Am I enabling??

[mof]

I don't know if this is helpful..at the prison where my husband visits and ministers to, the Chaplin there has a WHOLE closet full of deodorant, shampoo etc..

Churches and such donate these items..toothbrushes too, in reality how much deodorant does one need?

Prison isnt great, but there are resources and ways to get essentials. Trust me, there are men my husband sees who have not had mail in 20 yrs..sad, but they are wearing clothes.

Cigarettes are a big item...and sweets, as our system will not provide items with sugar.

find out all you can....he does not need your cash, love and support is more than most get.

hugs

 

[Tanya M]

Okie, your son has you right where he wants you, feeling guilty. He is using your emotions against you.

My son has been in jail / prison a few times. I learned the hard way not to send money. Here's the thing, our little darlings did something wrong to get into jail / prison. Prison is not supposed to be comfortable and when we put money on their books it's making it easier for them. Their basic needs are being met.
$90.00 a month is a lot of money especially for someone in jail. Yes, you are enabling him.

Will your son pitch a fit when you shut down the ATM?? Probably but that's okay, let him. You are under no obligation to give him money. Again, prison is not supposed to be comfortable. If your son is anything like mine, once you stop sending money he may lie and tell you all kinds of horrible things in order to make you feel guilty in hopes that you will give in and send money.

Okie, step out of the FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

((HUGS)) to you..... I know how hard this is.

 

[okie girl]

Oakie,

I feel your pain and discomfort. I have been wrestling with this same issue. My son (22) has been in and out of jail for two years now. BEcause he is a sweet and vulnerable young man (in addition to being a substance abuser and felon!) I started by putting money on his phone account and on his books in addition to buying him prison clothing packages (underwear, socks). His dad also put money on his accounts. I did this with each new return to jail (He kept getting released to monitored mental health facilities and either running away or failing). Eventually I was like...I'm not buying socks again. My ex husband bought him radios (he loves music and was listening to ball games and talk shows, which made our phone calls much more interesting). He did indeed get a job in the jail kitchen, partly for the money and partly to pass the time.
The last time he was released I told him that if he left his program again I wouldn't provide in-jail support to him anymore...no money for calls, and I might not take his calls either (he called every day). I persuaded his dad to not buy yet another radio (they all supposedly were stolen from him or broken). His dad and I agreed we would still send him books..he always had trouble reading outside, but seems to manage it in jail.
It is very, very hard. And yet...if you want something you've never had you have to do something you've never done. We have to stop making jail so comfy for him.
I mean, he is there for a reason. I assume your son is also. Why are we acting like this is just a tough time for them and we are providing mommy love? THEY COMMITTED CRIMES.

(I am shouting to myself).

Try not to let him twist things into looking like the only love is in things given, in financial transaction. You can love him without giving him money. If he doesn'
t know that or refuses to acknowledge that, then we know there is something else at play. You already know that.

Good luck, Oakie. Its hard.

Echo

Echo....you do know what I'm going through. I have bought socks, undershirts, sheets, towels plus putting money on his books and depositing money on a phone plan. Got to cut way down on this enabling. Just hard to do...thanks for your support.

 

[okie girl]

Okie, your son has you right where he wants you, feeling guilty. He is using your emotions against you.

My son has been in jail / prison a few times. I learned the hard way not to send money. Here's the thing, our little darlings did something wrong to get into jail / prison. Prison is not supposed to be comfortable and when we put money on their books it's making it easier for them. Their basic needs are being met.
$90.00 a month is a lot of money especially for someone in jail. Yes, you are enabling him.

Will your son pitch a fit when you shut down the ATM?? Probably but that's okay, let him. You are under no obligation to give him money. Again, prison is not supposed to be comfortable. If your son is anything like mine, once you stop sending money he may lie and tell you all kinds of horrible things in order to make you feel guilty in hopes that you will give in and send money.

Okie, step out of the FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

((HUGS)) to you..... I know how hard this is.

Tanya...he is an amazing Expert on making me feel guilty. I think I put money on his books so I won't feel guilty. If this makes any sense. I've got to stop but it is so hard.

 

[STEP MOM]

Tanya...he is an amazing Expert on making me feel guilty. I think I put money on his books so I won't feel guilty. If this makes any sense. I've got to stop but it is so hard.

