How bad can bi-polar get? Any experience here?

Tanya M

Living with an attitude of gratitude
Staff member
I've always said there is no roller coaster on this planet that can compare to the one our Difficult Child put us on.

The one time I unblocked him and answered I got an earful about how everything is my fault etc..
Typical, our Difficult Child never take any responsibility for their own actions that have messed up their lives.
He's an adult and can change the course of his life any time he chooses to do so. His choice, His life.

There are some things happening that I'm concerned about. I don't know what will happen to him as for as the court system. Maybe it will be a good thing that he has to answer to someone for his actions.
It will absolutely be a good thing that he has to answer for his actions. Of course he will probably still blame you or his ex for whatever. Every time my son went to jail it was never his fault, he always placed the blame on someone else.

I still go back and forth because if he has a Borderline Personality Disorder (Borderline (BPD)) like he says the Dr told him he has, I don't know if I will ever be safe in my home.
Even if he does have Borderline (BPD) it is no excuse for him to behave the way he is. Many high functioning people have some type of mental disorder and they manage very well with medication and therapy. Again, it all comes down to choice.
I'm glad you have decided to wait on moving until you can be more objective. In the meantime do whatever you have to in order to protect yourself and your home. Install deadbolts, get a security system, maybe even a camera. You can contact your local police and they will come to your home and point out security risks.
My son used to make a lot threats but in the end that's all they were. He has a violent temper so it used to really scare me then I started seeing that his temper was one thing and his threats were empty.

I am deffinatley gaining strength and clarity each day thanks to this haven. /QUOTE]
I'm so glad you are doing better and gaining strength and clairty.

Hang in there, you are doing great!!!
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
This is an incredible group of caring people!

We are, Iwantpeace. I am glad you are here with us now, too. The reason I quoted your sentence regarding the caring natures of those who find themselves here on this site is because a big part of the battle of knowing how to respond to our troubled kids is understanding that what is happening to them is not happening because of something ~ or anything ~ we did or did not do as parents. Once we have that piece (and it took me such a long time to claim that status of "parent with a troubled child" as opposed to "bad parent") then we can be calmer and more centered in our responses to the really crummy, hurtful things that are happening.

We all are walking such hard paths.

Darn those kids!

:O)

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Love this Cedar. So much truth in it.

For those who have not yet seen Albatross' comment on blackgnat's thread, I will repost it on this one. Albatross named the core of the thing that is happening to all of us, and to our kids.

"And yes, it goes against what we are "supposed" to do. But we live in the rabbit hole now. We do what we have to do, to keep our boundaries intact."

That is the thing that is wrong, that is the situation every parent here finds themselves in. Some unimaginable something changed or happened and we are in places where our abilities to think our ways through our lives ~ all that stuff, everything we know or can learn ~ none of that is working, anymore. Like Alice, everywhere we look, nothing makes sense. And then, the Red Queen appears.

We are all such strong people, such good people. Here we all are in the rabbit hole and though we are scared and strung out we reach out to hold the others up, to bring strength and courage and a way to survive this to the others.

That is an amazing thing.

That doesn't happen on an internet site.

Chances are very high that this is also how we parented our children, how we interacted with our families of origin, how we lived and who we have been, our whole lives.

It is the situation we find ourselves in that is bad. Not us. Not our addicted or otherwise messed up kids.

I felt guilty because I am the mom and my family had somehow fallen apart and I have never not been able to put my attention onto a thing and set it to rights in my life. Over time, that guilt takes on the flavor of something criminal to us. We can't figure out what to hay is going on.

We accuse ourselves. These things began happening to us when our kids were still adolescents and we were still very much their mothers, when we were still very much responsible, as a mother or father should be.

That is where this started.

There is not something wrong with us because we could not stop being their mothers.

That's a normal thing.

What is not a normal is having to redefine our situations relative to our kids. Normal moms never have to "do" that. It happens naturally as the kids gain independence.

