Having trouble setting boundaries for entitled son

[Origami]

Hi All,
I've been off the boards for a while since I thought things were going better. My 19-year-old difficult child quit his job in September (someone "disrespected" him), and has not worked since. He had a pending court case for misdemeanor speeding that was continued several times, but he was finally given a sentence of 150 hours of community service and a $500 fine plus traffic school. This is all due in June and then it will be final. We (husband and I) didn't push him to get a job while the court case was pending since his court-appointed attorney said she thought he might get jail time and he didn't want to start a job with that over his head. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that he and his girlfriend of six months got married at the courthouse two months ago! (both age 19) They're living in son's bedroom in our house. She works full time and is a lovely, nice young lady who also gets frustrated with our son's behavior.

Since the court case has been dragging on and on, he's been getting lazier and more entitled. I realize we didn't help the situation by allowing him to be idle like that, but now we're really getting ticked off and need to set boundaries that should have been set long ago. I mention pretty much every day that he needs to get a job, and he tells me to stop repeating myself. He has many reasons not to work: That company is lame, they don't pay enough, it's too far away, I'm not qualified for that, etc. We tell him that he's old enough to be married, he's old enough to get a job and take care of himself and his wife. But between the room and board and mooching off his wife, he doesn't seem to care. He just lowers his expectations to meet whatever he can get from other people. I sent him a bunch of links to places that are hiring, and he shoots each one down. There's a grocery store down the street with a Help Wanted sign on the door for a utility clerk, but he doesn't want to work at a grocery store. We're just an average family, not rich by any means, and I don't know where he got the idea that he doesn't need to work for a living. I know he has some social anxiety, but I think a lot of people just suck it up and get over it. I should mention that his wife is paying us rent from her checks. She's trying, but he's not.

Last night was ugly. He had locked his wife out of their room because he was mad at her for wanting to go bowling with her friends. She wanted to get her car keys and wallet so she could go to the store, and he refused to open the door. My husband went back to talk to him, and they got in a shouting match and my husband said he wanted him out of the house and we need to stop enabling him. He's been going to therapy and said that's what his therapist recommended. Here's where I step in as the weak link since I didn't want to kick him and his wife out. She's such a sweet young woman, and I really don't want her to be in that situation because of him. He finally calmed down after my husband threatened to call the police. He had been shouting, cursing, and throwing things.

Another thing that is getting old is his demanding and critical nature. Almost every day he calls me at work and says, "I'm bored and there's literally nothing to eat in the house." Then he asks if he can buy fast food or delivery. He argued with me the other day when he wanted to buy a pizza and I said "no," and he wanted to know why it was OK for me and his dad to buy pizza (which we had the night before) but I wouldn't let him get one. I told him he could buy any food he wanted when he got a job, but in the meantime he could eat what we have on hand at home. There's plenty of food in the freezer, fridge and cupboards, but it's not what he wants. He texted me that "all the food at home is garbage" and said that's why we ordered our own pizza.

My husband and I talked about the situation and agreed that we need to set some boundaries with him. The stress of interacting with him is getting to us, and his overall attitude is just so arrogant and rude. He can be helpful and nice when he wants to be, but the rude part seems to overshadow this part. And the laziness is just pretty unbelievable. We want to give him a deadline to get a job, but I don't know how to enforce this. I'm guessing he'll just blow off anything we say and think we're not going to follow through, which has been the pattern in the past. I realize it will take them a while to save up enough money to move even after he gets a job, and we don't mind them being here if progress is being made and he's not yelling at people and being unpleasant. But enough is enough. Although we've managed to get our other difficult son to move out, this one is harder for me somehow because he's my youngest and we've been very close in the past. I think he doesn't see himself as a capable adult and I'm having trouble with it also. I know a lot of you have been successful with setting boundaries, and I'd welcome any suggestions or maybe I just needed to vent. I'd like to offer some concrete requests beyond "you need to get a job."

