Thank you. We are working on the "communication" issue and have NOT been tolerating this type of behavior. I used to scold her and then get the drink and go into the movie but we have noticed this behavior has been increasing in the past few years. She is now quiet in her room and I am working. Not exactly how I wanted to spend the day but I am seeing that I have to change the way I was handling things. I am really, really good about making sure she is on a good routine with sleeping, eating, etc. There is a lot of down time - I think too much in the summer. As I mentioned previously, we have 'NO ONE' and I a mean 'NO ONE'. I have not friends to do join activities with and my extended family is gone. Husband's parents are not involved and go months without seeing her (never been involved). Could the isolation and endless hours of being alone have maybe caused some of this behavior?
Help! I don't think I will get through summer with 10 year with ODD/ADD
- Thread starter droesch
- Start date
Not likely.
As I said, we had to "shut down our lives".
difficult child has a younger sibling... and K2 is (generally) not a difficult child. Highly social, needs people.
We had to take "people" out of our lives. For years.
And K2?
Came through it just fine.
Developed all sorts of friendships at school, special interests, pen-pals, anything for human contact that didn't involve "home". K2 is thriving.
More likely, social situations are a major problem for your difficult child. Just the thought of going "out" may ramp up her anxiety - very, VERY common with Aspies and others who have social skills deficits.
How structured is your "summer" day? Is there a specific, predictable pattern to the day?
As I said, we had to "shut down our lives".
difficult child has a younger sibling... and K2 is (generally) not a difficult child. Highly social, needs people.
We had to take "people" out of our lives. For years.
And K2?
Came through it just fine.
Developed all sorts of friendships at school, special interests, pen-pals, anything for human contact that didn't involve "home". K2 is thriving.
More likely, social situations are a major problem for your difficult child. Just the thought of going "out" may ramp up her anxiety - very, VERY common with Aspies and others who have social skills deficits.
How structured is your "summer" day? Is there a specific, predictable pattern to the day?
I guess I am just looking for reasons why this is happening but thinking back we had social issues with her when she was a baby. Not very lovable, didn't smile a lot and very uncomfortable with any type of affection. I just assumed it was because she had not been exposed enough to people. Well, I have purposely removed ourselves from a lot of social situations - however, it is very difficult on me. I am depressed with my life or lack there of if you want to call it that. Summer consists of me working early am. and then she may have a friend in the neighborhood or not (most of the time) . We may go do errands or go to the pool.
She sounds more and more like a "spectrum" kid to me... Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) or Aspie.
In which case - you aren't doing anything wrong, and you did NOT cause her to be this way.
Is her dad a bit unsocial too? Any chance Aspie traits run in his family? (genetics isn't the only factor in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)/Aspie, but it is a factor)
Is there an Autism society near you? They often have social skills classes etc. Here... you can't get in without a formal diagnosis, other places you can.
If she IS an Aspie? She needs a LOT more structure. Because she hasn't had that at home, it will take time to build it. Aspie's don't handle major change well - they need step-wise change. Is there anything around the house that she is good enough at to become "really" good at? Like... could she be in charge of making breakfast? packing lunch for dad (assuming he takes one...)? baking? dusting? dishes (even just loading/unloading dishwasher)?
Does she have a particular "interest" - the kind that she drives everybody else nuts with?
In which case - you aren't doing anything wrong, and you did NOT cause her to be this way.
Is her dad a bit unsocial too? Any chance Aspie traits run in his family? (genetics isn't the only factor in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)/Aspie, but it is a factor)
Is there an Autism society near you? They often have social skills classes etc. Here... you can't get in without a formal diagnosis, other places you can.
If she IS an Aspie? She needs a LOT more structure. Because she hasn't had that at home, it will take time to build it. Aspie's don't handle major change well - they need step-wise change. Is there anything around the house that she is good enough at to become "really" good at? Like... could she be in charge of making breakfast? packing lunch for dad (assuming he takes one...)? baking? dusting? dishes (even just loading/unloading dishwasher)?
Does she have a particular "interest" - the kind that she drives everybody else nuts with?
I don't know what an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is. She was diagnosis'd with ODD, Anxiety and slight ADHD several years back. We chose not to medicate. I know that Aspie's have social issues; but I think some of hers are a result of the ODD. She is social but she has to be comfortable with whom she is with and it takes her a long time to feel that way.
*She displays every one of these symptoms:
She doesn't display Aspie symptoms other than the social issues.
