Been a while, need some encouragement, tips

[TiredSoul]

I completely agree - you will not be able to parent this child with typical parenting methods. This child is not typical. Mom never set out to parent him this way - she is in survival mode. Trust me, I am in the same place. I don't think its simply a matter of making lists of infractions and consequences. That is typical parenting. It won't work. For example how do you ground him to his room for two days when he won't stay there and will destroy the place in the meantime? You cannot lock him up and even if you could, that wouldn't help HIM with his issues.

I wish I had answers. I have been searching for many many years - unsuccessfully.

Gotta go - drama is happening now! Good luck!

 

[ducky8888]

Yes, I have realized why she parented the way she did.

Can you explain to me your reasons for not making your child come home when you have discovered they had been misbehaving during the day? To me, allowing him to stay after being caught tells him (and the friend he is staying with) that he can misbehave and he can still do fun things. If pulling him from his sleep-over is not the right way to react, how would you handle it? What is an appropriate punishment for this?

I know dealing with a difficult child is different. After 13+ years of dealing with PCs its quite an adjustment and I am truly looking for this communities help. With my children I am strict (possibly too strict). I know what I would do with my son if he repeatedly kicked holes in the walls (he did this once and was grounded from everything until the hole was fixed). But it seems to me if our difficult child isnt punished and made to deal with the consequences of his actions, then he has no motivation to try to control his behavior.

Maybe you guys can give me some things your difficult child does and what you use as their repercussions? When I was at an IEP meeting (weekly with his school), the on site counselor gave some good advise about how to explain why he doesnt get to do things. He said instead of saying "you cant have ice cream because you've been rude" say instead "your behavior has not earned you ice cream". He says it is showing him that the ice cream is not something he ever had. I can see how this could work for your daily behavior issues, i.e. cursing, rude, yelling, even getting too physical. But how does that translate into more serious infractions, like holes in the walls ($180 each * 7) or stealing money and property? I think the more serious the "crime" the bigger the punishment.

 

[TiredSoul]

Rewards and punishments work great for typical kids. Not at all for my difficult child. A reward will not make him suddenly have the skills he needs to behave appropriately. Too many times of not being able to earn the reward (with-o gaining the lacking skills) will only damage his self esteem, cause depression, etc.

Maybe adjusting your expectations of what this "special needs" kid is capable of might help. Have you heard of Ross Greene? His theory is "kids do well if they CAN" - not kids do well if they want to. He most likely WANTS to and CAN'T because he is lacking the skills he needs to do so. Who wants to be in trouble all the time? Who wants punishment over reward? You cannot expect the same from him as the other typical children. If you are worried about fairness - talk to the other kids about it. "Fair" does not mean "same". This child already knows he is different and can't seem to behave appropriately to stay out of trouble.

His medications could be making him worse. I always say I want to try something other than the stimulants but it's so bad without them we never do. I am worried about adding an SSRI. It's a difficult thing.

Does he have anxiety? Does he need to feel in control? Can you get creative and find ways to help him feel in control (of certain things) and/or ways to lessen his anxiety?

About the sleep over you referenced - I probably would have done the same as your girlfriend (went and got it) but making him come home would not teach him not to do that again. It would a typical child - but he is not typical. Maybe the natural consequence of mom coming over and interrupting his fun and taking it away was enough. How to make sure it doesn't happen again - lock it up. Take the temptation away.

 

[TiredSoul]

Holes in walls and stealing - the natural consequence is that he pays for it. Does he get money for birthday gifts etc? My kids grandparents give them money for their savings account instead of gifts. Give him a choice - he can either hand over that money to pay for it or work it off.

 

[BusynMember]

And even if he pays for it, he will do it again.

Why is he getting no help? Why are't you gettig help to learn about his problems?

You are not even divorced yet and living with this woman and expect her to see t hings your way. Professionals know more than you. Why do't you cough up some money so he can get professional help rather than trying to parent him like there is nothing wrong with him. Are you here because your girlfriend disagrees with you? She's right.

