I hung up first

[BusynMember]

Okay so Son calls me this morning because for reasons that are solid but will bite him in the backside if he does it, he wants to deposition parents of my grandson's friends...parents who ex has trashed him to so badly that grandson wasn't allowed to even talk to the kids when he was in son's custody. She's starting again. She has a strong personality so others tend not to want to get on her bad side. Often they believe her.


I get his anger but think deposotioning parents will tick them off and keep their kids away from him again for THAT reason and that ex will keep doing it anyway.

He feels she needs to be punished by the courts to stop doing it and other similar things. I don't think she'll stop unless in jail, which won't happen. I don't think his lawyer even wants to go there. His lawyer has acted disinterested in the case of late. And I don't want my son to suffer, but I am all tired out myself. I want to offer emotional support, but it never works. Well rarely.

My son is the only stressor I still have in an otherwise peaceful, happy life. But he is a big one. So he didn't like something I said. The screaming began and I knew the names and abuse were starting so I said good bye quietly and disconnected call. I felt a little guilty. Not sure why. Maybe because son truly believes he is right and, even when he asks for input, I should know better than to give any. Obviously his thinking is abnormal in my opinion.

I am going to Chicago with Jumper today to have our first Thanksgiving with Princess and granddaughter. My stomach is rumbling, the way only these adult kids can upset us.

I texted him that I'm done with the case, that I love him but this was between him and his lawyer. He never texts so I'm safe from a reply. I'm not answering his calls all weekend and maybe longer. I am so tired of 40 years of either being ignored or, since the divorce, being abused. I have three other kids showing me exactly what a normal, loving parent/child relationship is like. I can't say I don't know.

Son and I dont have a normal relationship. We never will.

It is sad to acknowledge this but I am on a spiritual journey...and I don't know how to be kind to him, like I want to be and find it so easy to be with others, even those others i once struggled with. He is the my one person where kindness and humility and self love wont work.

Thanks for a place to vent. Need to ask my God, angels, spirit guide for more wisdom. I can't figure him out on my own. I dont want to cut him off completely. But I need to cut contact to low. This is nuts.

 

[Lil]

His lawyer has acted disinterested in the case of late.

Really, I expect he's not disinterested as just tired of your son. He has other cases. He can only do so much and he's probably at a lull in son's case so he's using the time to work on the others.

The screaming began and I knew the names and abuse were starting so I said good bye quietly and disconnected call.

Good job. I listen to a lot of screaming from mine...but never personal abuse. Bravo for stopping it before it started.

Have a WONDERFUL holiday with Princess and Jumper and the little one! Let them soothe your battered spirit.

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks so much.

I agree with you about lawyer.

Thanks for checking in.

 

[RN0441]

SWOT

We all have our cross to bear in life, and he is yours. I agree. Cut him off at the pass. Do not tolerate any yelling, name calling etc. That is plain ridiculous. Do NOT feel guilty one little bit.

Have a wonderful holiday!

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks so much, RN

It probably hurts me more to reject his calls than it hurts him. It seems...he has no heart. I do t know why. He was always deeply loved but he lacked compassion from his toddler days. I think he was born this way and nothing I did ever helped him. I see this in my father too. I think he inherited it.

 

[A dad]

I would love a life without stress but even I can not have that so I manage my life so I have just enough stress that it does not cross a certain limit.
You did said a couple of times you would not give up on him but you can limit the stress he gives you below the limit or at worst at the limit.
For example you do not like him talking about his problems and himself so much but is it below the limit for the stress he gives you?

 

[BusynMember]

I gave up on him changing. I don't see it. He has always been this way. It's in his makeup.

No, it doesn't impact my days or life for long after its over. He lives far away and that helps. And he has a high paying job, a house, a nice car...i do t have to worry he will be homeless which would be a huge stress. Drugs aren't an issue. Im.just sorry that he has no friends And is so unhappy and angry. And I would like to want to visit him but I don't.

I was far more stressed when he was young and strong and cornered me. But there is still stress and sadness that he is so abusive...that he is like he is.

 

[A dad]

Oh I do not mean changing him I mean keeping the stress that he gives to you to a limit. More like accepting a certain level of stress and sadness from him.
That kinda sounds sad saying it but that is my point. Make a limit on how much you can take and then you stop like you did now. He is not gonna cut contact with you its not the first time you did this I think and he still kept contact.

