Have a feeling of impending doom

[Scent of Cedar *]

I wouldn't say that I respect my son's choices, but I respect the fact that they are his to make.

D H goes further, Jabber. When my father was still alive, he told us: (This was regarding son, as daughter was doing well for about fifteen minutes.) My father said: "If he wasn't happy doing what he is doing (being homeless and addicted), he would be doing something else." Then my father said: "We do the best we know as parents. The hard part is that we don't know whether what we did was what a particular child needed until they're not listening to us, anymore." And my father said: "I am an old man. Looking back on my life, on the times I exchanged freedom for responsibility...who is to say whether I was right or wrong to spend my life choosing responsibility? It might have been better spent, now that I am old and I see it was true, when they told me I would die one day, for me to have made a different choice."

And my father said: "He will be fine. Whichever way this works out. He will be fine with this, at the end of his life."

And though my father's words comforted me, they took D H from guilt and a sense of responsibility to respect for himself and for me and in a way, even for what the kids were doing or were about to do.

That's why D H is able to say: No Money.

But I wasn't able to say that at all...so D H has given cash, for my sake. Not that D H has a problem with any legitimate request from a child starting out to a parent. He has always been able to see with more clarity which ~ I don't know, disbursements maybe ~ would be legitimate help. D H does not enable, not even in the words he uses to talk to the kids about how they got where they are.

It has taken me forever to see the way D H sees.

But he was correct.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I just can't shake this feeling. Have I done enough? Would my going out there perhaps prevent something more catastrophic from happening? Does he feel unloved? Desperate? Alone? If he dies, can I live with the knowledge that there was just one more chance, a different approach that could have saved him?

This was, and to a certain extent, but in a different way now, continues to be my truth regarding my kids and my grands, too. I think this is the way, the maternal way, all mothers feel because it is true. The difference for me, as I have seen the kids come back and fall again, over and over, has to do with those words my father spoke. And with my own finally coming to terms with what enabling is, with how it works to the ultimate destruction of respect between parent and child. For me today, the thing I could give back to my children is respect for themselves. Part of that has to be respect for me. How can a man or a woman respect him or herself if he or she does not find the parent worthy of respect?

So, seeing in that way at last, I stood up.

And it seems to have been the right thing.

Just as those parents who come to understand it try to teach the others of us, it is the enabling we need to turn away from, not the child and not loving the child.

But it is one of those concepts it is difficult to find words for. The maternal instinct overwhelms us. It is a difficult concept for us to get a grasp of, this whole business of enabling and respect and granting individuality to our kids.

Holding you and your son in my thoughts, blackgnat.

He seems to be making informed choices, to me. He is not helplessly addled and therefore, does not require protection. That protecting them piece is why it is so hard for us not to enable ~ not even to see it, when we do enable.

But it seems to me, and experience seems to be bearing this out, that what the kids need from us is that we insist they respect both us and themselves.

I'm sorry I cannot be clearer.

I am still feeling my way through all this, too.

Cedar

 

[Copabanana]

Here is a secret thing I believe: It is the most creative, the most brave, who simply have to sample every dangerous thing for themselves.

Blazing creativity; courage and intent.

Gone.

Cedar, I think their must be some biological imperative to this. I mean, if a culture, or species even, has their superstars hiding in a cave, the species will atrophy. The role of the talented or the most fit of a gene pool is to push the limits, to blaze trails, to test their superiority in the harshest environmental conditions. And this has advanced the species. Think about it.

The problem now is with drugs (or even computers, etc) we are dealing with something outside of the natural realm. Can even our brightest and strongest survive a test with a chemical adversary or artificial intelligence?

It makes one believe in science fiction, of which I was never a fan. It scares me.

"I am an old man. Looking back on my life, on the times I exchanged freedom for responsibility...who is to say whether I was right or wrong to spend my life choosing responsibility? It might have been better spent, now that I am old and I see it was true, when they told me I would die one day, for me to have made a different choice."

How wise. I agree with your father, Cedar.

I have been thinking about my time in Brasil, especially. I gave up everything to go. Work. Home. Stuff. Money. How in Rio I lived in the present. In the moment. A physical life. An emotional life. I want it back. I was alive there like I am not here. I wanted to stay for the rest of my life.

But I cannot go back for an extended period as long as I am with M. Or things change.

