Thank you leafy, I agree with you and am thinking that the best thing to do is have the store owner press charges. My husband on the other hand is just getting on board with all this and he is probably in protection mode still. You are right and I will let him now that nothing changes, if nothing changes...good advice!
How do parents deal with the pain?
- Thread starter Tia
- Start date
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Your daughter is playing hardball with you. Using all the protections of the law available to her to keep you out of treatment decisions, withholding medical records, drug testing, etc.
I would not think of helping her escape the consequences of her actions. The only way that I might even think about helping her would be if she agreed in a legally binding way to long term treatment/intervention including regular drug testing. But I do not know how this could be effected.
If your husband wants to help her I would hold the above as my bottom line.
COPA
I would not think of helping her escape the consequences of her actions. The only way that I might even think about helping her would be if she agreed in a legally binding way to long term treatment/intervention including regular drug testing. But I do not know how this could be effected.
If your husband wants to help her I would hold the above as my bottom line.
COPA
toughlovin
Well-Known Member
Hi Tia,
I wrote a response yesterday and I don't know what happened to it. Believe me I understand the pain and the worry. So to answer your question...
Let yourself feel it for moments and then do what you can to distract yourself.
I had to come to a consious decision to not let my son ruin my life, no matter what he did to ruin his own life.
Find some good support of other parents who have been through this. This site is one good source of support. Another that has helped me has been a great alanon group for parents.
Find some things that interest you and do them, distraction is a good and healthy coping skill and will give you other things to take up space in your head.
I wrote a response yesterday and I don't know what happened to it. Believe me I understand the pain and the worry. So to answer your question...
Let yourself feel it for moments and then do what you can to distract yourself.
I had to come to a consious decision to not let my son ruin my life, no matter what he did to ruin his own life.
Find some good support of other parents who have been through this. This site is one good source of support. Another that has helped me has been a great alanon group for parents.
Find some things that interest you and do them, distraction is a good and healthy coping skill and will give you other things to take up space in your head.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
I hope your daughter gets better. I feel very badly for you. Also...please be aware that most drug using kids tell us they are only smoking pot, as it is becoming more acceptable. If they are sick enough to end up in a hospital, most likely their drug of choice is more than just pot.
I hope I'm wrong.
Hugs and more hugs.
Thank you all for your support. My husband and I have had many discussions regarding enabling because of what I have read. Although we have not been able to agree on everything we are talking things through trying to make the right decisions to help ourselves.
Our 17 year old Difficult Child actually called twice on Sunday night from the hospital to talk, the final conversation was ended because it was quiet time and the phone was no longer available for patients. She called back every few minutes on Monday morning asking when we were coming. Her sister had also come home from university because Difficult Child had called her crying and older sister wanted to support Difficult Child as well as us. During these brief phone calls she kept asking where we were and when we would get to the hospital, called me a liar at one point because I had told her we were on our way, but hadn't arrived at the hospital because we were running errands. Husband and I decided not to run over to the hospital immediately just because she wanted us to, we were going to do what we needed to do on our time! Before leaving the house I spoke to the social worker at the hospital for some advice and was able to vent as well. When we arrived at the hospital she did not want to see dad, but saw sister and I. When the psychiatrist arrived to evaluate her(day 7) he included the whole family. The blame game started she did not take responsibility for anything and blamed everything on us, no surprise to us because of all the reading we've done. The doctor had to leave for a while to deal with another patient and she got very angry saying that she knew stuff about her dad that would make me divorce him. She made him leave the room and then said she had something on me too??? We have no idea what she was talking about!! Older sister thought behaviour was not acceptable and tried to discuss with her which caused her turn on sister. When the doctor came back he spoke to Difficult Child for a few minutes alone and then asked us to return. Told us she was not in danger to herself or others and decided to release her...no diagnosis. When he saw my face drop he asked the girls to leave and spoke to dad and I. They were sitting right outside the door and probably heard the brief discussion. She is a teenager, using to much pot she should cut back...and you all need to give and take?! WHAT JUST HAPPENED??? Needless to say, we all left together, older sister went back to university. Husband and I tried to keep things calm. She looked all over the house for her phone as soon as she arrived at the house and could not find it. Dad let her use his phone, she will not get my phone I have decided. She contacted her friends and is back to behaviour. She tried to sneak out at 2:30 a.m. but the dog started barking when she unlocked the door and woke me. When I went downstairs she said she didn't know what was going on. No longer in pj's and coat and boots were out in the open. I asked her if she had gone out, she replied NO. Door was unlocked, which dad and I know it was. Went back to bed and heard her leave a few minutes later. It is 4:30 a.m. now and she is still out. She made some bad contacts, dad checked history on the phone. He is now resting on the couch waiting for her return. I am wide awake with a pounding headache in my room.
