difficult child in neighbor's closet (long)
- Thread starter TerryJ2
- Start date
gcvmom
Here we go again!
Terry, I just want to say we've had lingerie problems in our house too. For several months last year, difficult child 1 was taking my bra and panites and his dad caught him wearing them under his clothes at one point. Now, as far as we know, difficult child 1 is NOT bipolar, but he definitely has ADHD and he definitely has anxiety issues. I don't think he's done this in a while.
We do have a family member whom I would characterize as hypersexual with some obsessive behaviors that perhaps further support my suspicion of bipolar or mood disorder at the very least. This person's moods were directly linked to whether or not they were able to act on their obsession -- like an addiction of sorts. They've never sought therapy for it, but they are on a mood stabilizer which seems to have taken the edge off things to the point that it doesn't seem to be an all-consuming issue.
I guess my point here is to say I'd definitely hit this issue hard and fast because in my opinion, once patterns become set, it is VERY, VERY difficult to change wiring.
I think whether your difficult child is ADHD or BiPolar (BP), both disorders can play into the kind of behaviors you're seeing.
Hang in there, warrior mom! Polish up the armor and dust off that sword...
We do have a family member whom I would characterize as hypersexual with some obsessive behaviors that perhaps further support my suspicion of bipolar or mood disorder at the very least. This person's moods were directly linked to whether or not they were able to act on their obsession -- like an addiction of sorts. They've never sought therapy for it, but they are on a mood stabilizer which seems to have taken the edge off things to the point that it doesn't seem to be an all-consuming issue.
I guess my point here is to say I'd definitely hit this issue hard and fast because in my opinion, once patterns become set, it is VERY, VERY difficult to change wiring.
I think whether your difficult child is ADHD or BiPolar (BP), both disorders can play into the kind of behaviors you're seeing.
Hang in there, warrior mom! Polish up the armor and dust off that sword...
smallworld
Moderator
Terry, I'm sorry for your "terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day" (credit: Judith Viorst). I hope things look brigher in the morning.
Sleeping after a rage is more consistent with seizures than BiPolar (BP). Or it can just be fatigue from expending all that energy.
I don't think you can assume this is hypersexuality until you know your difficult child's intent in taking the panties.
There is a 14-year-old boy on a BiPolar (BP) parents listserv I moderate who has had ongoing problems with surfing porn websites and lying about it. He has not learned easily from rigorous consequences imposed on him. His parents strongly believe these symptoms are related more closely to his Aspergers diagnosis than to his mood dysregulation. The way they describe it, it is his "cluelessness" about societal norms that causes these behaviors. I mention this not to serve as an armchair diagnostician but to offer another perspective on what might be going on.
I strongly recommend a thorough re-evaluation of what's going on with your difficult child. There are too many warning signs to ignore. Only with the proper diagnosis will you be able to put the appropriate interventions into place to help your difficult child.
Good luck.
Sleeping after a rage is more consistent with seizures than BiPolar (BP). Or it can just be fatigue from expending all that energy.
I don't think you can assume this is hypersexuality until you know your difficult child's intent in taking the panties.
There is a 14-year-old boy on a BiPolar (BP) parents listserv I moderate who has had ongoing problems with surfing porn websites and lying about it. He has not learned easily from rigorous consequences imposed on him. His parents strongly believe these symptoms are related more closely to his Aspergers diagnosis than to his mood dysregulation. The way they describe it, it is his "cluelessness" about societal norms that causes these behaviors. I mention this not to serve as an armchair diagnostician but to offer another perspective on what might be going on.
I strongly recommend a thorough re-evaluation of what's going on with your difficult child. There are too many warning signs to ignore. Only with the proper diagnosis will you be able to put the appropriate interventions into place to help your difficult child.
Good luck.
smallworld
Moderator
Also wanted to add: Many kids eat like crazy when their ADHD stimulants wear off. It's because stimulants suppress their appetites and they eat barely antying all day. When the medications wear off at the end of the day, they are absolutely ravenous and eat like there's no tomorrow.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I actually do feel there is at least some bipolar there, but maybe Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) too. Stimulants can even make mood disordered kids worse. Hyperness is a big symptom in both bipolar and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). You can not assume it is ADHD alone. His symptoms are far too extreme. At any rate, I have a few site you can look at if you like. Don't be afraid. It's better to know, and get help, than to NOT know and have your child doing things like he is. I can't imagine that a competent professional would chalk all this up to ADHD/ODD. My son is on the autism spectrum and would know better than to go into somebody's house if he wasn't invited and would NEVER take underwear...yikes...and his diagnosis is more severe than ADHD/ODD. Please, please, please...for your son's sake and your own too...look beyond. It's so much better to be safe than sorry. Things escalate, as you see, if the kids are misdiagnosed. Ok, here are the sites I promised you. Both are very good.
http://www.thebalancedmind.org/learn/library/about-pediatric-bipolar-disorder
http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html
http://www.thebalancedmind.org/learn/library/about-pediatric-bipolar-disorder
http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html
F
flutterbee
Guest
Terry, I'm so sorry this is happening.
