I am so FED UP and DISGUSTED

[Hound dog]

omg those are expensive.

I honestly don't think I'd be able to work the darn things. Remember, I'm the one who can barely talk on a cell phone. And while giving it to them would be easy.......retrieving it would be next to impossible. Katie does everything in her power to keep me out of her apartment.

And while I'm positive there is more on his camera, I wouldn't be able to get hold of it either.

She's not even having the birthday party at her apartment, it's being held in the complex's rec room.

I'm working on building trust with the grands. It's not easy when he's had their whole lives of total control. It's slow going.

I hate this stuff. I hate knowing it. I hate that I have to pray and bide my time. I'm not a patient person. I want something done and I want it done yesterday, not at some point in the vague future.

I contacted cps in mo over the picture of kayla, sent them a copy. They "investigated" and accepted katie's line of bull for it. Or else they didn't believe it enough to prosecute with, whatever, same difference. ugh

Just disgusted with the world at a large this evening and the system in general.

 

[elizabrary]

Hound Dog- I'm sorry, and I'm trying not to throw up. My only idea is this- is there any possible way you can get into their apartment by yourself during the b'day party? If you can get on their computer you may find the evidence you need. I don't know if that would be a normal thing for you to do- go to the apartment to get something needed for the party or whatever, but if you could and have the chance I would take the opportunity. Also, if I found anything incriminating I would call the police right then and wait for them. I can't really think of any other options for you because what he did is not against the law. although it does prove he's a total perv! Hang in there, lady! I'm sorry you are worrying so for your grandkids. I know how stressful that is.

 

[HaoZi]

Any chance he can be arrested for being in the apartment? Or does that do nothing but make the grands homeless?

 

[Steely]

So sorry - good god - I don't even know what to say.

My only advice that is different than what the others have suggested (which is all good) is somehow trying to get the kids into play therapy at your expense. I am not sure of your budget - but even if you got one of them into play therapy - they would inevitably act out the trauma they are enduring. If they did this, than the counselor would have more creditably than you with CPS.

Matt was sexually abused when he was little and I did not know about it. I remember a play therapy session he was in where the therapist took me aside and said, Matt just pulled his pants down in front of me - and that can be an indication of sexual abuse. At the time, I did not know what to make of it. However, if I were in your shoes, I would have then asked the therapist to report it to CPS.

Many hugs - I am SO done with the world today too I understand. I was about to post about my cr@ppy day with Matt - but your post put things into a different light.

 

[mom_to_3]

You can anonymously call 911 for a welfare check on the children, and the police HAVE TO DO A WELFARE CHECK. It's as simple as that. You can tell them that you fear for the children’s safety with M's sexual perversion. Tell them he is soliciting online with nude pictures and that these children have been in the background of his nude pictures. You don't have to record anything, talk to cps or talk to Katie. A welfare check of the children will put this to rest one way or another fairly quickly. It ought to put your mind to rest pretty quick too. Right now would be a good time to do this. Let us know how it unfolds!

 

[mrsammler]

"Or else you need to find someone to take him hunting back in the woods."

That was my thinking exactly. This, by the way, is how Inuit eskimos handle the occasional "kunlangeta" (their word for what we term a "psychopath") who crops up in their community: someone takes him out "hunting" and comes back without him. No one asks what happened--they're just glad the guy is gone.

Call the cops and tell 'em they need to drop in unannounced for a health & welfare check for the kids. And I'd tell the landlord/landlady that M is staying there. The guy is VILE and needs to be removed from the scene.

I'll tell you how this is handled in the deep South, where my family is from: a couple of your brothers, or husky uncles or cousins, drives over there with a pickup truck and "helps" him move out, and by "out" I mean way out--out of the county, across a state line, whatever. But then again, that's the old south and I know that's not how it works everywhere. But this fellow M needs the full treatment...

 

[1905]

I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if this is being repeated. Take all your info and go directly to the guidance counselor at school. THEY know many, many resources. If there is any suspision of wrongdoing to these kids, the kids will be questioned by a professional authority of some sort at school immediately. Like today. I wouldn't talk to the teacher because she won't know what to really do, whereas the guidance counselor will know exactly, and can totally help you confidentialy. Hound, many, many hugs.......

 

[susiestar]

Is school out for the summer yet? We are out here, OK gets out in May because it gets so hot here. The guidance counselor would be a good resource.

Is anyone here tech savvy enough to help get a game iwth a keylogger program hidden in it to you? A game that M or the kids would like, and then the keylogger or some sort of spyware would run unnoticed in the background and send info over the internet to your computer? It would give you a LOT of evidence of what he is doing online, including if he is doing what I mentioned in my pm to you. NO WAY can he actually have the skill to find it or stop it or track it to you. Heck, if he does, play dumb. how the H would you knwo about it, you cannot program a cell phone! It was just a game you got for the kids/him/whatever.

