Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
http://www.artistsway.com/awaw.html

This is where I first learned about the existence of the dragon scroll.

The book is excellent. Each chapter focuses on one aspect of the dragon's rising ~ of our own personal development then, in competition with others for the same prize.

I will find the scroll for you. The online scroll, I mean.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Cedar, is there a proportion? That is to say, 1 T of vinegar would go to how much baking soda? Or put the other way, how much vinegar to how much baking soda?Thank you for the tip.

The recipe I used called for 3/4 t baking soda. I used 1 T of vinegar. I only had red wine vinegar so I used that. I just always use 1 T of vinegar. In pastry, I use 1 1/2 T vinegar or lemon juice.

Lemon juice would do the same thing.

Here is the recipe, just for the fun of it, Copa and Serenity.

375 degrees / 10 to 12 minutes Top rack of oven will brown tops of cookies without burning bottoms. I put tablespoons full of dough on aluminum foil (torn to the size of my baking sheet). This recipe will make around 18 double size cookies. So, I have two sheets of aluminum foil. Boom on goes the dough. Then, slip the foil onto the cookie sheet. When that batch is done, slip the entire foil sheet off the cookie sheet, slip the other foil sheet on.

That way, all the cookies are ready to go and I can wash the bowls and etc while the first batch is baking.

I save the foil for use the next time I bake cookies. The foil prevents the cookies from burning and they never stick.

Now you know all my cookie secrets.

Also, beat the wet ingreds until nice and beautifully fluffy. Then, add the dry ingreds. Beat them up just til moist, just til the dough looks beautiful. Otherwise, our cookies would be tough, if we beat the dough too much once the wet and dry are together.

1 1/4 c flour
3/4 t baking soda
1/2 t baking powder
1/4 t salt

So, sift this together and add to:

1/2 c butter
1/2 c peanut butter
1 c sugar
1 egg
1 T vinegar

Remember to beat the wets until beautifully creamy.

So, rounded tablespoonfuls of dough, twelve to a cookie sheet. Sprinkle with sugar so they won't stick to the fork when you make the cross hatching typical of peanut butter cookies. (No greasing or spray needed on aluminum foil.)

Press lightly with a fork first one direction and then, the opposite direction, to make the crunchy cross hatching typical of blah blah blah.

Bake on upper shelf at 375 for ten to twelve minutes.

These are the only cookies D H likes. They don't have too much sugar. If you want to add sweet? Half a package of peanut butter chips, or M & Ms, can be stirred into the dough.

We also did Fried Peppers.

These we make to eat cold, with sandwiches or with asiago cheese.

2 green peppers
1 red pepper

Core and cut into about 2 x 2 squares. Or, you can just slice them.

3 large cloves of garlic; smash with meat tenderizer into little pieces
1/2 t salt
1/4 t black pepper
1/8 t cayenne pepper
1/8 t crushed red pepper
1/4 t Lawry's Garlic Salt

Vegetable oil for frying. Not olive oil unless you are going to eat them warm. Olive oil clouds as the peppers cool and doesn't look pretty.

Okay, so 1/4 c oil. I don't measure it, but I think that is about right.

Fry medium high until everything is nice and hot. Cover and turn the heat down to just above simmer. Cook until the peppers are fork ~ are how done you want them to be when you eat them. When they are how you want them, turn off the heat and add:

1/3 jar of capers with 1/3 the juice in the jar. (This is a small jar of capers. Say, the 6 oz size.)

That's all there is to it. Cool the peppers and put them in the fridge.

You can use them as I've suggested above, or use them in cooking in place of green peppers.

We put them into a glass jar, because they look so pretty with the red and the green.

This is a recipe of D H mom.

She was such a good cook. Mine are pretty good too, though.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
(Yeah, it may be boring...just pretend you read it and I'll feel good...lol)
SWOT, you need to see here how you put yourself down.

Each of us takes a risk to subject ourselves to the criticism or ridicule of others by posting...or to other kinds of misuse. And it is true, that each of us has revealed in our posts, the criticism or blame we anticipate in our own heads, by posting as we have.

That is normal. I think. We are taking risks. It is realistic to expect reaction or response.

Each of us has a unique personality, our own strengths, weakness and bias.

I have worried, too, that because there are three of us, that there is the risk of triangulation....even in if it is just in one or more of our minds.

But we need to remind ourselves that the 3 legged stool is of the most stable of designs.

Each of us has a dose of cruelty or sadism. Well-hidden, and usually, in our cases, turned against ourselves.