And though my father's words comforted me, they took D H from guilt and a sense of responsibility to respect for himself and for me and in a way, even for what the kids were doing or were about to do.

Cedar, what specifically about your father's words freed D H?

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Nerf in a post wrote about beginning to ranch at a time she had nothing left to lose. She (and others too) write about this space as fertile ground for the self to be revealed.

I will write on another thread about where I am with that today.

 

[Copabanana]

How can a man or a woman respect him or herself if he or she does not find the parent worthy of respect?

I think this is the heart of it.

I think moving away emotionally, (and perhaps physically) helps the child contain and manage their emotions, and therefore their decisions and behavior.

As we have poor boundaries with our adult children, they, too, have poor boundaries with us.

Their self-hatred floods over onto us. Their anger at themselves, too. The lack of discipline and ambivalence they feel, too, gets projected out.

As long as all of these feelings, feel to them, to be in us, or of us...they feel they either cannot or need not manage them.

They blame us for us.

If we move away, it all becomes clearer. They may come to see the problem as theirs to solve, as having the elements in them to solve it.

I am thinking of that call I got yesterday from my son. That that day he would go and handle his blood work.

That was what he told me the day he left, in the dance about the train ticket. "I can go get my blood work when I arrive in the BIG CITY."

That enrages me. How many times does he need to play out his "blood work" with me? I inserted myself there. Who do I have to look to for responsibility for the dynamic?

I do not have the luxury of responding to anything. If I do I I put myself back into the game. Back into his head. His head is flooded with confusion and with negative feelings. If I get back into his head, I get tarred with the same brush.

The only way I can be respected by him, is to stay out of it a hundred per cent. And restrict my comments to only the most important. To establish and state my moral authority.

No mothering. No feelings. No vacillating. No blame.

In this way potentially my son can begin to respect me, if I stay out of his stuff.

If he can respect me he has a chance to sort his stuff and begin to respect himself.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

While I enjoy this quote, I couldn't disagree with it more! Freedom represents the opportunity to take risks that could cost or gain a little or a lot. I've felt like I had nothing left to lose and can assure you that I didn't feel free in any way, shape, or form.

Cedar, what specifically about your father's words freed D H?

Its an acknowledgement that they are adults and their lives are no longer ours to control. We've raised them, taught them, and now must free them to figure it out themselves. We WILL worry. As parents, that's a given. But at some point, preferably sooner rather than later, we MUST take the training wheels off the bike and watch our children climb on it with or without whatever safety gear THEY choose to wear if any at all. Then, WHEN they fall, we have to stand back and ignore it until IF they ask us for help. When they do ask us for help, we must keep it simple because too much advice is simply another way of trying to control their lives.

I'm almost 50 years old and my parents still worry about me. When we found out that our son was seriously stealing from us when he pawned my guitars, I freaked out and called my mom and dad. They came running and talked to me but they NEVER told me what to do or tried to force me to react in a certain way. They knew that I already knew the answer; already knew what to do. I just needed them there to help calm me down and center myself so I could see what I already knew. They trusted me to do what was right based not only on how they had raised me, but also on what I had learned beyond that as an adult on my own.

This is what we must do as parents now. To trust our children to eventually do the right thing in the face of their monumental frack-ups and in spite of their apparent refusal to acknowledge anything we ever taught them. They are trying to find their identity within society. We can't tell them what that is, cant even guide them towards it because in the end that is only a form of control for us, not the path to knowledge for them.

A lesson I learned a long time ago has served me well in dealing with all of this. I control NOTHING in this universe besides how I react to things around me and NOBODY else in this universe can control my reactions besides me. I could be driving home from work today and have a tire blow out, or a tie rod end go out, or have someone else hit me which causes a crash that kills me. Or not. My wife might stop by the gas station on her way home and win the lottery and leave me. Or not. Russia may chose to launch every nuclear missile in its arsenal at us. Or not. My son may start living his life to societies standards. Or not. He might find success in the lifestyle he's living now. Or not. He might, well I think you get the idea at this point. We cant control what happens or what they do, only then can. Quit trying.

 

[Lil]

My wife might stop by the gas station on her way home and win the lottery and leave me.

Never gonna happen Baby. It's you and me and our villa on the Italian coast.


Besides, do you know what the odds of winning the lottery are?

 

[Jabberwockey]

You know what I meant! Brat!

