At My Witt's End


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Copa, I am really trying to do that. It's not easy finding a place right now and I don't want to put them on the street. I am just not in a place that I can do that.
I believe my healing will begin much faster with them gone.
I would suggest a hotel they could stay in and pay by the week but that would leave their stuff at my house. When they go, I want everything gone with them.
Another reason I don't want to put them on the street.
I am trying to think logically about this. I don't want them to have a reason to come back unless it is to see me.
In the past, anytime I am not helping my kids, I don't hear from them at anytime, holidays, birthdays, nothing....
I guess in a sense, I am also preparing my self to handle complete rejection as well.
I know I will be fine in due time when this happens but I am still trying to face this reality in the moment.


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Gosh Beta, this is NOT good. I am thinking and thinking what you could do to not be subject to his tirades, and I can't come up with anything except like you say, to keep your distance. If at all possible could you minimize any interaction with him except what is essential? It's not right that you be scapegoated.
I do limit my contact with him and have become very careful about what I say or ask. To be honest, he's actually done better than we expected. There have just been a few occasions when he's mouthed off but it wasn't a threatening or scary thing. I have come to the decision that, for however long he will be with us, I am going to limit my contact with him and just work on being polite, almost as if he were a stranger staying in our home. I have come to realize that he does not have the capability of caring for anyone other than himself, at least the way he is right now.
We love them. We're connected to them at the deepest level of our being. Yesterday, I found myself wondering (again) if it wouldn't be possible to just decide to never see or speak with my son again, as a way to protect myself. How could I do it?
This is something that I may need to do in the future. He's saying that he will not be moving with us once we move this summer (it's on hold due to the virus mess). I was hoping he would move with us, stay just long enough to get a job and place of his own, and then move out but be in the same area. He says he will not be moving with us though. I'm hoping he will not be returning to Denver. That would only put us all right back in the same situation, and I am enjoying not having to have the anxiety and text-driven abuse we had the last two years. But if he decides to go out on his own and go somewhere other than where we are, I will have to make a decision about whether to have contact with him or not. I won't go through it again.

It just feels so very sad that 30 years of loving a child would come to wanting to never see and speak to him, out of a desperate wish to remain safe.
I would never have imagined that things would be this way, 30 years ago. But I guess all of us would say that same thing.

Beta, we don't get roped in, we are enjoying what we wish we had all the time.
I think our longing to have a loving, healthy relationship with our child overtakes us in those moments when they are being "nice" and we give in to it. But, at least in our case, it's just an illusion. There is no real relationship because our son is not capable of having a relationship with anyone right now.


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After I wrote this last post I worried that you would hear it as judgmental. I hope it wasn't. I want to support you to be safe and contented. Your son will NEVER allow this.
It's not easy finding a place right now and I don't want to put them on the street. I am just not in a place that I can do that.
OK. I understand this. Then you need to take responsibility for this decision and to not seek to have what you can't control. You can't control his behaving civilly towards you. In my view you need to minimize ANY interaction with him. Say, for instance, about the shower. To chide him about running the water was an invitation for his disrespectful and uncalled for tirade against you. What I am saying here is that YOU at this point, not him, has DECIDED to want him in your space. You want him in your space because because of FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

Erroneously, you believe you are OBLIGATED to take responsibility to house this grown man who is working, and fully able to secure his own housing. And because of this (false) belief you are afraid to upset the apple cart. And because of this (false) belief you feel guilt at the mere thought that he would, as an adult, be responsible for his choices and behavior.

I don't fault you for this. Or judge you. But the reality is that this is a choice. There will always be something to make us feel the FOG. Unless we confront it and challenge it.
I would suggest a hotel they could stay in and pay by the week but that would leave their stuff at my house.
There are storage facilities that are very, very inexpensive.
In the past, anytime I am not helping my kids, I don't hear from them at anytime, holidays, birthdays, nothing....
My son has never one time remembered my birthday or a holiday. Like with you, nothing. I don't have any other relatives so I worry about when I am very aged and alone without help.