You will never see good results without professionals involved and you don't get this child at all. Apprently, nobody does in his world.

 

[DammitJanet]

MWM, I think you are being way too hard on this poster. This is intended to be a soft place to land for battle weary parents.

I dont know how on earth anyone on here can make the leap that because he and his SO live together means he isnt divorced. Heck maybe he is a widower or *gasp* never married before to his kids mother. And really does it matter whether he is divorced or not? I had one child going into my current relationship - I was still married when I met him. We had one other child and I was pregnant with the third before my divorce finally came through. There has never been any case where my oldest child was treated any differently than his brothers. It didnt matter who was handling what...Dad was Dad and I was mom.

Now I can understand that there is a difference in a 2 and a half year old and a child that was 10 when this poster moved in with him. I am gonna lay money on the fact that these kids probably knew the poster before he showed up at the door with his bags packed and two kids in tow.

Because I have no clue how old this posters own children are I wouldnt even consider commenting on his decision to spank. Or even when he did it. I find it very hard to believe that there are many parents out there who havent swatted a hand or butt at some time in their lives. I have no clue how anyone teaches a toddler not to touch things they shouldnt without giving the hand a swat and telling them NO firmly at the same time. If that is abusive then most of America should be convicted.

To the original poster, I do think you are up against a very difficult child. I had one that didnt punish well at all. Like your's appears, mine wouldnt do groundings. He left when our backs were turned. You have to get inventive and found out what his currency is. Everyone has some type of currency. We go to work to earn money, we have a hobby because it brings us enjoyment. You have to figure out what makes this boy tick. If he is so into taking things apart and then trying to put them back together again, well how about checking to find out if you can find old TV's, radio's and even bikes that are being tossed in the trash. Let him go to town on those things. I had one son who took apart everything and tried to put it back together again. He wasnt trying to do something wrong, he wanted to know how things worked. We got him broken things and he learned to make one good thing out of lots of broken things. He eventually learned how to build his own computers. Maybe your boy would learn to make awesome bikes out of parts and pieces he takes off old broken bikes. You just never know.

I also think if your kids are all old enough, a chart with the house rules and what the consequences are if broken is a great idea. I would have all the kids involved in making the chart though. This makes it much easier for a parent to take the anger out of infractions. You just point at the chart and they know what the consequence is and they also know they had a hand in deciding what that consequence will be. Of course a difficult child is going to take more time for this to grab a hold of but even special needs kids do have to learn there are rules in life and what happens if they dont follow them.

*Good luck.

 

[BusynMember]

Skotti, I've read his posts before and I realize you think spanking is ok, but most of us are against it, especially for a kid with autism.

This man has only lived with his son for nine months and is not very kind about him. I see his girlfriend ignoring him and since he didn't say he was divorced, I'll assume I'm right unless he says otherwise. He has posted extensively to me.

At any rate, in a very constructive way, if these two don't come to a consensus, and it is very much up to the woman here, and if there is no outside help and if this kid goes to see his father every other weekend and gets beaten up and the girlfriend is not fighting for custody, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for the poor kid. To me this isn't about the man. It's about the child and he has nobody who is really doing anything constructive to help him. No professional who UNDERSTANDS autism, a new family dropped on him quickly (and autistic kids do not do well with change), a violent father and two people who just moved in together with the mom disregarding everything this guy says. Sounds like she realizes she's the one legally in charge and is exercising her rights. Is she doing the right thing? You know how much I feel autistic kids need interventions and she isn't giving him any. But the new boyfriend, and less than a year is new, has no better ideas either.

I'm not addressing this thread again, but I did want to respect you, Skotti, and respond because I *do* respect you. However, we disagree about whether or not ANYONE in this boys life is trying to help him. I don't see that anyone is. Coming to a forum helps us vent, but they all need to be on the kid's side, fathekr included, or Mom needs to fight for sole custody and maybe this boyfriend and his brood are not in the best interests of the child per the courts. We don't know a lot here. Lots being left out. Skot, you know I usually am kind to posters. This one doesn't seem to me like he is all that interested in helping the boy; just how to punish him.