There is just so much going on I cant write about everything!! Our neighbours wrestled down 3 teen in the community earlier on trying to break into vehicles (no connection to our Difficult Child) police were in our community and know at least I don't have to explain to her why we are having security system installed this week, but her behaviour is the main reason. I am full of anxiety and fearful of being in my home and fearful of leaving her alone not knowing who she'll bring in sneak in! Told my husband when she arrives if anyone is with her they are not welcome in our home and if she chooses to go that is her choice. I cannot live like this!
I am off work this week because of my stress, her school is out for exams and I cant imagine being able to function at work.
Feeling like I want to run away from here...sell the houses...I don't know what to feel.
Our 17 year old Difficult Child actually called twice on Sunday night from the hospital to talk, the final conversation was ended because it was quiet time and the phone was no longer available for patients. She called back every few minutes on Monday morning asking when we were coming. Her sister had also come home from university because Difficult Child had called her crying and older sister wanted to support Difficult Child as well as us. During these brief phone calls she kept asking where we were and when we would get to the hospital, called me a liar at one point because I had told her we were on our way, but hadn't arrived at the hospital because we were running errands. Husband and I decided not to run over to the hospital immediately just because she wanted us to, we were going to do what we needed to do on our time! Before leaving the house I spoke to the social worker at the hospital for some advice and was able to vent as well. When we arrived at the hospital she did not want to see dad, but saw sister and I. When the psychiatrist arrived to evaluate her(day 7) he included the whole family. The blame game started she did not take responsibility for anything and blamed everything on us, no surprise to us because of all the reading we've done. The doctor had to leave for a while to deal with another patient and she got very angry saying that she knew stuff about her dad that would make me divorce him. She made him leave the room and then said she had something on me too??? We have no idea what she was talking about!! Older sister thought behaviour was not acceptable and tried to discuss with her which caused her turn on sister. When the doctor came back he spoke to Difficult Child for a few minutes alone and then asked us to return. Told us she was not in danger to herself or others and decided to release her...no diagnosis. When he saw my face drop he asked the girls to leave and spoke to dad and I. They were sitting right outside the door and probably heard the brief discussion. She is a teenager, using to much pot she should cut back...and you all need to give and take?! WHAT JUST HAPPENED??? Needless to say, we all left together, older sister went back to university. Husband and I tried to keep things calm. She looked all over the house for her phone as soon as she arrived at the house and could not find it. Dad let her use his phone, she will not get my phone I have decided. She contacted her friends and is back to behaviour. She tried to sneak out at 2:30 a.m. but the dog started barking when she unlocked the door and woke me. When I went downstairs she said she didn't know what was going on. No longer in pj's and coat and boots were out in the open. I asked her if she had gone out, she replied NO. Door was unlocked, which dad and I know it was. Went back to bed and heard her leave a few minutes later. It is 4:30 a.m. now and she is still out. She made some bad contacts, dad checked history on the phone. He is now resting on the couch waiting for her return. I am wide awake with a pounding headache in my room.
