Hour in the bathroom with-a blanket, pillows, magazine and cell ph, therapist on speed dial

[TerryJ2]

Thank you. And yes, we cannot let a 15-yr-old off the hook because of their disability. I think one of the reasons we are all here is to learn to create productive, capable adults. Unfortunately at this point, my son is capable but not productive.

Yes, they can learn by routine and discipline. It's simply a matter of knowing what the rules are and molding behavior. But it doesn't work as well when, say, you're a single mom, or your husband is a workaholic, or mom gets migraines and goes to bed ... it doesn't take long for kids to make up their own rules, which leads to out-of-control behaviors.
Right now, my difficult child thinks I am the most strict, rigid, CONTROLLING mom in the universe.
He hates it when I check him in his room at night. He hates it when I text him to ask where he is. Something that all teens would hate. But with-a difficult child, it's magnified 100X.

Yesterday was picture day for baseball. difficult child fought it every step of the way. But he knows he's living on borrowed time (yes, KLMNO, we do have a plan, it's not just a threat). But difficult child went. He griped and complained, but he went. The coaches had the kids take turns in the batting cage while they waited their turn for pictures. Great idea! I stood behind the photographer and smiled my biggest smile, and while difficult child's mirror neurons are not the most finely honed, he can still react, and I got to see his dimples and a tiny little smile.
The minute they finished, he started in with-the requests and demands: "Can I get a taco?" "No." "Mashed potatoes from KFC?" "No."
"WTH! What's wrong with-you?"
"I just went to the grocery store. You had a sandwich and half a box of chocolate and a Coke and some apple juice. You can have a can of soup for dinner."
"WTH? WHY?"
Pause.
"Are you going out with-Dad tonight? Can you bring me back some teriyaki chicken?"
"No. That's a treat. I have dinner for you at home."
"WHY?"

He gave up for a few min and then asked what the big deal was about having to eat soup. And then, "So, what kind of soup is it?"
(Finally caving at that point, lol.)
"I'm not going to tell you because you'll hate it no matter what I bought."
"WTH!!! What is wrong with you???"

I finally told him, chicken with-wild rice, and split pea soup.

"I'm NOT going to eat it!"

At home, he immediately went to his room to have a private phone conversation and/or text with-his girlfriend. 10 min later he comes downstairs, "Where's the soup?"

LOL!

I don't always have this much stamina, believe me. Sometimes I just go to bed and cry.

 

[SearchingForRainbows]

Terry,

I'm so glad difficult child's therapist laid down the law!! I totally agree that there can't be a next time!! I vividly remember each and every time I had to call the police because of difficult child 1's violent behavior. One time I got a call from the police station to let me know they had difficult child 1. When I got there, I refused to take him home. It turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made. However, unlike your difficult child, difficult child 1 dreaded the psychiatric hospital more then anything. Like your difficult child, he quickly learned how to work the system but even so, was determined not to have to go back. We didn't have to do the juvie thing but, believe me, I was more then ready if necessary.

I'm really impressed by how well you handled the therapist session. You are doing everything you can to help your difficult child, and while he doesn't see it now, I really believe, like you said, that down the road, he'll get it. There was a time when I also wondered if I would be alive to see the day and if I would even want to see it too. It took almost a year once difficult child 1 moved out before he was ready to spend time with me. When that day came, I was shocked by how happy I was, by how much I truly loved him, and yes, missed him too! It really does happen, and I hope and will pray, this happens to you. Hugs... SFR

 

[TerryJ2]

When that day came, I was shocked by how happy I was, by how much I truly loved him, and yes, missed him too! It really does happen, and I hope and will pray, this happens to you.

Notes like this are my lifeline.

 

[hearts and roses]

Well, Terry, you are one of the many heros here at CD, wow.

And I LOVE LOVE LOVE your therapist! What an awesome approach, especially for a 15 y/o young man such as your difficult child. I think he handles him very effectively and appropriately.

The last thing we need is the therapist walking on eggshells around our kids. Disorder or just typical teen behavior - if they won't listen to us, they need someone who will hold them accountable for their actions, good for all of you!

 

[lovelyboy]

Lol.....our psychiatrist always say: " he doesnt have to be perfect......we just need to get him a bit user friendly!"

 

[Giulia]

The therapist did the first step about reminding him that he mustn't have such a behavior.

What concerns me most is : how can we replace his inappropriate, even dangerous behavior, for something appropriate ?
Because my 2 cents as a difficult child is that if we don't teach him how to react appropriately, well, he will react inappropriately, and whatever the consequences are.