 

[BusynMember]

I didnt even get to the whole post because I was getting so frustrated. Do you know that his blocking his wife from going out is donestic abuse? in my opinion this girl, if sweet, deserves better than what your son is offering. Also, there is no way on this planet that my married son would live in my house and treat me like dirt in front of his wife. Your husband agrees with me. He'd be gone if he were mine. Gone, gone, gone. Yes, it is hard to do, but I made my daughter leave for less and she grew up once on her own. No, they don't all do that....but this is him treating you like a slave in your own castle, upsetting your husband who also deseves peace and abusing his new wife. I am guessing she will leave him and hope it is before a baby is created.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but the gall I see in your son just rubs me wrong. You cant fix his issues by housing him and he could be dangerous some day. His temper sounds wicked. He should not try to control his wife. I cant think of any words you can say to him to make a difference in him. He has to do it and right now he thinks hes the boss of all of you.

I truly hope you and your husband can get on the same page and do what you feel is best for both of you. Your house/your rules...and home should be a safe place for both of you. If you have any other kids at home, the youngest should be protected from the chaos. Do get counseling about this with hubby. I am not the final word (you and hub are) but my opinion is...choose yourselves and happiness and peace. The girl is your sons problem and probably has family.

Good luck and warm wishes for a good ending.

 

[in a daze]

He had locked his wife out of their room because he was mad at her for wanting to go bowling with her friends. She wanted to get her car keys and wallet so she could go to the store, and he refused to open the door.

He sounds very controlling. I second what SWOT said. I know you love your son, but he shouldn't treating your daughter in law like this. It is really over the top. She cannot go out with her girlfriends? Really?

But I don't think you should enable him to protect her.

I would not cook him any special meals. I would not buy with him in mind when you go grocery shopping. If he is not working, why is he asking if he can order out? Does he have your credit card or something?

Ugh, brings back memories of buying all his favorite frozen food crap, making special meals for him because h e was depressed and he was a fussy eater, ordering a sandwich for him because he wouldn't come out of his room to come out with us. I finally stopped doing this on the advice of my sister in law. My nephew was a real gift from God, but he is doing much better these days.

That's what I would do...make it not so comfortable for him.

Maybe he needs to be out of the house during the day. He can go to the public library and use their computer to look for jobs. We actually did this with our son. He did get a job. (Although that was not the end of his problems, but at least it's something on his resume). Gave him 5 $ for lunch. He was locked out till we came home.

It is so very hard to detach. I still struggle with it, in a different way, as my son hasn't lived with us for over two years, although if he had his way, he would still be here.

I remember your other son. He had a wife and kids, and addiction issues, as I recall. How is he doing?

I am so sorry, Oregami, that you are going through this (expletive) with another one of your offspring.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

we don't mind them being here if progress is being made and he's not yelling at people and being unpleasant.

I think he doesn't see himself as a capable adult and I'm having trouble with it also.

"...if progress is being made and he's not yelling at people and being unpleasant."

You have answered your own question regarding how to proceed, Origami. If he were two, you would set parameters around his behaviors and your responses to them.

You are correct in your thinking that this nineteen year old still requires teaching and parenting and stability. Everything will change once the Court date has come and gone.

Is your son applying for work, or thinking about school? Could boredom and feeling like a loser be contributing to his behaviors? Would it help if he were to volunteer at an Animal Shelter, do you think? This would provide structure for him, and so many living creatures to care for and about.

That might help him very much.

Cedar

 

[Origami]

Thanks for your replies, and it really helps just to get clarity on things I already know but have trouble with. SWOT, I thought about your advice and I've always admired the way you can cut to the chase in a straightforward manner. I had been mulling over what do I say, how do I set boundaries, etc., and I just decided to think of the main things and go from there, not try to sugarcoat anything. So today I told him that he really needs to get serious about getting a job, that it's a critical thing. He said that, after the way his dad talked to him the other night, he's super motivated to get a job and move out. So maybe the fight wasn't such a bad thing?

