I am having a hard time with this (daughter in jail)

[bran155]

First let me extend my heartfelt gratitude to all of you for all your kindness. I truly appreciate your cyber-friendship. Your support gets me through.

DDD, wow, what a letter!!! I will be printing that and hand delivering tomorrow. I also, couldn't have said it any better. Many thanks.

I just came back from visiting her. I was losing sleep and worrying myself to death for nothing!!! She is having the time of her life in there. It is sick!!! She is completely out of her mind right now but doesn't really seem to be bothered by this whole thing too much. She was all over the place, erratic and visibly out of control. Her logic is twisted and her demeanor was utterly scattered. She fits right in though. Sad to say she is as ghetto as the rest of them. She acts as though we raised her in the middle of gang central. It's crazy. The illness is so present, so visible and controlling her as if she were attached to a remote control. The fact that she can adapt so well, so quickly is very scary. She has even asked not to be moved out of the psychiatric ward. She told them it's because she needs help controlling her anger but she told me today that it's really because she has found herself a girlfriend and wants to be with her!!!! Then she begins to tell me how they write dirty letters to each other. I stopped her and told her I didn't want to hear that. Her grandmother was with me for pete's sake!!! No boundaries whatsoever!!! I don't even want to tell you what she told my sister on the phone. Totally inappropriate. Sick to my stomach. So the visit was awful. She took no responsibility for any of her choices. Told me she has been commiting crimes, stealing and robbing people. She said that she isn't going to change for anyone and jail doesn't scare her one bit. She was cursing at me almost the entire time we were there. She finally called me one too many b***hes and I got up and walked out. To which she responded, quite loudly: "I don't give a f**k". My poor mother left in tears. Suprisingly, I did not, I was more angry than anything. Later when the dust settles is when I will fall apart. I am not so worried about her being in there as much as I am worried about her ever present illness. That is the sad part. She is still in so much denial. She is never going to get any better unless she is willing to step up and deal with her problems. That is what breaks my heart!!! I will sleep well tonight though, she seems to be fitting in just fine. The mere fact that she IS fitting in just fine is quite un-settling!!!! I feel as though I am in the Twilight Zone!!!!!!

I am glad I went to see her. I don't like the fact that she is adapting the way she is and that she is not even scared, but it will allow me to keep it together. I am not as worried about her as I was before I actually saw her.

Rewind to when we first got there. I was talking to the CO who was signing us in and mentioned that my daughter wasn't on her medication. She called the medical director to come out and meet with me. Both the CO and the medical director were very nice. The medication. dir. brought me into an office and let me speak to the psychologist on her cell phone. The psychologist was meeting with my daughter while I was on the phone with her. I gave her a brief history and the medication names and doses as well as a list of all of her dxs. My daughter will be seeing the psychiatrist this afternoon. The only problem is, by law they can't force her to take her medications. So, she no doubt will refuse to do so. In the meantime, I am not accepting her calls today. She was very disrespectful towards me during the visit, therefore I do not want to speak to her. I am feeling this strong only because I am still angry, this will all turn into emotional hell later on in the day. So looking forward to that!!!

Once again, thank you all so much for your support. I really feel at home here. I will keep you all posted.

 

[witzend]

As awful as it was, I think it is for the best that your visit turned out the way that it did. I'm not sure what the best place for your daughter is, and she isn't helping herself. All I can see for sure is that home isn't where she belongs. {{{{Big hugs}}}}

 

[klmno]

I'm glad you're feeling a little better- or at least you aren't as worried. I don't understand them not being able to make her take her medications. My son is only 13, but his court order requires him to take his medications as rx'd by his psychiatrist.

 

[busywend]

Sometimes kids just have to go through things.

How many people do you know that started down the wrong path and eventually turned it around? This could be no different. No point it making yourself sick about it. That does not relieve the worry, I know. But, it is the truth.

I am glad you got to see that she is not struggling or in pain. That helps you get through it.

HUGS!

 

[Wiped Out]

Bran,
Many others have said it better than me. I'm so sorry you are suffering and sending many prayers your way.

 

[Steely]

I read the first part of your post, but I can't really read the rest right now, because it makes me sick and sad and crazy, just like you feel. Sorry. Too much been there done that.