 

[BusynMember]

have no problem at all with people who draw disability, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment, etc... legitimately. I have a problem with people who are fully capable of working who would rather mooch off of the system because they think its owed to them.

While I agree with this, I have no idea how we, who didn't test those people for benefits, can judge if they should or should not receive benefits. It's not that easy to get SSDI, for example. I am against giving them to drug addicts and calling it a disability. A disability to me is something you can't help and did not cause."

Still...aside from unions and benefits, just working in the U.S. is harder than in other countries because there is no power to the worker and often very little sick pay or paid vacation. And you are always under the threat of being replaced. The company does not have to answer to anybody.

Now the types of lives our Difficult Child live is certainly not going to help them and when drugs are involved they've lost me. My support is gone. But I do understand the hardships today's youth face and understand why some decide to live alternative lives and if they can do it, good for them as long as they can do it without stealing or a certain problem I have...begging.

I am more a rebel in my mind than an actual rebel. I never did the hippie thing. I never drank or even did more than try pot, mostly so that people who said, " Don't knock it till ya tried it" could be told that I did try it and it socks. Which I had no trouble saying. And I stayed on the right side of the law.

But in my mind, I really wish things were different here and I do understand disenfranchised young people, like our generation was (although I did not join the protesting). The bottom line with me was I wanted to be a good citizen and not break the law and be able to tell my kids truthfully that I never got into any serious trouble. Those future kids of mine were on my mind even when I was a teenager.

Maybe I knew that, since my family was Chaos, I would need to build my own family and that they didn't need a mother who was a rebel and had to lie to them about certain things I did in my life. I do not lie to my kids.They do know I tried pot about eight times. Other than that, there is nothing to hide.

 

[blackgnat]

Thanks for all your thoughtful comments. I will keep reading and absorbing.

He is currently sedated in the psychiatric section of a hospital. He had emailed me with a very cryptic note about life and its meaning. He then called exgfs ma to thank her for all she had done and to say goodbye but that there was nothing more she could do for him. (which suggests to me that he wasn't fully committed) , He just didn't want to be here any more .She picked him up and was going to take him to detox but she said he was extremely resistant. Very intoxicated. He had written a suicide note to me and his dad and wanted her to give it to him.

She got him to some hospital where he was eventually admitted-VERY abusive and belligerent. His BAC was .4. That's sometimes classified as coma or death.

He will be evaluated by a psychiatric dr sometime today and please God, admitted to a facility where he can be helped for his multiple issues.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Sending good hopeful thoughts.

 

[Childofmine]

BG always praying and hoping that this time is THE time that he turns and goes in a new direction. Often, it is at the very very worst when things start to turn around...rock bottom.

It will happen as it happens or not.

Holding you close in my thoughts and prayers for peace and strength and looking forward.

Please keep sharing with us. We are here.

 

[pasajes4]

I will be praying for you and for your son. It does not matter how far they fall and how abusive they have been, we love them like only a mother can. Hugs for your hurting mommy heart.

 

[Childofmine]

BG, just checking to see how you are today. Lots of hugs coming your way.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Thinking of you and praying for you and your son........

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

He will be evaluated by a psychiatric dr sometime today and please God, admitted to a facility where he can be helped for his multiple issues.

That is my hope for him too, blackgnat.

Cedar

 

[blackgnat]

Thanks for the kind messages, all.

He is currently in a rehab facility for a few days and is like a caged lion, according to the exgfs ma. She, DCs dad and I decided we would try to have him involuntarily committed by court order ,to a longer term place, because all he does is get out and start the cycle again.

She just emailed me to say that she'd just told him what we want for him and he went ballistic. He said he would kill himself and if he had to stay where he was much longer he would have to go to a mental hospital. She said that if he feels like that, then that is where he belongs and he should tell the staff that. He said he would and that there was a staff member nearby who was listening to everything that was said.

Now of course, I feel terrible. I don't get what would be different from jail, which he quite likes and feels safe inside. It'd be court ordered, but she is trying to get him into a good facility. The liaison person says it might not work because in the past he has been given opportunities to go to treatment but has refused them or not complied. But she's going to try.

Does he really not see that he's just going back to square one if he doesn't get help? He has told me SO many times that he can't handle life on the outside.