I also told him I'm not buying him any more fast food, that he can eat whatever's on hand in the house or I would even give him money to buy real food that he likes at the grocery store. I said I'm not going to live with people walking on eggshells around him and that he needs to be more civil with everyone. And I told him that his constant criticism (ie. "there's only garbage for food in this house") needs to stop. He said OK to all this, but of course it remains to be seen if he'll try to comply. I didn't set out any real deadlines or consequences, so I feel like the talk might have been too open-ended, but I just feel like I'll start with these ideas and revisit them when needed.

I don't cook him special meals, but I do let him and his wife eat with us if we're actually sitting down to eat and I let them have run of the leftovers. They've actually bought some groceries with wife's paycheck today, so I'm not that concerned about the food except that it irks me to have him begging for takeout or fast food when he's just too lazy to make anything at home.

Scent of Cedar, he has been applying for jobs but mainly online, with no responses so far. He has spent the last few weeks working for free with his wife's father to get his community service hours he needs for court. I was glad to see that he did that, at least. He usually does well on the job, but it's the applying and getting the job that he avoids.

In a daze, thanks for asking about my other son. He was doing well for a time with his new job, and his boss was going to pay for training so he could be promoted, etc. But then he quit (suspect he was fired for too many "sick" days) and he and the family have now moved to a small town to live with his wife's family. He's unemployed and taking care of the kids while his wife works. Unfortunately, he's still addicted to heroin, so I don't know what will happen with him long term. I see them infrequently now, maybe once every month or so.

 

[susiestar]

It is time to sit down with yoour husband and decide on some ground rules. Also on consequences for not abiding iwth the rules. one rule is that until he is supporting himself, wife, children AND YOU & husband, he is not to EVER tell you how to spend your $$. Also that basic manner are to be observed or he can get out. I would not tolerate the rudeness & disrespect for another minute. Did you treat your parents that way? I would have been out quickly if my parents ever even thought they might have to call the cops on me.

If he isn't in school with a part time job then he needs to go out and figure out his own way in the world. It just is hwat adults do. If he is too good for a paying job, give him a list of chores, turn off the cable and internet (unplug the system during the day and take it with you if you need too) and tell him that he can have tv and internet if he has his chores done when you get home. those chores should include cleaning, dishes, laundry having a dinner ready and caring for any animals you have. Heck, get a cheap nanny cam and set it to record during the day to monitor him if need be. Can't cook? Get the boy a cookbook. All of these are life skills that he NEEDS and there is no time like the present for him to learn. If you are creative (turn off the air conditioning during the day too), you can make being at home FAR more work than any job and make him eager to get a job. I got one at 14 and still had a subtantial chore list, esp compared to my friends.

He may need a substantial kick in the pants to make him actually do the chores. Heck, he would not eat dinner in my home until he had it fixed for the rest of us, without trashing the kitchen. I am totally 100% serious about turning off at least the internet during the day for him. Computers are a huge time slurp and he likely has some degree of dependency on the computer. I think many teens do, esp those content to sit home all day. The first week of no internet will be awful but it should pick up if he can then earn computer use by getting his chore list done. You likely have to do some teaching for how to do chores, and some standard setting, but also give up some control. If he says product x works better, let him give it a try. My mom did all this and raised 2 kids who could run a house by age 16-17. Partly because she was totally unable to do basic chores due to her mom dying young and her dad hiring a housekeeper who didn't teach my mom anything about chores. We got them early and were capable. My friends with moms who didn't give them chores ended up with kids who didn't have the ability to run their own lives. My kids even difficult child had chores and got my creative consequences and all can do most household chores. My bro's ex refuses to make niece do any chores and niece is as useless as any child I have ever met. SHe isn't able to do chores and feels like she isn't able to do anything.

