At My Witt's End

[Overwhelmed1]

OW. You are way too hard on yourself. This is a process. You are doing it.

Thank you Copa. It is just so hard. I want to see the grandkids so bad and Celebrate Easter with them. Get them Easter goodies but I know I would be uneasy around my daughter. I also fear she would some way make me feel guilty about not sending money or not re-signing the lease. How could I go there and that not come up.
Hell I can't even go to the store and see the Easter stuff without crying.
I know I have to stay away for now anyway.
Thank you for all your support.

Peace and Love

 

[JMom]

JMOM, I clicked on your link and seen it. It doesn't arrive until May.
I bought it to support you. You have been so good to me...
I wish I could write my story, it might show people they are not alone.
I always thought no one could have come close to having the issues I have with my kids. One reason I never went into detail.
It's like I didn't want others to hate my kids for what they have done to me. I love them and wanted others to love them too.
Does that make sense?
Not that I am happy that others share my pain, it is very heart breaking to know so many families struggle with the same issues and some cases worse, however it helps me understand better and gives me hope.
When you feel like you have tried everything with no success, you feel defeated and inadequate as a mother. doctors, counseling, medication, love, understanding, tough love, separation, tears, forgiveness, reuniting after long periods of time. It has been a very disturbing sequence of trial and error for me.
I am now back to separation again after two years of hope. She came to me after being in hiding for about 2 years and for a while it was great. About 6 months in, the same treatment from her towards me started all over.
I don't understand if she had a drug problem or mental issue, how you can contain your outbursts for that long of a period.
I know for a fact she does not drink or take any drug that isn't prescribed to her by the Dr she sees, however I am not happy with his drug of choice for her.
I am looking forward to reading your book and seeing the steps you took. It can't be any more depressing that the life I live right now and I am so sorry you had to go through this heartache....

Peace and Love

GIRL! Me too with the protecting them because they are awful to us! I don't know about passover...I might just let that passover without you!

 

[Overwhelmed1]

This is where I get myself into trouble.
My daughter responds to me so nicely after I declined joining them. She said the school gave her bags of plastic Easter eggs filled with surprises. She bought the kids a few things plus a big surprise for them. She said the kids will have to tell me what that is. She also said she got me something if I can ever make it back. This without me sending her money this past month.
She always prays for me and is very close with God. Would always text me scriptures and videos.
She hasn't in the last month but now she will since she reached out and I responded.
I don't get all of that when she at the same time treats me badly if she does not get her way or when she simply blows up at me unexpectedly.
My son and his girlfriend bought a ham and is planning a nice meal for today. Being very nice and cooperative.
They do these things and I feel like I blew everything out of proportion like I am the one with issues.
The wishy- washy self comes back. I get all confused. I don't know what I am doing. This has been the pattern throughout my life with them as adults.
Am I crazy? Am I blowing things up when it comes to them? I know everything I have been through with them is the truth but they make me feel guilty, unsure of myself, confused and defeated.
I am falling down again. I hate my life. I hate that I can't take control of my life. I hate that I don't have a clue of who I am.
I will be 62 and feel like at this stage of my life I should just throw my hands up and surrender to the fact that this is the way it is. I don't know if I can go through another round of this.
It's about to start all over again. Me letting them back in while things are going better with them. It's not like, as their mother, I would shun them when all looks good.
I still plan on getting my son out of my house and I am not going to pay for my daughter anymore but I don't know how to react to the rest of it.
I do love them both and I know stepping back when it comes to their living arrangements and their life's decisions are what is best for them and I will continue down this path. I have to admit though, that this process is easier for me when they are acting out.

Happy Easter everyone

Peace and Love

 

[WiseChoices]

Maybe it's not black and white. Maybe there is a whole lot of grey.

I go through exactly the same thing. And I am learning that it's my fear of setting calm boundaries and my fear of peoples' reactions to my boundaries that is holding me back from being in the grey. I bring out the big guns because of my fear. I throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak .

I am learning -slowly- to find balance and navigate the -for me- difficult area of setting and maintaining loving and calm boundaries . Al-anon is helping me a great deal with this.

