I give up. It hurts too much to hope.

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I don't believe your son is capable of making good decisions for himself or to be completely on his own. He doesn't really understand that no medications means he can die. He also has delusions about the world and has suffered in utero drug exposure, probable alcohol exposure (which is even worse) and a head injury.
I did not sleep all night long, and for 6 of those hours all I could think of is that he was out there somewhere (actually still in the 2 week treatment place) and he was going to get sick and he was going to die and there was nothing I could do about it.

I am absolutely frantic. I too do not think he understands.

I do not know what my first step should be, an attorney or a psychiatrist. As I write I think an attorney because an attorney will tell me what I need specifically and then I try to get my son to go along with it.

Meanwhile, I will do as Lil advised and go to Social Security and speak to a higher up about a payee. We spoke to a Supervisor the first time but I will go higher up.

I am really thinking SWOT that I need medication but what stopped me is that the Psychiatrist I have been speaking to by phone is a whole day trip to get to. There is a well-regarded Psychiatrist here so I will call today.

I am such a mess today. Almost hysterical.

Thank you Everybody.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, when I say I know how you feel and I"m sorry, I mean it.

You don't get to stay in a top notch university psychiatric hospital for ten weeks for suicidal depression if they think you are safe on your own so I have been there with that nasty black pit, as I call it. Many times actually.

Be good to you. Do what you need to do to get peace of mind over your son and medical help for yourself. That's one thing I always did for me. I made sure I kept trying and trying to get better with my depression and sensitivity and FOO issues and neurological glitches. Ugh.

But it was worth it.

YOU ARE WORTH IT!!!!!
 

allusedup

Member
Copa, when I get like you are right now and I have been there more times than I care to think about, I try toremember the bible verse.. BE STILL and KNOW I am God. I hope I am not over stepping here but it is kind of a reset button for me. It reminds me that I can not fix whatever craziness I am going through. At that point I have to give it to Him and pray he helps me get through it. Even with the best of advice from wonderful well meaning friends, I have to believe that there is someone out there bigger and stronger than me that will guide me through, show me the right things to do. After I pray for that, I try to do what feels right. It has given me a measure of peace in times that there was none to be found anywhere else.
You may very well need medication right now and possibly from now on. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There have been times that I probably would have killed myself had I not been on it.
Copa, my heart hurts for you. I have been there. Please know that you are utmost in my prayers right now, that He will lift you up right now, give you peace and open up the way for you to help your son.
I am not a bible thumper, nor do I pretent to be perfect so I hope I haven't come off sounding that way. I just know my faith has gotten me through some terrible times.
LOVE and warm hugs, Copa.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
It is his responsibility to learn how to be as functional as he can with his limitations. I have become more accepting of this and know I cant change it.
“she has a right to make decisions for her own health.. even if they’re stupid ones.”

I don't believe your son is capable of making good decisions for himself or to be completely on his own. He doesn't really understand that no medications means he can die. He also has delusions about the world and has suffered in utero drug exposure, probable alcohol exposure
How to reconcile these two perspectives.

I agree with you SWOT. I do not think he is making good decision. I do not think he understands the risk he is putting himself in. I do think he believes he can control his Hepatitis with OTC supplements. I do think his anxiety about his health is so severe as to render him paralyzed and thus almost incapable of medication compliance because of fear rather than lack of concern.

I think that this is the distinction. If the psychiatric diagnosis makes it so somebody cannot understand their health situation and undermines significantly their compliance with treatment, they lack capacity to make medical decisions. And I think my son is impaired in both of these ways.

Plus I think that the manner in which he lives is the coup d'tat. The way that he lives is so disorganized that he is further destabilized psychologically.

At the same time he has such objective disorganization and instability of his life lacking any control over and consistency in his housing that it would be impossible for anybody to adhere to any kind of important self-care regimen in these circumstances.

So it sounds like I have convinced myself to look into medical guardianship. And it also underscores my need to go to Social Security, because I have to get what ever leverage I can have to help my son address money and housing through his having a payee, whether me or somebody else.