Another reason for chores is that the less you have to do, the less you get done. If you hve too much free time, you don't even get the minimum amt of stuff done. It is time for son to do things to support himself and to earn some confidence and self esteem. Keep him busy - loud cheerful music to wake him up, etc... I have a cousin who never did chores until he got a girlfriend. I adore this girl because she not only insisted that he help her father with things like yard projects, she also sat his idiot parents down and bawled them out for not making him do any chores at their home. She literally gave him chore lists and if he didn't do them to HER satisfaction (FAR higher than his parents), he could not spend time with her. She even gave his useless father some regular chores, lol! She was only 14 when hse started this, but she turned my cousin into a responsible young man and father. It was shocking and beautiful to watch the imposition of some structure and a few logical consequences change him into an enjoyable human being.

I don't think your son is capable of structuring his time right now. He suddenlly doesn't have anything to impose structure and likely doesn't know how to do it. It isn't fun, but imposing some chores and structure reallly can restore your relationship. My son hated me for several years, but now has openly thanked me for the chores and for fighting to make him learn how to do them and all the other things we insisted on. He could stop his medications if he wanted, but he has chosen to stay on them because he likes who he is when he is on them and able to use the tools we fought to teach him about life and working. We thought he would hate us forever, esp given all the fighting he did over even minor things like showering. But he didn't. Your son will fight, hence removing the internet, etc... and no dinner until he fixes it for all, etc.... But in a few years he will see the value of what you need to teach him.

 

[BusynMember]

Whatever possessed him to get married? Both seem like children, expecting you to pay for their needs and even cook meals.

You are very kind. I hope he appreciates your good heart. There is no way, if my nineteen year old married, that theyd live with me. And I wouldnt cook or do laudry or most of all financially support the pair.

Seriously, he needs to cooperate and be humble. You are going over the top to help him. If he doesnt also help himself grow up,to me this shows disrespect...not trying hard while you do everything for him.

Wishing you all and only the best. Take care of YOU most of all, please. He is a young man now with a wife.you've done your mommy time. This is your time to focus on yourself first. He is not that cute little six year old...he is of age for college,a full time job with benefits, and men his age are also serving our country. See him as a man, not the child that he is not.

JMO

 

[Childofmine]

Origami, it's great to hear from you and hear what is going on. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Nineteen-year-old young men, especially DCs, are a challenge!

We want to give him a deadline to get a job, but I don't know how to enforce this. I'm guessing he'll just blow off anything we say and think we're not going to follow through, which has been the pattern in the past. I realize it will take them a while to save up enough money to move even after he gets a job, and we don't mind them being here if progress is being made and he's not yelling at people and being unpleasant. But enough is enough.

It sounds like from your post even from Saturday you are gaining clarity. It also sounds like his wife, who sounds fairly mature and sweet, is clouding the issue.

One of the key things I learned through all of this is to act with reasonableness. One of the challenges we face is we keep quiet and keep quiet and keep quiet, and the resentment builds, and the we blow our tops and say all kinds of things.

Instead, if you can wait until you are calm and keep it very simple, just a few boundaries with clear simple consequences, it might help.

1. Move out date. What is reasonable? 30 days? 60 days? Be reasonable, be clear and communicate to both the son and his wife at the same time so they have plenty of notice and are very clear about the timeline.

2. Chores. Have him and her both do a few every week. Keep it reasonable. If they don't, what? Just a simple consequences.

3. Money. If you are giving them any, stop. Give them notice that it's going to stop.

4. Looking back, one thing I think would have really helped me is to make sure he left the house when everybody else did, whether he had a job or not. I know others have done this, and their Difficult Child is out of the house from 8 until 5, or whatever the hours are. Most people are going to finally find something to do, and perhaps that's get a job.

We all know that if nothing changes, nothing changes. We have to be the change.

Remember he is very immature at age 19. Keep it clear and simple and try not to do it when you're mad.

It won't go smoothly, and be all pretty and perfect, but it's a start. We have to push them so they have a chance to grow up. if we just sit and hope and pray they will grow up, and keep things comfortable for them, it only delays the inevitable. We grow most when we are uncomfortable, and so do they.

Hang in there and keep us posted! This stuff is exhausting and very hard.

 

[Tanya M]

Hi Origami,

I'm just now getting caught up. How are things going?