I think it is possible to see the grandkids, to celebrate Easter with them, but not give in to any demands of your daughter for money - if you feel strong enough to maintain that boundary and not cave. And should your daughter chose to react badly and display unacceptable behavior, to realize the feelings belong to her, and to set a boundary like telling her you will not be berated and will have to leave if it doesn't stop immediately. Following through and leaving every time if she does not stop. We teach people how we will allow to be treated. When daughter learns that Mom walks away every single time she acts unacceptably, she learns that that does not work. You have the ability to participate at the level you wish and set for yourself. You can say that discussions about money are no longer on the table , that you know she will feel better about herself if she provides for herself and her children and that you refuse to help because you don't want to. After that , NO is a complete sentence. I can also refuse to accept someone's learned helplessness. I can respond with statements of empowerment: how I know she can figure this out for herself, how she is stronger than she thinks, how I need to take care of myself while she takes care of herself so when we come together, we can celebrate life instead of argue. Your grown daughter asking you for money is a boundary issue. You are not a bank. Supplying her with money is a boundary issue . When you start to solve yours, she has a chance to solve hers.

Your son and his girlfriend have already shown you over years how they will treat you when they live in your home. And we can't change other people. You have made the decision to have them move and reclaim your own space for your sanctuary. Them being nice to you doesn't change the fact that living together does not work for you anymore. Enjoy the meal and the company, and then watch them pack their boxes and leave. Put the focus on what you need, what you want, and what you feel. This is the only power and control you have. I want my house to myself, I need my home to be my sanctuary, I feel better when I live alone.

You are not crazy. It's just that when things are bad, you put on your black glasses and see everything through the lense of fear. And when things feel good, you put on the pink glasses and see everything through the lense of love. Finding the middle ground is what's hard as I have trained myself over years to engage in black and white thinking. It's a cognitive distortion.

You will find your way with this. We are all capable of learning new things and finding our own way. And by modeling that, others may be inspired to do the same. You've got this, OW.

 

[RN0441]

Hi Overwhelmed

I think the way you feel is very typical. I have to think back on my son when he was younger and all of the bad behaviors with him were going on. It's not the same situation that you are in BUT I felt the exact feelings that you are feeling.

He would act out, be horrible, get into trouble, we'd help him clean up the mess, he'd be good for a month or two and then I'd question my feelings about what had happened. Had it happened? Was it really that bad? Was he even to blame??

The answer was YES to all of the above. It was THAT bad. It was a pattern that happened over and over again.

You need to take YOUR life back. They need to be on their own. I don't care how many ham dinners they make.

It's hard but you must do this.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

A sigh of relief. I am in my home alone for the day. Everyone is working except me for a change.

Let's see, Easter dinner made just for me.
First came breakfast at noon. Well I had already been up for hours and had yogurt for breakfast. When my son got up I went to my room. He yells, breakfast is ready if you want any. I went to the kitchen and he told me, if you want toast you will need to make it, I didn't make you any.
I said you're fine. Woe!!! Used the wrong word. He snaps and says, I know I'm fine, that is not the issue. If you want toast you will have to make it.
I walk away while he makes a big deal out of that discussion with his girlfriend.
I stay in room the rest of the day until dinner.
Again dinner is ready, I make a plate while I am telling both of them thank you and how great everything looks. I even got some Lilies.
Plates made, I sit at the table waiting for them to join me. They walk past the table without speaking a word and go to their room to eat. That was that.

Daughter texted me several times and finally calls. We have a good conversation right up to the point she tells me she got a PayPal account so it won't cost me to send money any more. Actually that isn't free either.
The big surprise for the kids, a puppy. Now they have 3 cats and a puppy that need food, litter, collar etc. I'm supposed to be excited about this.
Nothing is going to change except me! You have all got it right.

Easter was not a loss though.
Do you know what a 62 year old finally got through her thick skull and broken heart?
My love, joy, hope and peace does not come from family, friends, situations or things.
My love, joy, hope and peace comes from God.
He says I am OK! He says I am loved. He says I give you joy, hope and peace.
I must keep my focus on the One who cares!!!

Peace and Love

 

[Copabanana]

they make me feel guilty, unsure of myself, confused and defeated.