Everytime you want to "supply" him. Know that your husbands days will be numbered in leaving. Are you married to your Son or your husband ? Who is there to love and comfort you ? If it's your Son then by all means trash your husband and continue to coodle your son.

 

[toughlovin]

OK I might have a slightly different take than others as my son just spent 2 months in a low security prison. Check the prison web site for what you can mail to them. In my sons case the only thing we could send was letters and cards.... not even books, those had to be sent by the publisher. So the tennis shoes etc. might be real needs. I think the prison makes money on canteen .... you have to buy paper and pens etc. So I think putting some money on his canteen account every week is reasonable. Clearly dont overdo it. And I think this is something you should talk about with your husband and not do behind his back. I agree that you have to put your marriage first.

But prison is not a fun place to be and I know for my son canteen day was something he really looked forward to.

It is also true this is something where you can easily be taken advantage of, and certainly canteen items are used as part of the prison economy so I think you have to set a limit.

And I really think you need to be comfortable with what you do and don't do. No one else can tell you what you feel comfortable with.

 

[okie girl]

OK I might have a slightly different take than others as my son just spent 2 months in a low security prison. Check the prison web site for what you can mail to them. In my sons case the only thing we could send was letters and cards.... not even books, those had to be sent by the publisher. So the tennis shoes etc. might be real needs. I think the prison makes money on canteen .... you have to buy paper and pens etc. So I think putting some money on his canteen account every week is reasonable. Clearly dont overdo it. And I think this is something you should talk about with your husband and not do behind his back. I agree that you have to put your marriage first.

But prison is not a fun place to be and I know for my son canteen day was something he really looked forward to.

It is also true this is something where you can easily be taken advantage of, and certainly canteen items are used as part of the prison economy so I think you have to set a limit.

And I really think you need to be comfortable with what you do and don't do. No one else can tell you what you feel comfortable with.

Thank you Toughlovin.......I'm going to send him enough money to get his tennis shoes because I have already promised him. I went to visit him a couple of weeks ago and his shoes were falling apart. After Christmas I will cut down the amount I send him. Thanks again

 

[susiestar]

Some of us have found it helps to write short sentences to help us say no and post them near the phone. THings like:
I can't do that.
I am sure you will figure that out.
That sounds like a challenge.
Wow, what will you do?
I don't think I would enjoy that. (This is a phrase one of my aunts uses that is just about perfect - it is very hard for someone to argue that you would enjoy something, especially giving them your hard earned $$, lol! I have used it many times and it often just leaves difficult people just speechless because they don't know how to react to it. Your enjoyment simply isn't something that ever occurred to them to think about.)

The other thing to remember is something my mother told me when I was a young mom getting pressured into doing things. In my mother's words, "'No' is a complete sentence" What she meant is that you can say it and then NOT justify it. By just saying no and then not giving a reason, you then give the other person no way to try to talk you into doing what they want. You don't leave yourself open to their argument or persuasion.

You don't even have to do this. You can just not take all of his calls. Reduce the number of his calls that you take. Tell him that you cannot afford to pay for the calls. You love him but you must contact him in writing instead. This way he cannot badger you, you can read his letters when you are feeling strong and when you are not feeling strong you can ignore his letters. If his letters are abusive or manipulative, you can simply stop reading them. Or during phone calls if he gets abusive or manipulative, simply hang up on him. It really IS okay to do this if he is not treating you with the respect that a good son would show his mother. Not just that your son usually shows you, but that a good son would show his loving mother. Because you ARE a loving mother, and you should be treated with that level of respect!

(((((hugs)))))

 

[Ironbutterfly]

My son was in minimum security jail for 60 days. They had a website where you could put money on account for phone calls and could list who he could call. I did pay for that. In addition I put a certain same amount on his account for paper, pens, hygiene products,etc. I called and found out what was provided and what they had to pay for first. There is a service charge on every item they purchase. Like pad of paper might be 3.00 but then they tack on a 1.75 SC. Then I decided on fixed amount and told my husband (son's step dad) this is what I am sending and I insisted on sending it, period. He is slightly mentally challenged from birth and gets taken advantage of easily.