But please know I am praying for you, and thinking of you, and that you are not alone.

Hugs.

 

[Rotsne]

Well, you cannot blame her for lack of accountability because she is ill. Until she accepts to take medication or if she has been wrongly medicated all the time, the present medication wears out, you cannot expect anything from her.

So don't be angry or shocked. You must realize that she needs long time in a secure place where she can figure out who she wants to be.

If the system isn't better than it is, prison is the answer. But the sad reallity is that properly need longtime residential treatment in a real hospital where the focus is on her illness rather than her behavior. If they manage to cure her, her behavior issue will solve itself.

Prisons just tend to create criminals rather than teaching them the right path. She has already got a girlfriend. What are this girlfriend inside for? My knowledge to juvenile and adult prisons as a contractor delivering goods to those places is based on many conversations with staff that however hard they try, many of the inmates leaves with new tricks and extended knowledge about druguse. So the best option is to have her detained at another place.

Is there an option to have the court order her to remain in a secure hospital unit rather than prison?

 

[Marguerite]

Bran, I'm glad I read your last response. I had things I wanted to say and was concerned I might hurt you with what I had to say. Noew you have said the same things yourself (in your own way).

And DDD - thank you, you said what I would have only because it is a legal system with which I am unfamiliar, I wasn't sure whether my advice would be appropriate. Your response, and other's comments Occupational Therapist (OT) your response, tells me I was on the right track in my own mind.

So here goes -

Bran - you're tearing your heart out to no avail. Why should you feel more punished, than your daughter does? You need to get your own perspective back, I think in your own heart you are feeling what you think she is feeling - only you have now see, she isn't. I mean, if it was my easy child, my eldest darling daughter, suddenly in jail and acting inappropriately due to refusing all medications - I'd be giving you a run for your money. I bonded with that baby, I could see the world through her infant eyes within hours of her birth, I understand her so well even if I can't control her now, or (generally) even step in to help her. I am an independent person who raised a daughter who is independent and capable; perhaps TOO capable. She is planning her wedding and although she loves us we have no say whatsoever. She is now acting out her own dream. I have to step back.

OK, that doesn't compare to your torture. I'm talking about a easy child, after all. But the part of me that wants to step in and make it all work has to now step back. I am an organiser and fixer and have to recognise that so is my daughter; she learned it from me. If I tried to do ANYTHING, it would undoubtedly cause big problems.

Your daughter is not capable like this at the moment. She thinks she is. We know from past posts of yours that she likes to push your buttons - the jail girlfriend is probably pure fiction, or if not - then another female (other than you) is being used emotionally very cruelly by her and is about to get very badly hurt.

Your daughter wants to stay in jail. She says. But this isn't about what SHE wants, it's about what she NEEDS. And also what you need.

You do NOT need her back home as bad as ever, as uncontrolled as ever. You need to be strong. Like me mentally visualising how terrible I would feel if my darling easy child were in prison and how I would want to personally tear down the walls with my fingernails to get her out, you need to (as I would need to) resist this and detach (somehow! Easier said than done) because all that is happening now, all you are hurting, is YOU.

No skin off her nose, obviously.

Similarly - DON'T DROP THE CHARGES. She's been constantly accusing you of it all being your fault - you drop those charges, you justify that opinion. And it is just plain wrong. You also would be sending her the wrong message - she can do what she wants to you, trash the place, trash other people, steal, lie, cheat - and no consequences will stick.

Where will it stop? If you give way in this, PLEASE mentally visualise the best outcome - and the worst. Plan for the worst but hope for the best. And if you have any common sense left in you after all you've been through (and I do have hope that you do still have that common sense) then you will see - the worst possibilities are ones you cannot live with in your house. It will not stop, if she just comes out of jail as she now is, and comes home. How will you make sure she is medicated? How will you enforce it? How will you control her behaviour? You couldn't before, why would it be better, especially after what she would consider she has survived and overcome? She will be even more stubborn, 'tougher' and even less malleable.

I agree with you - you MUST talk to that DA somehow. But you are being fobbed off and pushed around by bureaucracy, in exactly the same way your daughter has fobbed you off and pushed you around. You are being bullied and manipulated by a system.

