difficult child never changes......

[standswithcourage]

Thanks so much for your advice. Today is my daughers birthday. She is at the lake with hubby and friends. I have been putting together a picture album for her - it was started by my mother. I look at the photos of our family together - having fun - at the beach, camping, birthday parties, just hanging out, christmas, etc. and it makes me sad to think that one of my children went astray and we couldnt get him back. It is the most helpless feeling but I have to remain the way I am - it makes me anxious when I see the pictures and I want to go call and find him - husband says no - it just brings about more problems and that is the way he gets his "hooks" in me. I am so sad for that - anyway - thanks for everything.

 

[Andy]

Happy Birthday to your daughter. I hope she has a great day.

I totally understand about the pictures. I have an undone album of diva's simply because I can not face the attitude she has turned into. She was such a happy child who turned into an nasty mouthed teenage daughter. Someday I think I will be able to finish it.

Remember, while you are shutting that door on difficult child, you are not closing your love. You are DEMANDING the respect you deserve. Send the message that as a person, you get to choose how you will be treated and YOU choose not to put up with how he is treating you.

As someone mentioned earlier, you are still parenting while demonstrating how a person should live and be treated. And the point was brought up by that same person that you need to show him how to treat women. I never thought about it like that, however, boys will treat women the same way they treat their mothers.

Continue to stay strong. Focus on yourself and strengthening those boundaries of respect.

 

[witzend]

I really wish you would look at those pictures and not be sad. You actually haven't lost anything yet. Your son is still here. You might not like him or what he does but he's still here. None of us on PE have the children we thought we would or the children that they were when they were 9 years old.

Every time you write you say "It makes me sad to think of what it was." "It makes me sad to see us before." "It makes me sad to remember teaching him to tie his shoes." Were those really happy times? Because all of it makes you sad. When all of the good things in your life make you sad, you're usually clinically depressed. Did you see that doctor yet?

He's 25 -26 and has been doing drugs since he was 15 and you have been sad the whole time. My uncle was a full grown alcoholic half gallon of vodka a day (other than the two months he was in a coma when his liver shut down in 1991) man from before he was drafted into WWII until he died in 2003 when he was 83 years old. That's 60 years. What if your son lives to be an 83 year old lying thief junkie. Are you going to waste 70 years of your life being sad that it's not like when he was 8 years old? It's just not rational or healthy.

Enjoy your daughter's birthday, then make that appointment with your therapist you keep promising us you'll make. I imagine it will be just like last year and the year before when you waited until July and she doesn't have any appointments until September and then you don't make the appointment because you're back teaching again in September. Hint - ask for an evening appointment. Then it won't matter. But get some help, please?

 

[goldenguru]

I get what you're saying stands. Looking at pictures makes me very nostalgic/sad too. For me - it is that I miss that season of my life. I miss when my kids were little. I miss when life felt alot more carefree. I miss the little people that they were.

Here's the problem with that 'looking back' mentality. 10 years from now when you look at pictures of today - you'll be sad because you didn't enjoy the joys that this day brought. You'll look back and say to yourself "I missed the joy of my daughters birthday because I was so sad about difficult child". Every day brings it's joy and sadness. Try to enjoy every day for the joy it brings you. Live more in the moment. Hope this makes sense -

 

[standswithcourage]

Well I went over to feed my daughters dogs and they walked in while I was there. I gave her the picture album, her present and a card. She seemed to love it. I believe we can only say some things with material things but when we have real memories in pictures that is much more to me. difficult child called right before I went over there. he was asking if someone could come and pick him up - he had been at another friends house where we have told him not to go for years - I am not getting caught upin his "game" as he puts it anymore - I told him no - it was his sisters birthday and Iw as going over there - he begins to plead - I am thirsty -blah, blah - I said get some water where you are calling from I am sure they will give you some - also get a ride from them - you shouldnt be where you are anyway - so that is your problem - i love you bye - well then he called while I was at the gym after daughter thing - but he had gotten to our house and couldnt get in - hubby and easy child son were gone - so he was probably mad about it - but oh well - I cant come running to his rescue - he shouldnt count on me - especially after he called me those names to one of his drug dealers - I am just scum of the earth to him - then he wants to get real nice when he wants to come to our neighborhood and do work for people - that may have been just a ploy - also we dont know what he might have had on his person such as pills or pot - I imagine that is why he wanted a ride - not to mention that it is about 8 miles. So he is not here.

 

[susiestar]

I am lgad you were able to enjoy giving your daughter the album.

Did you realize that you mentioned your daughter in only 3 sentences simply because difficult child called you? Don't listen to why he is calling. It is NONE of your business. Just hang up when you hear his voice if you answer and it is him. If you recognize the number, don't hang up.