Okie- it sounds like he keeps upping the $$ request and makes me think he is bartering or selling things to get something else. I would sit down with husband and discuss. Hey, I would like to send son 20, 30 a month whatever you decide on. Tell him I called prison and this is what they don't provide etc. He needs some basics. He is your son and I so understand the guilt. But you have to do/decide what you can live with- but I do feel that is lot of money he is getting. Keep it simple- talk with husband going forward and just say, I want to do this at xx amount and here is why.

 

[okie girl]

My son was in minimum security jail for 60 days. They had a website where you could put money on account for phone calls and could list who he could call. I did pay for that. In addition I put a certain same amount on his account for paper, pens, hygiene products,etc. I called and found out what was provided and what they had to pay for first. There is a service charge on every item they purchase. Like pad of paper might be 3.00 but then they take on a 1.75 SC. Then I decided on fixed amount and told my husband (son's step dad) this is what I am sending and I insisted on sending it, period. He is slightly mentally challenged from birth and gets taken advantage of easily.

Okie- it sounds like he keeps upping the $$ request and makes me think he is bartering or selling things to get something else. I would sit down with husband and discuss. Hey, I would like to send son 20, 30 a month whatever you decide on. Tell him I called prison and this is what they don't provide etc. He needs some basics. He is your son and I so understand the guilt. But you have to do/decide what you can live with- but I do feel that is lot of money he is getting. Keep is simple- talk with hus and just say, I want to do this at xx amount and here is why.

Thank you Ironbutterfly....this is something I will consider

 

[susiestar]

Okiegirl, I again urge you to go to alanon meetings. This will give you some in person support to cope with this. One thing that occurred to me is that maybe before you send money to your son, you go to an alanon meeting. You talk to your son, you go to a meeting, you talk to your husband, and THEN, if you still feel you need to send a certain amount of money, you send the money.

One thing I think your son does is to get your emotions all riled up and get you to send the money as soon as possible. You send the money without getting any outside input regarding what he said to you and whether or not there is any reason for him to actually need the things he claims to need.
If the only opinion that you hear is your son's, the only 'facts' are the ones he presents, then you are only going to see his side of things. You deserve the time to think, to see your side of things, to hear your husband's side of things, and to see what others who are in similar situations with addicted children might think. Also come here and ask what we think of his attempts to extort you.

When you go to alanon, don't just go to one meeting and expect to have it fit just right. Most areas have more than one meeting, at different times and places. Experiment with going to different times and places until you find a meeting where you are comfortable. It may take several meetings to get acquainted with people, but I think it will be worth it. I use the word alanon, but I mean alanon, narcanon, and even the family meetings for Celebrate Recovery if they have them and a more religious meeting is more comfortable for you.

Please know these are only ideas. Use the ones that are helpful and ignore the ones that are not. I know that some won't be helpful and I won't be offended or upset or anything if none of these ideas work for you.

(((((hugs))))))

 

[Echolette]

One thing that occurred to me is that maybe before you send money to your son, you go to an alanon meeting. You talk to your son, you go to a meeting, you talk to your husband, and THEN, if you still feel you need to send a certain amount of money, you send the money.

One thing I think your son does is to get your emotions all riled up and get you to send the money as soon as possible.

This is really good advice for all of us. It is so helpful to remember that it is OK to wait to respond to anything.."let me process this a little" or "let me ponder that a bit" are great answers to requests...then do it! Make a habit of waiting 24 hours before committing to anything. I totally agree that our Difficult Child's are wired for drama, and the immediate hit of "demand and get gratification" We don't have to participate in that. Make a habit of waiting.

Also, the idea of discussing the request with others, lots of others, is brilliant. Once I was in a very toxic relationship and I was constantly drawn into the high drama of my partner. My therapist at the time said to identify three trusted friends...my wingwomen...and to tell them about every contact I had with Mr. Toxic. It was very helpful. We make bad decisions in the dark, in secret. Letting things out in the light and air has got to be a good thing, even if it feels awkward at first.

My two cents!