When it comes to boundaries with our d-c's you have to be very specific as they are good at finding "loop holes"
You really might want to consider putting everything in writing and have your son sign it. That way if he doesn't follow through on something he can't claim "you didn't tell me that".

If it were me, I would set a specific time limit on how long they can live there. Give a specific date and have both of them sign this. (hopefully it won't come to this but if you had to evict them this document would be useful)

Something you might consider if you can, you said the wife is paying rent out of her paycheck, you could set this money aside and save it for them. When the move out date comes you could give it back to them to help with getting their own place.

As for the incident of your son locking the wife out of the room, I would remove the lock.

Some food for thought; the more uncomfortable you can make it for them the better as they will not want to stay. If it were me, I would go as far as canceling the cable. I would also disconnect the wifi or change the password.

I know you are concerned for the new wife as you said she is a very sweet girl, but remember, she made her choice, that is on her not on you. There are consequences to the actions we take, good or bad.

My son also married the sweetest girl and he destroyed their marriage. It broke my heart for her but in the end, it made her a much stronger person.

Let us know how things are going.

 

[Origami]

Thanks again for your thoughtful replies. I think I was somewhat in a panic after his tirade the other night, as it just brought back a lot of memories of the "bad old days" when his tantrums were very frequent. He hasn't acted out like that in probably 9 months, so I really didn't want to go back to those days. He has since assured me that it won't become a regular thing again. (we'll see)

He and his wife had been dating only 5 months when they decided to get married. She had been practically living with us (over almost every day), and I thought they were joking when they said they were getting married. When it was clear they were serious, I told my son, "You know, it might be better for you to wait until you've known each other longer. There's no need to rush into it." He said, "I'm 19 and you can't stop me." Husband and I decided to be supportive since there was no talking them out of it. We were that age when we got married, but I feel like we were better prepared as had jobs, a car, an apartment, etc. already. We'll celebrate our 36th anniversary next week!

All your suggestions about setting boundaries are so helpful.

1. Move out date. What is reasonable? 30 days? 60 days? Be reasonable, be clear and communicate to both the son and his wife at the same time so they have plenty of notice and are very clear about the timeline.

2. Chores. Have him and her both do a few every week. Keep it reasonable. If they don't, what? Just a simple consequences.

3. Money. If you are giving them any, stop. Give them notice that it's going to stop.

I'm kind-of struggling with the move out date idea. I've mentioned it before without a specific deadline, and my son reminded me that I let his brother live with us for 18 months when he was on house arrest. He says, "So if I become addicted to heroin and get arrested, I can stay?" He's been talking about joining the Army, but can't do so until after his court case is resolved (after June). If he does, that would take care of a lot. I want to give them enough time to get him into a job and save for rent, but I don't want it to be too open-ended. I'll have to think about this.

They are willing to do chores when I ask, but I haven't been very specific or consistent with this. They have been cleaning their bedroom and bathroom regularly and taking out trash.

We had been giving my son spending money since he quit his job. The idea originally was so he could buy gas for his car so he could look for jobs. Then he lost the car and now has a suspended license, so doesn't drive. He'll still ask for money for fast food, coffee, and cigarettes, and it does add up. I've never smoked a day in my life, yet I've spent hundreds of dollars on his cigarettes. This was mostly done to stop his begging and whining when he was out of them. (I know, enabling at it's best.) Then I got to the point where I would say "no," and my husband would give in because he didn't want to hear the complaining. Ugh, double enabling.

Well, yay me, I did tell him that I wasn't buying fast food or cigarettes for him anymore, case closed. He looked at me like I was a space alien and said, "OK????" It hasn't come up again since his wife's paycheck hasn't run out.

I don't think your son is capable of structuring his time right now. He suddenlly doesn't have anything to impose structure and likely doesn't know how to do it. It isn't fun, but imposing some chores and structure reallly can restore your relationship.

Good point, susiestar. He's been floating so long, ever since he dropped out of high school, and only had structure for the few months he was working.