This is ridiculous of me. Only the present moment exists. The future is composed of billions of decisions each one in the present. A good future for me will come as I learn to decide based upon my welfare each moment as it comes. Same for you, I think.


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He's saying that he will not be moving with us once we move this summer
Dear Beta: Who knows what he will do? Because he says one thing or another, to me, means not one thing. I don't think Josh or any of our sons think about what comes out of their mouths.
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Hi Copa, I read but don't write. I'm not doing so great but I do have a tele-health appointment with my PCP today. I hope I have the courage to tell her how I am feeling. Maybe it will be easier since we are not face to face.
I can't rid myself of this doom and gloom feeling.
I know I need to just get over myself but can't seem to shake it.
Thank you for reaching out.

Peace and Love


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Please talk to your PCP about possibly getting medication for your depression. My doctor said that many, many people are starting to become anxious and depressed right now. She herself is now taking anxiety medication, to get through these trying times.

How are things going at home with your son and his girlfriend?


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I can't rid myself of this doom and gloom feeling.
Could that be because we are all of us living would could become a doomsday scenario? Or at least our psyches feel it to be so. Thus this:
My doctor said that many, many people are starting to become anxious and depressed right now.
I spent last night reading about the "second wave." One scientist used the phrase: The virus is coming for all of us.

As bad as this is now, many scientists and governors are implying it will soon be worse. Thrown into the mix is all of the talk about a vaccine, and other potential treatments. The Oxford trial of vaccine is said to be progressing rapidly.

What I am saying here is this is BIPOLAR. Doom and gloom and the promise of being saved, while we are tied to the tracks. I agree with Apple. I think EVERYBODY is suffering the effects.

But I want to add one more thing, OW. You have displayed real courage in the time you've been here on this board. I'm going to use an analogy here to make a point. Picking up rocks in the garden that have long been in place. When you do that all kinds of wiggly creatures scurry about trying to find another spot to lodge themselves. I experience my own psyche this way. When I have shown courage to challenge myself to open up myself to the sun and the air, oftentimes it feels like the demons just come out to terrorize me. Because they do.

While this feels terrible, I don't think it's a bad thing, if we can understand and accept why this happens. I think it happens because our minds seek tried and true ways of coping and functioning, even if such may be maladaptive and not serve us.

I am dealing with something like this now. Where feelings are coming up that I have struggled to avoid for my whole life. It's not fun. But at the end of the day, I choose it. I am choosing to be brave. When I stare down the feelings, in time, they recede.

As I do this I have to deal with feelings about my son who refuses to live in a way that I find to be remotely functional or worthwhile. I try to gently remind myself that his life is his business, and my (large enough) task is to focus myself on my own life. Which is true.


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I am enjoying being hidden away. Most people want to get out and about. Me, I have a good excuse now.

I was able to discuss how I am feeling with my PCP and together
we have come up with a plan.
I am going to try a medication and talk to a therapist. She gave me a number to call and I will call tomorrow.

My son and his girlfriend are being nice. They are cooking things I like hoping I will eat. Coming out of their room to watch a movie with me. Both are working everyday and keeping my yard and house up.

My daughter is sending me pictures through text of her and the grandkids. Calling and letting them talk to me. Actually being supportive.

All the above should be making me feel better but I can't get over this.

Work is my only escape but I can tell I am not as focused.

I will beat this, I just hope it's soon.

Thank you all for caring.

Peace and Love


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Good morning to all my brave friends.
It has been a little bit since I have had the courage to write about my struggles.

I am ashamed that I can't make a decision and stick to them.
Mad at myself for continuing to be used and unable to stand up for myself.
Confused and discouraged that I don't know how to ask for help.
Scared I will never be free of this life I live.

I am scatter brained. Up and down. Feel good just to fall back to having the same old negative feelings flood in.

I read all the posts hoping to grab hold of the awesome advice shared.
I lie to myself that all is good. That I am strong and making great strides to better my situation.