Ours do not gain independence. There is real risk, real harm, the real possibility of something so bad happening to them that none of us will ever come back from it if we turn away, if we stop helping.

That is a true thing.

That is why we need to pay close attention to those moms and dads who have been through detaching and detachment parenting. At the places we find ourselves now, years into enabling and without any clarity on how or why this is happening, detaching is the only way out.

There is clarity.

Whether we believe in it or not (and I didn't), there is testament to the chance that it works. Some kids picked up when their parents practiced detachment parenting. That was enough evidence for me, so I did it, too. Only I didn't have my own proof, yet. So I needed everyone here, like we all do, to help me stand saying no in a thousand unimaginable ways...and to stand the consequences.

And for me, and for all of us, those consequences are really bad, hard, unbelievable things.

But then, our situations are unbelievable, too.

Maybe that is why we keep seeing our babies in our mind's eyes, and cannot put those pieces about who our children have become ~ we cannot put that together in a rational way.

We (parents like me, people who have met every other life challenge pretty well), we address what is objectively (in the sense of objective reality) wrong. I think that is the dynamic ~ at least part of the dynamic ~ behind the enabling mindset. I mean I think that if we can nail that piece down, we can recognize enabling in a way we cannot see it while we are still trying to find that place, that criminal-feeling place, we went wrong.

For me, that was true. Helping wasn't working but I kept doing it.

I could not stop taking the blame for where my kids were in their lives. I could only see myself as some person who could not even identify the wounds I must have unwittingly dealt my own children. (That is how it felt ~ like I was stupid and desperately blind and frantically searching to find the thing that would put all this right again.)

So when I read Iwantpeace's comment, and really stopped for a minute to think about all of us here on the site and what we do ~ think how vulnerable we are to one another ~ I wanted Iwantpeace not to go through that kind of self-accusation.

I don't want any of us to go through it.

We are good, good people. We are in such hurtful places in our lives. It is crucial that we see clearly but we don't know where to look and, until we can let go of our guilt, we refuse to hold our children responsible for the actions they take.

We have nothing to feel guilty about because guilt will not help us and it will not help our children. So feeling guilty is a destructive thing that can sap our energy. Therefore, guilt is useless to us.

Out it goes.

That is the thing I refused when I chose to survive this. Everything that is not helpful is a sham, a prop, a thing without value. Guilt or empathy, even our thinking ~ our belief in our abilities to find the place we went wrong and chart a new course ~ none of that is going to change what is happening.

Out it goes.

A chance, based on what we learn here from one another that detachment can be a way to do this thing?

There we all have decided to be.

We are amazing, every one of us.

So, I thought that was a valuable piece of how to do this, for all of us.

No guilt. Useless thing, here where we are, in the rabbit hole.

For ourselves and for the kids' sakes too, that is what has to happen ~ we all have to jettison useless things, things that are not going to be valid tools in charting new courses, in facing and addressing what is happening to all of us.

And we cannot do that, and neither can our kids, when there is guilt or blame. It is what it is. The kids have to make different choices. The only way they can do that, the only way they can find solid ground, is to chart a new course. To do that, they have to be the captain of their ships. If they run them aground, they have to learn from what's happened and change course. They are not passengers on some luxury liner where someone else has the lifeboats unless we put them there.

Okay, so I am mixing my metaphors, here. Always a sure sign that Cedar should end this particular post.

:O)

We are good people.

Living in the rabbit hole.

And that is okay; that is just what is true.

Cedar
 
Cedar,
That was awesome!! One of the first things I do now when I get home from work is get on this site. The time and thought you put in to writing that is appreciated. So many of you have a wonderful ability to express what many of us newbies need to know. I am happy to learn from you and the other trail blazers on this site who have walked this way before me.
 

JulieAnn

Member
Cedar,
That was awesome!! One of the first things I do now when I get home from work is get on this site. The time and thought you put in to writing that is appreciated. So many of you have a wonderful ability to express what many of us newbies need to know. I am happy to learn from you and the other trail blazers on this site who have walked this way before me.