Some food for thought; the more uncomfortable you can make it for them the better as they will not want to stay. If it were me, I would go as far as canceling the cable. I would also disconnect the wifi or change the password.

I probably have been trying too hard to appease him and calm him down when he gets mouthy and critical. I'll keep your food for thought in mind and try to stop worrying about his delicate feelings all the time when he's being unreasonable.

I think he's really been upset that I mostly cook only for myself and my husband. If I'm making a bigger dinner, I'll tell them there's food they can have, or if I'm actually making a sit-down dinner I'll invite them to join us. They generally eat in their room, though. Sometimes his wife will come out and eat with us without him, though, which is interesting. She seems so normal compared to him, and I kind-of don't get the attraction!

Just writing these things and thinking through them is making me feel better about the situation and that I can exert some control over my surroundings again.

 

[Tanya M]

my son reminded me that I let his brother live with us for 18 months when he was on house arrest. He says, "So if I become addicted to heroin and get arrested, I can stay?"

This is emotional blackmail. He is trying to manipulate the situation. I urge you to be very careful when he makes comments like this. If it were me, I would respond something like this "yes, we did let him stay here but in hind site it was not the best choice for him or us and we will not repeat this with you"

He'll still ask for money for fast food, coffee, and cigarettes, and it does add up. I've never smoked a day in my life, yet I've spent hundreds of dollars on his cigarettes. This was mostly done to stop his begging and whining when he was out of them. (I know, enabling at it's best.) Then I got to the point where I would say "no," and my husband would give in because he didn't want to hear the complaining. Ugh, double enabling.

Here's the thing, if you or your husband give into him to get him to stop begging and whining, he wins. He has now figured out how to manipulate you. I might be willing to buy a bus pass so he could look for work but there is no way I would pay to support his smoking habit.
This is where having strong, firm boundaries in writing will help. "we will not give you money to buy cigarettes, if you don't like this feel free to live somewhere else"
I know this may sound harsh but the longer he gets away with it, the longer he will continue to get away with it.

I think he's really been upset that I mostly cook only for myself and my husband. If I'm making a bigger dinner, I'll tell them there's food they can have, or if I'm actually making a sit-down dinner I'll invite them to join us.

You should only be cooking for you and your husband. He is a grown man, now married, not working, and he still expects his mother to cook for him. Again, boundaries.

Hang in there Origami. Take some time to reflect and gather your thoughts. Sit down with your husband and make a list of your expectations and from there you can come up with a list of boundaries.

 

[BusynMember]

Oragami, I am not sure, but do you really want to create the same situation with this son that you did with your oldest? Wasn't his entire family at your house until he was about 28? Are you healthy enough to live with that stress as you get older? Caring for babies you know they'll have if they get too comfortable?

Your son is nowhere near as mature as you and hub were when you married. Did your parents pay your bills? Was your husband on parole? Were you unemployed, living with your parents? Age is irrelevant
Maturity is everything. He still has a child's mind.

Do you see a therapist for yourself? in my opinion nothing good comes of mothering a defiant difficult young man AND his wife. Think of YOU. JMO

 

[Childofmine]

Origami, Tanya is giving you really good advice here.

This is emotional blackmail. He is trying to manipulate the situation.

I don't know about you, but I always tried to make everything equal with my two sons. They could poke me every single time by saying I did something for one that I wasn't doing for the other. I reacted. It worked. I am a big "fairness" person. So, both of them knew very well what to do and say to get what they wanted. Over these past years, as you know, both of my sons took very different paths. Different circumstances call for different reactions from parents. We can't act the same when the situations are different, and as we learn more, we can do better. Most of us know on this forum that our doing for our grown adult children isn't good for them or for us. Stopping is still very very hard, even though in our intellectual minds, we can see clearly that this isn't good.

Your son knows how to push your buttons, and he's going to do it every time. I finally learned to say this: I'm not going to debate it with you. I've decided and I'm not going to change my mind. I'm sorry if you don't think my decision is fair.