So, my question is : what is the plan to teach him how to appropriately react to anger and frustration ? Consequences is one thing, but without teaching him how to react (he won't learn it naturally), I worry about a next time.

 

[lovelyboy]

I bought a book today ....sorry....I bought to many books!!!!!
The book is a workbook called "I'm not bad, I'm just mad"......by Shapiro, Heller and Greenwald.....Dont know if it will help, but wants to work through it with my difficult child....Its about angermanagement for kids......

 

[TerryJ2]

he doesnt have to be perfect......we just need to get him a bit user friendly!"

Good one, Lovelyboy! lol.

I'm a bookaholic, too. Shapiro sounds familiar. I may have another book by that author.

Giulia, part of it is teaching difficult child to just live through the anger with-o using gaming as a crutch. He states that he will die or kill himself or whatever if he cannot game, because "You KNOW that's the only way I can calm down!"
Wrong. He calmed down all by himself that day. No gaming.
Now, when he's calm, I ask him what went through his head and remind him that while it was unpleasant, he did calm down with-o that Xbox. He won't remember most of it, but will remember enough that he can slowly teach himself over time.
The therapist and I (and husband) always give him an "atta boy!" when he can behave and act politely. Today he asked if he was being good and whether he could earn some time on his game. I told him since it was a Friday he could (I was surprised that he can still talk to his friends online on the Xbox, even though he's not really on Xbox live. I still don't understand the system.
One of the other things is that he has to learn to trust our judgment as parents, and that we WILL back up our promises. I not only took the TV cord, but the Xbox case and hid them in two different places. He did one chore and I gave him back the Xbox. But I had him do a lot more before he got the TV cord back.
Still, he did get it back so he shouldn't be thinking I take things and return them on a whim.

Another thing we used to do, Giuliana, was teach him not to shoulder check me, hit me, grab my arm or back me into a corner. I would have to do a face-off, which wasn't easy, because I'm claustrophobic, and he'd be right in my face. (He was this wk, too, spitting as he yelled. I hate it when that happens.) So in the middle of a fight, I have to say, "Stand back 12" or I won't listen to you."
That kind of thing. It really does teach him. Does that answer your question?

 

[Giulia]

Yes it is
Thank you for the answer.
I always ask that because the style of teaching can help a lot. If we find the right way to teach something to someone, then we avoid many, many problems.

I also think that you can help him with visual cues. I know that he is very verbal, but the visual cues sustains his verbal skills. So he will remember better what you are teaching him.
So I think that it would also help him to get visual cues : they are easier to remember than spoken sentences to him.
When you see that he will do something forbidden, like hitting, spitting, why don't you get a pictogram saying "No hitting", "No spitting" etc etc... in front of him ? I know that it looks like a 4yo strategy, but it may help.
As he understands better visual cues than spoken sentences, it will make his teaching quicker than if you rely only on spoken sentences. Only my two cents, but I believe that if you go through the most well understood channel, he will learn better and quicker.
(to me, it's the absolute contrary : spoken sentences, sounds are easier to remember than visual cues. So, we rely on spoken sentences, sounds... better than visual cues)

Also, you can propose a calming box with music (no XBox), balls to crutch, essential oils.... he can carry out and he can calm himself with it.
Why don't you propose him to create a plan to calm himself, that he can use when he feels angry ?

Only some fine tuns to what you are already doing. Take what you feel best, and leave the rest.
It will also complete what you are teaching him, and he may less likely to ask his XBox when angry.

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, he rages way too quickly for me to remember to grab a picture of someone spitting and hold it up! Besides which, he'd grab it away and rip it to shreds! He's way bigger than I am.

I do write a lot of things down. Chores, for instance. And just a little bit ago, I wrote a list of good things that he does and read them aloud to him. He thought it was strange, but I said it was a good idea because he thinks we're always on his case for the bad things. So I wanted it in writing.

He gets soooooooooo lost in cyberspace ... this a.m., he was gaming at 10:00 a.m. and was supposed to be at baseball. I did not yell. Especially when he then decided to make gluten free waffles, bacon, and juice ... he'd had 1-1/2 hrs to do that so we were an hr late. But I did not yell. Now he cannot game and I explained twice why he's off for the day and he still doesn't get it. Sigh.