No. You, not them, make you feel guilty, unsure, confused and defeated.

I don't get all of that when she at the same time treats me badly if she does not get her way or when she simply blows up at me unexpectedly.

Look OW. Her behavior and why she does it is not your problem. You don't have to figure it out. I agree with the others. Your job only is to not be impacted by it. You don't have to solve it. And you don't have to endure it. Nor are you responsible to help her overcome it. As an adult, that's her job. Or not.

That was the hardest lesson for me, that I am not responsible to help my son change. That I had no control there. The difficult thing for me, is that I need to be able to endure that he stay the same, recognizing that I was powerless. And the other hard part was accepting accept the reality of how his behaviors affected me, and that the responsibility was mine to make sure that they did not affect me. And to set limits accordingly.

They do these things and I feel like I blew everything out of proportion like I am the one with issues

Look. Things are not all or nothing. People are not all good or all bad. Nor are we. All of us act from strong AND weak parts of ourselves. If they are treating you well (today) does not mean that your needs are illegitimate.

I am falling down again. I hate my life. I hate that I can't take control of my life. I hate that I don't have a clue of who I am.

All of this self-criticism, self-punishment and self-attack is a pattern within you, how you react to ambivalence. All of us have some piece of this. Rather than see it as something bad and weak, you have a challenge to see this as your growing edge, as an opportunity to learn about yourself and your life.

I am reading a book called How to Turn Your Money Life Around, The Money Book for Women, by Ruth Hayden. While it's specifically about helping women changing their behaviors about money, I believe it would be helpful addressing many areas of life. Why? Because she has you look at your early life and address how we learned things about life and ourselves based upon how our parents and others treated us as children, and how these important others themselves believed.

The first chapter is called: "What's the matter with me?" You see ALL of us blame ourselves for failures and problems that come from faulty training as children. And Ruth Hayden teaches us that there is remedial education available to us. Once we identify this faulty learning as children, we can replace this learning with new learning, and change our behavior accordingly.

I don't know how to react to the rest of it.

There is a saying (that I hate): Take what you want and leave the rest. You don't have to make sense of or react to anything that doesn't have to do with you. You can learn to dismiss it from your consciousness. Yes.

Your children gaslight you. That is a behavioral strategy. This would confuse EVERYBODY. Nobody can make sense of gaslighting, because it is based upon double binds. It can't make sense because it is designed to confound. It's not you. It's them. Your challenge (and obligation) is to not take it in. It's not about you.

I am learning that it's my fear of setting calm boundaries and my fear of peoples' reactions to my boundaries that is holding me back from being in the grey.

Yes. This is what Wise is learning. She sees (now) that other people's reactions to her boundaries is NOT her business. Like this:

the feelings belong to her

And she owns that she is responsible to identify and to put into practice boundaries, her own rules about what she allows to affect her. Boundaries are lines that are not crossed. We don't cross them and we don't let others cross them either.

Right now you are being mean to yourself. If you value being kind, you have crossed a boundary in relation to yourself. Now that you are aware of that, you can choose to stop that behavior, by enforcing the boundary. I won't be unkind to myself or allow others to be unkind to me. It's as simple (and difficult) as that.

We teach people how we will allow to be treated

We also teach ourselves what we will allow. You don't deserve this self-attack. You have the power and the tools to stop it.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Copa, you always take a good bit of your time and thought to help me see through my self-destruction.
It is hard to love yourself when you haven't felt it unless you were the one given it. I'm trying to do better.
I appreciate you so much.
Thank you!

 

[Copabanana]

It is hard to love yourself when you haven't felt it unless you were the one given it.

I know how you feel, but your feelings here are not your friends. They are not telling you the truth. I am no different than you. But I believe self-love can come from a choice. I don't believe that we are forever destined to not care for ourselves, just because we were not loved as children, in the way we craved. I believe we have within us the capacity to love ourselves, be mothers to ourselves, in the way we needed, and still want.

see through my self-destruction.

I don't see this as your "self-destruction." Just as our knee-jerk is to treat ourselves with cruelty, we can learn an alternative way to be. Kind to ourselves. We need to learn a new way to be with ourselves, and then we need to practice it consistently, daily, minute by minute so that it becomes second nature. When we show up mean to ourselves we have an opportunity to identify it as than, and in that very second to stop it.

