I just need to vent a bit...lol..all those RX sub abuse ads
- Thread starter DammitJanet
- Start date
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
Very, very good point.
I think the problem we're thinking about here is that people ASSUME that if someone is on any medications long-term that they are an addict. Even people who should know better - mother in law, for instance, who has accidentally OD'd on her own pain medications multiple times (and has been hospitalized during medication washes due to "the DTs"), keeps jumping down husband's throat about how he is addicted to his narcotics. It's a fine line - one he will admit that it is tempting to cross at times for relief.
I know that, because of my own history with alcoholics, I was on husband about drinking. And on and on. And then I discovered something, by keeping track of his bottles... He wasn't drinking anywhere near what I thought he was.
I think the problem we're thinking about here is that people ASSUME that if someone is on any medications long-term that they are an addict. Even people who should know better - mother in law, for instance, who has accidentally OD'd on her own pain medications multiple times (and has been hospitalized during medication washes due to "the DTs"), keeps jumping down husband's throat about how he is addicted to his narcotics. It's a fine line - one he will admit that it is tempting to cross at times for relief.
I know that, because of my own history with alcoholics, I was on husband about drinking. And on and on. And then I discovered something, by keeping track of his bottles... He wasn't drinking anywhere near what I thought he was.
witzend
Well-Known Member
And the only reason that some of our cold medicines are like that is because they are a common ingredient in Meth. It's not because they're some great high on their own and people get addicted to them.
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
Nancy, I think (witz please correct me if I am wrong) that they are a more potent high when used to make meth, than on their own.
I know Onyxx used to down cold medications like M&Ms to get high. "Triple Cs" is what they call it. We called it "Robotripping" from Robitussin - the dexthromorphan is pretty potent.
I know Onyxx used to down cold medications like M&Ms to get high. "Triple Cs" is what they call it. We called it "Robotripping" from Robitussin - the dexthromorphan is pretty potent.
I asked because we have at least two parents posting on the SA forum currently whose difficult child's are abusing cold medications and addicted to them right now. These kids usually start out this way and go on to harder drugs. There is good reason these drugs are behind the counter. Once when difficult child was in high school I was in our grocery store and two of her friends were at the cold medicine counter buying several bottles of robitussin (this was before they put them behind the counter). I asked them what they were doing with so many bottles and they laughed, made a fake cough, and said they had a cough. I went up to the manager and alerted them and well they didn't get to buy their cold medications...I'm sure they just went to another store where there wasn't a drug police crazy mom to interfere with their high. People who use it recreationally will tell you it's very easy to get high on Robitussin and it can also be very dangerous.
Nancy
Nancy
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
Nancy - I'm glad you alerted that manager. One manager can make a small difference - but a difference nonetheless.
When I take any kind of cough medications, half a dose can throw me for a loop. Not only that, but they also can contain alcohol.
The only issue with the stuff being behind the counter is that the kids just wait for a shift change and buy more.
At one point, I found lots of empty bottles and packets that I know I didn't buy...
When I take any kind of cough medications, half a dose can throw me for a loop. Not only that, but they also can contain alcohol.
The only issue with the stuff being behind the counter is that the kids just wait for a shift change and buy more.
At one point, I found lots of empty bottles and packets that I know I didn't buy...
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
That policy also ticks me off. I mean exactly how many packets of the old fashioned Sudafed does it take to make Meth? It has to be more than a 24 pack or even the 100 tablet bottle we used to buy that was so cheap and would last at least a year. That stuff worked wonders and the new stuff they replaced it with is garbage. Doesnt work worth a darn. I refuse to buy it. I will go up to the pharmacy counter and show my ID like Im some drug seeking addict and sign for it and get told I cant buy anymore at any other pharmacy for X amount of time. Sheesh. Well one night I went in to buy some Sudafed and some Claritan D but they wouldnt let me because...oh my gosh...the D in the Claritan stood for Sudafed. And dont you know I couldnt buy my 24 pack of Sudafed and the 24 pack of Claritan on the same day. Now get how stupid this was. I was there at 11:30pm so they let me stand there and buy one of them at 11:30 and the other one at 12:05! 2 different days. What a crock.
I wouldnt know how to make meth if I tried and I wouldnt know how to separate it from the Claritan to begin with. Stupid, stupid stupid.
If I want to really damage myself, I can take a bottle of tylenol and kill my liver. Or go into the grocery store and buy bottles of vanilla. Thats almost 80 proof.
I wouldnt know how to make meth if I tried and I wouldnt know how to separate it from the Claritan to begin with. Stupid, stupid stupid.