 

[Giulia]

Are there any subtle signs that he will rage earlier and later ?
Like how he uses his hands, agitation, starting to cry... Even a much more subtle sign.
You know him better than I know him.
But in every person who risks to rage, there are subtle signs a parent does learn know by living with a person.

I suggested the calming box, and you make him buy this idea, in order to even prevent the rages.

I think that the most important point in all this is making him acknowledge and recognize his feelings, and teach him to ask help when he will rage.
The most important is teaching him to redirect the behavior before it escalates in a rage.
I know it is much easier said than done, but it is the key point to avoid rages/make them much less violent than they are.

If I were you, I would prepare a plan on what he can do to quiet himself. You prepare it with him, and make him buy and practice the strategy.
Instead of focusing on what he cannot do (the natural instinct, but it does not sound to work with him, as it generally does not work with a difficult child), we focus on what he can do to quiet himself.
Prepare it ahead, when he is neither agitated, nor angry.
Practice it over and over with him when he is neither angry nor agitated. The more you practice it with him, the better.
At the moment you see a subtle sign of possible rage, you redirect on what he learnt to calm himself in a positive way, like : "Come on, DS. It seem you need a break. Let go get some music like we did practice together".

I notice you focus a lot on consequences for doing something wrong. And it seems that it does not work that well.
In this case, I always say : "let shift our focus to get the same result".
You want him to avoid rages and violence. I wish the same for you.
You tried to get him consequences for it, and he does not get it.
So I suggest you that instead of teaching him by punishment, something that he does not catch nor make the link, we do teach him what he can do when he feels angry/frustrated.

My way of thinking as a difficult child is : he would do well if he could do.
So let focus on what skills we can give him to avoid a rage. A prevention instead of a cure.

It does not mean we permit rages. But instead of curing after he raged, we try to proact before he rages.

The teaching with consequences after he raged has limited results. So let focus on another mean to prevent the rages.
Let focus on which skills we can give him, and practice over and over, in order to avoid a rage.


I know it is much easier said than done. It is difficult to switch from an old patter to a new pattern.
But from what I can read from you, it looks like you need to change your pattern : teaching him skills to avoid the rages, in order to prevent them from happening.
You can tell me that it's too good to be true, but a teen with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) who rages does rages because he does not know how to do otherwise. Let teach him the otherwise, it will be much more productive.
It won't solve all the problems overnight, but it will pay much more on the long term.


Hang in there

 

[TerryJ2]

Thanks, Giulia. We have been doing that since his very first rage. If I typed, "We practiced rage control today and all was well," no one would read my notes, lol!
This is what we mostly do in therapy. Breathing, thinking, awareness, all that.
I spoke to him again today and told him what a good job he was doing and asked him to pay attention to how he was feeling. I asked him to remember what triggered him the other day. '
"I don't know."
typical teen and difficult child at the same time.
"Be aware of your feelings, emotional and physical. And in addition, today and tomorrow, pay extra attention because you are drinking a slurpee with-red dye in it."
"It's strawberry!"
"Yes, and they add dye to make it even more colorful."
"How do YOU know?"
"Because it's KFC and they aren't into health food."
"It was Taco Bell."
"It's the same company. And neither one is into health food. So pay attention to your body and your moods."

Chances are, he's blowing off that entire conversation ...

 

[helpangel]

I'm just glad he doesn't have you huddled in the bathroom again. Why do they always seem to crave the stuff they shouldn't have? When my son was little a glass of red Hawaiian punch would almost always get someone hit. Guess they all have their cryptonite Angel it's that powdered cheese like cheetto's have, youngest it's energy drinks.

 

[Giulia]

Oh, forbidden things are always the most desirable, even for easy child !!
When you have a strict diet to follow with plenty of forbidden food, you always crave on the forbidden food. Even if you know they are forbidden for your health.
Same for typical teen and difficult child.

Terry, good you practice awareness of emotions and such.
How do and how did you teach him about recognizing emotions ?
Which system did you try to teach him about recognizing emotions and feelings ?

 

[TerryJ2]

We took our cues from the therapist. We'd listen to him ask difficult child questions and them move the conversation in a certain direction.
One thing I did was teach difficult child not to say he hates me. I had him say he's mad at me. I told him that everybody gets mad at other family members sometimes and that doesn't mean you don't love them. It just means you're mad.
He's regressing a bit now, which I attribute to hormones and typical teen.
I did not buy a "kit" or subscribe to a "System" such as those I've seen on the Internet, if that's what you mean.