There is just so much going on I cant write about everything!! Our neighbours wrestled down 3 teen in the community earlier on trying to break into vehicles (no connection to our Difficult Child) police were in our community and know at least I don't have to explain to her why we are having security system installed this week, but her behaviour is the main reason. I am full of anxiety and fearful of being in my home and fearful of leaving her alone not knowing who she'll bring in sneak in! Told my husband when she arrives if anyone is with her they are not welcome in our home and if she chooses to go that is her choice. I cannot live like this!
I am off work this week because of my stress, her school is out for exams and I cant imagine being able to function at work.
Feeling like I want to run away from here...sell the houses...I don't know what to feel.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Was it mandatiry that you take her back? This is bad for you and I care about YOU.
Thank you Rosie. We are trying to take it one day at a time...boy the days seem so long and never ending! We try to stop one another from looking down the road too far...it looks scary!
Yes, she was actually arrested at school last year for possession by the liaison officers and was required to take several substance abuse sessions with a counsellor. She did not take it too seriously but went because she wanted the charges dropped, which they were. Went back to using after the sessions and then stopped and got clean from September to December. She had isolated herself from school and these friends and then struggled with missing her social life she says. We have looked into many programs and she has attempted to attend some but seemed to hold back from telling them what she feels. Tells them what they want to hear I guess, not sure because it is private. The hospital is has set up another appointment for Monday with a different counsellor so hopefully she decides to go.
No I guess it was not mandatory but my husband and older daughter have just come on board in recognizing her addiction and are not where I am on this journey. My husband told me this morning that we can't turn our back on our little girl. Which just tears me apart...they need time to catch up...I don't know...feeling lost and torn in the middle. Sometimes I feel like I can be so tough and stand my ground and other times I feel so sad and just want to wrap my arms around her and protect her.
Scent of Cedar *
Well-Known Member
How to survive the pain.
Actually, you are doing well right now. So many of us turn the pain onto ourselves. From what I can tell in reading your post, you haven't done that. You see the pain as a separate thing ~ which it is. Even in describing your daughter's attacks on you and on your D H, you seem not to be buying in to her reality.
That is the hardest thing: Knowing what matters.
***
How to deal with the pain.
It helps me to remember that the high from drug use is attained by creating chemical imbalance in the brain. (The high isn't in the substance the kids are taking. The high is the ability of the substance to wring the brain dry, like a sponge.) All the good chemicals are used up in the high. Our kids are not themselves when they have used drugs even once. But from casual use, their brains can compensate to a degree. With more than casual use, the brain begins trimming back chemical receptors to defend itself. It is no longer about feeling good. At this point, the person using the chemicals must use more just to feel normal.
But normal cannot happen because the chemistry of the brain has been altered.
And every single thing about how their brains work, about who they are, about what matters to and about them, changes.
An important piece of knowing how to respond to our children has to do with understanding what has happened to them.
https://teens.drugabuse.gov/drug-facts/brain-and-addiction
http://www.phoenixhouse.org/faq/what-happens-to-your-brain-when-you-take-drugs/
http://www.dirkhanson.org/neuroaddiction.html
We had responses similar to those you and your D H are receiving now from the professionals we dealt with when our daughter first began acting out. I am very sorry this is happening. We believe the professionals know how to help our children.
This is not always the case.
You are here with us, now.
This is a good, safe place.
***
Know this is not happening because of anything you or your D H did or did not do. It has nothing to do with any of the things your child will come up with to justify why she is doing what she is doing.
What you daughter is doing has a name: triangulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology)
Her intention is to split the family into enemies and allies with herself calling the shots. If you allow this to happen, it will take a very long time to re-establish trust in yourselves and in one another. If you can be aware of it now, you will be more able to defend against it.
Remember the information on the physiology of addiction posted above. It isn't about condemning our kids. It is about understanding what is happening and responding appropriately. We can come through this loving both the kids and ourselves, but it requires a kind of brutal honesty it takes time to develop.
I think that is true. For me, that was true. I just wouldn't believe it.
These are the things that happen when the kids are using brain altering chemicals. Though they will tell you ten thousand ways that what is happening is your fault, or is your D H fault, remember: There is only one reason this is happening: Drug use. There is no other reason. There is no solution other than for your child to stop using drugs. If she is already addicted, this will be very hard for her to do.