If I want to really damage myself, I can take a bottle of tylenol and kill my liver. Or go into the grocery store and buy bottles of vanilla. Thats almost 80 proof.
Like I say anything to protect our kids from addicting OTC medications is fine with me. I have nothing to hide. There are meth labs popping up all over and you don't need a wheelbarrel of the stuff to do it. ur city just held a meetign to show residents what to look for in meth labs. People are cooking the stuff as they walk down the street. It's being made in nursing homes and behind apt buildings. I don't know how to make meth either but evidently a lotof people do and how are they suppose to know by looking at someone that they are going to use it illegally. I get that I'm hyper sensitive to illegal drug use but I just don't understand why people get so upset about this.
Nancy
Nancy
Janet... that's one of the reasons our family uses ONE pharmacy only. They know us. We have a LONG history of needing controlled substances - rx or otc. And a LONG history of no issues. Stable medical team. Yada yada yada. And... we have no issues getting stuff. But even here - where the "system" isn't as tight as where you are - they are closing down "easy" access. If you are known and have a good history, they don't give you hassle... and otherwise, they have to get picky.
And no, they don't need gallons of the stuff to make meth.
And no, they don't need gallons of the stuff to make meth.
I don't object to the sudafed being behind the counter to be signed for because it has made a HUGE difference in the meth problem in my state. Here it is all controlled by a database controlled by the state and you have a quota per month and after that it tells the pharmacist that you cannot buy it.
Sadly, being able to only get smaller amts of sudafed means that the meth labs are smaller. They don't make as much, but they can be ANYWHERE. I posted a few months ago about the trunk labs - people are making meth in soda bottles - 20 oz to 2 liter size - and driving around with them in their trunk as it processes, I guess to mix it up? Then they take what they can use and leave the rest out in the street or a parking lot for the rest of us to be poisoned by. They are finding people who are burned or made very sick by this residue, which looks like dirty or muddy water in the bottle.
People are making these small batches of meth pretty much everywhere, including in Walmart bathrooms.
by the way, do people use the walmart fitting rooms to sell drugs in your towns? Apparently it is a problem here - they do the deals in the fitting rooms. I found out when I found several pills on the floor of the fitting room awhile back. I had a manager come and get them because you just cannot have pills lying around for kids to get into, and the manager said it is becoming quite a problem!
Sadly, being able to only get smaller amts of sudafed means that the meth labs are smaller. They don't make as much, but they can be ANYWHERE. I posted a few months ago about the trunk labs - people are making meth in soda bottles - 20 oz to 2 liter size - and driving around with them in their trunk as it processes, I guess to mix it up? Then they take what they can use and leave the rest out in the street or a parking lot for the rest of us to be poisoned by. They are finding people who are burned or made very sick by this residue, which looks like dirty or muddy water in the bottle.
People are making these small batches of meth pretty much everywhere, including in Walmart bathrooms.
by the way, do people use the walmart fitting rooms to sell drugs in your towns? Apparently it is a problem here - they do the deals in the fitting rooms. I found out when I found several pills on the floor of the fitting room awhile back. I had a manager come and get them because you just cannot have pills lying around for kids to get into, and the manager said it is becoming quite a problem!
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Well it ticked me off because I was getting the sudafed for me and the allergy medications for Tony.
witzend
Well-Known Member
They keep cold medicine - particularly Sudafed and it's generics - behind the counter because they are a primary ingredient in Meth making. In Oregon they were stolen off the shelf as quickly as they could put them out.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Nancy,, i suppose you are directing that comment at me. I have not looked back to see what I said. It may have been susie though but also Marg could weigh in here. The research clearly shows that chronic pain patients do not any sort of high or addiction to long term use of pain medication. There is a major difference between addiction and dependence on something. We would not be having this conversation about thyroid medications, insulin, O2, blood pressure medications or any other medications that doctors have to adjust from time to time as a patients body changes its need for those certain medications. The most obvious is thyroid and insulin. Most people dont take the same dose of insulin every day. It depends on what their readings are. That is much the same thing for pain patients.
I dont think I have ever gotten a high from my pain medications. I have felt bad from one or two and immediately reported back that I thought it was the wrong medication for me and asked for something lower for me. I refuse to take anything that will make me feel not myself. I am much more at risk of that from my psychiatric medications though. The combo I took for the H Pylori was absolutely horrible and made me feel like I was in some sort of a fog and they were antibiotics.