Oh my gosh, 100% agree! I am so lucky right now. The writing here is amazing. The knowledge and tools are invaluable. I don't think I could have gotten through the week without it.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Maybe that is why we keep seeing our babies in our mind's eyes, and cannot put those pieces about who our children have become ~ we cannot put that together in a rational way.
When your adult child hurts you, purposely....That is what I am considering here.

Not the other kinds, that can if we try hard enough, be excused away. Not those we have lived through.

Like the myriad versions of their not thinking or caring about the consequences to you of X and Y and Z.

You know how they go: You value only as long as you are fulfilling his needs. And he sets the standard: 100 percent. One hundred percent of my needs and wants....anything less, YOU are failing me. YOU are abusing me.

Or the other variant. Saying or doing mean things, that can be dismissed by one motivated to do so, as thoughtless, spontaneous, reactive or in the moment acts, of one angered; or defensive; or seeking cover; or advantage.

Those one lets pass. Because they can be called something other than the purposeful and premeditated deliberate hurting of you.

Of course I need not speak of the harm we suffer, our vulnerability to their vulnerability. Decisions made poorly or decisions made consciously seeking risk.

I need not speak of the mountains of mother corpses, dead from hurts that have been excused, and excused, and again, excused.

Here I speak of the harm done to me, deliberately intended, purposely, surgically sought, having been studied by my child...to injure me.

That is the rabbit hole I find myself in. Where the only escape is chewing off my arm...or leg...in order to escape, the reality I find myself in.

Cedar speaks of respite, of resting, and digesting, not responding. Sitting with feelings, until the truth of them, is revealed.

What comes forth from me is a scream. Just a scream.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
What comes forth from me is a scream. Just a scream.

That is okay, Copa.

Now you know where you are. You are the one, screaming. You are out of the FOG.

One of the ladies here when I first began envisioned her experience with her child as a piece of art, a painting, entitled, "The Scream". That is how she knew where she was. That is where she encapsulated the trauma, so she could go on from that place, from those things that she knew now, and made a life.

We are right here, Copa.

Right here.

Cedar
 
I am in the fog. I am okay at work some how. I have a job where I encourage others. I hear myself sometimes thinking, "that sounds good, I need to take my own advice". Then the moment I'm alone in the car- on my way home, the fog comes, along with despair, tears, fear, hopelessness, anger. I have been getting moments of fleeting peace when I do all I know to do and use the tools I have in my box. I am in the beginning stage with all this. I dont know where this ship is going with my son. I am in mourning for all that I've lost, I'm in mourning for what my son has lost, and I'm in mourning for my grandchild and what he has lost. I think that might be the most painful of all is the thought of my grandchild. That brings out loud screams at time because it's so unbearable. I find myself feeling a little jealous of those of you on this site who have that significant other, I wonder if it helps to not be alone on this scary ship. I miss what use to be my family. I am grateful to have this place to speak so honestly.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I find myself feeling a little jealous of those of you on this site who have that significant other, I wonder if it helps to not be alone on this scary ship. I miss what use to be my family. I am grateful to have this place to speak so honestly.

Yes, it does help. It makes every difference in the world. As we go through it though, so many of us lose our marriages. There are two of you then, trying to see yourselves and each other and what to do about your child.

And that can tear us apart.

Here is a story. So, whatever was going on, D H and I were in the thick of it for a long time. And oh man, I hated my D H. One night, I woke up and was thinking about how much I detested everything about him. I turned over, so I could look at him while he was asleep and think about how much I didn't even want one thing to do with him, or with our kids or my marriage or my life at that point.

And, awake in the night too, my D H was looking right back at me, with that same expression on his face.

Both of us turned over and pretended to go to sleep.

We are married now for 42 years, together 43.