To anticipate that Cedar and I would hurt you, is to hurt yourself, Serenity, because should one of us do that Serenity it would only reflect very badly on us. You would not have deserved it. We would have revealed our own weakness, or smallness. We would have revealed our own secret shame, not yours.

You would not deserve that.

I know in my case I have two types of sensitivities that show up in posting and to responding to posts of others.

I am sensitive where I have doubt in myself, or where I am secretly afraid.

I can sometimes feel inpatient, and respond as such, to weakness (when it is like my own.)

I see where I have done this. I am aware of it. And until I fix it in me, I will take responsibility.

On the other hand, I do not think it is wrong to tell the truth, either. So that other people can help and protect us. From ourselves. Even if it is not their responsibility to do so.
You are a hero, Copa.
Thank you, Serenity. Right now I am still recuperating from my war wounds at the hospital. I am waiting for my service dog to arrive (I hope nobody that represents wounded warriors gets mad at me. I just want a dog. I want a brown lab. Maybe a German Shepherd. He or she will go with me everywhere.)

Actually, this is not a bad idea. Maybe I can get a therapy dog, with a letter from the doctor. So that I can get up from the bed. My dog will arrive already specially trained to push me out of bed. Or pull me out. Or get in bed with me. I much prefer that idea.

See, SWOT, do not be so hard on yourself. Right now I am waiting to be denounced by disabled veterans and their supporters, throughout the land.

And I do not care. I want my service dog. I will not back down.

What. are. you. going. do. about. it. America? After all, Serenity says I am a hero.

I learned how to do that from Carly Fiorina. I mean this: She. did. that. on. Twitter. I am doing it here. It means saying something in a. very. powerful. voice.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Cedar. Peanut Butter Cookies are among my favorites, but I cannot make them because I will eat them all.

The peppers sound delicious. M eats the hot type of peppers. Jalepenos and Serranos, typically. He chomps on them raw with any savory food. I wonder if the recipe would work with these chiles.

The recipe sounds so good. I love the idea of your cooking with D H Mom's recipes. It sounds so right. Italian food is my favorite of all. Greek/Turkish/Persian food is close behind but not equal. My city of birth/origin is an Italian City. There were wonderful restaurants when I was young. And my Dad took me. So, this was my first love, of cuisines. I will never forsake it.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
They were her last vengeful act against her daughters who she believed had failed her. To care for her as she had deserved. To take away and soothe her own hurts.

That her daughters for eternity would suffer for their failure, is what my mother sought.

Copa, there is a story about a Mongolian peasant. In his life, he had done a wrong thing, committed some wrongness that shamed him. It was a secret wrongness, Copa. Something he'd never told anyone, lest they know and judge him harshly.

First point: Those are the secrets we told ~ the secrets we determined to tell and have done with forever, when we elected to go into therapy with Security Boy.

And Security Boy knew it, and took our money and left us in the blasted lands all alone, those terrible men with nice shoes. Like gypsies then, we spit into the dust between our bare feet. "Damn, white bellied gringos with nice shoes.", we mutter, rewrapping our Gypsy headdresses. Spreading our pirate skirts, we sit down for a minute. Taking our bearings by the stars, we decide what to do, next.

***

Anyway, one day, long ago in Mongolia, a warlord captured the peasant. "He looks guilty." thought the warlord. "He must have a secret." The warlord ordered the Mongolian peasant be tortured until he confessed his terrible secret. In his shame, the peasant would not confess. He believed, in his shameful knowledge, that it was right to torture him. With his own secret, his own shame, because though his secrets had nothing to do with the safety of the realm, he felt so awful about those secret things he had done.

The tortured peasant confessed, finally, to every accusation the torturer threw at him.

Everything.

Even things that happened before he was born.

"It doesn't matter!" he screamed. "If I had been alive then, I would have done it! Guilty! I am guilty of all of it, everything."

And the warlord said: "Kill him. A man guilty in his own eyes, can never be true to himself. He can never be trusted."

The moral of the story is that everyone has a Mongolian peasant hidden away deep inside us. And that being the case, any deceitful person who knows that secret Mongolian peasant exists in us may choose to dangle exposure of the peasant before our horrified eyes.

And we will confess to anything, we can be made to believe anything, because of that Mongolian peasant.

Know how our abusers knew that, even as little kids, we harbored a Mongolian peasant?

Because they put him there.

It is Happy Hour here, Serenity and Copa.

Wishing you both such a nice evening.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I have come to the conclusion that I became bereft as my mother died and after, because I blamed myself for all that had happened between us for a lifetime.

