Feels so wrong

[tryingtobestrong]

Thank you all for your replies. It is hard to shut my mind off knowing he is so far away, all alone and struggling. I agree with the posts that he is living beyond his means. I know he smokes cigarettes but not a chain smoker. I know he was drinking again and into weed. I know this debt is all his.
I know he caused this all himself.
I hate that I hate to hear his voice, hate to receive a text from him, but yet as a mother want to know how he is.
I will try harder.
On the bright side, we are rescuing a little fur baby at the end of the week! So happy inside to have a buddy again to go for walks with and to sit on the porch.
Thank you all for having patience with me. I don't have any friends around that understand. Just those in Alanon and most of them have spouses not children.

 

[Copabanana]

I will try harder.

I don't think it's a question of trying harder, trying. I think it's something else. Let me try to put this into words. I am so like you.

When I focus on my son I feel out of control. And when I feel out of control I panic. I begin to focus upon the negative feeling state and I will do anything to stop it. I don't care what.

I think the key here number one is to avoid focusing on my son. And to stay in myself. For me, almost any information is too much. For me, to have a chance to stay stable I have to let him manage his own stuff. Honestly. I am so bad, I can hardly speak to my son.

Personally, I think you are getting too much information about your son.

If we are just worried, but we keep our focus upon ourselves, we can work with the worry by distracting ourselves. We can draw. We can read. We can take a walk. We can do housework.

But when we begin to delve into their circumstances, by investigating their work or school attendance, monitoring their substances, micromanaging their visits to mental health, taking responsibility to arrange things for them that are their business to do, where the consequences befall them, we are outside of our lane. I have done (and do) each one of these things. I tell myself it's okay because the consequences accrue to me. Actually, they don't. That is a boundary issue on my part if I feel that his consequences are mine to suffer.

My son is in worse shape than is yours. He does not work. He does not for the most part seek treatment. I know how hard this is.

It's not a question of trying, trying. It's a question, actually, of not trying. Not trying to control anything we cannot control. And turning our gaze to where we do have some control. In our own lives.

 

[Kathy813]

Okay, that makes sense. I couldn't understand how his current sponsor would be willing to tell you if your son was drinking or not.

I do agree, though, with the poster that said ignorance can be bliss. I purposely never had a Facebook account because I didn't want to know what my daughter was doing or posting. I knew that if she knew I had a Facebook she would deliberately try to use it to manipulate me.

My therapist used to say that our troubled children know what triggers our fears as parents and use those things against us. My daughter would tell us she was hungry, homeless, sick, etc (even though she wasn't) because that is what we were most fearful of. We had to learn to stop reacting to her when she said those things.

Your son seems to know that you don't want him using up his 401K so that is right where he goes. You can't let him know that it bothers you. Just shrug and say to him, "if that's what you need to do, then do it. Maybe you should work on a budget in the future so you don't have to keep raiding your 401K" and then let it go. I know it is easier said than done but I promise you that he will give it up if it stops working for him.

Now, for some of your other points:

1) Credit card debt. He ran up the credit cards so it is his responsibility to pay them off. If he can't pay, they will cut off the cards and it will ruin his credit. So what? It won't kill him. He may have to live on cash instead. That might be a good thing for him.

I was so worried about my daughter ruining her credit score that I paid off many of her credit cards and then she would just turn around and run them up again. Finally, I stopped and life went on. She did tank her credit but it wasn't the end of the world.

When she got sober and wanted to rent an apartment, she suffered the consequences. Her score was too low to be able to rent an apartment. She ended up having to get her roommate's mother to cosign (I refused). She finally realized all of that running up credit cards and not paying bills had consequences and now she is so proud of working her way back up on her own. She never would have learned that if I had just kept bailing her out and letting the cycle continue. In her 3.5 years of sobriety, she has worked hard on raising her score and she just proudly told me it was up to 650.

2) 401K. He may end up using it all up. Many people don't have 401K's or money in the bank. Again, it won't kill him. He will finally be forced to live within his means.

3) Your son is working full time, right? That should be enough for one person to live on. He might have to get a roommate or a second job. So what? Many people have to work two jobs to make ends meet. Why shouldn't he?

4) Alcohol. This one is the scariest one to me. This one can kill him. However, it is also something that you can't fix. Your son has to want to stop drinking (or using drugs) and be willing to put in the work to get sober. You have to learn to let go and get on with your life. It doesn't make you a bad mother.

I have given a lot of thought to this thread since I first posted. I am not trying to be flippant. I am just trying to get you to see that the things you are so worried about don't really matter.

Please stop tearing yourself up. You are a good mother; however, being a good mother doesn't mean that you have to let your son mistreat you.