I dont think I have ever gotten a high from my pain medications. I have felt bad from one or two and immediately reported back that I thought it was the wrong medication for me and asked for something lower for me. I refuse to take anything that will make me feel not myself. I am much more at risk of that from my psychiatric medications though. The combo I took for the H Pylori was absolutely horrible and made me feel like I was in some sort of a fog and they were antibiotics.
Like most things, how OTC drugs like allergy stuff affects one person is very different from how it affects another. Those who really need it and for whom it actually works as intended, probably don't get the "buzz" effect. On the other hand, those who abuse these medications aren't exactly taking "according to directions" either, which is part of what produces the "buzz". Pain medications are the same way.
Mattsmom277
Active Member
This topic in general is such a relevant one in this age of prescription drug abuse. We just didn't have this level of medication abuse back in the day. My town has a crisis going on. Crime has skyrocketed. As have overdoses that more frequently have led to death. It's frightening in our community here. And it's getting worse. Not better. It is a major discussion topic among those living here since it has gotten so out of hand.
Having said that, I'm sick to death of having to suffer day in and day out simply because even intelligent and well educated people here often hear "prescription pain relief" and they jump to "addiction" theory and/or assumptions. Also far too few people here (doctors included!), are failing to differentiate between addiction in drug seekers vs dependent for pain relief and quality of life. So much research shows the importance of pain control on quality of life and disability levels. However more and more barriers are put into place, leading to destruction of lives of chronic sufferers, due to lack of education on the subject. And biased thinking. And unfounded fears.
I get entirely why regulations have tightened. Saving lives of addicts is something we need more access to support with. However!!!!!! Just try having chronic and debilitating pain that destroys your day to day living, functionality, ability to hold a job and be self supporting, ability to parent with the energy and physicality that requires, even marriages where a partner cannot actively participate in normal functions of living and relationships. The current trend in prescribing, here anyhow, assumes everyone drug seeks for getting high purposes. Heck just try to attend an ER when you are in such pain you contemplate ending your own life. Is it medication seeking? Darn tooting is! But not medication seeking for high. medication seeking for need and for sanity is a different kettle of fish. Yet here, the addiction issues are outweighing common sense and leaving thousands of lives in ruins.
I no longer have remissions and flares of MS. I hurt every single day. In so many areas of the body that it's pointless to explain "where it hurts". Suffice to say my eyeballs tend to go pain free. Beyond that? Name the location and I can describe how pain in that region affects me.
It is impossible to obtain a long term strategy for medical relief on a day to say basis in order that I can lead a normal life. Heck just a improved life is something i would settle for. Although I shouldn't have to settle. I deserve functionality and relief. Yet I haven't bothered with doctors for several years. It seems perfectly logical to docs these days to take chronic illness patients and happily prescribe symptom based medications. At one point in had nine different medications for individual symptoms. They totaled over forty pills per day. Every day. And made me so ill. While being completely ineffective. Thereby, completely useless. Yet the same doctors putting me on strong medications in awful combinations for symptom management, get all sketched out about addressing properly the desperate need for pain control in order to function at life. I eventually tossed the medication cocktails and actually am improved in that I don't have the many many many side effects any longer. Meanwhile, I miss normal living. I miss pain at a 7 or 8 on a pain of 1-10 scale. Sad right? I'm off the chart. Every single minute of every singe day.
Doctors should darn well know as DO better than lumping patients together. One persons medication seeking can be a tragic addiction. Another persons medication seeking can be life preserving and life altering.
Far too many people such as myself are living a non life because of inability for others to see both sides of this serious issue. I want to see proper handling of addicts because I'm tired of the sad news headlines. I also want to see medical minds stop cow towing to public misunderstanding for the millions of chronic pain suffers.
A bit of irony: I get scolded for daily use of acetaminophen (by oharmacist) because even using at doses not exceeding recommendations, it isn't good for a body daily for years. So I'm scolded, embarassed and lectured for daily use of stupid Tylenol. Yet desperately need narcotic type pain relief and cannot access it. I get treated just as much like a problem with getting OTC Tylenol as addicts scoring heavy narcotics prescriptions. If I had proper pain relief, I'd just shrug off those too ignorant to know the science behind good pain control. That would be a luxury to me believe it or not.
I guess I'm just saying drug addicts latched on to these medications as drugs of choice. It had nothing to do however with properly prescribed pain control for those who require it. But we have stopped using common sense and ability to discern between two completely separate distinct issues. Funny the addicts and doctor shop and get scripts. But be a patient with a pain inducing disease who sees their own doctor only and doesn't doctor shop? One ends up having to suffer. And better suffer silently. Because to express this upset at neglect of a serious medical need? Automatic flagging on files that you "drug seek". So get Ina. Car wreck? No medications for that patient. Because they are treated like seeking addicts.