***
Drug use changes the intricately complex systems of chemical interaction in the brain. Over time, the physical structure of the brain itself will change as the brain tries desperately to come into balance.
Empathy (in my opinion) is among the first things to go, when people use drugs.
People diagnosed as sociopathic people have limited empathy, too.
***
To me, the most valuable thing you can do at this point is to realize what your child is doing and why. Drug use is the issue, here. You and your D H must try to stay allied together. Your child will (mine do) elicit support and sympathy by destroying your reputations, both to yourselves and to one another, to the other sibs, and to outsiders.
I am sorry this is so. It happened to me. It happens to most parents of addicted or drug using children. If you are prepared, you will be able to survive it.
Better.
You will be able to survive it, better.
Many of us lose our marriages.
It will be good for you and D H to take a weekend away ~ longer if you can, and to do this as often as you can.
I am married forty two years. I don't know how we managed to stay married, but we did. I think my D H is a very wise, very good man. I was a basket case. I can still be thrown into FOG panic pretty easily, though I recognize it now and try to maintain my way through it until I am able to center myself, again.
You two can come through this intact, too.
I don't know what else to tell you.
If I think of something? I will post back in.
Cedar
Okay. I thought of something.
:O)
I would not turn the daughter in. For now, when everything is still so outrageously uncertain, I would speak to the store owner and do what I could to protect the child from the consequences of her actions.
This time, I would do that. Next time, you will be strong enough not to. It has to do with being able to meet our own eyes in the mirror when the consequences come, for our children. Sometimes, here on the site, we forget how vulnerable everything about losing our children to drugs was, in the beginning.
Actually, you are doing well right now. So many of us turn the pain onto ourselves. From what I can tell in reading your post, you haven't done that. You see the pain as a separate thing ~ which it is. Even in describing your daughter's attacks on you and on your D H, you seem not to be buying in to her reality.
That is the hardest thing: Knowing what matters.
***
How to deal with the pain.
It helps me to remember that the high from drug use is attained by creating chemical imbalance in the brain. (The high isn't in the substance the kids are taking. The high is the ability of the substance to wring the brain dry, like a sponge.) All the good chemicals are used up in the high. Our kids are not themselves when they have used drugs even once. But from casual use, their brains can compensate to a degree. With more than casual use, the brain begins trimming back chemical receptors to defend itself. It is no longer about feeling good. At this point, the person using the chemicals must use more just to feel normal.
But normal cannot happen because the chemistry of the brain has been altered.
And every single thing about how their brains work, about who they are, about what matters to and about them, changes.
An important piece of knowing how to respond to our children has to do with understanding what has happened to them.
https://teens.drugabuse.gov/drug-facts/brain-and-addiction
http://www.phoenixhouse.org/faq/what-happens-to-your-brain-when-you-take-drugs/
http://www.dirkhanson.org/neuroaddiction.html
We had responses similar to those you and your D H are receiving now from the professionals we dealt with when our daughter first began acting out. I am very sorry this is happening. We believe the professionals know how to help our children.
This is not always the case.
You are here with us, now.
This is a good, safe place.
***
Know this is not happening because of anything you or your D H did or did not do. It has nothing to do with any of the things your child will come up with to justify why she is doing what she is doing.
What you daughter is doing has a name: triangulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology)
Her intention is to split the family into enemies and allies with herself calling the shots. If you allow this to happen, it will take a very long time to re-establish trust in yourselves and in one another. If you can be aware of it now, you will be more able to defend against it.
Remember the information on the physiology of addiction posted above. It isn't about condemning our kids. It is about understanding what is happening and responding appropriately. We can come through this loving both the kids and ourselves, but it requires a kind of brutal honesty it takes time to develop.
I think that is true. For me, that was true. I just wouldn't believe it.