You do NOT have to be where he is to get the info from this - that is the beauty of it. It just travels on the internet right into your computer.

I wish there was some sort of underground railroad that could whisk the kids away to a better life with-o their parents. but it would traumatize them further and is just a pipe dream.

 

[DaisyFace]

You can anonymously call 911 for a welfare check on the children, and the police HAVE TO DO A WELFARE CHECK. It's as simple as that.

We just went through a "welfare check" on a friend who was threatening suicide and then stopped answering his door and and his phone. Fearing the worst, husband called the sheriff to do a "welfare check".

Well, the sheriff drove out there, all right.

Called husband to say "You're right, he's not answering his door."

Yeah. Great. Thanks.

So, I would not pin all my hopes on the "welfare check". I'm sure it will be no more than "Are the kids OK? Okay, great. Have a nice day."

 

[AnnieO]

You have to be careful with welfare checks.

The city we live in, one year when BM refused to let the kids see husband and he finally got a peace officer to help him? She called them 8 days in a row to do welfare checks. The third time, they told her to stop calling - it was harassment. But they never did anything to her. They just quit coming out after the 2nd time.

 

[1905]

Hound, how are you holding up? Update please, I've been thinking about those kids all day. I hope you can have some peace of mind tonight. PM if you need to, I know the school I work in deals with some awful things at times....maybe I can pick our guidance couselors brain, let me know.(((morehugs))

 

[Hound dog]

Other than completely disgusted and frustrated out of my mind...........and jaded beyond belief, I guess I'm not doing too bad.

Requesting a Welfare Check sounds fantastic. But here a welfare check consists of the officers knocking on the door, asking to see the kids, asking if everything is ok, and unless something is so off the wall obvious? They turn and leave. I know. I've called enough times and WATCHED them enough times in the very same apartment complex where katie is living now. They never once stepped inside. Not once. Nor where kids ever removed or questioned alone.

To some degree it's not the officer's fault. If cps won't do anything there is little point in putting much effort in. Our cps has to be in your face omg the child is dying or tortured before they move........they're overwhlemed. There is one good worker.......well there was, she may no longer be there. They don't last long. You might get them to move on medical neglect, depending on what it is......and unfortunately that doesn't have much to do with the law. Because unless it's severe, parent gets a warning and told to seek medical attention and it's over. Caseworkers will pick a report apart just so they don't have to act on it. I know. I sat there while they did it to me twice. And that time I had katie's pediatrician doctor to back me up. Once I had a baby brought to me so severely malnurished she couldn't hold her head up, she couldn't even cry. Took her to the ER. No report to cps. Took her home where I called cps, called her pediatrician doctor (whom I knew because she was also katie's pediatrician doctor) doctor got cps to sign temp custody of a STRANGERS child over to me until family could be located to take her, so she' knew she'd be cared for. I had to flat out tell cps NO I wouldn't take custody of that child on a permanent basis. Mostly because I was in the middle of dealing with katie and her neglected/abused babies at the time. And then had the same agency tell me that reports I filed on katie .......reports of gross neglect and abuse could not be acted on because they stretched over a period of a year. Yeah. That's what I'm dealing with here.

I'm no stranger to our county cps dept. If it's not in your face there is absolutely no way to ignore it, they find a way to drop it......or to "work with the parents to resolve it". bah! Yeah. I wanna know why they didn't move while Alex was being "dropped" on his head repeatedly as a newborn, yet NEVER saw a doctor. (except for the time when I took him because he couldn't move his arms and legs properly.........and that doctor blew if off cuz he had his own pediatrician doctor.......except SHE hadn't seen him since he'd left the hospital. I want to know why leaving an infant lying in liquid diarrhea for hours screaming is ok........or rationing her food to the point where a 6 month old child is only being fed 2 oz of formula every 6 hrs is ok. Oh, how about katie throwing her 5 month old from across the room into the playpen? Infant cries in the bath? Well, just dunk her head under the water. All those things......and trust me, this is the TIP of it all........were just hunky dory.

Sorry. Guess I'm not dealing with it as well as I thought. It's like I've been plunged head first back into the nightmare of a decade ago..........and once again I can do little to protect my grandkids. THIS is why I didn't really want her to come here. It's bad at a distance, but here it's in my face and I can't get the h*ll away from it.

I try to stay detached. I try to pretend and just go on enjoying the rest of the family ect.....but I swear every time I think I got a hold on it something smacks me right back upside the head with it again. Like M's new posting.

I don't know if talking with school counselor's would work or not. Honestly? I'm not Miss Popular with our schools. I made them tow the line with Travis and Nichole, and when they didn't I gave them ten kinds of hades and made sure I had the law and doctor reports to back me up. I've gotten some wary looks just when I go to functions for the grands ect.....or to Alex's IEP meetings. And school is out for summer and I'm not sure one would even be available. Or if it would do any good. Cps isn't much better with them from what I've been told. They may take the report, but that doesn't mean anything gets done.