Well, my phone is ringing. This will be my last words. I did give good advice.

See ya!!!!

 

[TiredSoul]

MWM - hypothetically let's say he gets a neuropsychologist evaluation and they diagnosis Autism or Asperger's - then what? What kind of interventions would be helpful in this situation? People on this forum often say labels can help you know what you are dealing with. But then what? What works for kids like this? I can't seem to find any real concrete examples of how to deal with or correct this type of behavior. Is the label just to help the parent have more realistic expectations and to get accommodations in school? How does the behavior ever change and the family go on to have a functional home life?

 

[DammitJanet]

Jules, I dont think there is any one size fits all accommodations for any diagnosis. What works for one kid might not work for another. Everyone is an individual and you have to take that into account. For instance MWM and I have very similar diagnosis but what she takes for it would send me flying. I dont think she could take what I take either.

*It pretty much works that way in many things. Some people are visual learners, some auditory and some lucky ones are both!

 

[TiredSoul]

I guess I am wondering what you do after you get the diagnosis/label. Does a therapist work extensively to come up with ways that would work for the kid/family so he can learn to behave appropriately? What about those who don't use tdocs? What strategies work for difficult, easily frustrated, angry kids? I read a lot of great theory but have a hard time knowing how to apply it.

Ex. You need the child to (insert task here - clean up their mess, do homework, stop hitting, etc.). They refuse. The more you attempt, the more their behavior escalates. What do you do to ultimately get them to do it? You want them to, they don't = power struggle.

 

[Wiped Out]

First off, welcome Ducky 8888. Hopefully you will find much support here; this is meant to be a soft place to land.

Jules-Good question. When my difficult child was young there wasn't much we could do when he didn't want to do it. He basically had no control over himself and try as we might if he didn't want to do something or stop doing something there was not a lot we could do. The Explosive Child did help some but we had to basket C everything except for violence. After he was on medications that helped (along with some maturity and lots of therapy) we could work on things. Then we could basket B more things.

 

[roxy]

I think she would/should be more likely to listen to a man who loves her and is trying to be a partner in helping her in an exhausting situation instead of some strangers on the internet, however well intentioned.

 

[DammitJanet]

Roxy, personally I dont try to tell anyone what they should do or attempt to tell anyone what diagnosis someone has. I do attempt to share my experiences in my life with both me and my children. If something helps someone, great, if not thats okay too but I want everyone to know they have been heard and someone out there is willing to listen.

We are not doctors so no one should take our advice as gospel. Best thing for anyone is to have doctor's on board.

 

[TiredSoul]

Jules-Good question. When my difficult child was young there wasn't much we could do when he didn't want to do it. He basically had no control over himself and try as we might if he didn't want to do something or stop doing something there was not a lot we could do. The Explosive Child did help some but we had to basket C everything except for violence. After he was on medications that helped (along with some maturity and lots of therapy) we could work on things. Then we could basket B more things.

Thanks WO. So medications, therapy, and maturity... I keep praying for the maturity. Don't know what to do about the medications. Talk therapy didn't do a thing. <sigh>

 

[Wiped Out]

Jules, I never felt like therapy was helping until the medications and maturity started to kick in (which for him was when he started high school and it is still a very s.l.o.w. process but hopefully it will continue.

 

[Liahona]

There are some ideas that the autism specialist suggested and they did work. There are other things she suggested that haven't worked. With difficult child 1 though nothing worked for years until he went to Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Before that I had to listen to my mommy gut. So we did time outs for years without seeing any improvement because that is what my mommy gut said he needed. We fought the food issues even though that could've made it worse. We medicated. We did natural consequences when ever possible. And ya know what? After years eventually it started to work. I don't know if it is because he just needed more time or what. And we aren't out of the woods by a long shot, but we are much better off than we were a few years ago. With difficult child 2 and difficult child 3 the diagnosis helped direct us to what would work. With difficult child 1 it didn't.