That I was responsible for the break between us. I was responsible for her lack of love for me. I was responsible for not loving her, as much as I should have. I was responsible for being afraid to love her. I was responsible for not fixing myself so that I no longer feared.

I spent almost 2 years in bed as my punishment.

And when my son was lost, and I with him, I believed that this confirmed by fault in all, and on some level that was my punishment, too, for failing with my Mother.

The question I am asking now, is why? Why did I do this to myself? (I may already know, but it seems I keep forgetting. As often as I need to remind myself, I will.)

I knew my mother's limits. I knew she was indifferent to me. I knew on some level she blamed me. I knew she was toxic to me, and had been so for all or most of my life, etc.

Why did the instant she was dead, did I forget?

And the answer must be (drum roll): The power to kill. At one time I was so angry at my mother, I wished her dead. I convinced myself that wishes would kill. I loved my mother and I needed her.

At that time I would have done anything to protect her, and indirectly, myself.

To kill off my anger, I killed myself off...And that is why when others are afraid of my power, I convert myself to prey. My own.

And so when my Mother died, I followed suit. I tried to substitute myself, to take down myself, in order to save her. Oh, I knew she was dead but I still had my love for her. And that I wanted and needed to save.

I sacrificed myself so that my love for my mother could live on. Blinding myself to the realities of what for me had been our love. On some level, too, I must have believed that she had died, because my love for her had not been good enough, or strong enough, or pure enough...And maybe, too, I believed I had killed her, or my childhood wishes that she die, had killed her...and that her death had been proof of my power to do so.

I devised a punishment to fit the crime. I killed myself off. And I went to bed.

So over these past couple of weeks here in Foo, we have contemplated the various crimes of which children can believe themselves to be capable.

To cause a child to be desperate enough to long for their own death as the only possible escape. *Which is indeed what came to be.

To inspire the desire to kill the person who cares for you...a rage born from neglect, and cruelty born from spiteful intention to hurt.

Those were my mother's offenses, not my own. But I borrowed these crimes. As a means to keep myself and my mother alive.

In the bed these past two years I have served the sentence my own mother avoided.

I did not do this to myself to spare her in my heart. I did it to spare myself the awareness of the ways she hurt me and was indifferent to.

What would be so hard about accepting her indifference to hurting me? After, all I had known it my whole life.

Every child needs to be somebody. After all, that is the cornerstone of identity and our distinction among the species: our individuality. I think a sense one is special awakens identity. The babies in the orphanages die of this lack. As my son nearly did.

I think my mother's indifference to me put me at risk in the same way. I could not bear that to her I was not that important. But I was not that important to her. I do not doubt she loved me. But she loved herself most of all.

I tried to live my life trying to hold myself as if I was special, and did things to show myself that I might be somebody. It worked to a point.

I constructed an identity and a life of somebody who looked like she was strong. Looked like she had value. And strength, and purpose. I became that person...to a point.

Until my Mother died. And then the truth of it all came crashing down. All of the things that I had done had not touched the truth that my mother had been indifferent to me for my whole life. That my self had slipped through the cracks. What I had achieved patched up holes but it had not touched what was broken.

That is the reason that I was as if unaware of having a self...because my parents had not treated me in a way that I mattered. They had been indifferent to me and worse. While I am not making the equation between my situation and those babies who die of lack of care in an orphanage, it is on the same continuum of absence of care.

I think at some point in my life I stopped seeking my mother's attention. With my decision to adopt my son, I sought to address that need. We soldiered on.

Until my mother died. There was no image or metaphor that could contain my pain except my own death in life. And to know why I had to get to that point, I will have to re-read this post.

And as many times as I need to post in order to understand this, I will.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Why did I do this to myself? (I may already know, but it seems I keep forgetting. As often as I need to remind myself, I will.)
I think you were simply taking the truth and twisting it around Let me explain.

A little child is never at fault for neglect. It is always the parent.

In your case somehow your mother convinced you that it was your fault anyway and you were so eager to believe her words, whatever they were (or actions) that you took a rather unusual view of this. You aren't the only one. I thought it was my fault too when I was young.

To therapist: "My mom was a GREAT mom. I was just a terrible kid."
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
We have decided we will be leaving here very soon. (M says 10 days max) I do not know know how he picks these edicts out of the air, with such precise parameters. Why not 11 days or 13?
We will almost do nothing in order to leave. I may apply for work...for when I return. And I must do my taxes. That is all.