Echo

 

[nlj]

Susiestar's and Echo's suggestion to wait before giving an answer is excellent advice and one of the most helpful bits of advice that I followed when my son was in his blackest period and calling or texting about yet another 'crisis' at regular intervals. I also adopted a mantra of 'thinking twice before saying nothing' which worked really well for me and my son. I would literally say nothing, or just 'mmmm' when he phoned with details of yet another disaster. He would get frustrated with that, and would then fill in the empty space with more and more information and hysteria about whatever 'crisis' was happening and get himself in knots with a load of contradictory facts. I would then say 'that sounds tough' in a caring way and I'd tell him that I'd think about everything he'd said and respond to it the next time he phoned. 9 times out of 10, when he next phoned, he'd forgotten the previous call and what he'd said, and the disaster that was apparently happening and the cash that he apparently needed urgently. He'd got through the crisis without my input somehow, if there ever was a real crisis. Haha.

By the way ... my son is now still bonkers, but he's happy and travelling around Europe and living outside society in a way that doesn't negatively impact on anyone else. We have a positive relationship. He's independent and never asks me for anything. I love him a lot. He's by far the most interesting of all my children.

Stay strong, follow all the great advice on this site, and hope for a more positive future. One thing is sure - enabling will definitely not lead to a more positive future.

 

[RN0441]

Okie

So sorry for your pain on trying to decide what is best to do. It is so hard for all of us. I agree with everyone else. He is 45 years old. Holy cow!! I would send him the bare minimum. That is what we do with our son who is 21. If you don't let yourself FEEL guilty, then you will not. Try this. It really does work.

I also would limit his calls to you. I have been in a whirlwind with my son for 5 years. No prison time but I FEEL I have paid MY dues in all of this - his bad decisions. I am CERTAIN you have paid yours.

Hugs and enjoy YOUR life and YOUR husband.

 

[okie girl]

Thanks everyone for all of your excellent advise. This is such a caring group and I appreciate all of yalls input. Y'all have given me a lot of options to consider and I truly thank you

 

[toughlovin]

I agree about the alanon meetings (or some form of support meetings). If you can find a parents group that is even better! I have to say my alanon parents group has been an absolute life saver for me. Alanon doesn't give answers but it does give ideas and helps you to focus on you and your needs. I have found in my alanon group that there are several different variations on situations and what people do or dont do for their kids. You learn there are no "right" answers but it helped me figure out what was right for me....and also to detach from the outcome and really is helping me let go.

 

[Nomad]

My main thought (s) here is you should never lie to your husband. I think you should tell him. If nothing else, I hope you would consider stopping the lying from this point forward.

I would settle on a number a little higher than you were doing originally, but that's it. Maybe $80 a month? (max) Just a guess. The only possible exception would be if you know for an absolute fact that he needs money for medication and possibly a little extra for his birthday and Christmas.

But an exception is just that...a RARITY. Birthday and Christmas (or whatever). Confirmed need for medication. That's it. Those are THREE situations that you might be willing to go higher than your agreed upon monthly allowance. I wouldn't budge from something along these lines. Stick to an agreed upon monthly allowance and a little extra for some rare instances...and that's it!

He has to learn how to make due, he has to learn that he is NOT entitled, he has to learn to appreciate your generosity, he has to learn that you are a woman of your word, he has to learn that you are NOT willing to lie for him.

He might (hopefully) grow a little with these restrictions placed upon him in a firm manner. They are fair, generous, kind.....but steadfast and important. Set kind boundaries. He needs to learn to live within boundaries! He's 45. Yes, past due. He absolutely needs to learn to live within boundaries

 

[Copabanana]

okie girl, everybody said everything I would have said. I want to underscore just one or two things at most.

You have told your husband that YOU ARE NOT PUTTING MONEY ON HIS BOOKS. I think I read that.

Even if you were only to put $5 a month on his books, that would make this a lie to your husband. You are afraid to tell him the truth because he might leave you. That little lie makes you vulnerable all of the time. Because in your heart you know.