I do not think that my son is going to come up with answers in the psychological place he is in right now. It is like a tire in a puddle of mud. He cannot get traction.

From a place of security and calm he can become more functional and responsible. Where he is psychologically now, it is not going to happen. I do not think so.

I think my first step is going to be to call the treatment facility where he is now. There is not a signed release so I will not get anywhere but I will start with my son, and see if we can find a place of cooperation. I kind of doubt it. But I will start there.

I will also look into finding an attorney. And I think I will make a call to a psychiatrist. Not sure on that one. Maybe I will wait until I speak with my son and see if we can agree on a release. Because there will be a psychiatrist that works with the facility where he is at. It makes sense to deal with this as much as we can before he leaves where he is.

I will sign off now to make a couple of calls and I will get back to you.

I am very fond of the saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating." It has been 3 and a half years that my son has been out of my home (mainly.)

He is not learning how to handle essential, fundamental important areas of independent living and functioning. He both seeks and needs to live near to or with somebody who cares about him, in order to take care of himself. He knows this. I have been slow to accept it. Partly from hope. Also because the only person who will consistently care about him is me.

And I feel when he is here in the house that my life is slowly being beaten out of me and taken from me.

I am not saying I am ready to accept him back home, but I have progressed in my thinking to the point of knowing that I must act.

That may help me calm down. Accepting my son as he is, not how I want him to be, is key here. I think that has been a large part of my desperation that he do this or that or something. I kept wanting him to hurry up and take care of himself. More and more desperately.

And he cannot, at least not without my help. I have to accept this. And I will. I am.

I have the opportunity now to accept that he cannot do it all by himself, and replace the outrage and desperation that he was choosing to not do what he needed to, what I needed him to do, with acceptance that he cannot. Not now, at least.

Thank you.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I spoke with a psychiatrist who says medical guardianship will not help me. So it seems I am left with trying to get payee status. I thought my first step would be to collaborate with my son and to ask him; and possibly speak with a psychiatrist to obtain a letter for Social Security.

I called and left a message where I thought he was. No reply.

I called again and was told he was discharged this morning. No one would tell me where he went.

I am left holding the bag of feelings.

I am getting to the point that I feel so destabilized by this I will do almost anything to get him stable so that he will take antivirals for his liver, including letting him live here for a time.

But he has fouled things up so with his Hepatologist by not getting to appointments, cannot be seen by her until October. Whether this is true or false I do not know. The fact is I rarely know what is true about what he tells me. I do know it is true he is not taking his medication.

I do not at this moment know where my son is or how to find him. He is mad at me and I doubt if he will call soon.

Again, I do not know how to handle this.

I know the solution lies somewhere in me. I have accepted that he needs my help. But how? If I cannot find him. And he will not call me.

I get angry with him when I feel helpless and say stupid things. I do not know how long he will stay mad at me.

What do I do to make this not hurt so much? It seems like either detachment parenting is not working for me. Or that I am not working detachment parenting.

What is clear is that I have accepted that my son cannot do this alone. The only problem with that is that as yet, I cannot do it with him.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
You may very well need medication right now and possibly from now on. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There have been times that I probably would have killed myself had I not been on it.
Girl, we are exactly in the same mindset here. The medications, like insulin and epilepsy medications and heart medications, have kept me alive and happy most of the time. They are not s hameful and do not mean we are weak. I have no idea why some people think they do.

My dysfunctional sister says running is her drug. She runs a lot. It may well keep her off medication. But I run too and I still get depressed sometimes even ON medications. Natural methods do not work if the depression is very severe.


(by the way, I am not my sister, but I feel that her lifestyle and demeaner when I talk to her indicates that all the running in the w orld is not helping her depression. She also has anorexia so maybe the running is part of her illness).
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
What is clear is that I have accepted that my son cannot do this alone.
Copa... the problem is that it takes TWO to do this, and you do not know whether your son has accepted this or not. Yes, he still does have a choice - the choice to accept help or reject it.