As for the hunting.........M is a self inflated whimp. He wouldn't go because another person might figure out he's all mouth. So even that option wouldn't work, but I know what you mean........there is something to be said for that old fashioned brand of justice. Mustn't tempt me.

I've taken a break from online except to come here because......well the temptation to lay into katie something vicious is just so great. I've been avoiding my phone for the same reason. So instead.........I dived into coupons, then did shop therapy with easy child for several hours. It at least distracted me for a bit.

So far, no one thinks it's enough to move on. At least no one I've spoken to so far. I won't give up. But at the moment we're still in a holding pattern waiting for something they can take and run with......or WILL take and run with, I guess I should say.

And this is why.........I'm the eternal pessimist.

 

[DammitJanet]

isnt your sister in law a computer guy? He should be able to go to a site and get a keylogger program and insert it into something innocuous and give them a cd game to play on their computer. I actually installed a keylogger on a coworkers computer who was preying on cory back when he was 12/13 and got dirt on him. Scum. Talking sex online to my kid from work over instant messenger. Disgusting pervert.

I was in a bit of a pickle though because I put unauthorized software on government equipment in order to obtain private conversations of a crime...what to do what to do...sigh.

 

[Hound dog]

Ahhhh. Hmmm. I think I may be having some in depth discussions with sister in law and Travis.

It would be risky. Chances of what we'd find vs hacking into someone's computer which is also illegal. I wonder if they'd toss out evidence gained that way? hmm

I'll have to see about perhaps getting those two's heads together. Whatever plan they come up with has got to be from the outside.

Thanks for the idea Janet.........

 

[HaoZi]

If there's ANY chance he put up something about the kids online, maybe the Feds online task force could get him.

 

[susiestar]

If the info comes from you with an admission that you got it illegally, they may not be able to use it. If it is sent anonymously they ahve no idea if it is gotten illegally or not. If it is kiddy porn, and the law enforcement agency did NOT get it illegally but someone else did, in most states they can still use it. The deal is that the cops, etc... cannot break the law to get it. But they can use info an informant gives them even if the informant broke the law as long as the cops did not ask the informant to get the info. In a case of child porn, they are NOT going to come down hard on a grandparent or other family member who spied to find out if their beloved grandchild/niece/nephew/son/daughter is being abused for child porn reasons. Anyone who tried to penalize you legally or in civil court would face such immense public outcry (and most reporters would LOVE a story of a gma or uncle who did what was needed to get info to protect a child from this and then was sent to jail or sued because they spied illegally on a computer - trust me, it would be HUGE for the reporter and public sympathy would be 1000% on your side) that no charges would be brought. No jury would find you guilty, no prosecutor would try it. It owuld RUIN any chances for promotion or political office if they tried a person who only spied on a computer to get evidence to protect a child. Esp if they are related to that child, Know what I mean??

Also, they could NOT sue you in civil court because you cannot claim someone violated your rights if you are doing something illegal and the violated rights led to prosecution. Just like a drug dealer cannot charge someone who stole money or drugs from them with theft. The illegal act makes the charges unable to be upheld or even brought against you. I may not be phrasing this correctly, but basically you cannot use your legal rights to protect an illegal act. So you would most likely NOT be in any trouble, no matter what is threatened. Heck, there are enough of us here to twitter and facebook about anything that happened Occupational Therapist (OT) get it media attention to get public opinion to sway things your way if needed. I have been tempted to start a "why doesn't southwest OH CPS do anything" campaign going on fb/twitter/etc... just because I know so many people who have tried to report things, serious abuse of kids, and gotten no response from them at all. Until we moved back here I sort of thought all CPS was like that, but here every report is acted on, at least given a home visit and school/daycare visit, no matter how overloaded they are. I just haven't thought the entire strategy through yet.

I am sorry that you are in a situation where you know things are badly wrong in that family and so far you can do nothing about it because the groups that are supposed to care just don't. It sickens me, but if your grandkids were puppies the law and spca would be all over them in that part of the country. But because they are children no one seems to care. Cliche, probably, but the truth nonetheless. I guess things get to be cliches because they are so often true, sick as that is.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Another thought: try contacting the Perverted Justice group (the one that Dateline NBC used). They may be able to offer suggestions.

 

[DammitJanet]

I wouldnt worry about the legality of it...they arent going to call foul. While I have heard of drug dealers calling the cops to report that someone stole their drugs, it is rare. I doubt that M would be stupid enough to file charges because you caught him in abusing his kids.

 

[Star*]

What about calling Hannity? You know.....the guy who busts pervs on TV?

 

[Hound dog]

Hannity?

You guys have to remember, it's a rare thing for me to watch tv. When I do........it's medical shows or history channel or something. lol