Let go so he can grow up even if it means he has to fall first.

 

[Kathy813]

I forgot to say congratulations on your new addition. There is nothing like a little furbaby to bring joy into your life.

 

[BusynMember1]

I want to add that Kay is several hours away too, in another state, and nobody lives near her except Lee. Their relationship can be violent, but she won't call the police on him. They are not a cozy couple and Kay is estranged from other family, none that live in her state, so in a very real sense she is also alone. If the kids choose to move from us, that is their decision. I often fretted over this, especially because of the violence in the marriage and our being hours away, until Kay admitted that she liked living away from us. She prefers a distant, combative husband to the family that loves her and has protected her. This was before we withdrew our financial support. She took from us gladly, but did not want to be emotionally or physically close to us. It hurt.

I assume that, like Kay, your son can move closer to you if he wants. He and Kay are making a choice to be away from us.

I feel badly for your pain and hope something clicks with you so that one day you can see how useless it is to follow your son's life and worry about his choices. When we worry, we don't help them one bit. If we learn scary details, it doesn't change those details. All it does is make us panic over things we can't control. I have been that person up all night, crying, worrying, pacing, and after all that Kay had not changed one bit.

Ignorance IS bliss to me. It really is. I have no Facebook account. Right now I have not talked to Kay in weeks. I don't know what she is doing. It has been great for my husband and me. We even took a vacation for two weeks and left our family business to our son during that time. Getting away together was glorious. I feel guilty that the lack of Kay has had a good effect on our family, but I accept it. Accepting what is makes life easier for my husband and me AND my other children.

I am ready to start a new life, a less stressful one. You can do this too, but I know it is not easy. I don't blame you at all for what you do. I just feel it is hurting you and not helping your son at all. Be well.

 

[JayPee]

Dear Trying...I’m sorry for your pain. There will be better days. It’s funny (and I say this with all due respect) that when I read your posts, I used to be at that stage in this process. I can see some improvement in myself and it’s likely some of the seasoned posters see progress in themselves compared to where I’m at. My point here is that if you keep working towards self care, get some good Melodie Beatty books and a journal and keep posting on this forum I feel you will make progress in feeling and getting better. They maybe baby steps but in time we can look back and see that all those baby steps have brought us to a healthier, happier way of living. These ladies on this forum have so much wisdom and give so much of their time and support. They are wonderful and never make me feel like I’m posting too much.

Sending good thoughts.

 

[WiseChoices]

I listened to a YouTube video this morning that had good tips:
S= Stop enabling and the money flow
A= Assemble support group for yourself
N= Nip excuses in the bud
I= Implement rules and boundaries
T=Trust your instincts
Y= Yield everything to God

Stopping the money flow resonated with me a lot . The excuses we make to ourselves are things like:
√Its so hard for kids today
√if I don't help who will?
√I am only trying to help
√Noone understands my child
√He/she just needs to find the right treatment/job/partner etc

Excuses keep US in pain . I have no doubt in my mind now that the way our children speak to us with disrespect is BECAUSE we are being disrespectful to ourselves when we 1. Allow it 2. Pay for things that are THEIR responsibility 3. Come from the angle of "please love me, accept me, approve of me".

My Father is a very self respecting person. He would never allow anyone to speak to him with disrespect. He does not seek approval from others . He loves me, but would throw me out in a heartbeat if I crossed his boundaries.

The YouTube was by Allison Bottke by the way if anyone wishes to look at her website. She has a book out as well.

 

[WhyDoWeFallBruce?]

When my son turned 15, I learned that he was smoking cigarettes. My response was: “Well my son, this means I will no longer give you money - as long as you smoke, that is.” (I was a smoker and when I was Young, my mom ended up buying most of my cigarettes, without knowing, so I knew all about it)
I never gave him any, and had no issue with him on this. He just got money from his mom and carried on with life. And also got a job!
So for me, there was no issue about money, when I learned about the drug abuse.
Only from then on, he suddently began begging and pleading with me. I was stern on this subject, so he never got any. He somehow had his granma pay the phone. And after that, his mom.
He always seems to land on both feet and thus I never saw a reason to save him, financially.

And neither should you. If he wants contact, he Can find a computer at a library or shelter. Write you an e-mail. Or tweet. Or other.
The World today no longer needs phones for that.

My son only replies to texts when HE feels like it. Wich is actually fair enough, when you contemplate it. What business of mine is it, to try and force him to do otherwise? Would I think it okay for him to force me to respond?
I of course feel disheartened when he “ghosts” me. AND it is unfair and disrespectful of him.

But should I let it control me?
Never.

If you pay that phone, you risk feeling entitled, and you should ask your self if this is good path for you to walk?

Lots of thoughts

P.