 

[Snow White]

The screaming began and I knew the names and abuse were starting so I said good bye quietly and disconnected call.

You did the right thing, SWOT. You would have told us to do the same. Funny that your son called at about the same time that my daughter did (her last email rant was toxic and abusive) today. She's upset because she thinks I've been "talking to people, telling them what country she's in." After I affirmed that I have spoken to no one, she wanted to start in using the same jargon that her email started with and I knew the abuse was about to start. I told her I needed to get back to work, said goodbye and hung up. She called back again (telling me not to hang up). I repeated my mantra. No further calls.

It is sad to acknowledge this but I am on a spiritual journey...and I don't know how to be kind to him, like I want to be and find it so easy to be with others, even those others i once struggled with. He is the my one person where kindness and humility and self love wont work.

I wish my daughter could be honest, caring and happy. I feel the same stress and sadness as you do and at other times I get really angry. I don't think it ever truly goes away. But I'm working on that - hopefully our journeys lead to the same place.

{Hugs}

 

[BusynMember]

I don't get angry anymore. But I don't expect him to change either. I have no hope of that. He is this way and it hurts him more than anyone else and he doesn't see himself as ever wrong.

I'm used to it.

I mostly focus on myself now and my loved ones who are capable of love. He is so self absorbed that nobody else's life matters.

It is his loss.

I hope you are doing okay. Both of us need to stop answering the phone so much.

 

[Snow White]

Both of us need to stop answering the phone so much.

Thanks, SWOT! Yes, that is for sure! We both need to go on a phone diet!

I have already asked our director at work about having my work phone number changed. They are very supportive. We're going to have our landline number changed next week. We had already changed our cell phone numbers when she abused that privilege a couple of years ago.

I'm focusing also on myself and loved ones (related and friends) who are able to have a loving/friendly relationship without constant demands.

 

[BusynMember]

Phone diet!!!

That's so funny and true!

 

[GoingNorth]

SWOT,

This just hit me right in the face: YOUR son is an addict and YOU are his drug. He reaches for you to make him feel better. When you don't, he becomes abusive because the drug isn't working.

I don't feel he has any use for you other than this. You yourself said you rarely heard from him before the divorce.

Perhaps it is time to quit being his dealer entirely?

 

[blackgnat]

Totally feeling you, SWOT! Difficult Child just called asking for money (dad sent him $15 on Thursday, I sent him $20 on Friday) and when I didn't cave, the whole slanging match started.

Dredging up all manner of things-it's my fault that he did/didn't do something, when was the last time I was there for him on his birthday, Please ma, don't make me steal, you and dad both left me, I will die if I'm out here much longer ... (this is the man who had a rehab lined up last Saturday and chose to leave it.) Got in a fight with someone "Ma if you could see my face right now, you'd know how much I need help". No son, I'm NOT sending you money.

Hung up on me twice, then called again (why did I answer?) to turn the screws. I gave it back to him with both barrels and now I just feel drained. Guilty, wrong, heartless. Kind of the way I think you may be feeling too, SWOT, though I don't want to presume.

Count me in on the phone diet. (sorry if I hijacked your thread-I just relate to that terrible sadness that you expressed, after dealing with the Difficult Child)

 

[BusynMember]

Sometimes I feel like picking up the phone and listening unless it gets bad is the least I can do for my own son.

Gn, I would never 100% cut off a child. I can and have gone low contact but I feel total no contact is overkill for this situation...

To others. He called me twicewbile I was in Chicago. I didn't answer while visiting my daughter but.. He can be vile one day and call and soy d like both I g happened the next.

 

[GoingNorth]

Low contact might be a good idea in general. I wish he would see a psychiatrist and therapist. I think he could benefit both from therapy and the right medications.

The thing is, I don't think you're really helping him more than a momentary "fix". He's really torturing himself, and now his ideas on how to handle this ongoing mess are getting ridiculous. The fact that his lawyer is avoiding him speaks volumes.

What it sounds like is that he's unwilling/unable to settle for anything other than full custody, with his ex-wife having no contact, and that just isn't going to happen. The fact that he got custodial custody is fairly amazing.