Don't even go there with him, because you'll just go round and round and feel worse and worse. Say your piece and walk away. Our grown kids don't have to like or agree with what we say or do, and believe me, you're not going to cause anything to be worse than it already is. We just don't have that kind of power over them.

Here's the thing, if you or your husband give into him to get him to stop begging and whining, he wins. He has now figured out how to manipulate you. I might be willing to buy a bus pass so he could look for work but there is no way I would pay to support his smoking habit.
This is where having strong, firm boundaries in writing will help. "we will not give you money to buy cigarettes, if you don't like this feel free to live somewhere else"
I know this may sound harsh but the longer he gets away with it, the longer he will continue to get away with it.

I will never forget taking my son to rehab in a city four hours away. I dreaded the ride, and I dreaded leaving him there, and I was very emotional. After I took him there, he asked the people at the rehab place if there was a place to buy cigarettes there. They said no. He then turned to me and said, Mom will you go and buy two cartons of cigarettes and bring them back here? I just have to have something.

And guess what? I did it! I drove to a convenience store, bought two cartons of cigarettes to the tune of $90 and took them back. After I did it, and while I was driving home, I regretted that action. I swore at that point I would never again buy him cigarettes and I haven't. I know it is the lesser of the evils, that it's a smaller battle, etc., etc., etc. I see all of that. But i'll be darned if I'm going to ever again be the agent of him smoking.

If you must buy him anything, buy only things that will actually and truly help him, like food (you don't want him to be hungry), transportation, like a bus pass or a bicycle, a pair of shoes to go on a job interview or something that actually will ADD to his success, not detract from it. I know it's hard to tell them no about these kinds of things, but we have to slow down and get really really clear about what we are willing to do and what we aren't willing to do...without manipulation and interference from them. And then, even harder, we have to stick to it.

You are dealing well with all of this. It is really really hard to set boundaries when we are exhausted, scared, frustrated and sad about our precious adult DCs. But again, it is the best thing for them and for us when we can. Go slow, and take it one day at a time. It doesn't have to happen overnight.

 

[youngfool]

Just putting my 2 cents in I'm new to all this and im just starting my journey but the part about how you let his brother stay and if he did the same would that make it ok for him to stay that stuck with me he sounds like my son knows exactly what buttons to push very smart of him I know that must of caught you off guard if your like me that must of really hurt so sorry for you but I've had very similar things thrown at me and worse I know it's easy to say but you have to stand up to that trust me if he's saying stuff like that now it will get worse my son told me that if I put him out if he became a failure it would be all my fault you can't reason with that mentality I've tried set a boundary you can stick with no matter how small and follow it up then you can build on that but it has to start somewhere take what you like from this I feel your pain keep us posted

 

[Origami]

Just a small and almost humorous update--I talked to son about things and he and his wife have been pitching in around the house more, buying some groceries, etc. He even seemed more serious about looking for jobs. I caught him talking to a guy at a construction site near our house and he said he was asking him if they were hiring. He told me about several jobs he's applied for, and about people he's been talking to about jobs. Then, hurray! He got a job interview at a car dealership! The interview was yesterday.

So I called him after work and said, "How did your job interview go?"
"Oh, I didn't go. It was an informal thing so I figured I'd just go in tomorrow." With all my composure, I said, "If someone told you to come in on a certain day for an interview, why do you think it's OK to go on a different day?" He suddenly had to get off the phone and didn't answer my question.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I doubt he's going in today either.

He was worrying about how to pay his court fines the other day, since he has $500 due in about a month and has only saved $100 (from his wife's job). He also didn't know where he was supposed to take his driving school. He was reading off his court papers to me over the phone. I told him maybe he needs to call his attorney about all this. He said he didn't have the attorney's number. So I told him to call the public defender's office. He said, "I don't know how they expect me to come up with $500 miraculously." I said, "Maybe they expected you to get a job over the last few months." I also told him that it sounds like he needs to spend some time figuring out all the logistics and what he's going to do. I know the whole point of the conversation was for me to feel sorry for him and offer to bail him out. It's not happening this time.