I'm trying to do better.

You are doing fantastically.

The only way we can do this is to show up warts and all. If we don't show up as we are, how do we change? Just because we hide away our pain, it lurks there, underneath influencing all of our attitudes and behavior. It is a great victory to show up damaged. Because then we know what we have to fix. And we do.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

It has been a rollercoaster ride while on vacation. Even having the house to myself during the day, I'm not getting any work done.
Feeling a little down, tired and anxious. Not sure why. So much I wanted to get done. I think I am doing OK but some days I am still on that rollercoaster. Some days I just need to talk, well write since I don't communicate my feelings anywhere but here. I know, same old boring noise coming out of me. Maybe I should start a journal instead of coming here all the time. I did have one long ago. Burned it because I was afraid someone would find it. This feels safer.
Oh well, just like Scarlet said in my favorite movie, "tomorrow is another day".
Just needed to say it out loud to see just how silly I am being.
Pssst, don't want to say it to loud but I just remembered, stimulus check and tax refund coming. Now some of what my kids are doing makes more sense.
Won't they be surprised when the bank continues to be closed. I'm working really hard not to turn that sign around and give in....or in my case give out...

I hope everyone here has had good days. Praying for us all.

Peace and Love

 

[Copabanana]

I know, same old boring noise coming out of me. Maybe I should start a journal instead of coming here all the time.

Dear Overwhelmed.

Please try not to attack yourself. I do it too. Lets both of us try to stop it.

This is very, very hard what we are going through. And on top of it, the Coronavirus. It's like isolation on top of isolation.

I am tremendously worried about my own son, too. And angry, too, because he never learns. He keeps putting himself back, and me with him, into the same peril.

I begged him to not leave the Sober Living Home, where he was secure, and he would not listen. He's back in the big metro near me, staying with a friend, where he has been homeless multiple times. He has no security there. And I won't take him back again. He has a chronic illness. He needs to be stable to take his medication. And now with this coronavirus. Why would he put everything on the line?

I know the answer. He does not think of consequences. And what he will do is try to show up again to the house I own, and I will have to turn him away. With the police, if need be.

Your story is every bit as dramatic x 2. And you wonder why it's so hard....

This forum exists for people in our situation to post. Please don't question that. I don't like to think about it, because when I write it feels so intimate, like I am writing just to you but there are many, many people who read these threads who never post. When you post you post not for yourself, but for the many, many people who are also in our same boat.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Copa, I wish for all of us in here, there was a moment we could all meet in a big room and share a huge HUG!!
Everyone here needs a hug and a shoulder.
You are so right. I need to stop thinking negatively about myself.
It is not in my nature to think that of others so I don't know why I think it's ok to do to myself.
I have been reading so many of the posts lately, old and new. I wish everyone all the best and hope everyone continues to find comfort here reading or posting.
I am working on being nicer to myself and we can work in it together.
Feel good tonight friend and try not to worry to much about what we cannot change.
Peace and Love

 

[RN0441]

I learned self compassion when I went to therapy when my son was in the thick of things.

I had never heard that term before. I would go to see her weekly and just cry my eyes out over the things my son was doing and how he didn't care about us or about himself. We were a nice family. We loved our kids more than life. I didn't understand.

We have to care about ourselves and be good to ourselves. If we don't, who will? We have to love ourselves and put ourselves first.

Your son is a grown man. You have raised him and I'm sure raised him well. We don't know why some of our kids do great and others don't. In my case, we were a blended family. We married and both had very young sons that had been through a divorce. Then we had one together and HE was the one that caused us so much agony starting in his teen years. He had a great life and a great family. Go figure.

I consider this site a type of journaling. It still helps me and I've been here for many years. We never get tired of hearing what each other thinks and feels and is going through. We are all in the same boat, or maybe a different boat on the same lake!

This site got me through the tough times and it will you too. Someday you will look back and see where you have been. I know that I read some things that I wrote long ago and I still feel compassion for the person I was then. None of us know the future so we can only take one day at a time and hope that things work out in the end.