And yet, when it comes down to it, it's really all about him. I do wonder how he's going to react when his son starts to become an independent person and has ideas and beliefs that don't go along with dad's.

 

[Childofmine]

SWOT, just catching up here and I hope you had a great Thanksgiving on Friday!

I am so tired of 40 years of either being ignored or, since the divorce, being abused. I have three other kids showing me exactly what a normal, loving parent/child relationship is like. I can't say I don't know.

This really jumped out at me. Think about it. 40 years of having a behavior you can count on, that always wrings you out. When is enough enough?

I love that you hang up when he really starts in. That is a great boundary and I know you use it a lot. Kudos!

I am on a spiritual journey..

Yes you are. You have really learned so much in your life about what is important. You have taught all of us on this forum so much. Thank you.

Sometimes I feel like picking up the phone and listening unless it gets bad is the least I can do for my own son.

I get this. He is your son and you want to at least listen...when perhaps no one else will? Even the lawyer is tired. Can you imagine how your son wears him/her out as well?

I wonder if he didn't have his son to harangue about...would it be something else? With some people, it's always something.

I understand that you don't want to cut off contact. I wouldn't either. But can you expand the boundaries you've set, so that you only answer the phone once every...say...three times? Four times that he calls? Or start with every other time he calls. In other words, create more time, space, distance for yourself. Also, only answer it when you're rested and have time. Another boundary could be saying, when you do pick up the phone, Hey Son, I'm glad to hear from you. Just to let you know I only have five minutes as _________ and I'm going to be tied up. So what's up? Set a timer if you have to. In 5 minutes, get off the phone. No matter what he is saying.

I used to try some of these "tricks" with Difficult Child. They worked. They worked because I would write them down on a piece of paper and stare at that paper during the call. It worked for me because I had contact with him, but on my terms. If I could stick to my own "rules," I could protect myself much better from his bs, AND I was still having that contact that I wanted to have. Our relationship was finally on my terms.

You know SWOT, you are never going to able to satisfy him, in terms of his endless going on about issues. It's always something. Trying to reason and help doesn't work. So...it's just the contact that you want. Have it on your terms for once.

Maybe that 40-year drought will come to an end.

Hugs to you, dear friend.

 

[BusynMember]

GM, it is actually sons ex that tries to cut him out. Always. She moved far away to get him into her school district an hour away. Son fought for son to stay in current school and it's a pretty easy win for him, but she is actually worse than he is and not even nice to my grandson. For example she forced my gentle, shy grandson into activities such as hunting and makes him stay outside alone in the back yard by himself for hours on end because "it's not my fault if you have no friends. Go make some or stand outside alone." She is angry that all his friends are at the school he goes to and wants to prove in court that he has many friends in her area too. But he doesn't and is too timid to rush up to unfamiliar kids. Since he doesn't go to school with him, the other kids ignore him or ask him to stop looking at them.

As for the hunting, he cried and refused to touch a weapon. He told my don he can't hurt an animal and doesn't want to hunt. He told me too. But my son can't tell her what to do with him on her time and it's not considered abuse or against the law. My grandson is crazy about my son. My son is truly and to him. He is the only person that don treats with pure love.


I think son is doing the right thing by fighting for my grandson to stay on the school he has always gone to. Thst us all he is asking for, not additional custody. Missouri is s 50\50 State and he has never tried to get more than that. She has. Not him.

COM, you are so right. 40 years because he has always been this way. Fortunately he can't leave Missouri because he'd never leave his son so hei is only annoying (very) by phone and I don't always answer it. I also work a lot and can't have my phone on me and often I just tell him I was at work if I didn't want to talk.I get off these days as soon as the abuse starts too.

I don't expect him to change. He refuses to get help. Has s million excuses. I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't do anything.

I so look forward to RVing. I am normally so busy that none of my kids can get me often, even the ones I love to hear from. RVing will make it even easier to seriously pull out of his life ad I can say I was at a dead spot.

I hate lying by the way. But this middle age man will not have me around forever. He needs to learn other ways to blow off steam other than telling me. I also can't wait to live the rest of my life and refuse to let him ruin my travels.

COM, you are so wise and so kind. GM, thst you do much for caring. Love to both.