I finally put my foot down. still in shock.

[Tanya M]

Danged if you do and danged if you don't. Sometimes there is just no winning with our kids.
He wants your advice but he doesn't, or rather he only wants advice that he can align with.
If it were me I would patiently listen and when it came to the point where he wants advise I would ask him "well, what do you think would be best" and whatever he answers say something like "that is one way to go about it" then say "you might also consider (fill in what you want)
It's not so much what you say but how you say it. Making it more of a "suggestion" than a "direction"
You know your son and you know how this dance will go, slowly change the music and lead him into a different dance.
((HUGS))

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Danged if you do and danged if you don't. Sometimes there is just no winning with our kids.
He wants your advice but he doesn't, or rather he only wants advice that he can align with.
If it were me I would patiently listen and when it came to the point where he wants advise I would ask him "well, what do you think would be best" and whatever he answers say something like "that is one way to go about it" then say "you might also consider (fill in what you want)
It's not so much what you say but how you say it. Making it more of a "suggestion" than a "direction"
You know your son and you know how this dance will go, slowly change the music and lead him into a different dance.
((HUGS))

I don't think he is looking for advice in this case. He is going through the same thing over and over with her. He knows that the only suggestion she can make to him is to seek medical supervision. Something he has decided against before making the call to her. He isn't seeking help. He is seeking a punching bag. But the very last person you would consider treating that way is your own mother. I mean, you shouldn't treat anybody that way, but ESPECIALLY your own mother. He is looking for coddling. He is looking to be told that he is right, everybody else is stupid, etc. When she provides practical suggestions, he scoffs at it. He is looking to take his out on somebody else.

 

[Copabanana]

"If you need to vent, I'll listen. But I WON'T have you call me stupid and I WON'T have you disrespect me anymore. I AM YOUR MOTHER! YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO ME THAT WAY, PERIOD!

I agree with Lil.

I have to avoid things per his rules.

How is this different, SWOT, than what goneboy did. Making you jump through hoops? OK. With goneboy you knew somewhere inside you that you were losing. But with Bart, you know he loves you. It comes back to you, SWOT, what is it that keeps you from defending yourself? You have drawn a line. Good. But I believe we need to understand what in us keeps us accepting mistreatment.It is like my latest thread, and Lil asking, do you know why it is hard for you to stand up for yourself (to the young boss?)

call me stupid every day, usually when he can't control his world.

SWOT, you were called stupid (or words like that) and you learned to think about yourself as such. You have worked so hard believing in yourself.

Bart has to know how he is hurting you by these cruel and false words. That you accept it, (accepted it) from him, does not forgive it.

Really, I know how he must feel inside. He is hysterical. But if he cannot stop it you must stop him. No differently than if he was a toddler throwing a fit. Because it is.

I ask you to feel compassion, however, not for him. But for yourself. Take this vow with me. Never, ever again shall we allow anybody to abuse us verbally without speaking out to call it what it is and to stop it. Right now.

 

[Kalahou]

BECAUSE we are their mom and they are our son. ... moms and sons are a unique combination, the toughest nut to crack, in terms of codependent relationships.

It true COM. And especially moms and Difficult Child sons. Why? I remember for the first 3 months after he was born (3rd child after almost 10 years) I could not stop saying “Thank you, thank you, thank you for him.” And I still say it. And I still get taken in by the hope and “maybes” I have. While I recognize the truth that he is different, and doesn’t “get” all that life is about, doesn’t “get” the need for planning and responsibility, and makes poor choices, and puts on victim airs (all which I have a hard time with, and would not deal with in someone else / I would just not deal with another such person in my circles) , I can’t help but pray and give benefit of the doubt for this son, as I'm sure do all the moms of Difficult Child sons here. I’m trying to learn from it ~ why / for what benefit ~ were we placed together in the same family? What opportunities and blessings are there to develop us for our purposes in life?

we can start to see that we aren't good for them, and they aren't good for us. Especially them and especially us.