These are the things that happen when the kids are using brain altering chemicals. Though they will tell you ten thousand ways that what is happening is your fault, or is your D H fault, remember: There is only one reason this is happening: Drug use. There is no other reason. There is no solution other than for your child to stop using drugs. If she is already addicted, this will be very hard for her to do.
***
Drug use changes the intricately complex systems of chemical interaction in the brain. Over time, the physical structure of the brain itself will change as the brain tries desperately to come into balance.
Empathy (in my opinion) is among the first things to go, when people use drugs.
People diagnosed as sociopathic people have limited empathy, too.
***
To me, the most valuable thing you can do at this point is to realize what your child is doing and why. Drug use is the issue, here. You and your D H must try to stay allied together. Your child will (mine do) elicit support and sympathy by destroying your reputations, both to yourselves and to one another, to the other sibs, and to outsiders.
I am sorry this is so. It happened to me. It happens to most parents of addicted or drug using children. If you are prepared, you will be able to survive it.
Better.
You will be able to survive it, better.
Many of us lose our marriages.
It will be good for you and D H to take a weekend away ~ longer if you can, and to do this as often as you can.
I am married forty two years. I don't know how we managed to stay married, but we did. I think my D H is a very wise, very good man. I was a basket case. I can still be thrown into FOG panic pretty easily, though I recognize it now and try to maintain my way through it until I am able to center myself, again.
You two can come through this intact, too.
I don't know what else to tell you.
If I think of something? I will post back in.
Cedar
Okay. I thought of something.
:O)
I would not turn the daughter in. For now, when everything is still so outrageously uncertain, I would speak to the store owner and do what I could to protect the child from the consequences of her actions.
This time, I would do that. Next time, you will be strong enough not to. It has to do with being able to meet our own eyes in the mirror when the consequences come, for our children. Sometimes, here on the site, we forget how vulnerable everything about losing our children to drugs was, in the beginning.
New Leaf
Well-Known Member
Tia I am so sorry. We rely on these professionals to step in and help, but they can only do so much........
I was a d c. I went off the rails at around 14. My parents sent me to a therapist at 16. I lied through my teeth. I fooled her into thinking I was clean, just smoked pot now and then. Well, I wasn't just doing pot. I was self destructing, partying, doing anything and everything I could get my hands on. I thought my parents were stupid. They didn't have a clue, I thought the therapist was stupid. They relied on what I told them......... Tia, I didn't give a hoot about my parents then. I finally woke up at 18, and spent the next 10 years apologizing, every time I saw them.
You are right to fear for the safety of your home with your daughter there. I would not give her a key. REALLY. I would put hidden cameras there. Drug addicts lie, steal and manipulate. I am sorry, my two are addicts also. They didn't care about the danger they put everyone in. They only cared about the next high.
You are right again, no one can live like this. I am glad you see it.
It is not for you to run. It is for you to stand up and face it. It seems impossible with your older girl and hubby not on board. But you have to stand up. You are the champion here. I know, it is terrible. It happened to me. I had to fight everybody's delusions, because my eyes finally opened to the truth. I started by going to a therapist, to get my head on straight. It helps Tia, they are professionals and have resources. They are not all like the hospital psychiatrist.
You are not turning your backs on your little girl, you are turning around to face exactly what she is doing. YOU are looking at it with clarity and understanding that it is unacceptable. You are NOT letting your love blind you to the fact that she is spinning down the wrong path and taking you all with her.
Even if your hubby and daughter do not see things, you do.
Stand up.
Keep posting, it helps to get it out, it is all too toxic to hold in.
Take good care of yourself. Stay strong.
Your daughter will use the division to her advantage. She will make you the bad guy.
It is called triangulation, LEARN about it, so that you can recognize it.
You are a warrior now, warriors train hard for the battle.
How do we train?
We educate ourselves.
We learn as much as we can about addiction and enabling.
This is what you can do, while you are waiting for your hubby to understand, because we all understand that it is a process and not everyone is on the same place in the journey.
One day, one step at a time.