The only person you can actually control is YOU. Took me a long time to learn that, too. I'm glad you're looking into medications for yourself. Somehow, you have to get off this hamster wheel.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Yes, he still does have a choice - the choice to accept help or reject it.
I agree with you Insane. He wants help. And he is coming to the point of understanding he has to give a little. Or a lot. That to get help, he needs to go part way. We have gotten that far.

Except that his acceptance has its limits. He then tries to buck it.

The problem I think is attitude. His and mine. We are still jockeying for control. I have gained a lot of ground, but seem still to be so fragile is to require absolute power, not negotiated. I was as if powerless for so long that I do not have the muscle yet to accept blips. I overreact.
The only person you can actually control is YOU.
Yes. It is one thing to understand this. It is quite another to accept it on an emotional level. I am working hard. I think I am able to settle myself more quickly as I am on this Forum.
Somehow, you have to get off this hamster wheel.
Yes. I am committed now to doing what it takes to get to the next level. Thank you, Insane.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Did anyone in your life, sister or mother make fun of medication for depression?
No. Nobody in my family has been that connected to me to know that I had gotten depressed.

My mother was told she had a mood disorder. She would never, ever accept medication. Maybe toughing it out comes from that.

I think my sister might take anti-depressants. Well before my Mother died when we were talking at least a little, she did mention that because of mother's treatment of her, she had gotten depressed. I would bet she does take medication.
.
The thing is SWOT at other times of my life I took anti-depressants, without hesitation. First Prozac, when it was new, then Paxil, then Zoloft, which I took several times. When I got so depressed after my Mother died I took Zoloft. It had no effect. It did not help me one bit. I came to the conclusion that because I was grieving, and this was an actual event and a process, that perhaps this overrode the medication. After a year or so, I stopped.

It is interesting to me why I did not seek alternative medications. I think I did not because I was depressed. I just could not care enough. Until now.

Thank you for caring, SWOT.
 

tryagain

Active Member
Copa, your pain comes right through the written words. I was aching for you as I read your last few entries. Last fall, I was writing about
-the pain that hope brings.
-the kaleidoscope of confusion that faith can bring.
-the emptiness from being let down, yet again.
-the hurt and agony and the wretched torment of the realization of things that no amount of wishful thinking will change.
It is painful and I wish so badly that I could give you some perfect advice that would make things all better. It does help me to take deep breaths and remember: I did not cause this. I cannot control this. And I must let go, or be dragged. Even if you cannot physically "let go" of the help you are providing, it is possible to let go emotionally to whatever degree you are able, in order to find peace.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Guess what people...

It is good news.

My son made an appointment for this Friday with his Hepatologist. I am elated.

An automated call from that hospital just came, and he has an appointment this Friday!!!!!! To say I am thrilled is an understatement. On so many levels. He did it. He showed the organization and the guts to face a difficult situation. He has blown it before with this Hepatologist, many times. To face her is difficult. She is the chair of the Department, and yells, but has great affection for my son. And he must face the music in his blood work.

He listened to me.

I have been posting day and night as a way to manage my worry over my son. He discharged yesterday from the 2 week voluntary crisis program he entered, one week early. I have been frantic not knowing where he was. My worry as you know mostly centers around his liver, that he is not on necessary antiviral medication.

He had confessed to me 2 weeks ago that he had stopped it, believing his OTC supplements could limit damage from the virus. And he told me last week that the earliest he could be seen at the University Hepatology 'Clinic was October. I felt dread.

He is doing it. It is another start. Reason for hope. I will enjoy this few minutes of happiness and I will either here or in a new thread post on a related issue on which I would appreciate your help.

Thank you.
 
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AppleCori

Well-Known Member
Yeah!

I have heard of people having Hep C for years, unknowingly, and when tested their liver is still in good condition.

This may well be the case for your son, as he probably hasn't had it too long.
 
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