When I suggested they write things down I wasn't saying the child should be in that mtg. I thought it would help him and his girlfriend get on the same page.

 

[ducky8888]

I guess I am wondering what you do after you get the diagnosis/label. Does a therapist work extensively to come up with ways that would work for the kid/family so he can learn to behave appropriately? What about those who don't use tdocs? What strategies work for difficult, easily frustrated, angry kids? I read a lot of great theory but have a hard time knowing how to apply it.

Ex. You need the child to (insert task here - clean up their mess, do homework, stop hitting, etc.). They refuse. The more you attempt, the more their behavior escalates. What do you do to ultimately get them to do it? You want them to, they don't = power struggle.

Jules,

What I have noticed with our difficult child is that he is extremely defiant. If there is nothing in the task for him he refuses to do it (i.e. we got a new trampoline and I said no one is jumping until.... he was very quick to get stuff done, although too quick and it had to be redone several times). What I have found that works for him most of the time is walking away. This is one of my biggest struggles. I want to fight until my request is started. For example, if I want the trash taken out, I will say "Hey, I need you to take the trash out." the response is always "No!" sometimes followed by "my brother hasnt..., its unfair..... i dont want to....etc." So what I then do is, there is always something he wants/wants to do, so i use that and I say "thats fine, if the trash is not taken out, you will not be able to...." then I stop. I dont mention it again. Sometimes he throws a ft about it, but he usually gives in and I see him going to take it out. The hard part for me is that I want to see action as soon as I make the request, and if it isnt getting done right now, I get irritated.

 

[BusynMember]

You are trying to parent him like he is your every day kid. He is differently wired and will not respond to typical parenting. You can do this all day or all year and it will never work. YOu need professional help and your girl needs to step up and get this boy away from his father and this father needs to stop beating his kid. You don't know what is wrong with him and you keep trying the same methods over and over again and they don't work. We have all been there.

You can't do it alone. Your girl needs to get a spine and go to court against the abusive ex or nothing will help him. There. You got the same advice I'd give anyone else. And if you don't take the advice, more or less, nothing will change because he isn't your easy child and he's not a "bad" kid. He is both disturbed because of his chaotic life, which probably predates you, and on top of that MAY have complications such as autism thrown in there.

He is crying out for help, but discipline alone will do nothing, as you have seen. Getting tough on a differently wired kid, other than beating him into terror (and he'll get you in the end anyway) will not help him. Often, teens who have been beaten, have no problem slamming the older dad into the wall with a fist. Also, they can learn to beat anyone who they get angry at. This doesn't happen to all abused kids, but it affects all of them in very negative ways and they learn very poor coping skills.

You can't do it without experts and with changes in his life. His life clearly is not in his best interests on every front (not you, EVERYONE). His parents are failing him and maybe you can drill it into your girlfriend's head that she needs to take the beater to court or call CPS or the cops or do something to stop the boy from having to see him. If he comes back from Dads even with a small bruise, take him to the doctor. Take a picture of it. No child should show ANY mark from being hit and the court will look poorly at a child being bruised by his father, especially multiple times. But your girl needs to build the stones to take action or she is inadvertantly aiding this abusive father in his abuse.

I suggest "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene in the meantime. Good luck...this is a very complicated situation and a very disturbed kid with inborn problems and life problems as well.

 

[SuZir]

I want to fight until my request is started. For example, if I want the trash taken out, I will say "Hey, I need you to take the trash out." the response is always "No!" sometimes followed by "my brother hasnt..., its unfair..... i dont want to....etc." So what I then do is, there is always something he wants/wants to do, so i use that and I say "thats fine, if the trash is not taken out, you will not be able to...." then I stop. I dont mention it again. Sometimes he throws a ft about it, but he usually gives in and I see him going to take it out. The hard part for me is that I want to see action as soon as I make the request, and if it isnt getting done right now, I get irritated.