*She displays every one of these symptoms:
- Have temper tantrums (none of these)
- Be argumentative with adults (90% of the time)
- Refuse to comply with adult requests or rules (90% of the time)
- Annoy other people deliberately (my husband and I all the time)
- Blames others for mistakes or misbehavior (100%)
- Acts touchy and is easily annoyed (most of the time)
- Feel anger and resentment
- Be spiteful or vindictive
- Act aggressively toward peers (not this)
- Have difficulty maintaining friendships (seems to change best friend week to week)
- Have academic problems (not this)
- Feel a lack of self-esteem (i am not so sure about this one)
She doesn't display Aspie symptoms other than the social issues.
We went down that path. Trust me.
ODD is a throw-away diagnosis. It describes behavior, but there is NOTHING you can do for ODD. No medications, no interventions, no accommodations, nothing. Not even totally changing your parenting style will fix it. (we tried)
I got confused with the "Official" list of Aspie symptoms.
But many of the things on the ODD list, looked at through a different lens, can also be Aspie.
How is she at sports? Team, or individual? Some people can handle solo competitive sport, but not the teamwork aspect - what I'm looking for is, how are her gross motor skills? How old before she learned to ride a bike? to swim?
How is she at fine motor skills tasks - handwriting, drawing, doing up fussy buttons, tying a bow behind her back (such as an apron), tying shoes?
Motor skills challenges OFTEN go undetected... and are often part of Aspie.
Does she have a favorite topic of conversation? A stuck-in-a-rut kind of topic?
ODD is a throw-away diagnosis. It describes behavior, but there is NOTHING you can do for ODD. No medications, no interventions, no accommodations, nothing. Not even totally changing your parenting style will fix it. (we tried)
I got confused with the "Official" list of Aspie symptoms.
But many of the things on the ODD list, looked at through a different lens, can also be Aspie.
- Have temper tantrums (none of these) - That shouting at the movie food line? that's an Aspie-style "melt-down". An "out of control" reaction to a situation where things don't go "as planned". Aspies are really stuck on "plans".
- Be argumentative with adults (90% of the time) - we got into SO many arguments... and the real root cause? Aspie literality. Black and white thinking. Once you see the pattern... it makes more sense.
- Refuse to comply with adult requests or rules (90% of the time) - how much is really refusal, and how much is inability? Just because they can some of the time, doesn't mean they can all of the time. There can be dozens of reasons for this one.
- Annoy other people deliberately (my husband and I all the time) - How do you know it's deliberate? People with poor social skills don't "read" the situation the same way you do. She may be seeking attention the only way she knows how - it may not be done TO ANNOY you...
- Blames others for mistakes or misbehavior (100%) - any kid who's been on the short end of the stick for too long ends up here. been there done that.
- Acts touchy and is easily annoyed (most of the time) - "Touchy" isn't an act. You are, or you are not. If you are... you can't help it. Could be lots of reasons for this depending on the situation.
- Feel anger and resentment
- Be spiteful or vindictive - could be more than one interpretation of the situation. Maybe you're making assumptions about motive?
- Act aggressively toward peers (not this)
- Have difficulty maintaining friendships (seems to change best friend week to week) - not usual with Aspies. It isn't that they don't WANT friends. They have trouble with peer relationships.
- Have academic problems (not this) - For an Aspie, this is more tied to intelligence, and whether or not there are other issues (LDs, Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), etc.) that interfere with learning.
- Feel a lack of self-esteem (i am not so sure about this one) - From the behaviour you describe? I'll just about guarantee she has this issue. Kids who don't quite find their place in "the world" tend to take it out on themselves. Not all can express it - so it comes out in behavior.
How is she at sports? Team, or individual? Some people can handle solo competitive sport, but not the teamwork aspect - what I'm looking for is, how are her gross motor skills? How old before she learned to ride a bike? to swim?
How is she at fine motor skills tasks - handwriting, drawing, doing up fussy buttons, tying a bow behind her back (such as an apron), tying shoes?
Motor skills challenges OFTEN go undetected... and are often part of Aspie.
Does she have a favorite topic of conversation? A stuck-in-a-rut kind of topic?
Her favorite topic is usually talking about other people in a negative way or hounding me to buy something. The thought of Autism/Aspie has crossed my mind but I NEVER really thought this about her as we do not have disciplinary issues at school, ccd, extra-curricular activities, playdates. She only behaves this way with us (parents, older brother). If we are not around she is a "perfect" angel. That makes me think it is a learned behavior/not one she cannot control due to her chemistry. Maybe she is just overly strong-willed? Too much idle time? Sensitive/Anxious? She plays softball, does competitive dance and now cheerleading. While she is good at all she is not a superstar? She gets along well with her teammates and has a lot of friends. She gets straight A's, her fine motor skills are excellent - her handwriting is unbelievable and has been since very young. She rode a bike at age 5, swam independently at 5-1/2. She is very good at drawing as well. She is just whiny, demanding and not nice. I am not disagreeing with you but I still am not convinced it's more than behavioral issues.