You know I worked in prisons over a 20 year period. The money is used for gambling, for extortion, for drugs. That is the in and out of it. There are many, many inmates, the majority, even who are considered indigent. To be indigent has its advantages because the prison is forced to provide you with the basics, for clothes, toiletries, leather boots, etc. (I am in another state, mind you.) And there are jobs. There are usually jobs. In some prisons the pay is good. In some places, there are few jobs or the pay is low, but here is the thing:

The men who do not receive money or packages develop businesses. It's called "a hustle." It can be something as simple as collecting a certain type of garbage from the ground like candy wrappers, that some inmates use to make useful things or crafts. Prisoners are the premier recyclers. Every single thing is reused or made to suit a purpose you would never dream of. Other inmates become artists, and draw and paint beautiful custom greeting cards. Other inmates become jailhouse lawyers: they help others with their legal paperwork.

Every penny you send to him takes away your son's incentive to get busy and to provide for himself, and reinforces seeing life in terms of dollars and cents, instead of what is intrinsically valuable, like love and work. You have no way of knowing that one dime of that money is used for his enjoyment or his well-being.

Given your husband's position, and your assurance to him, I would stop.

I spoke longer than I intended. My perspective does not come from the place of making him suffer or feel the effects of prison life. I think when we lose our integrity in our relationships, we lose our self-respect. You are caught between two people. Neither one is happy with you. Be happy with yourself. The right thing Is to honor yourself.

 

[okie girl]

okie girl, everybody said everything I would have said. I want to underscore just one or two things at most.

You have told your husband that YOU ARE NOT PUTTING MONEY ON HIS BOOKS. I think I read that.

Even if you were only to put $5 a month on his books, that would make this a lie to your husband. You are afraid to tell him the truth because he might leave you. That little lie makes you vulnerable all of the time. Because in your heart you know.

You know I worked in prisons over a 20 year period. The money is used for gambling, for extortion, for drugs. That is the in and out of it. There are many, many inmates, the majority, even who are considered indigent. To be indigent has its advantages because the prison is forced to provide you with the basics, for clothes, toiletries, leather boots, etc. (I am in another state, mind you.) And there are jobs. There are usually jobs. In some prison the pay is good. In some places, there are few jobs or the pay is low, but here is the thing:

The men who do not receive money or packages develop businesses. It's called "a hustle." It can be something as simple as collecting a certain type of garbage from the ground like candy wrappers, that some inmates use to make useful things or crafts. Prisoners are the premier recyclers. Every single thing is reused or made to suit a purpose you would never dream of. Other inmates become artists, and draw and paint beautiful custom greeting cards. Other inmates become jailhouse lawyers: they help others with their legal paperwork.

Every penny you send to him takes away your son's incentive to get busy and to provide for himself, or to see his advantage in terms of dollars and cents. You have no way of knowing that one dime of that money is used for his enjoyment or his well-being.

Given your husband's position, and your assurance to him, I would stop.

I spoke longer than I intended. My perspective does not come from the place of making him suffer or feel the effects of prison life. I think when we lose our integrity in our relationships, we lose our self-respect. You are caught between two people. Neither one is happy with you. Be happy with yourself. The right thing Is to honor yourself.

Copa...I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. I know I have been living in denial. My son can manipulate me like no other. I have always given in to him and I think I do it because it is easier than hearing his stories oh how he needs stuff. I feel bad about lying to my husband and I know I need to stop but I do feel like I am being torn in two directions. But the bottom line is I do feel guilty about what I have been doing. Your reply has given me a lot to consider. Thank you

 

[Nomad]

The fact that there are jobs in prison really changes things for me. You should seriously consider not giving him anything or VERY little. Maybe $5 a week. Maybe nothing. And again, be honest with your husband. Hopefully, your son will figure out that he has no right to push you around. AND hopefully he will figure out to find some job in the prison for any extras. This is part of life. When I get sales calls and the guy is pushy I remove my ear from the receiver so I can no longer hear the person and say "thank you but I am not interested. good luck and have a nice day" and then I quickly hang up. I haven't done that yet with our difficult child, but have thought if push came to shove, I definitely would. I have gotten off the phone pronto and so far, that has been good enough. BUT, if my daughter was REALLY harassing me...I absolutely would remove my ear from the phone and say into the speaker " I've decided to greatly reduce the money I am giving you and will only be giving you x per month with no exceptions. I'm sure you will do well." You wont be able to hear anything he says (or yells). Then hang up.
No guilt. No fuss. No drama.