((((((hugs))))))
((((((hugs))))))
M
ML
Guest
It's possible that any type of cross dressing (if there was any) is a sensory thing. My difficult child who has the diagnosis adhd and anxiety (but I have no doubt is also on the spectrum) was dressing in my clothes from about the time he was 4 to 8. He told me he enjoyed the feel of the fabric on his skin. He doesn't do it anymore and gets mad if I even bring it up. It's not cool now. I made myself crazy for a time, checked out cross dresser websites and went worst case scenario which is something I'm working on not doing so much any more.
Definitely the going into the neighbor's houses is the bigger issue. I know you will address those boundaries and consequences.
He's probably just so embarassed and doesn't understand why he's doing these things. I would give him extra love and acceptance as you try to get him to express what's going on.
I agree that you can't allow this to shake the foundation of your world. Sure, the issues are serious but you are dealing with it. Deep breaths and a bubble bath with a cup,of lavendar tea would be a good way to end the day.
Hugs
Michele
Definitely the going into the neighbor's houses is the bigger issue. I know you will address those boundaries and consequences.
He's probably just so embarassed and doesn't understand why he's doing these things. I would give him extra love and acceptance as you try to get him to express what's going on.
I agree that you can't allow this to shake the foundation of your world. Sure, the issues are serious but you are dealing with it. Deep breaths and a bubble bath with a cup,of lavendar tea would be a good way to end the day.
Hugs
Michele
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Terry, just want to lend my support.
amazeofgrace
A maze of Grace - that about sums it up
so sorry, I would be alarmed about the panties and the porn at this young age, as well as the trespassing, they are all indicators of a variety of alarming possible diagnosis.
<<<HUGS>>> prayers coming your way
<<<HUGS>>> prayers coming your way
Rannveig
Member
Hi, Terry, I'm new to posting here but was struck by your thread as it reminded me of a story I read in the Washington Post a couple of years ago. There was this CIA employee (an unfortunate coincidence) who was breaking into homes in a wealthy Washington suburb and stealing women's underwear and other stuff. I just Googled the article, and there was a psychiatrist who said there was nothing sexual about it but that the guy somehow received comfort from the objects. An expert also said he had schizotypal personality disorder and had trouble forming relationships (though, as it happened, he was married with two children). I just thought this (a personality/attachment issue rather than a mood issue) might be a path for you to explore.
Something else that struck me in what you wrote was that your son apparently put all these things in the laundry (that you yourself do for the family). Sounds to me like a cry for help, since he was thus bound to be found out. And that's a GOOD thing, right?
I'm sorry for your pain in going through this, and I hope you soon find some helpful answers.
All best wishes, Ranny
Something else that struck me in what you wrote was that your son apparently put all these things in the laundry (that you yourself do for the family). Sounds to me like a cry for help, since he was thus bound to be found out. And that's a GOOD thing, right?
I'm sorry for your pain in going through this, and I hope you soon find some helpful answers.
All best wishes, Ranny
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
Thank you all.
The psychiatric called back. (He is a child psychologist.) He was at the airport, so I really appreciated the fact that he called me between flights.
I tired to keep it short, but when I got to the part where I said that the neighbor came home unexpectedly and found Chris in her closet, he said, "Wow."
Several points: This is extremely dangerous because people carry guns in their homes. But difficult child has been choosing "benign" neighbors so far, the psychiatric pointed out, so that's helpful.
He doesn't know if the sexuality is driving the dangerous boundary crossing issue or vice versa or something else altogehter. That's what we have to find out. He knows a prof who deals in kids with-sexual issues so he's going to consult with-him. (I'm not sure if he's still in practice and since our dr was at the airport I didn't press the issue--we just brainstormed.)
In the meantime, we're mostly going to deal with-the trust, boundary, and freedom issues, especially since we just finished up a session where difficult child begged us for more freedom to run around the neighborhood.
The dr said he's going to mull it over and give me a call back. And of course, our next appointment. will be about boundary issues and lying. I'm wonderng if I should call the ofc and book a dbl appointment. IOW, instead of 45 min., book 1-1/2 hrs. I suspect difficult child will have a meltdown and I hate to leave in the middle of it.