So you need to dig deep and find some courage and strength, not easy after the way your daughter has had you cowed and scared. You've been trained to be a doormat and now the DA's staff are wiping their shoes on you.

SO my recommendation is to try DDD's advice, but with a couple of added wrinkles. And with the over-riding clause - HAVE STRENGTH at least on the outside. Stay calm, stay cool (even if it's an act) and USE your pain, the pain you shared with us in your initial post in this thread, as the energy force to keep you going. If you use that pain it won't hurt you so much and you will be converting the energy of that pain into strength in other areas of your life as well. Every tiny success is more strength.

So go see the DA but go prepared. Have your letter already written (as per DDD's advice) and hand-deliver it. If possible, make it clear that you want to personally deliver it to the DA. Your daughter is one of the most important things in your life, so is your husband and your other son. Your remaining family MUST have your success here, do this in their name. Tell that cow of a secretary that your husband and son MUST be assured of being safe in their own home, but also as a mother your daughter is mentally ill and is not being given access to appropriate treatment in jail. If anything, she has made it clear to you that jail, far from being a deterrent, is being seen as a reward. This is a manifestation of her illness which further adds pressure to the need for her to be receiving medical treatment NOW. Why is she not being forced to take her medications? A heroin addict would be getting their methadone or naltrexone in jail under strict supervision - why on earth is an UNDER-AGE mentally ill girl not being made to take her medications? Why is she not in treatment? The victims require this in order to be able to move from victim status to survivor status.

And the next point - yes, take your book. Also take your knitting, your scarf and beanie, your nanna rug, a thermos of coffee or soup, a cushion - settle yourself down and make it clear that you have a problem of the highest priority and nothing else in your life matters as much, so everything else is on hold in your life. After all, the DA is a busy person, you know that you have to make yourself available to utilise any spare minute that comes up but of course the DA has already indicated a willingness to discuss this from the victim point of view so you are simply following along with what the DA has said and making yourself available to do just that. This has become urgent also - time is of the essence. She says she likes jail? (yeah, right) Well, she needs to be moved to where she doesn't want to be - Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or similar. Locked psychiatric ward maybe?

Ignore the alleged lesbian affair and for pete's sake, stop reacting when she says stuff! Keep in mind, she's trying to push your buttons. She always does! I am a strong believer that homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice (despite furore over certain songs about "I kissed a girl and I liked it" - PLEASE people, stop reacting because you're only giving it more attention). If your daughter is genuinely a lesbian then she has been for years despite anything you could do or could have done. If she's merely experimenting sexually/emotionally - well, she's not exactly stable right now. Her "girlfriend" (if she really exists) is set up to be another of your daughter's victims. Sorry. But since she's had a boyfriend 'outside' - either she's only experimenting, or she's lying. I'm betting it's this last one, possibly with an innocent dupe involved (poor girl).

Your mother either shouldn't have been with you on the visit, or should have been prepared for what she heard. Chances are she is stronger than you give her credit. After all, you are. Stop worrying about other people and think about yourself. You have enough on your plate to deal with, without adding other people's problems onto your own shoulders.

You can do this. But you need to take yourself in hand, because at the moment you can't take your daughter in hand.

And by the way, I have done exactly what DDD and I have proposed - I took my thermos, I took my diary, I took the letter, my scarf, my beanie, my book and knitting. And although I was quaking inside, I didn't let them see it and when I look back I feel triumph. Because although I eventually allowed myself to be 'persuaded' to leave, it was after I had been given some concessions and it was when I was ready to leave anyway, on my terms. I still hadn't seen the person I had asked to see but I had been promised consideration for our case and we got it within days.

There is only one thing I would maybe do differently - have the media ready to witness me being evicted (should that be about to happen). But maybe that should be Stage II. You can always go back for a second visit, maybe bringing a larger knitting project this time (and a tame reporter with a camera at the ready). But here's hoping you get what you want at Stage I.

Hang in there, you are stronger than you think.