I do have a lot of pain in my cervical spine, and will not be able to complete the physical therapy regimen. That is a consideration...but I think we must go.

I found a Southern Route train (with a saver fare) to New Orleans, where we can stop over to break up the trip (I have never been there) and then we can go on from there. Hopefully, cheap fares are still left.

So, it is decided.

I find myself thinking about my Mother here. I really think my mother thought about me like the Baby Dragon's people thought about her.

With suspicion. That she did not have for my sister. It is painful.

Through my whole life I felt like my mother loved me more, that I was the beloved child.

Does it really matter? As old as I am? Not really. But it does. You want as a person, to have been loved by your own mother. There is no second prize, here.

I am my own little flower. With only 4 miserably inadequate thorns. I will learn to love myself and to protect myself. That is the important thing.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Never once was I taught to try to control myself...no effort was made. I was just baaaaaaaaaaaaad.

You felt badly about yourself for the sake of the mother you loved and were disappointing with the differences that would, until you'd been correctly diagnosed and the reason for the differences named, come to haunt your life.

That is so sad a thing, Serenity.

You have had to be very strong.

We're talking two years old up until the teen years and in early adulthood when I was still very different, although my attitude toward my mother had changed.

Serenity? Toward My Mother/Myself.

And for each of us, the differences in our mothers will have affected us from the moment we were placed in her arms. Our mothers may not have been able to welcome. They may (and probably did) have felt their lives were out of their control in their pregnancies. birth control was up to the male in those times before The Pill, remember. Or was mechanical for women, and I think not widely available in that time. Their babies seem to have been seen as little strangers; as objects of curiosity and demand.

How out of control their lives must have become, with the births of their first children.

I still wanted her to love me, but I wanted her to help me

Could it be that you wanted her to help you be the little girl who would reflect that she had mothered well, so that she would love you? So that you could be for her all the things you so desperately hoped and tried to be? Given that no one could understand, not even a doctor in that time, that there were physical reasons for what was happening to all of you and that in that time, every deficit in the child was an accusation against the mother (homosexuality, autism ~ formerly known as feral child ~ schizophrenia, sociopathy ~ you name it, it was an accusation against the mothering of the mother) your mom must have so blamed herself for your differences, Serenity. And she was blamed, roundly condemned really, by
the medical authorities and by the husbands of the time.

It must have been so hard, for you and your mom both, Serenity.

I'm sure she did love you, and did wonder where she had gone so wrong in her mothering as to have harmed her own child, her own daughter.

There was nowhere to go for help in that time but to psychiatrists, or to medical doctors who, not having an answer, dipped into the unquestioned misogyny of that time and condemned the mother.

And there was no birth control and there was no taking a job outside the home and most women did not even drive; they had no life outside wife and mother.

We are so fortunate today, to have learned the real reasons for the things that happen to us, and to our children.

Maybe that is why she gave you chocolate milk in your bottles, Serenity. Maybe that pleasure of sweet chocolate was the one way she could please you, could soothe you...could love you.

And that probably just made everything worse, but there was no way she could have known that, then. Now, we know about hyperactivity and sugar and allergies.

All she could have known then was that she had somehow not been the mother you needed.

That's why she calls me borderline (if she stil does). It is something that will push the buttons of most people, especially when it's not true.

I agree. Whatever our sisters are struggling with, there does seem to be a kind of hatred for us that has nothing to do with us, with who we are really, and everything to do with their struggle to make sense of what happened to all of us.

I know she felt bad for me and tried to be good to me because she knew I didn't have a mother.

Her having come into your life was a gift. I am happy that happened for you. D H mom means a great deal to me, too.

But I had the heart and desire to learn how to help people and have been doing it all my life. The only person I refused to be good to was myself. Everyone else got second and third chances. I gave myself not even one chance I digress...

That is what we are learning to do, here on the FOO Chronicles. We are "telling tales of old scars and of dark, unhealed wounds that the Child within each might...appear".

Or however that poetry goes.

We each have taken on the shame of our mothers. But our mothers' shame revolves around the concepts they held of themselves as mothers. A circle, then.

Remember that in that time, a woman had no other value. And she had so little control over her own life; and there was no internet where she could learn that she was not the only one who was somehow not happy, who felt that she was failing.

It must have been so hard for them.

My grandma told me everything. She believed "There are no secrets in a family."