You have clearly been thinking how to parent him and I think you are in right track. It is indeed most often not worth it to make a fight about starting a chore immediately. And I very well understand how annoying letting it go can be. But often it works better to try to lessen the power struggles. Some planning helps you avoiding those nasty situations all together.

For my family it helped that we tried to avoid asking our kids to do something without warning. Especially difficult child's first reaction to anything tended to be no, and still is. You really could had made a fight out of offering him ice cream (he has always adored that stuff), if you wouldn't give him time to consider the offer. Chores were mostly scheduled. At mornings you have to do this and that (get dressed, make a bed, brush teeth, brush hair) before you will get breakfast." "At Mondays after school you have to do this and that before you can do x"" (something he liked) and so on. And when absolutely having to ask them to do something that were not in schedule, we gave warnings. "I need you to do this and that soon", "You could do that now or bit later, but before x" and so on. And if something had to be done right then, we expected a meltdown and were ready to carry him where we needed him.

 

[Nanaby3]

I have never replied or posted before but I would like to say that I understand what you are going through. Sadly, I couldn't get my fiancé to follow any type of structure with his son and I couldn't have the boy in my house any longer. My SS13 (step son) is exactly the same way. I locked up everything that I didn't want ruined and even had to hide my grandkids clothes and toys in my bedroom because SS13 would trash everyones stuff and his own. He physically assaulted his sister almost everyday. He would hug our 100lb dog and act like he was being nice and then the dog would yelp because the boy would pinch him on his belly or privates. I once caught him holding the dog and then kneeing him in the privates.

3 years ago, my 3 stepkids were taken from The Mom because of abuse and neglect and living with registered sex offenders. For a year, they only saw her 2 hours a week in supervised visits. She never did what the judge ordered so she never regained full custody of the kids. The only home these kids had were in my home. I have owned that home for 25 years and Dad had lived with me for 5 years before this. I did 95% of the care of raising on the step kids. I was met with much abuse from the kids and Dad didn't parent them at all. He talked to them, never gave a consequence for misbehaving. He left them to their own devices many times until the screaming became too much to ignore.So even though I too was just a step parent, I did more with the kids than Mom or Dad ever did.

I had to have him removed from my home and he went back to live with The Mom. The Dad could have moved out and got his own place with his kids, but he honestly couldn't afford to not work and provide for them. The Mom started calling the cops because of his behavior. SS was starting to hit his Grandfather and throwing rocks through windows. Now SS is legally in the state system and he did have to go to juvie for a few months, but the finally have him placed in a treatment center (well he goes in August). Our state is so screwed up or have so many kids that aren't parented, he still hasn't had an evaluation down with a psyche place.

In fact, his dad rented a nice cabin on a lake for this week to take his kids on a little vacation, something they have never really had. He wanted to go to the beach but he wanted to start with something safer because of his son's behavior. SS13 had a major meltdown out of nowhere this morning. He started throwing his clothes, fishing poles and my couch cushions over our bank onto the road. Dad had to take the boy back to The Mom, and SS took off his seatbelt and tried Occupational Therapist (OT) open the car door while it was moving. Dad said he almost had a very bad wreck trying to stop in the middle of the interstate to keep the boy in the car. Dad and his daughter ended up going on the vacation, but I know Dad will be miserable because SS is the apple of his eye.

Sorry for my personal rant there but you have gotten some good advice. If your girlfriend is not going to step up and get the boy the help he needs, then maybe it needs to be taken to a higher level with the authorities or CPS (Childrens Services). It seems that is the only way SS was able to finally get some help from someone. They all thought he could control it too.

One day this boy is going to physically harm one of his siblings or one of your own kids. If he would hurt one of your kids, you may not be able to hold yourself back. If it is serious enough, he could end up with a felony charge and not get any help thru the courts.