Off my soap box. This one hits too close to home.
Having said that, I'm sick to death of having to suffer day in and day out simply because even intelligent and well educated people here often hear "prescription pain relief" and they jump to "addiction" theory and/or assumptions. Also far too few people here (doctors included!), are failing to differentiate between addiction in drug seekers vs dependent for pain relief and quality of life. So much research shows the importance of pain control on quality of life and disability levels. However more and more barriers are put into place, leading to destruction of lives of chronic sufferers, due to lack of education on the subject. And biased thinking. And unfounded fears.
I get entirely why regulations have tightened. Saving lives of addicts is something we need more access to support with. However!!!!!! Just try having chronic and debilitating pain that destroys your day to day living, functionality, ability to hold a job and be self supporting, ability to parent with the energy and physicality that requires, even marriages where a partner cannot actively participate in normal functions of living and relationships. The current trend in prescribing, here anyhow, assumes everyone drug seeks for getting high purposes. Heck just try to attend an ER when you are in such pain you contemplate ending your own life. Is it medication seeking? Darn tooting is! But not medication seeking for high. medication seeking for need and for sanity is a different kettle of fish. Yet here, the addiction issues are outweighing common sense and leaving thousands of lives in ruins.
I no longer have remissions and flares of MS. I hurt every single day. In so many areas of the body that it's pointless to explain "where it hurts". Suffice to say my eyeballs tend to go pain free. Beyond that? Name the location and I can describe how pain in that region affects me.
It is impossible to obtain a long term strategy for medical relief on a day to say basis in order that I can lead a normal life. Heck just a improved life is something i would settle for. Although I shouldn't have to settle. I deserve functionality and relief. Yet I haven't bothered with doctors for several years. It seems perfectly logical to docs these days to take chronic illness patients and happily prescribe symptom based medications. At one point in had nine different medications for individual symptoms. They totaled over forty pills per day. Every day. And made me so ill. While being completely ineffective. Thereby, completely useless. Yet the same doctors putting me on strong medications in awful combinations for symptom management, get all sketched out about addressing properly the desperate need for pain control in order to function at life. I eventually tossed the medication cocktails and actually am improved in that I don't have the many many many side effects any longer. Meanwhile, I miss normal living. I miss pain at a 7 or 8 on a pain of 1-10 scale. Sad right? I'm off the chart. Every single minute of every singe day.
Doctors should darn well know as DO better than lumping patients together. One persons medication seeking can be a tragic addiction. Another persons medication seeking can be life preserving and life altering.
Far too many people such as myself are living a non life because of inability for others to see both sides of this serious issue. I want to see proper handling of addicts because I'm tired of the sad news headlines. I also want to see medical minds stop cow towing to public misunderstanding for the millions of chronic pain suffers.
A bit of irony: I get scolded for daily use of acetaminophen (by oharmacist) because even using at doses not exceeding recommendations, it isn't good for a body daily for years. So I'm scolded, embarassed and lectured for daily use of stupid Tylenol. Yet desperately need narcotic type pain relief and cannot access it. I get treated just as much like a problem with getting OTC Tylenol as addicts scoring heavy narcotics prescriptions. If I had proper pain relief, I'd just shrug off those too ignorant to know the science behind good pain control. That would be a luxury to me believe it or not.
I guess I'm just saying drug addicts latched on to these medications as drugs of choice. It had nothing to do however with properly prescribed pain control for those who require it. But we have stopped using common sense and ability to discern between two completely separate distinct issues. Funny the addicts and doctor shop and get scripts. But be a patient with a pain inducing disease who sees their own doctor only and doesn't doctor shop? One ends up having to suffer. And better suffer silently. Because to express this upset at neglect of a serious medical need? Automatic flagging on files that you "drug seek". So get Ina. Car wreck? No medications for that patient. Because they are treated like seeking addicts.
Off my soap box. This one hits too close to home.
Janet I was not directing my comments to you. I was directing them at this quote.
Mattsmom I agree with you 100%.
Nancy
Rx drug abuse is just one more way for addicts to rob us ordinary people, I guess. They steal our money and our stuff to buy drugs, and then mess up the system so badly trying to prevent them from having access that the rest of us can't get what we actually need.
Not sure though how much is the addict-effect and how much is a messed-up medical system... probably both.
Not sure though how much is the addict-effect and how much is a messed-up medical system... probably both.
