, we get into the habit of thinking about our kids, their lives and their futures, more than they do?

All of this, really depends on what your son will choose for himself..........

Be mindful of this, and take good care of yourself.
It is important to build yourself up, in the throes of our
d cs drama, oftentimes we neglect ourselves.

Be very kind to yourself.......

(((HUGS)))
leafy

 

[Copabanana]

the Jamie Oliver Foundation in London

I had not heard of this. It sounds great. There must be supervision if it targets troubled kids.

Everything is a trade off. If you push him to something he has no enthusiasm for, he will balk and do anything to get out of it. If he goes somewhere where he is motivated there is the possibility he may stay motivated.

He was succeeding at the job, it sounds like. You know he can do it.

You have to accept that 95 percent of this has to do with him. You know that saying. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

You are doing this for you, mainly. So that you will feel you have done whatever it is in your power to give him the means to make good choices. A start. You cannot choose for him.

All of us have come to that understanding or we will.

I am hopeful for him. But it is when he wants, if he wants. He has to learn to choose well for himself. For him to learn he has to be free to do so, and to suffer the consequences if he chooses poorly. I wish it were different.

COPA

 

[defiantchild]

Here on Oahu, there are programs for troubled youth that keep them active and busy, one in particular, focuses on farm to table.
So, the kids grow the food, and learn how to prepare it.
Some kids are not meant to sit still, I think in the old days, these were the kids that were sent to do the active work, and learning.
I wish the education system would get away from all of the sitting, computer work and crazy testing.
All of our kids do not fit in the same box.....

Maybe there are programs closer as well, that can help your son.

Sending him to Europe, good idea, but if he gets into trouble there, then what?

Also, we get into the habit of thinking about our kids, their lives and their futures, more than they do?

All of this, really depends on what your son will choose for himself..........

Be mindful of this, and take good care of yourself.
It is important to build yourself up, in the throes of our
d cs drama, oftentimes we neglect ourselves.

Be very kind to yourself.......

(((HUGS)))
leafy

Thank you Leafy It's nice to hear your words of wisdom and encouragement.

 

[defiantchild]

I had not heard of this. It sounds great. There must be supervision if it targets troubled kids.

Everything is a trade off. If you push him to something he has no enthusiasm for, he will balk and do anything to get out of it. If he goes somewhere where he is motivated there is the possibility he may stay motivated.

He was succeeding at the job, it sounds like. You know he can do it.

You have to accept that 95 percent of this has to do with him. You know that saying. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

You are doing this for you, mainly. So that you will feel you have done whatever it is in your power to give him the means to make good choices. A start. You cannot choose for him.

All of us have come to that understanding or we will.

I am hopeful for him. But it is when he wants, if he wants. He has to learn to choose well for himself. For him to learn he has to be free to do so, and to suffer the consequences if he chooses poorly. I wish it were different.

COPA

So true, Copa. So true and so hard to watch. Thank you for sticking with me and for your helpful advice.