Did you make that therapist appointment?

Do you care about your daughter and non-druggie son? You are spending so much time being sad that I am willing to bet that they feel ignored or slighted. You speak of your son with so much passion, he is your "first love" and he was "all you ever needed".

What message do you send your other kids when you speak so passionately about your difficult child and barely acknowledge them? For Christmas sake, it was your daughter's BIRTHDAY and you could not even hang up on difficult child with-o seeing what he wanted.

You husband is right. Don't call difficult child. Don't see difficult child. Stop answering the dang phone and/or listening to any message he leaves. HE NEEDS THIS. So do you and the rest of your family.

Does your husband know that you consider your CHILD your "first love"? You have mentioned it in so many posts that I cannot help but wonder how ignored and slighted your husband must feel. Did you just marry him for his ability to father a child? If you love or loved him, you sure show it in funny ways.

I was passionate about Wiz. Our bond is still so very close in many ways. But I am also passionate about Jessie and thank you. I would NEVER have allowed my oldest to dominate my life so completely. Because I was just as passionate about husband and the rest of my life. It is almost like your other kids only matter when they interact with difficult child.

And even knowing how difficult child behaves you were upset your daughter didn't have him at the wedding. WOW. Talk about sending "you are not good enough for my time to matter or my life to matter!" You poor daughter must be so terribly sick of the hold difficult child has on you. Your other son may have just given up when he realized he doesn't matter.

THAT is the message YOU SEND. It is ALL about difficult child. That is CRUEL. Just plain CRUEL to your other kids and husband. They just do not matter.

You only mention husband when he says or does something about/with difficult child. Same for younger son.

I really hope you can think about this and act in ways that show your passion and love to your husband and younger son and daughter. Because I guaran-dang-tee they are sick to death of difficult child and "poor difficult child has to walk" and "poor difficult child this" and "poor difficult child that".

You NEED to go to the therapist. AND AL Anon. One is not a substitute for teh other. These are the keys to getting back your life. Don't throw your other family away.

 

[standswithcourage]

I wont! I am going to a therapist tomorrow at 4:30 and then to Alanon. I didnt mention difficult child anymore anddefinately not to my daughter. difficult child called his brother not me but asked to speak to me - easy child son just called my name and said mom phone - when I answered it was him - I told him I was going to be with my daughter and I did - he called again and I didnt answer the phone - I feel good about it to. I dont feel like he wants anything for any good reason and certainly not for the reason I want him to - however, let me get something straight - he is not my "first love" my husband is and he knows it - I guess what Iw as trying to say was he was my first child and I loved him so much before I had other children - he always seemed to struggle with everything whereas my others didnt - I have to think that my daughter is the best socially and physically - I always told her that but she got tired of me trying to save him I know - that was my fault - I am not going to do that again - I dont want to lose her nor any of my family - I am not near as worried as I used to be - you have given good advice Susiestar. Thanks

 

[susiestar]

AWESOME!!! The therapist AND AlAnon in the same day! I also saw your post about your beautiful daughter. I am glad you can see what I meant, and that you can see how the others in the family must feel.

Your easy child probably couldn't get off the phone fast unless he passed the phone to you. In the future as him who it is, and if it is difficult child be prepared with an excuse or to just hang up on him.

I am really proud of you! You should be also!!

 

[standswithcourage]

Thanks Susiestar! I appreciate your posts. Sometimes it jerks a knot into my crazy thinking.

 

[Hound dog]

Susan, you're not the only parent that can get so caught up in the life of their difficult child that it makes them more distant with the other children. I've been guilty of it at times, and during those times the situation actually warranted it. But it does frustrate and hurt the other children when you hyper focus on their brother. They are not at a point in their life where they can understand what you're going thru as a parent.

I personaly don't really think it's going to scar them for life, but it's not healthy behavior for any of you. Most especially you and difficult child.

Drugs is not necessarily an early death sentence. However at the rate my friend is progressing I doubt she'll see her 35th birthday.

My friend also loves to confess her sins to anyone who will listen. I don't listen. I hang up on her. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind the behavior except that perhaps they are somehow trying to justify it. Too bad. I don't want to know the horrid details of how she's distroying herself. I'd rather remember her the way she used to be.

I'm glad and releaved you've made such progress. I hope you continue.