Marg

 

[Marguerite]

Oh, by the way - the difficult secretary. Do not make the mistake of assuming she is bad at her job, is unpopular or is a nasty person. Chances are she is the DA's most valuable and highly prized staff member. You need to be nice to this woman and do not bad-mouth her to her boss. It is thanks to her that he has as much organised timetabling as he does have, she has been hired to keep small annoyances away. Whatever he said one day in one place is not necessarily what he means. Of course, that doesn't matter to you - he DID say it, in front of witnesses, and has to be accountable. But that iust HIM, not her. She is just doing her job. Take her some donuts maybe, but take a bite of one first to prove they aren't poisoned. And don't expect the bribe to work - just watch it make her very unsettled because it won't be what she expects. Neither will the thermos of soup or the cushion and nanna blanket be expected. That makes you look VERY bag lady and that looks semi-permanent. Very scary, for them. It puts your desperation on a very practical footing.

Go for it. It's time for action and not the gnashing of teeth. If teeth must be gnashed, let them be difficult child's, or the DA's, or someone else. Not yours. You don't deserve it and it's not getting you anywhere.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

Marg outlined the operation's tactical and strategic points beautifully. GFO FOR IT with the DA. The worst they can do is escort you from the building. And the DA did say he would speak with you, you are simply trying Occupational Therapist (OT) be accomodating to a very busy person!

As for your daughter, she is playing you. Or the system. Either way, don't ever let her see you sweat.

She clearly is ill, but that does NOT excuse her behavior. I DO realize they can't force her to take her medications. I think that it is the craziest thing on the face of the earth, but they can't.

they don't have to make life easy for her though. TELL the CO about her wanting to stay in the psychiatric ward and making things up so she can be with a girlfriend. You want her to be as miserable as possible in jail. It is harsh. But necessary.

You also need to make it a point to never, EVER take her into your home to stay again. Not until she has been through enough of whatever treatment she needs to make her stable and safe.

Stress your younger child's safety, your own safety, and her refusal to follow even basic house rules. Sign her over to the state, whatever it takes to wake her up and make her own her behavior and the consequences of such while keeping the rest of you SAFE.

I am so sorry. I know this is terribly painful. But how much harder would it be to see her in prison after seriously hurting or killing your younger child?

It is a harsh thing to say, but you are in a harsh situation. Make her unhappy where she is. Move her to where she will be unhappy until she either gets better or she isn't under your control. It is your only real option.

I also agree - DO NOT DROP THE CHARGES!!!!! You lose EVERYTHING if you do. Absolutely everything, including the hope of a future with your daughter. She simply MUST find some benefit to staying within the laws, or she will break them until she ends up dead or in prison for good (jail and prison are very different from what I understand).

Gentle hugs,

Susie

 

[bran155]

Thank you guys. I appreciate your honesty and agree with everything you all said. I AM NOT DROPPING THE CHARGES!!!!!

I spoke to her lawyer yesterday at length. Boy did she paint a nasty picture of us to him. He went to see her and they talked for quite a bit. He was very nice and understanding of our situation. At first though, he was a bit abrupt as he was lied to by my daughter. She sugar coated her behavior and lied about the way I treat her. After a long conversation, I think he got it. He was upset at the fact that myself as well as our sw thought it best to press charges. He said that jail is no place for this kid. I had to explain to him what our lives have been like over the years. My daughter made it seem that we were the ones abusing her!!! I told him that pressing charges on my own child was not easy however, necessary. At first he told me that I should drop the charges. I told him that I was thinking about doing that only if she was to be placed elsewhere, where she could recieve treatment as well as be supervised. Fast forward, the end result is that we are going to try to get her released into a program funded by the state to protect the mentally ill as well as society. It's called T.A.S.C. , can't remember what it actually stands for. She will be mandated by the court to recieve her mental health treatment through this program. She will be monitored by the courts, she will need to attend therapy regularly as well as take her medications. The only downside to this is she will be living in my home. The original plan to place her into crisis care will not work as DSS no longer wants responsibility for her. Therefore they will not pay for it. Because of her being so close to 18, I think they are just giving up on her. While I agree she should no longer live with me - what do I do with her? I asked her lawyer what could be done to facilitate a placement for her throuth the courts. He actually chuckled and said that criminal court doesn't deal with that, that's only for family court. So, I am pretty much back to square one. While everyone agrees my daughter should not live with me, we just don't know what to do with her. We have already been down this road to no avail. The family courts have already placed her in 3 rtcs and now that she is going to be 18 they no longer want to deal with us. My sw is trying her best to find another place for her to live. She does qualify for residential housing through the Office Of Mental Health, however there are waiting lists and it is on a voluntary basis. So, she will be right back here putting us all through hell!!!!