If you pray, I would pray for yourself and your son. Prayer and my faith really helped give me peace and still does.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

I am learning to love myself. It is very hard for some reason. How can I love people, all people so much and not love myself? Where does that come from?

How can I know everyone is deserving, yet not let myself deserve it.

There is something inside me that is stripping me from self love. I truly don't know what it is.

I can't wait for this social distancing to be over so I can find a good therapist. I am scared to death to go but I am willing to give it a shot.

I need to take my life back and detach from my daughter and son so they can move on too.

I pray for everyone to find the courage and strength to do what needs to be done in their unique situation.

Peace and Love

 

[Beta]

My son and his girlfriend bought a ham and is planning a nice meal for today. Being very nice and cooperative.
They do these things and I feel like I blew everything out of proportion like I am the one with issues.

OW, I feel like this too when our son is in his "nice" mode. It's like I get roped into thinking that somehow he has changed and that I've just over-reacted in the past; then, as soon as I say or do something he doesn't like, it all comes out again in anger--"Why do you always....why are you always...." blah, blah, blah. I feel like I'm on an emotional rollercoaster. So don't think you're unusual or strange; we all have those feelings with our kids.

Your children gaslight you. That is a behavioral strategy. This would confuse EVERYBODY. Nobody can make sense of gaslighting, because it is based upon double binds. It can't make sense because it is designed to confound. It's not you. It's them. Your challenge (and obligation) is to not take it in. It's not about you.

Yes, and it causes a lot of self-doubt and self-hate within us. I am trying to be kind to our son without letting his toxicity beat me down and leave me feeling like I'm a failure as a parent and even as a human being. I have to keep some distance from him, even as he is in our home for the time being.

I am tremendously worried about my own son, too. And angry, too, because he never learns. He keeps putting himself back, and me with him, into the same peril.

I begged him to not leave the Sober Living Home, where he was secure, and he would not listen. He's back in the big metro near me, staying with a friend, where he has been homeless multiple times. He has no security there. And I won't take him back again. He has a chronic illness. He needs to be stable to take his medication. And now with this coronavirus. Why would he put everything on the line?

Copa...crumb! I'm so sorry to hear that he left there. These kids don't seem to understand that whatever they do to mess up their lives affects US too and puts us in a place of having to decide how to respond, how much or little to do, feeling the same old sadness and disappointment.

This is very, very hard what we are going through. And on top of it, the Coronavirus. It's like isolation on top of isolation.

Yes, I agree. It's hard on top of hard.

 

[Copabanana]

Gosh OW, I quoted your entire post!

How can I love people, all people so much and not love myself?

Ditto.

How can I know everyone is deserving, yet not let myself deserve it.

Ditto.

I struggle with these same things. I am learning that the answers are not as important as are our response. We can believe these feelings or we can respond to them. There are ways to respond to the feelings, that restore a sense of unity and tranquility in ourselves. Meditation for me, is one.

There is something inside me that is stripping me from self love. I truly don't know what it is.

Each of us has a unique beginning story where we learn to love and to be loved. In my own experience, many times, we do not learn that we are enough, and we do not learn that we deserve to be fully loved by others or by ourselves.

The thing to do, I am seeing, is to find ways not so much to understand this deficit model, but to overcome it.

I ask the question, too, where did all my love for others come from when I have felt unloved myself. I am finding the answers in spirituality. I believe that we each of us has in us the capacity to feel and do both good and bad. I think every second of life offers a choice. I think choosing "good" is a muscle that can be developed like any other. I think we can practice doing that in relationship to ourselves.

I can't wait for this social distancing to be over so I can find a good therapist.

Most therapists in my part of the country are "seeing" people by distance, such as online through Zoom where it's just like being there. That's what I am doing. The therapist I see will not under the current circumstances meet people in person. Maybe you can find a similar option.

To conclude, I think the issue is learning to exercise the kindness muscle towards yourself. You may have never decided that. Now may be the time.

 

[Copabanana]

as soon as I say or do something he doesn't like, it all comes out again in anger--"Why do you always....why are you always....

Gosh Beta, this is NOT good. I am thinking and thinking what you could do to not be subject to his tirades, and I can't come up with anything except like you say, to keep your distance. If at all possible could you minimize any interaction with him except what is essential? It's not right that you be scapegoated.