Most kids are "worse" with family. No matter what the challenge is. Even my nearly-easy child K2... saves it all up for "us".
I'm only tossing ideas out there - I can't diagnosis your kid. I'm just another parent with a different difficult child.
But I've been around the block a few times... including down lots of dead-ends.
Lots of "exploring", Know what I mean??
Technically, you can't be Aspie without some form of motor skills disability. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) - different story (Autism Spectrum Disorder) - but most Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids hit somebody's radar.
Lets explore another road, then?
Can you tell us more about her early years?
Who cared for her, did she bounce around a lot, did you move much?
How close was her bond with you?
I'm only tossing ideas out there - I can't diagnosis your kid. I'm just another parent with a different difficult child.
But I've been around the block a few times... including down lots of dead-ends.
Lots of "exploring", Know what I mean??
Technically, you can't be Aspie without some form of motor skills disability. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) - different story (Autism Spectrum Disorder) - but most Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids hit somebody's radar.
Lets explore another road, then?
Can you tell us more about her early years?
Who cared for her, did she bounce around a lot, did you move much?
How close was her bond with you?
The first 5 years were spend with me and only me. husband worked out of town for first 5 years and also on weekends. No one else was around to help/give me a break so it was very stressful and tiresome on me. All I can say is that we spent entirely too much time alone - it is/was very difficult. I can say the issues started around 3. We moved when she was 5 and had no problems with that. She was a very busy toddler getting into everything. Slept very well though. Very demanding though. Needed her sleep/routine - which I kept. She still bounces around. Cannot even sit still at the dinner table - hello she's 10. LOL Very bright but notice she seems a bit immature compared to other girls her age. Acts like nothing hurts her feelings and doesn't seem to worry about our's. Does obsess a bit about things.
I started to become depressed and was having difficult handling her by myself all of the time without getting a needed break occasionally. It's hard to keep a 3 year old occupied for 60+ hours a week. Well it was for me anyways. We moved 2 years later to a younger neighborhood thinking it would help the situation. Well - here we are! LOL I guess NOT!!!!!! The kids in my neighborhood are not outside kids LOL or are busy with activities/grandparents, etc.
It doesn't matter which came first.
One of the things us parents with challenging kids have to do, is look after ourselves.
Depression can be "organic" or it can be brought on by life's experiences - or some combination.
There is nothing to be lost by seeking help for it.
There is nothing to be lost by seeking other ways of looking after yourself.
You need some way of reaching a social circle of some sort, some way of "getting out".
One of the things us parents with challenging kids have to do, is look after ourselves.
Depression can be "organic" or it can be brought on by life's experiences - or some combination.
There is nothing to be lost by seeking help for it.
There is nothing to be lost by seeking other ways of looking after yourself.
You need some way of reaching a social circle of some sort, some way of "getting out".
You are right and I know I need to get out and socialize more. It's been really difficult for me to find a really good friend who is there for me (husband is detached emotionally) - seems like everyone is caught up with their own friends, extended families, etc. and doesn't really have the room for more. Also I've had a few long-term friends (30 years) pretty much dump and I don't really know why which does not help! I need to find someone who is in the same boat. I also see a therapist when I can - summer I cannot get there unfortunately so it is even more difficult.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I joined several activities after I had a bad experience at my job and decided not to work anymore. It's REALLY kicked up my social life. I'm a lot happier when I'm with other people. medications help my depression. Are you against medications?
I agree that your daughter sounds very spectrumish. She sounds as if she is differently wired. ODD would pertain to every single child here. It is in my opinion an unhelpful, throw together diagnosis. for when th e diagnostician doesn't really know what is going on or doesn't have t he knowledge of testing for disorders. Many of us don't put much faith in it. ODD behavior happens most often because another, bigger diagnosis. is going on causing the disobedience. It is not willful misbehavior and these kids need to be diagnosed and we as parents need to learn to parent much differently than our peers. Even strict discipline and consistency doesn't usually make our children like other children. Maybe it helps, but it doesn't cure the problem. Early interventions are really important and you really should take her for a complete battery of tests in all area of function.
Keep us posted
I agree that your daughter sounds very spectrumish. She sounds as if she is differently wired. ODD would pertain to every single child here. It is in my opinion an unhelpful, throw together diagnosis. for when th e diagnostician doesn't really know what is going on or doesn't have t he knowledge of testing for disorders. Many of us don't put much faith in it. ODD behavior happens most often because another, bigger diagnosis. is going on causing the disobedience. It is not willful misbehavior and these kids need to be diagnosed and we as parents need to learn to parent much differently than our peers. Even strict discipline and consistency doesn't usually make our children like other children. Maybe it helps, but it doesn't cure the problem. Early interventions are really important and you really should take her for a complete battery of tests in all area of function.
Keep us posted
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