Turn the focus on YOU and build yourself up as best you can, put on your shield and bolster your armory with knowledge and self care.
You are a warrior, and you are fighting for your right to self preserve and make your home your sanctuary.
Stay strong and take very good care of yourself.
You are not alone, we are all standing with you, by your side.
(((HUGS)))
leafy
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Well, he is seeing her as his little girl in ponytails who sat on his knee. She's not that person anymore and if he doesn't turn his back NOT ON HER, but on her behaviors, he will regret it because she will keep on putting herself and the rest of you in danger. If you are ahead of them, perhaps you should lead the way.
What does your husband think he can do for your daughter to make it better?
There is nothing he can do, EXCEPT let her go and walk her own path and learn from consequences. He can't shield her anymore. She has to take control of her life and change it and nobody, no matter how much the person loves her, can do one thing for her. She has to do it herself. The more he tries to coddle her from consequences, the more criminal behavior she will think is okay.
Hugs and hoping for a good outcome.
TerryJ2
Well-Known Member
OMG, Tia, that hospital stay and that doctor infuriate me!!!!! He should be fired. What an idiot.
Someone on this board once posted a note about their violent and out-of-control Difficult Child, and the day that a social wkr who came by the house. When the family gathered in the LR, Soc Wkr asked Difficult Child "Can you promise to follow the family rules and get along?"
"Sure" said the kid.
"See, now that isn't so hard, is it?" the Soc wkr said. And she left.
ARrrrrgghh!
Someone on this board once posted a note about their violent and out-of-control Difficult Child, and the day that a social wkr who came by the house. When the family gathered in the LR, Soc Wkr asked Difficult Child "Can you promise to follow the family rules and get along?"
"Sure" said the kid.
"See, now that isn't so hard, is it?" the Soc wkr said. And she left.
ARrrrrgghh!
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
This was a beautiful and very wise post, Cedar.
I think we forget how vulnerable we were to the extent that we still are. That certainty we seem to want to project in our posting to others is a marker of how vulnerable we still are in ourselves.
The vulnerability is both a weakness and a strength.
Each time we post the steps for others to take, we are remembering for ourselves. Lest we forget, lest we doubt. We do this because the doubt is always there. The self-doubt.
There comes a time when the self-doubt comes to have another name. Flexibility.
I am seeing this more and more clearly. Certainty seems to mask and compensate for its opposite.
I needed to believe in somebody else, at first when I came here, because I did not believe anymore in myself. In my own ability to see and respond to a situation, I had lost my faith. I am still piecing together the whys and how comes.
I decided to believe one voice here on CD. On faith. It was your voice, Cedar. I believed you because I trusted you. I needed to. Nobody else knew anything in my life that seemed to work. I trusted that you did. I trusted you because you did not know anymore than I did. But you had risked from that place. Because of your love. And infinite hope.
I relied on your ability to risk with your own children, not having anywhere else to go. I relied on your integrity and I have never stopped doing so.
It was not upopn your certainty that I relied. It was on its opposite. The courage to try something that you did not know, based upon your integrity, your belief in your children and your absolute commitment to doing and trying whatever it took. I had the courage to take that risk too.
I am affected today by another thread currently active about the death of a mother.
That is what is at stake here. It is life and death. I remain absolutely stunned that such a place exists as this. Even if only in our hearts. Imagine that. It is only virtual.
That piece of things still frightens me, that we exist for each other only virtually. I am not a techie, so I do not exactly know what it means to exist virtually. Do we dream each other? If that mother, KLMNO, who lost her son had had in her real life people who understood, as did each of you, could she have lived? Or was the trauma of her loss of such a great magnitude that there was no coming back from it?
This is the work of this virtual place. It chills me to acknowledge to myself that each of our traumas is on that very same continuum.
COPA
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
As far as the store owner pressing charges, is there a way to stay neutral neither pressing for or against it, but being available to her as a source of support, in understanding the situation she faces, and exploring options to respond to it.
That way you can honestly say what you believe and leave your options open to help her on your own terms.
COPA