The psychiatric said difficult child really pulled the wool over our eyes, insisting that he was old enough to roam the neighborhood by himself, and is going to have to earn back his freedom.
I told the dr that I am making difficult child my shadow, and he either stays home with-me or runs errands with-me. He said that was an excellent idea, and suggested "The 10-ft Rule." You can't be farther than 10 ft way from a parent.
husband thinks we should use a carrot approach, and if difficult child is good tomorrow, they could watch wrestling. That's their Fri night thing.
What does "Good" constitute? If he's with-me all day, he's not going to be taking anyone else's stuff!
difficult child thinks his consequence should be no TV--not even wrestling--or computer for 4 wks.
Hmm. Interesting. I like the idea of grounding him from those, but I think it should only be a wk. I think it would impact him more to lose his freedom to go to his friend's houses unsupervised. He hates being treated like a little kid but he has certainly not acted like a mature adult--or teen--lately.
One advantage to being off TV and computer games for a wk is that they wiill allow him to finish his assigned summer reading. (Except that he's only been reading since yesterday and is almost finished with-all 3 books so I'll have to come up with-more books). Now, if he develops an obsession for reading, that is fine by me!
easy child and I went through the pile of panties (probably $75 worth) and she is such a clothes horse, she picked out which Victoria's Secret items were winter purchases, which were summer 07 or summer 08, etc. Some were from the Gap. She also pointed out that there were a variety of sizes--the small and xs were younger patterns, polka dots and some monkey character--and the larger sizes were wider bands and very lacy. And the in-between sizes were thongs.
I am really hoping they came from camp ... not that I want to think about difficult child going through the girls' duffle bags, or even the counselors', but selfishly, I won't have to deal with-returning them.
Yes, it is partially a sensory issue. But I had written about this a few wks ago, and everyone suggested I buy difficult child his own set. So I did. He never used them. He seems to like the fact that someone else has worn them.
I like Scarlet O'Hara's thinking: "Tomorrow I'll think about it. Tomorrow is another day."
The psychiatric called back. (He is a child psychologist.) He was at the airport, so I really appreciated the fact that he called me between flights.
I tired to keep it short, but when I got to the part where I said that the neighbor came home unexpectedly and found Chris in her closet, he said, "Wow."
Several points: This is extremely dangerous because people carry guns in their homes. But difficult child has been choosing "benign" neighbors so far, the psychiatric pointed out, so that's helpful.
He doesn't know if the sexuality is driving the dangerous boundary crossing issue or vice versa or something else altogehter. That's what we have to find out. He knows a prof who deals in kids with-sexual issues so he's going to consult with-him. (I'm not sure if he's still in practice and since our dr was at the airport I didn't press the issue--we just brainstormed.)
In the meantime, we're mostly going to deal with-the trust, boundary, and freedom issues, especially since we just finished up a session where difficult child begged us for more freedom to run around the neighborhood.
The dr said he's going to mull it over and give me a call back. And of course, our next appointment. will be about boundary issues and lying. I'm wonderng if I should call the ofc and book a dbl appointment. IOW, instead of 45 min., book 1-1/2 hrs. I suspect difficult child will have a meltdown and I hate to leave in the middle of it.
The psychiatric said difficult child really pulled the wool over our eyes, insisting that he was old enough to roam the neighborhood by himself, and is going to have to earn back his freedom.
I told the dr that I am making difficult child my shadow, and he either stays home with-me or runs errands with-me. He said that was an excellent idea, and suggested "The 10-ft Rule." You can't be farther than 10 ft way from a parent.
husband thinks we should use a carrot approach, and if difficult child is good tomorrow, they could watch wrestling. That's their Fri night thing.
What does "Good" constitute? If he's with-me all day, he's not going to be taking anyone else's stuff!
difficult child thinks his consequence should be no TV--not even wrestling--or computer for 4 wks.
Hmm. Interesting. I like the idea of grounding him from those, but I think it should only be a wk. I think it would impact him more to lose his freedom to go to his friend's houses unsupervised. He hates being treated like a little kid but he has certainly not acted like a mature adult--or teen--lately.
One advantage to being off TV and computer games for a wk is that they wiill allow him to finish his assigned summer reading. (Except that he's only been reading since yesterday and is almost finished with-all 3 books so I'll have to come up with-more books). Now, if he develops an obsession for reading, that is fine by me!
easy child and I went through the pile of panties (probably $75 worth) and she is such a clothes horse, she picked out which Victoria's Secret items were winter purchases, which were summer 07 or summer 08, etc. Some were from the Gap. She also pointed out that there were a variety of sizes--the small and xs were younger patterns, polka dots and some monkey character--and the larger sizes were wider bands and very lacy. And the in-between sizes were thongs.