With my grands, even with daughter choosing the streets and the drugs and the turning away that she did...I always tell them that when their mother is healthy, there is no better mom in all the world. Your grandmother should have done that for you, Serenity. She might have held faith with your mother's best intention for the family, however it all worked out in real life. If your grandmother had told you, over and over again, that your mother loved you beyond measure and was doing the best she knew...that would have been a very different reality than the one your grandmother created for you.

I know you love your grandmother. But she was filling your little girl ears with things that were not, strictly speaking, true.

It might have made such a difference for all of you, had your grandmother presented your mother and you, in a truer light.

And then, she did what she did with that money.

And she did it to her own daughter, and to you.

She did not have my son's SSN and I refused to give it to her for th e purpose of giving him money and not the other two kids so she tried sneaky methods to get it...calling him up then calling him names when he said he didn't know it (he didn't).

It took great courage to stand up to the mother you so desperately needed to love you.

Wow.

He had a normal loving mother and father and his grandparents would never have done what mine did. Although she loved me, she made it harder in the end for me.

She did.

Why? Was she trying to destroy even that, between her daughter and you?

My mom does things like that.

It's as though she is determined that the strength that could be taken, by all the sibs, in learning to trust one another, will never happen.

Though in reviewing my sister's behaviors throughout my life, I am seeing that there was always a mix of hatred and loving and anger in the way my sister sees me, things have been thousands of times worse since my father's death. Since My Mother/My Sister/Myself have no firm center but the one my mother chooses.

I had posted before about my mother's seeming celebration of the "jealousy" over her, between my sister and myself. Now...why would a mother say such a thing, with that little smirk, to a daughter in her late fifties about a sister also in her fifties?

Or tell me shaming things about my sister dancing for joy in her own beautiful kitchen because she had my mother and my father with her in her home?

Our mothers, and maybe our grandmothers, too...I don't know. They seem determined to weaken all of us, to keep the sibs apart, to instill jealousy where family connection and the strength come of it should be. And always, the center, the glorified center, is the mother.

That is why we are ferreting through all this stuff instead of getting out of bed, so to speak.

We are doing well with it, I think.

I dreamed last night of the fattest horned toad. There were many of them and I knew they were there, in my house, but I hadn't seen them, before. I could hear them, moving behind the walls. In the dream, I opened the door to the vanity in the bathroom and there was this incredibly fat horned toad.

It was brilliant orange, brilliant yellow and white.

It looked right at me.

That is the dream.

When I was a little girl, I was fascinated by dinosaurs. I wanted a horned toad in the worst way. I loved the fact that they spit blood out of their eyelids when threatened. I never did get one, but I never forgot about them, either. I learned all kinds of things about dinosaurs and the La Brea Tar Pits and so on, when I was little.

You guys are not going to believe this I know, but the library was my favorite place in all the world.

:O)

It still is.

Anyway, that was my dream last night. D H says the horned toad represents my mom.

It was a very beautiful horned toad. But it was amazingly fat. I am afraid, and I am not.

Beautiful colors, just beautiful.

In real life, horned toads are gray.

Well, he did have that right, if she had the right to try to trick my son. And to call him a liar.

No. She did not.

I wonder whether it was the grandmother who suggested that your mother might learn your son's Social Security number.

Did anyone have a choice?

No.

I had always believed that we (my mom and my sister and me) were all doing the best we knew and that it just somehow had never come together.

Yet.

That was the family dinner imagery, I suppose.

But it seems now that my mom is determined to create the reality that now exists.

D H says I will be vulnerable to my sister if he is gone when my mother dies.

He is correct.

Hey, I didn't visit my mom when she had brain cancer, but I did call her. It was interesting. Since she was not in her right mind, she was nice to me, if she even knew who I was. She even cried once and said, "I can't read. I look at books but can't read the words."

I said, "Well, you had surgery. It will get better."

She sniffed. "That's true."

Why do you believe she did not know it was you, Serenity?

I do not mourn my mother

I don't think it's about mourning a parent who has passed. My sister's mourning of my father is ~ there is so much that is not right about what is happening to her around the issue of my father's death. I would so love to see my father in person again...but I feel him around me, sometimes. I dreamed of him, after his death.

My father has a paper bag. A small one. The top is folded closed, and he holds it in the crook of his arm. He is sorry to be leaving but he is going on and that is all there is to be thought, about that. He has stepped onto a tiny pontoon boat, and is about to sail into the river that leads to the sea.

I am seeing him off.

He hands me four wooden salad serving spoons with beautifully painted ceramic handles. (There were four children in my FOO. Two of the salad spoons? I already own, in my real life.) He says, "She will need these."

I think he means my mother.

He meant me.