Another thing I did and still do is show difficult child news articles about people who are arrested for road rage or something, and then talk about what may have led them to it. Some very famous criminal, can't recall now, maybe the guy who shot the kids in Norway--was an example. "What is that guy's problem?" I asked.
"He's got anger management issues."
LOL! That's the understatement of the year!
Anyway, that all helps difficult child see things from another perspective, a bit tangential to Theory of Mind. Our therapist has always talked to difficult child about Theory of Mind because he still has problems with-it and thinks that only he can know what he is thinking and no one else can ever know what anyone else is thinking. We talk about facial expressions, hand movements, all of that. And I try to find real life examples as much as possible.
He hates Social Stories. I bought a cpl books and he refused to listen or participate. So I use the newspaper.

 

[susiestar]

I flat out adore your therapist. Wiz was bigger than I was from about age 12 and much stronger from about age 9. NO ONE ever flat out told him that this had to stop except family and cops and the first psychiatric hospital. Most people at the psychiatric hospital wouldn't say it and wanted to focus on 'feelings' but one of the supervising nurses and the therapist and a couple of the male interns just flat out said, "you won't be able to live with your family if you don't stop hurting people."

After the psychiatric hospital, NO ONE would say anything close to that. They all wanted to focus on why he got angry and what the signs were so that the rest of us could 'destress' his environment so he would not 'need' to rage. I had 2 younger children at home and I was sickened by the attitude that the rest of us should do anything Wiz wanted so he would not rage. HOW would that help him live in the real world? He is perfectly capable of holding a job, of going to college, of having a career. he is incredibly intelligent. But until he got it through his head that he was NOT the only important person and that everyone did NOT have to do what he wanted to just keep him calm, then his chances of a life out of prison or a grave were nil.

I wish more people in the therapist/psychiatrist and related fields had the realistic view that your therapist has. Because he is right, when someone your difficult child's size and weight and age has a tantrum or rage, the most RATIONAL consequence is calling the police and going to juvie. If that rage was expressed at ANYONE but the family that has been conditioned to think they cannot do much about this, 911 would be called about 1 second after the first threat was made. Sadly, we the family are taught that we 'cannot' call the cops by cops that can't/won't enforce the laws on our kids because it is a 'family problem' and even more by psychiatrists and tdocs who keep telling us it is our fault or our other kids' fault and that our difficult children need more medications and more therapy and not punishment. So at age 18, they are totally in the mindset that NO ONE can stop them or give them any punishment and then in the real world they end up in huge trouble eventually.

Your therapist is great, in my opinion and I like that he was realistic and up front with difficult child about the natural and logical consequences of his actions.

 

[Giulia]

I did not buy a "kit" or subscribe to a "System" such as those I've seen on the Internet, if that's what you mean.

I didn't mean that.
You don't even need to buy them : you can have them home made.

What I mean is that words to express feelings can be very abstract for a person with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
So you have to find a way on how can we get them more concrete, in order to make him grasp the concepts.

As he love electronic stuff, you can use this obsessive interest as a support to teach him emotions and feelings.
For example, you can use smileys available over the net. Smileys are used a lot over the net, and it can be a very good tool to start on how can we recognize emotions.
You can also use photos in the magazines etc etc...
The more concrete, the best. It does not mean you need to buy or spend a cent on it. A computer with Internet and a printer, laminate, and here we go !!
If you want, I prepare you a sample of it....

Also, you can make an emotion scale, from 1 to 10. 1 means a little and 10 the strongest you've ever imagine.
You need some craft, but you don't need to buy it.

Another thing I did and still do is show difficult child news articles about people who are arrested for road rage or something, and then talk about what may have led them to it. Some very famous criminal, can't recall now, maybe the guy who shot the kids in Norway--was an example. "What is that guy's problem?" I asked.
"He's got anger management issues."
LOL! That's the understatement of the year!
Anyway, that all helps difficult child see things from another perspective, a bit tangential to Theory of Mind. Our therapist has always talked to difficult child about Theory of Mind because he still has problems with-it and thinks that only he can know what he is thinking and no one else can ever know what anyone else is thinking. We talk about facial expressions, hand movements, all of that. And I try to find real life examples as much as possible.
He hates Social Stories. I bought a cpl books and he refused to listen or participate. So I use the newspaper.

Good, but it is still a bit abstract for him.

Don't be afraid of using more visually concrete systems, as I explained above. Your teaching seems to be quite abstract for him to grasp.

Also, you may not need to buy social stories. You can write them, and create them right for your son.