Yes, and it causes a lot of self-doubt and self-hate within us.

This is such a high price to pay.

My son has not done anything specifically directed at me but I am despondent at the situation, that I am caught in this spiral of insecurity and despair, at the effect of his cockamamie and irresponsible decisions. Again. After years of the same. I feel despair and self-hatred because I keep falling, and have so little control of the bottom line of my own life, if his stupidity can cause me to fall, like a domino.

I have no answers. None at all. We love them. We're connected to them at the deepest level of our being. Yesterday, I found myself wondering (again) if it wouldn't be possible to just decide to never see or speak with my son again, as a way to protect myself. How could I do it?

It just feels so very sad that 30 years of loving a child would come to wanting to never see and speak to him, out of a desperate wish to remain safe.

 

[Triedntrue]

I have also heard about therapists doing facebook or something similar. I am also considering calling my old therapist to see if she does. I agree with the way they can make us feel my sons current weapon is talking suicide. He has done this many times in past as well but i can't not reply to that.

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Ladies, I do appreciate you and yes, Love you...
It easy for me to speak my heart here but scary to respond to your heartache. I'm afraid I may say something wrong or that may hurt you instead of help you.
This is what my DCdren have done to me. Please don't you fall into that trap too.
Can you believe we fought about the shower the other day?
Yep, he turns on the shower then walks away leaving it running until he decides to get in. 10, 15, 20 minutes. I asked him not to do this.
It turned into an hour of yelling at me. Reminding me of what he thinks of me.

Beta, we don't get roped in, we are enjoying what we wish we had all the time.
Unfortunately, that's not the case but it does give us a little break.

Copa, your son has hurt you by making disappointing decisions that you know are not good for him.

These are our kids...and yes we love them.

I think part of the hurt we have also comes from us seeing their misery. We know they are not happy, not really and that hurts as much or more than the words or actions.

We all have so many emotions running through us. How can we make good decisions for ourselves in this environment?
How can we pull ourselves from captivity?

We lean on each other here. We love each other here. We escape with each other here.
When we leave here, we need to take what we have here with us. Use it to get through one day at a time.

We don't stop loving our children, like so many have taught me here, we learn to love ourselves.

I am working hard to do this and cannot let my small steps be crushed in the process. Protecting your feelings is so important during this journey.

With much love...

 

[Copabanana]

Yep, he turns on the shower then walks away leaving it running until he decides to get in. 10, 15, 20 minutes. I asked him not to do this.
It turned into an hour of yelling at me. Reminding me of what he thinks of me.

To me it all boils down to boundaries, boundaries in our own psyches and boundaries in our own space. Beta and OW are dealing with having opened their spaces to adult children who will not respect their boundaries. Either appropriate boundaries between adult people who share a space, or how to treat each other with respect and love.

Then where things careen out of control is intraspsychically, when our own internal boundaries break down, and we treat ourselves with unkindness and cruelty. A lack of compassion for ourselves turns into our punishing ourselves for our children's bad acts. To me this is to have poor internal boundaries.

OW. Why are these people still in your house? Have you given proper notice so as to begin legally mandated notice? I do not want to harp, but as long as you do not take steps to restore kindness and responsibility in your home, which is to say, get people out of there who lack self-control and self-monitoring, you will continue to suffer at their hands and your own. You blame yourself for their behavior. To me, the only responsibility you have is to decide to get them out.

These people are working, they have each other, they are competent. There is no earlhly reason you are responsible.

Beta and I both have had to deal with adult children who could not take care of themselves. Our decision to distance from them resulted in their being homeless and vulnerable. This is why, I think, we tolerate and tolerated for so long the agony of living close to them. Rightly or wrongly we could not bear to feel responsible for their vulnerability. In this sense your situation with your daughter is more similar to this.

Which is to say you've got your hands full.

I wish you'd get your son out of your house. He has no cause to berate you for anything. You have a right to control what happens in your home. He feels you don't. He feels he can control his own behavior, no matter how it affects you. And he feels on some level he can control you, and he does. This will never be reconciled. He needs to be on his own. Help him do that. Please.