I am really hoping they came from camp ... not that I want to think about difficult child going through the girls' duffle bags, or even the counselors', but selfishly, I won't have to deal with-returning them.
Yes, it is partially a sensory issue. But I had written about this a few wks ago, and everyone suggested I buy difficult child his own set. So I did. He never used them. He seems to like the fact that someone else has worn them.
I like Scarlet O'Hara's thinking: "Tomorrow I'll think about it. Tomorrow is another day."
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
In response to several people here who mentioned cycling, I can see the similarities and it may be bipolar ... but isn't it a coincidence that he's only "manic" when the pill wears off 12 hrs after he's taken it?
Or when he hasn't taken it at all?
Or is it considered manic when he gets obsessed with-something and keeps doing it? That sounds more like an aspie to me.
I'll see what the psychiatric recommends.
Or when he hasn't taken it at all?
Or is it considered manic when he gets obsessed with-something and keeps doing it? That sounds more like an aspie to me.
I'll see what the psychiatric recommends.
threebabygirls
New Member
I realize this is slightly off-topic, but how on Earth are you going to be able to figure out what belongs to whom, and return the undies to the "rightful owners?" I don't know what I would do in your situation, so I'm curious to see what you will do. As I'm relatively new to this world of "kids with issues" I really have no idea what I'd do. Every time I think I've finally got my head above water and know how I'll respond to the different trials difficult child presents, she comes up with a new one.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I have a son on the Spectrum. I think your son could be on it, but I don't think that's the whole thing. I don't know if he has bipolar either. I don't know WHAT is wrong, I just think it's way beyond ADHD. I'm not sure it's all a psychiatric problem though. The behavior is so "out there" that I'd do the neuropsychologist evaluation again. I truly, truly, truly do not believe either a regular psychologist can figure this one out. After all, he has alredy fooled this psychologist and the psychologist has been wrong. I also don't like him treating it as a behavioral issue. It's way beyond that too. I think your son can be helped, but I think that, since he's getting older, time is running out...it will only get worse. And at this point I'd be asking for a head-to-toe neuropsychologist evaluation. Stealing woman's clothing can be a fetish. You need to know what is going on so you can help him.
As for the pills wearing off and that's when he does this stuff, stimulants can make mood disordered kids cycle like crazy and get even worse. That would make me think that this is going on and Iwould wonder if stimulants or Straterra are the ticket for this child. Maybe part of the problem is that he's on the wrong type of medication. I do not feel this is a simple case of poor impulse control or boundary issues. in my opinion he has some sort of disorder and it is getting worse. (((Hugs))) Take care and good luck.
As for the pills wearing off and that's when he does this stuff, stimulants can make mood disordered kids cycle like crazy and get even worse. That would make me think that this is going on and Iwould wonder if stimulants or Straterra are the ticket for this child. Maybe part of the problem is that he's on the wrong type of medication. I do not feel this is a simple case of poor impulse control or boundary issues. in my opinion he has some sort of disorder and it is getting worse. (((Hugs))) Take care and good luck.
We are just starting to be able to pick out the cycling in my son who is bipolar. For many years it just looked liked extreme hyperactivity and major impulse control isues, now I can see the manic response much more clearly and his depression comes across as more irritability/ODD behaviors, he doesn't stay on one activity, he's indecisive, and difficult. Both the mania and depression can lead to explosive behaviors. Mood changes can occur several times in one day in a bipolar child.
I know you are on top of this situation and will seek the answers for your son. Good luck.
Christy
I know you are on top of this situation and will seek the answers for your son. Good luck.
Christy
L
luvmyottb
Guest
Terry,
Hugs to you and your family. Just wanted to lend support. Take care.
Hugs to you and your family. Just wanted to lend support. Take care.
busywend
Well-Known Member
TJ2, maybe you know this already, if so just ignore. But, I felt an urge to write it our for you just in case.
I just wanted to point out that your BiPolar (BP) adult friend may be right for adult BiPolar (BP) - but bipolar manifests differently in children. So, you can not take his thoughts for fact. I am sure he is right in his own ways, but do not discount anything because the adult BiPolar (BP) friend says it is not like that for him.
I just wanted to point out that your BiPolar (BP) adult friend may be right for adult BiPolar (BP) - but bipolar manifests differently in children. So, you can not take his thoughts for fact. I am sure he is right in his own ways, but do not discount anything because the adult BiPolar (BP) friend says it is not like that for him.