My body hurts. The ibuprofen is not working as good. I was ordered a drug to help with the pain and the depression and never went to get it.
Couldn't come up with the courage to call the therapist my doctor gave me the number to.

There is no honesty around me. Both my son and daughter pull the wool over me and I continue to let them.
I don't have the courage or strength to fight it.

I feel like a cry baby writing this. I know what I need to do so do it and stop whining about it. What is wrong with me?

I feel so alone and worthless and no one can help me but me. So I wallow in my misery and do nothing. When I can't take it in any longer, I write here, hit post reply and pretend I feel better now.

I go days feeling I can make it throught the day, it isn't as bad as I make it sound. Then I become anxious, stressed, confused and defeated for days.

I know I am not making any sense with what I am writing but that is just how senseless I feel too.

Thank you all for letting me speak my feelings without judgement. I am really letting myself down.

Peace and Love


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Pick up your prescription.

You will feel better and more able to make those tough decisions you are needing to make to reclaim your life.

If you want to talk privately, PM me.



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Overwhelmed, I'm sad for you. We all know the sense of shame and defeat and self-doubt. We are the abused ones, yet we blame ourselves for being abused in the first place. Our progress is so back and forth; up and down; it's not a neat, linear progression that goes upward all the time. What we are experiencing is a form of trauma, I think, and we are coping about as well as any loving parent would. Be kind to yourself; you have come a long way. You are so worth respect and love from your children; never doubt that. I've never met you personally but I can sense from your posts that you are a loving, generous person. We're here for you.


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Overwhelmed...I am sorry you seem to be afraid to do anything for yourself, even medications and therapy. I get it, but nothing will ever change unless you do gather that courage. Think. Why can't you pick up your medications? Why can't you call the therapist? Define the words that make you fearful such as "ashamed" "embarrassed" "needy" "inferior" etc. I came up with words that I used to describe why I didn't do these things when talking to my therapist.

Once I defined the words, I found that it made things easier to do because my reasons seemed not good reasons to treat myself bad. I was an adult. I would need to stand up for me or forever live miserably.

When he asked me to come.up with words to define how I felt when I told my daughter no, it got worse. "Guilty, unloving, bad mother, afraid she wouldn't love me, terrified she wouldn't love me, horrified at the thought she may not love me" etc. With Al Anon and our therapist we did it.

Was it easy? No!!! It still isn't. But our lives are better now.

Overwhelmed, I will be frank however I do not mean for you to read this as harsh. Firm not harsh. And with love. Your life will be horrible forever unless you force yourself to do what is hardest for you. I don't know if you will. But that is the only answer. Also when you are gone your kids need to do okay without your help. So it is kind to STOP. If you can. It's hard. But we all do it. Or not.

Your life is in your hands.

Blessings and hugs. I hope the best for you even though it's hard.


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Big Big update!!!!
Wow a short while ago I would have never thought by my birthday I would be feeling this good.

I started the medication and it really has helped.

My visit with my daughter was perfect. We had so much fun. No outburst, no disrespect, no gaslighting... I was treated so we'll.

When I got home my son had finished all my landscaping I was hoping to do this summer. It looks amazing!!!

I am mostly thankful to God for this miracle.

I am also thankful for all of you for being here for me during my toughest time.... Thank You!!!!

Peace and Love


100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Wow what a difference in your two posts!!!

Prayers that things continue to look more positive for you.

We've all been there. It is a deep and dark place to crawl out of but it CAN be done.

Prayers that your strength continues.


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Dear OW. I am sorry I missed this post from a couple weeks ago, but so glad the skies have cleared for you. I want to tell you this: I think this earlier post is a strong, strong post. Our strength is in our wounds. The part of us, the voice, that is weakest, feels most shameful, the most broken, can be our strength. When we can summon up the courage to bring this brokenness forth, is the capacity to heal the most apparent. I am not surprised to hear you feeling so much better, soon after.