Hugs

 

[standswithcourage]

Yes and well I hope so too. I saw difficult child today. He came to mow the ladies yard across our street. He stayed in our home more than he mowed the yard. She is going to pay him tomorrow - $30 - so I figured he wanted the money from us and then he would pay us back - no way! Anyway, I had a meeting with my counselor. She suggested I tell him to write his obituary. That he was destroying himself and I couldnt stop him but that I loved him unconditionally and was willing to take him to treatment but couldnt enable him any more. She said he may die in active addiction. So I told him this. He looked at me like I was crazy. I said I have come to realization that you are destroying yourself - I can accept it now - I just need to know what to do when it happens - he said mom I am not going to die - I said the way your are living I give you 3 years - he just looked at me - I told him I was tired - I had been doing this for 10 years - I dont want to lose him but I cant stop him - so do what you do but leave me out of it - I am not tied to you nor you to me. You are not an extention of me anymore. It felt good to say that. I felt almost at peace. I had made peace with my greatest fear - losing him - I still know if it happens it will be horrible and I will be sad for probably ever - but once I come to the realization that it could happen and try to stop saving him from it I feel better about myself. Does that make sense anyone? Anyway I talked about it in Alanon tonight - those people have seen me grow - they know what a mess I was when I first came - they all just about stood up an applauded! I am very emotional when I tell stories - I tell them from my heart and it has been so emotional for me for years. I hope I can continue to stand back.

 

[susiestar]

I am glad that sometimes I can help. I also do not think it has done permanent damage to your other kids, but if you continue then it could. That is why you need alanon and the therapist, to help you repair your relationships with your other kids, and to help you set healthy boundaries for yourself.

The book Boundaries by cloud and townsend might be of use to you. they even have a workbook that goes along with it.

Enjoy your renewed relationships with your daughter and son and husband. We all have gone through the stage when it is helpful to hyperfocus on our difficult child, but after a while it becomes unhealthy for everyone in the family, even difficult child.

You have really come a LONG way in a short time. Once you got the basics of what we were saying, you really made HUGE progress. I hope you are as proud of yourself as you should be. Keep up the great work!

 

[witzend]

With all due respect, telling your son to write his obituary is trying to treat your son. Your son did not go for treatment, you did. Please be sure that your counselor is aware that you want to help yourself become independent of your son and to be a good parent to your other two children, who deserve it, and a good wife to your husband, who deserves it. Your son doesn't want what he deserves, and he doesn't get it, either.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE talk to your counselor about you and only you next time. This is not therapy for him, it's therapy for you.

FWIW, you can't ever know in advance what to do when someone dies. No matter how much you prepare yourself, it isn't going to be what you thought it was. Live in the now. Not what it was like when you taught him to tie his shoes. Not what it will be like when he dies. But what it's like right now to be happy for yourself and no one else. Right now is all we have. That second where I just typed that is gone. That moment when you just read it is gone. Be happy right now, and leave the rest of it alone.

 

[Andy]

I find it very odd for a therapist to have you ask someone else to do something therapeutical. I can see that the therapist would have asked YOU to write that obit but not for you to ask difficult child to do so. Strange! He is nowhere ready to look at his life right now.

Anyway, I am glad you are feeling stronger in the detachment area. Super good for not "borrowing" him any money. You know he would not pay it back.

It is good that you were able to vocalize to him where you stand. The stronger you get, the more he will see YOUR strength and that is the strength that someday may turn him around. He has to find that for himself though.

Witz is right, you need to be focusing on how you can get your life back. You need to be strong in who you are no matter what is going on with ANYONE else in your family. The therapist can not help difficult child through you. The therapist should be helping YOU! How can you live through this without changing difficult child because you can not change him. How can you be the person you want to be without difficult child's influence in your decisions? How are your day to day activities and decisions impacting EVERYONE in your family? There is so much for you to work on that does not include difficult child's input or you asking difficult child to do anything.

I think that you need to first strenghthen yourself, then strenghthen family members who are not your difficult child, and last if everyone is on board with you then as a family if you feel you want to reach out to difficult child make that decision at that point. Get yourself and the rest of the family healthy first.

 

[susiestar]

I just realized that you posted about the therapist asking you to have difficult child write his obit.

Tell her seh is WAY out of line!!! NO WAY should she be encouraging you to do anything with difficult child. NOTHING. And certainly not have you give him therapy!!!

What kind of bimbo is this therapist???? I TOTALLY cannot believe she knows the extent that you are enmeshed with him and for how many years it has gone on and she asked you to ask him to do that!!!!!

Please tell her that it is not acceptable for her to treat difficult child through you. IF she wants to treat difficult child she can go find him and she can pay for it herself!

You may be right about the 3 years, but probably not. Many addicts live like that for years and years, decades even. It is NOt a death sentence. difficult child is NOT ready for any therapy, and this idiot exercise could not even dent his desire for drugs. He is all powerful, especially when high. It is part of the high, the addiction.