Although I am falling apart inside, I never let her see that. When she calls from jail the conversation usually starts out okay, minutes into it she begins her attack. I give her a warning and then I hang up on her. I am so fed up with all of this and she knows it. I am not very nice to her and show her little sympathy as I don't feel she deserves my kindness anymore. I told her that she is on her own. If she chooses to do the right thing and get her life on track, take her medications, go to therapy and make better choices then I will go to the ends of the earth to help her. I told her that if she chooses to continue to destroy herself I will not be a part of it. I will do nothing for her. She keeps on telling me that when she turns 18 she "is out", I truly hope she means it. I do not want to live with her anymore. I do not want to watch her slowly kill herself anymore. I want to have some peace in my life and focus on my son who deserves a mom who is emotionally healthy!!!! I just can't get emotionally healthy while living with her. I will never understand why a person who is so out of control would choose not to get help, would choose not to take medication, would choose to rather stay out of control. I just can't understand that. I know it is hard to be my daughter and that she suffers more than I do, then why on earth wouldn't she want the help?????

I am sorry I rambled on a bit and my words are a bit scattered. I am in a rush, have to pick up my son. I wanted to reply before I left. Thank you all so much for your support and advice, I really do take your opinions seriously.

We have court tomorrow morning, I will let you know how it goes.

 

[klmno]

Good luck tomorrow- I just wanted to let you know that you're in my thoughts...

 

[TerryJ2]

Bran,
thank you for the update. What turmoil you are going through!
Literally between a rock and a hard place.
I am so glad you were able to discuss things fully with-the lawyer.

So, what sort of timeline are you looking at? At least while she's in jail, you get a respite of sorts. I like your program of speaking to her on the ph, and when the conversation deteriorates, you warn her, and then hang up. Good boiundary setting!

{{{hugs}}}

 

[susiestar]

Bran,

((((((((((hugs))))))))))

What an impossible situation. Will social services act if your daughter is threatening your other child? I am suggesting it as a way to get them to provide some sort of housing for her, under this new program or not.

When we were going through court with Wiz it was a Catch 22. As long as I was pushing to get him placed somewhere, and he wasn't living in our home, CPS (or whatever they are called) said that my other 2 kids were being cared for properly. IF we took Wiz back home, for ANY reason, CPS was prepared to take the OTHER 2 KIDS because then they would say I wasn't protecting them from him. The court wouldn't place Wiz because he was kicked out of the Youth shelter. We literally were waiting hour by hour to see where he would be living. After about 2 weeks of this, my Dad decided to keep him. I know that you don't have the family option I was blessed to ahve.

Can you somehow have an attorney for you and your young son argue with CPS that having her home isn't safe, you can't afford placement, and then turn her over to them? I am just struggling with the system's idea that you should have to take MORE of her abuse. It just isn't fair to you.

You have already gone through so much. I hate to hope a child will run away, but it seems that might be easier somehow for your young son. I worry about ehr effect on him, and on you! I know it is HE77 on your marriage.

Whatever can be worked out, I totally support you. Have you contacted any area churches about placements they may have or know of? I called EVERY church in our town, and many in towns up to 3 hours away when searching for a place for my son. I know I cried on a lot of pastor's and priests' shoulders. I would call, say "hello. I need your help. I have this situation (give a brief description of my son and the situation, danger to other kids and myself)" and then ask if they had any programs or knew of any programs to help families like ours. It was really hard to tell so many people our business, but I didn't have much to lose at that point. I did have some pastors who said they didn't know of anything, some who suggested other area groups, some who had solid leads.

I just thought I would suggest it as maybe a new avenue to try.

Again, I will 110% support whatever you can come up with. I know how hard it is, and how hard you are working for your family.

(((((hugs)))))