I want to urge a couple of things. In my own experience this is cyclical. We will feel stronger, the sun will have emerged from the clouds, only to find that a few days or a few weeks hence, the storm returns. It is so important to recognize that this is the process. This perpetual need to again have the pain revealed, and to sweep it away. Based upon my experience, this will continue, as long as we need it to. The pain is our friend, our ally, not something to be feared.
What is wrong with me?
Not one, single thing. You are healing OW.

I hope you post here in bad days as well as good ones. The worst days in some ways are the best. It is a paradox, I know. Remember, the strength is in the wound. The cure exists present within the illness. We need the pain and illness exposed to the light and the air, to heal.

You are doing this!! Keep posting.
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Medication helped me too. A lot. When Kay had kept me so depressed for so long that it turned clinical. I resisted too but eventually took it and about a month later I was back to my old self. I could cope again. It was such a relief.

So happy everything is going so well. Keep in touch! Prayers.


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Overwhelmed, so glad the medication has helped you! And I was glad to hear of the positive behaviors from your son and daughter on that day. Copa is right, of course, it is cyclical in that there may very well be some negative behaviors again, and knowing that ahead of time is helpful, but at least you know that they can treat you well when they choose to. That's hopeful.


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Good morning to all the lovely people. I haven't been on for several weeks and wanted to give an update on my progress.

First, the medication I started, I stopped taking it. I started having side effects I could not live with. I was unable to get a good nights sleep and would wake up suddenly throughout the night in a panic. I also started having difficulty eating and when I did I could not taste the food and feel nauseated at the time. This was before I even started the full dose my doctor wanted me to take.
Since stopping the medication, I feel much better. With prayer, meditating on the Word and constant focusing on the good when anxiety shows it's ugliness, I am doing well.

My daughter and I are having better conversations and less confrontations. She has even said "sorry mom" on several occasions in the last several weeks when she has spoken to me disrespectfully or went off on a tangent. She is not asking or demanding money from me, however I am still helping her financially. I moved her to a much better area for her and the grandkids. She is getting a job close by her apartment. At the moment she can only work Friday night thru Sunday afternoon when I can watch the kids. Once school starts she will be able to work hours the kids are in school. All in all I am happy with this progress.

My son worked for a month then quit. I am very unhappy about this. He and his girlfriend still live with me but the living situation is much better. I am getting help around the house and they have started paying me for living here. My son's attitude has changed drastically towards me. He is polite, offers to help with projects around the house, hasn't drank and even quit smoking cigarettes, he is vaping. I am quite proud of this. The vaping scares me, but it is a start. My son has also promised me he will be getting another job, that where he was working was not for him. I hope he keeps this promise and starts working again soon. There are quite a few good job openings in the area.

With all this said, I really got through this with the help from all the wonderful people here that God put in my life. You all took the time to listen, respond with encouragement and wisdom, kept me on the right track and made me aware that I am worthy of a happy and good life. I cannot put in words how much you all mean to me other than I love you all!!!

I read all the post and include this group in my prayers. I want to respond but don't feel I have much to offer those that are hurting other than my prayers. It is the wise people on here that I let respond, I read and learn. As well as my life is going at the moment, I will not lose focus that at anytime anyone can back slide. I will be better prepared if this happens and know that I have this group to turn to.

I want my success to be an inspiration to everyone and a reflection of the awesome support this forum has provided me.

Peace and Love


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Hi OV1!

I’m glad to hear that your life, and your relationships with your kids, is going much better! It’s all because of you and the fact that you are not putting up with mistreatment anymore that has caused your kids to stop mistreating you. I’m hoping you have a plan to stop supporting your middle-aged adult offspring in place, or are working on one. I’m glad they are behaving better, but the best thing you can do for them is allowing them to grow and become independent. If your daughter is eligible, she should apply for benefits to get her through until the time when she can start working full-time.

There are different medications you could try if you get to a place where you feel you need to take something.

So glad to hear that things are going well for you!