That is the dream.

He gave me the remaining pieces of the set of four.

I admired my father. I enjoyed him. He was kind and determined and very bright and so, so funny. But I don't grieve him the way my sister did and does and it has been something like seven years since his death.


I know I have the best life of any of them. I have love.

This is true, for each of us.

It has taken me forever to understand what I mean to D H.

Or to understand what he means, to me.

Trust issues? Or self worth. The two are so closely intertwined.

And we have named that betrayal of self, here in the FOO Chronicles.

And you were a soldier at the end for her, although she didn't deserve it.

The mother hadn't earned Copa's sacrifice, this is true. But to me, it seems that what we are doing here in the FOO Chronicles is coming to understand our mother's realities, too. It seems to me that what we are coming to see is that our moms were ill, or judged themselves and us so harshly because ~ I don't know, Serenity. It's like you posted. Did any of us really have a choice. Did our moms have a site like this where they could hold our their secret hurts and shamings for healing? No. They had the entire medical community and the pervasive misogyny of those times and that's all.

So, though so much of our lives have been hurtful and shaming and really just so freaking mean and awful...we do have this site, and one another and right witness, and we are healing, because of it.

So...that's good, then.

We are blessed.

Like, miraculously blessed in the very real sense of that word, blessing. And we are working hard, and telling our truths with integrity and finding ethical, healing witness, here.

:O)

You are a hero, Copa.

Yes.

I just finished your post, Serenity. It was beautiful.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
to New Orleans, where we can stop over to break up the trip (I have never been there) and then we can go on from there.

Try to tour the Cemetery, Copa. There is an old church too, which you should see if you can. The history of New Orleans is strange and amazing. The ground is below sea level. In the old days, the bodies they buried would come popping out of the ground when it rained.

This is true.

So, they devised above ground mausoleums. The families picnic with their dead there to this day. There were say, five openings. Or three. When the next family member died, the bottom area where the oldest coffin had been stored would be released somehow, and that body would ~ well, I don't remember just how they do it. But room needs to be made for the latest family member who has died, and they way they do it is to somehow dispose of the remains of the longest dead family member. It's fascinating stuff. The Italian workers could not afford separate family crypts. The Italians built a beautiful crypt topped by a white marble image of Mary holding the crucified Christ.

It's so beautiful, Copa and Serenity.

The crypt of Marie Lavue, a famous and powerful voodooienne can be seen on the same tour.

https://books.google.com/books?id=7...e&q=mary and Christ crypt new orleans&f=false

I am excited for you.

There was the most incredible pastry shop there in the French Quarter when we were there. In the morning, I ordered coffee brought to our room. It was the most delicious coffee I have tasted. I was told it is because they make it with chicory.

There is a jazz club there for which people line up to be admitted before the club ever opens.

New Orleans was an amazing place. The shops contain things like Mardi Gras trinkets and hundred thousand dollar pieces of furniture.

I am excited for you.

Does it really matter? As old as I am? Not really. But it does. You want as a person, to have been loved by your own mother. There is no second prize, here.

Yes it matters.

They did not understand us, our mothers.

That is the truth of it.

Though we have carried their legacies, we have not broken. None of the three of us have broken. Could whatever it is about us that enabled us not to break, could it be that essential thing, that thing that is different about us and that has made us so ashamed ~ that has made us choose shame for having somehow failed our mothers...could that be why?

Loving or hating, there is a deep bond, a seemingly unbreakable connection between our mothers and ourselves. You know what they say: "At the touch of Eternity, we will know."


I am my own little flower. With only 4 miserably inadequate thorns. I will learn to love myself and to protect myself. That is the important thing.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
You felt badly about yourself for the sake of the mother you loved and were disappointing with the differences that would, until you'd been correctly diagnosed and the reason for the differences named, come to haunt your life.
There is so much that is a mystery about life.

In this culture we think it is all straightforward....as if life is a mathematical equation. But who is ever to know really if your heart and strength, Serenity, it was the gaps and crevices, the hidden part, the sorrow in your life you endured, the exclusion, that gave you the real you, the person who embraces everyone and all, with heart and compassion.