***

We are so grateful you are here with us too, I wantpeace. We have been where you are. The sole comfort in knowing the things we know now about how life can turn out is helping, or consoling, or just plain being present, when one of us is still so hurt and puzzled by what is happening to her, and to her child.

I am very glad you found the site, that you found us.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I find myself feeling a little jealous of those of you on this site who have that significant other, I wonder if it helps to not be alone on this scary ship.
Iwantpeace, sometimes I fear he will leave me. After all, who would voluntarily stay through this, with a mate sometimes in bed all day, 3 or 4 days on end in my nightgown. And lately, not sleeping until 4 or 6 am in the morning.

He wanted to leave once, that I know about, after my Mother died. Still, I am not sure why. Perhaps it was the interminable wailing, through the night, night after night, while I drank, to permit the wail to come forth.

I fear facing this alone. Have I been compromising, staying with him because of this fear of dealing with this alone? I don't know.

I was an extremely independent woman, alone almost all of my life until M. But sometimes, I fear that my relationship with M is too much dependency. He fears the same, about himself.

The reality is closer, I think, that I fear that I will leave him.

I wonder who I would be without him. Free. And sometimes feel that without him I would be stronger and more complete, not less.

I believe my relationship with my son would be easier, and I have guilt that the presence of M, exacerbated my son's problems and his rage towards me. I gave space to M that had been my son's. His alone.

The truth this moment is this: I am a better Mother with M than without him.

My son is not his, by birth or by nurture and M is committed to us both.

For that I am grateful and I do not take it for granted.

Iwantpeace, there is nothing, no condition that makes this easier, for any of us. No person, no thing. Nothing at all takes away the pain and fear of this, for me.

No woman here on this site feels less despair and dread because she has somebody.

The difference is she is suffering together with someone, just as we do together, here.

Together none of us is alone. No matter what happens. Even if M leaves or dies.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
The reality is closer, I think, that I fear that I will leave him.

I wonder who I would be without him. Free. And sometimes feel that without him I would be stronger and more complete, not less.

New challenge ~ something outside the relationship with our mates ~ has put those feelings into perspective for me many times. In the end, there was the comfort of my
D H. But he did that, not me. He insisted on those Manhattans, on my presence and undivided attention. Every single night, for heaven's sake!!!! .roar. The last thing I wanted to do was be anywhere near my D H. Especially not at home without anyone worthwhile to talk to, since both our kids were gone who even knows where. But there was laughter together, once it was just he and I. And D H is such a beautiful man. Somehow, going through it all, I stopped seeing him as a man, at all. He was my protector; my knight in shining armor come so real and true and right. But when our family fell apart, he did not protect us from that.

So I hated him a little bit.

And he hated me too.

We were sitting in the destruction of everything we'd lived our lives for looking right into one another's eyes and trying not to believe what felt true: Your fault.

You did this.

But over the time that would pass, we both would learn (D H way, way before me) that the fault lay in an altogether different direction, one neither of us was willing to see.

But all those things that look so well adjusted on a post ~ the ballet classes or jobs or degree ~ those are the things I did away from my marriage in order to confront myself instead of what I was feeling about my D H, and about my whole life. (My D H, who can just look so unbelievably male after a Manhattan or two with Dean whisper-crooning the prettiest things, just for us.)

What was a girl to do?

Well, take a degree or something, that's what.

If we'd had another child? I would hold a freaking doctorate today.

:O)

Cedar
 
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HMBgal

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be nice if we could give them a big dose of "Grow up!" upside their heads? But of course, we can't, and it wouldn't help. We can't control anyone's behavior but our own, and a lesson that I had to learn when dealing with an abusive foster mother: just because she calls me a vacuum cleaner doesn't mean I suck dirt. It's so hard when we know that in our heads, but our hearts~our bruised, battered, and hurting hearts~ are slow to get the message. Keep writing. You express yourself so well that you are helping others in their journeys. We all have have gifts to share (including those that are battering our hearts).
 
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