…. Heavy questions. Heavy prayers on our hearts. Heavy patience and faithfulness in knowing limits and boundaries in practicing the much needed loving detachment. None of this is easy. Just trying to stay steadfast each new day ... “ In due season, you will reap … "

Thoughts are with you SWOT. You are strong and know the ropes. I have learned so much from you. Take care. ~K

 

[Childofmine]

Kalahou, I would say that we aren't good for them right now. This does not have to be a forever thing. When our DCs are in the throes of their struggle, we, their codependent moms, are not good for them because we prevent the natural consequences of their choices. That is not good. I did it again and again and again in my fear and my love.

Finally I saw that I was actually his worst enemy at that time. And once I saw that, it was a motivation for me to change.

Yesterday my sister and I talked about our beloved mother, who at 84 is her son's worst enabler and enemy. She is distraught over his alcoholism but she has not been able---yet---to see her role in it. My brother is not allowed to face the consequences of his choices. He is 52 year old man living with his mom and dad and working full time and drinking himself to death. But this past weekend, my mom told my aunt she is ready to go to alanon for the first time ever. Five years ago I first mentioned alanon to my parents. Last year I gave them two alanon books. I haven't mentioned it since. People get ready to change when they are sick and tired enough.

My brothers alcoholism is getting worse, as all addictions do. My mother is watching her precious son slowly self destruct. Maybe she is getting sick and tired enough. And maybe not.

Warm hugs.

 

[mof]

I know how this feels, but it wasn't my son. I called it the proverbial punching bag, my mother in law was an alcoholic and a mean one. Her family danced and enabled her. I was young and never had experienced such hate and prejudice before.

It took me 15 yrs to put my foot down, for my husband to see the dysfunction. Regardless....He feels he can say and treat you any way he feels...they don't want you to fix it, they just want to whine, he'll and feel they are right. The only thing you can do is control how you react....calmly.....it's hard to yell at a person who is indifferent and not feeding into a reaction.

Blessings, I woke early with a heavy heart...it's that kind of day, thought of all of this am.

Stay strong....you sound like an amazing person.

 

[BusynMember]

Thank you COM. Great post. I will snswer only whrn I feel up to it. At the same time, if he gets abusive I will say,"Got to go. Love you." And end the call.

Last night he texted me that he called attorney and feels better. Maybe he will lean on his attirney more now. Thats who can help him, not me.

Copa I no longer accept bring called stupid. If anything the word enrages me and I end the call. He knows very little about me and mother. He isnt interested. I dont want my kids to think Im fragile so they only know a bit about my relationship with her. They know it wasnt loving.

 

[savior no more]

Listen, make "uh-huh" and sympathetic tongue clucking noises.

This is the best advice I've EVER seen. Got such a chuckle thinking of the sympathetic tongue clucking noises

 

[GoingNorth]

Sort of like the advice i was given years ago when I was still Jewish and had a whole string of Catholic weddings to go to.

I called my grandfather, an Orthodox rabbi. Once he got over his near coronary about me actually entering a Catholic church, he said, "Bow your head and look respectful. DON'T KNEEL!"

IN this case I think all you can do is make respectful, reinforcing statements that reiterate how competent you think your child is, while making it very clear that you can't/won't help them.

 

[blackgnat]

SWOT, you give SO much good and practical advice to everyone here. I know that when I read your responses, I'm gonna get a GREAT reality check.

I haven't really read the other replies in detail, but all I can tell you is what I would do. When he calls you, you can tell him-"Son, I really don't have anything else to say about your physical condition, other than GO TO A DOCTOR. I don't want to hear about it, as much as I love you, because I am not a medical professional and I don't want to give you advice that could make things worse. I'm not trying to PUNISH YOU by saying this, just thinking about the most sensible course of action for you to take".

 

[BusynMember]

Thank you, black gnat You are very knd. I am kinda a radical realist...lol. im glad I help you.

Actually, Things are temporarily better here. He's more hopeful becsuse he actually did talk to his lawyer. Imagine that! Talking to his lawyer helped!!! I guess he finally called because he had nobody to talk to. I wasnt answering my phone.

So I finally Talked to him, ready to disconnect if his demeaner changed, and we agreed that he won't talk about how his stress makes him feel physically ill and I said that if he doesnt, I won't mention a doctor. So kind of followed your advice before you gave it...lol.

Thanks for your kindness to me at a time I know it is difficult for you. I value this and wish you some peace.