And you too, Cedar, is the wonder of you from the DNA that could have in another family turned to greatness, or is what you did become...in heart and soul and spirit and resilience..the real gift and what was meant to be.
I'm sure she did love you, and did wonder where she had gone so wrong in her mothering as to have harmed her own child, her own daughter.
I think this haunted my mother for most of her adult life. That she hurt her daughters. And her sense of guilt was so great she could not begin to confront it, even in herself.

unquestioned misogyny of that time and condemned the mother.
And they condemned themselves.
And there was no birth control and there was no taking a job outside the home and most women did not even drive; they had no life outside wife and mother.
Imagine in this information age, to be deprived of even the way to learn to understand. The newspaper the only real source of information besides gossip and the stories of the family (which in our family came from another land and an ancient culture, and rejected by my mother.)
there was no internet where she could learn that she was not the only one who was somehow not happy, who felt that she was failing.
Yes. It must have felt like Fun House mirrors, reflecting her fragile and distorted self back to her in infinite guises, each of them more intolerable to her. And to die of a malignancy of the brain. Smote down.
I always tell them that when their mother is healthy, there is no better mom in all the world.
What a gift to them to hold onto, when their Mom cannot be there for them.
Your grandmother should have done that for you
So much pain had converted into hatred, disrespect and accusation, between the generations. While there was love and responsibility, there was no honor there, just mistrust.
I loved the fact that they spit blood out of their eyelids when threatened.
Like Donald Trump has spoken of Megyn Kelly. How interesting.
You guys are not going to believe this I know, but the library was my favorite place in all the world.
Me too.
The mother hadn't earned Copa's sacrifice, this is true.
I did it for me and her. I deserved to do right by my mother. I needed it. Where and how would I be now, if I had made another choice? The thought horrifies me.

Cedar, do you remember a good location to aim for in the French Quarter?
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I knew my mother's limits. I knew she was indifferent to me. I knew on some level she blamed me. I knew she was toxic to me, and had been so for all or most of my life, etc.

Why did the instant she was dead, did I forget?

And the answer must be (drum roll): The power to kill. At one time I was so angry at my mother, I wished her dead. I convinced myself that wishes would kill. I loved my mother and I needed her.

At that time I would have done anything to protect her, and indirectly, myself.

To kill off my anger, I killed myself off...And that is why when others are afraid of my power, I convert myself to prey. My own.

And so when my Mother died, I followed suit. I tried to substitute myself, to take down myself, in order to save her. Oh, I knew she was dead but I still had my love for her. And that I wanted and needed to save.

For me Copa, this way of seeing is the way I see My Mother/Myself, too.

For me, these are the belief systems live and vibrantly well in the Realm of the Magical Child.

Remember so far back, when we began exploring how those beliefs had come to be? And how shaming it was (for me) to post such things about myself, here!

But there is no shame for us, not really. If we are correct, we will heal.

And that would be to accomplish an amazing thing.

And if it turns out, later on, that we had followed a wrong path for a time on our journey of healing, that is okay, too. We were given only the maps and signposts we can read.

Symbols.

We make what sense of them we can, and we take our courage to risk in both hands. And, blessing all that is that the site is anonymous( !), we are healing.

We are healing.

That is the thing that matters.

I am always posting about compassion and etc. I actually do believe that will be what we will have ~ compassion for the hurt and confusion and brokenness where before, we only could choose to rise above it, to do the best we knew.

We did that.

We will be whole now, where before we had unasked questions or even, places that were frozen, parts of self that we did not dare access, because the pain in them was too great.

So, that's what I know, this morning. We are putting in drain tile here at my house, D H and I. I will tell him you and M are going to New Orleans. We will talk about that this afternoon, while we are doing that hard work.

New Orleans.

What a special place.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I will tell him you and M are going to New Orleans.
Cedar, that is not the ultimate destination.

I was able to buy a ticket (and will now buy the other part) to divide the trip in two pieces. I have never seen the Southern USA. We will get to do so. New Orleans is a stopover.

I am going to buy the second set of tickets now.

Cedar, to get a taste of New Orleans, just a taste, what would you say are the min. number of days? After, all we want to get on to our ultimate destination but at the same time treat ourselves on the road.

COPA
 
Last edited:

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Does it really matter? As old as I am? Not really. But it does. You want as a person, to have been loved by your own mother. There is no second prize, here.
Copa, as we work on ourselves here I can honestly say I'm starting to accpept and be at peace with my mother's lifelong lack of love for me. It is what it is. Maybe I'd be a weaker person if I had had her in my corner (although she was not a strong woman herself). Something...there was some reason she didn't want me and I have spent time looking for it.

Now I think it was to make me stronger. At one time I would have considered myself a very weak person who could not deal with any crisis, but t hat is not the case anymore at all. I know what I have to do in any crisis.

There is a reason you survived your mother too.