This is how I am catastrophising it-he will commit suicide rather than go somewhere and I will never forgive myself. The last messages between us were that we loved each other and now I feel he will hate me and would rather die than be helped.

 

[Lil]

BG I'm just so sorry. I wish I could tell you something to make you feel better about all of this...but all I can do is hold you in my thoughts.

 

[Childofmine]

BG when our dcs are in the thick of it, they cannot know what will work or not work for them. I believe you are at a point with him that could be a turning point for good as well as bad. All of the people who care about him are in sync. It is too bad she decided to tell him anything without knowing what is going to happen and without assistance in telling him from professionals. This is the juncture where our system fails us and them I believe. There are no to very few designated pathways for people who are very sick with mental illness. Of course they don't want to be told what to do by us---they want to keep on until they finally don't. Trying to intervene may or may not work but I think trying is a worthy thing to do. His life on the street is dangerous. Yes he may decide to react but most threaten and do not act. What else can well meaning people like you, who love him, do besides try something different? It is scary for you and for him but where has doing the same things over and over gotten you and him? He is not the best judge of what he needs right now. Get some professional help now to navigate next steps with him. All you can do is try and I believe that is a good thing.

 

[blackgnat]

Thank you! I have calmed down somewhat and feel that you're right COM, the choices HE has made have only led to self destruction and so it's time for a different approach. The suicide threat if we continued with IC was just irrational-let's face it, he is slowly committing suicide on the streets with his lifestyle and the people he's associating with. He's not exactly in the right frame of mind to make a decision like this.

Exgf's ma emailed throughout the evening-apparently he called her back and apologized for his outburst of the phone call. (The staff director had calmed him down by talking to him.) He told her it was the shock of hearing what we wanted to happen that caused his reaction -someone else in the facility has parents that are also trying to do IC and he fears that he'll be waiting there for weeks before a bed is available somewhere. He said that he didn't mind waiting, but he wanted to do it living in his dad's bus, where he could have coffee and cigarettes. She said that he'd tried that before and look where it had got him. He is allowed to have nicotine gum, so she got some for him-I think that's a big factor for the mentally ill-there's some scientific connection between the calming properties of nicotine and the brain's chemistry. I read once that for schizophrenics, the nicotine somehow filters out the tics and noises they hear that trigger episodes, or something like that.

Later he called her and said that he'd just been to an AA meeting that had changed his perspective (the cynic in me marvels at this) and he told her if she wanted to go ahead with the IC , he'd " go wherever". But that he would also work with her on the places he was supposed to have applied to, but hasn't.

So in all, I think this course of action we've proposed is galvanizing HIM into action.

Thanks for the support. Baby steps...

 

[Childofmine]

Later he called her and said that he'd just been to an AA meeting that had changed his perspective (the cynic in me marvels at this) and he told her if she wanted to go ahead with the IC , he'd " go wherever".

You can't believe how powerful 12-step is for them and for us until you experience it yourself. The first time I "crawled" into Al-Anon---you would have thought that would have been my complete rock bottom, but turns out, it wasn't, looking back---I stayed for 18 months, attending regularly, getting a sponsor, etc., but I wasn't 100 percent into the program. I still thought I could control and manage and fix. I didn't want to let go completely---just partially.

I stayed away for several years, thinking that, well, I'm now divorced from the alcoholic so...why would I go to Al-Anon? Problem solved.

Wrong again.

When the severity of my Difficult Child's problems became apparent to me, which again, took some time, because I was in the dark + in denial, I knew right where to go.

I went back to Al-Anon---nearly five years ago---and this time I was completely ready to surrender myself and work the program.

Since that time, I have grown in ways I never could have imagined. I am a much more honest person today, I have matured greatly, I look at myself first (most of the time) to see what I need to change, instead of looking at others first and focusing on them and how they are doing everything wrong.

I have so much more humility and I can say I'm wrong, and I'm sorry, and I changed my mind.

There is so much power in even just the silences, in the sameness of the meetings, in the trust, knowing without speaking that other people completely understand. I have learned how to let go more and more and more, and that is why I keep going back, every week, regardless of what Difficult Child does or does not do.

Al-Anon is a program for all of life. It is a tremendous gift and it is completely free. All I have to do is keep showing up.

If your son would embrace AA...I mean really embrace it...you can't believe what could happen.

I am praying that happens for him and for you. Warm hugs today.