Stay AWAY from difficult child. Do NOT speak to him. Every time you do you get drawn in. Do NOT let him in the house. Do NOT help him do odd jobs. Leave him the heck alone.

You have come so far, Susan!! Remember your other family members, the ones who do things RIGHT!! THEY deserve your attention. difficult child does NOT!!!

Don't slide back now!!! You can do it, get out of that quicksand!! Go hug your other son, give him the $$ you thought about giving your difficult child, and go back to the therapist and challenge her about why she thought it appropriate to have you therapize difficult child when YOU are the patient and you are fighting so hard to get out of being enmeshed with him. If she admits it was a mistake, OK. If she doesn't admit it was a mistake, FIND ANOTHER THERAPIST. A.S.A.P.

 

[maril]

I had made peace with my greatest fear - losing him - I still know if it happens it will be horrible and I will be sad for probably ever - but once I come to the realization that it could happen and try to stop saving him from it I feel better about myself. Does that make sense anyone? Anyway I talked about it in Alanon tonight - those people have seen me grow - they know what a mess I was when I first came - they all just about stood up an applauded! I am very emotional when I tell stories - I tell them from my heart and it has been so emotional for me for years. I hope I can continue to stand back.

Good for you. I think you will be able to continue to stand back. You are stronger.

Also, I do understand your point about being able to recognize it would be horrible to have a child die but also that one cannot live in constant fear and live feeling responsible for trying to do something about their bad choices; letting go of that and moving past it.

I also am reaching out for support, went to a NarAnon meeting a couple of nights ago, and, too, am taking steps in the right direction. It is helpful -- I really do not feel sooo isolated anymore.

Take care and hang in there!

 

[witzend]

You may be right about the 3 years, but probably not. Many addicts live like that for years and years, decades even. It is NOt a death sentence. difficult child is NOT ready for any therapy, and this idiot exercise could not even dent his desire for drugs. He is all powerful, especially when high. It is part of the high, the addiction.

While it is true that what your therapist has suggested won't help your difficult child, most importantly it won't help you. You are there for you, right? You're not there trying therapy by proxy for your son again, are you?

Please reply.

 

[standswithcourage]

I am there for me. I am just having a hard time. I go through periods of great victory and then sink back again. I probably should start a new thread - "how do you know". He came by today beacause he mowed the ladies yard in front of us. I happened to be there - just back from physical therapy - ugh! anyway - he starts about his teeth hurting = we wont help him = they really hurt, etc., then he starts about needing his medication = we wont help him, etc., he cant pay for it - I said well how much money are you making today - $30. but part of it is for weed and the other is because i owe someone (which is more important that anything else) so I said well we cant afford it - maybe you shoud check into Medicare - he was livid - so how do I even know if his teeth hurt - why is it my problem - he has no money no job, etc., do I help him? How? I just want reassurance that I am doing the right thing because it doesnt seem like the right thing - my hubby came home and said no we are not takingyou to the doctor - they had words and my husband told him to leave - so he did. that is that! I feel weak when he comes and it is just me andhim andhe says mom I really need my medicine - and I say go to mental health - he wont. Also he said we made him live in an abandoned trailer - I told him it was his choice - he said it was not (except bad words) I said he wouldnt abide by our rules so that was where he chose to live. I dont feel guilty.

 

[witzend]

Why do you even talk to him?

"No" is a complete sentence. "Can I have money?" "No." Walk away, close the door and lock it.

He argues with you because you argue back. Arguing is bargaining because sometimes he wears you down and you give him SOMETHING.

Try "No."

And please tell the doctor that you need to work on detaching and that it would be best if she redirected you rather than tried to help you with difficult child. Your illness is difficult child. She's feeding your illness.

 

[Suz]

Susan, I think it's important for you to remember that:

1. Just because he's across the street mowing the lawn, it doesn't mean you have to talk to him.

2. Just because he rings the doorbell, it doesn't mean you have to open the door.

3. Just because he calls you, it doesn't mean you have to answer the phone.

Give it a rest.

Give yourselves some space.

You two are so involved in this circuitous rat-race that there's no stopping...until and unless YOU do the stopping. It's a cinch he won't because you always rise to the bait. So DON'T.

Don't answer the door.

Don't answer the phone.

DO what the others have suggested about working on YOU with your counselor.

DO spend time healing yourself.

DO attend meetings.

DO spend time and energy and effort on your easy child children and your husband.

DO enjoy your summer break.

DO ask your counselor to help you learn how to re-direct your thinking when you get fixated on your difficult child...

...and DO have some FUN.

Suz