Hey! Why don't we start a business for those with dysfunction FOO! Maybe only WE would understand it, but who cares?

I think teeshirts would be great!
"I survived my mother!"
"I survived my silblings!"
"I survived my________"

We could let the consumer write any word he wanted. I say $15 a shirt for short sleeves and $30 for hoodies. You in?
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Cedar, do you remember a good location to aim for in the French Quarter?

I know that when we looked out the window, we could see the roof of the Superdome. Maybe it was the Hyatt-Regency? It has been so long ago, now. What I do remember is that there were schedules and free shuttle busses to take people to tour the main attractions. Maybe Copa, you could call one of the hotels and ask for an internet site they recommend regarding what to see in New Orleans. Everyone there was so friendly and warm. The food was so good, and the pastry and coffee.

We were told not to wear expensive jewelry. One night, we were walking with another couple (also white people). A Black man took the husbands aside and told them not to go further with their women. That the neighborhood we had wandered into was not safe, for us, after dark.

I have always been amazed that he would do that, for all of us.

So, whatever you and M do there in New Orleans, remember what that nice man told us, and to keep safety in mind.

http://www.bestneworleanshotels.com/new-orleans-superdome.html

So, this is what I found, from what I could remember of where we were in New Orleans.

We were very comfortable there.

Copa? I don't know how you feel about the writer Anne Rice, but The Witching Hour is set in the Garden District. The novel wanders through the history of Storyville (the French Quarter red light district), and of the quadroon balls, and of the churches there.

I wish I could remember which church it was we toured. There is a story that the voodoo people, who were also Catholic, had somehow arranged to have a statue of a Saint who represented a voodoo magician ordered by the Church. When it arrived, no one at the Church knew which Saint it was, so the statue was placed in an out of the way place. There was much activity surrounding this unknown Saint. The truth was discovered, and the statue was removed.

I just always loved that story.

I think they might have told us about the statue on the tour.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Why don't we start a business for those with dysfunction FOO!
SWOT, that is a great business idea. The thing is everybody is a survivor of their FOO. Nobody feels they got good enough, in their heart of hearts.

I got to know well my mother's estate attorney, because of the issues before her death involving my sister, and as executor of her estate. And now he is my attorney for my trust.

We were talking about my sister, and her actions towards my mother at the end. I tried to excuse my sister, a bit, and said, "Well, she felt she did not have a good enough Mother."

"Nobody does. Nobody gets what they really need. They make peace with it and go on. That is what growing up is."

This is a guy whose job is dealing with deaths of parents, and children who are left. He says everybody has to come to grips with what they did not have, and wanted. We are all survivors.

Serenity, if you were to accept that, that you are like the rest of us in that, you would be able to stare your mother down. She needed you to carry her pain and shame...for her.... Don't do it anymore. Don't. We are all damaged. That is what it is to be human.

I believe your mother loved you. She hated herself. She could not love you in the way you needed because she was broken. It was never you. It was always her. Who was the broken one.
 
Last edited:

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Cedar, if we arrive there Friday night and leave early Monday morning is it long enough for a first trip to get a taste or would you depart Tuesday morning. I think I already have my answer: To leave Monday. We need to go where we are going and to not linger on the road.

There is a whole life left to return.

Anyway, what do you think?
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Cedar, to get a taste of New Orleans, just a taste, what would you say are the min. number of days?

I think we were there for three days and two nights, Copa. Everything will be very different now. The things I most remember are the coffee, the cemetery tour and the church, the pastry shop. We saw the aquarium. We rode the paddlewheel steamship and heard jazz and that was something I have never forgotten. We were in the packed streets at night and, though it was not Mardi Gras when we were there, people on balconies in the French Quarter were throwing beads for women to lift their shirts.

!

It would not have to be a long trip at all, I wouldn't think.

Maybe, research the restaurants online, and find some sites about New Orleans and what to see.

We saw a wild haired, bare footed female violinist on the street, Copa. We saw mimes, and people were reading tarots on the streets, too.

The policemen are very nice. People everywhere feel open hearted and kind of biatchy and cynical at the same time.

I think you will always be glad that you were there.

French is spoken there like a second language almost.

But everyone there is definitely making a living, and when we are tourists there, it is best to stay with our people, and to carry a map, and to know where we are.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
To leave Monday. We need to go where we are going and to not linger on the road.

Yes. Plan to leave Monday. If you love New Orleans, you can always go back once you know it. If you find it dirty (it was) or dangerous (it could have been) then you will be able to leave when you are ready.

Cedar
 
Top