I raised him right, right? Self blame and the pursuit of happiness.

[Lil]

I don't understand, on the one hand you see this quite clearly, that the bio-dad's DNA is active with your son. On the other, you seem to be exasperated by what he does with that DNA. Is it that you are having a hard time coming to terms with what might be a life time sentence and you really won't have any say in how your child turns out?

It's actually very simple. I am NOT my DNA. My son is NOT his DNA. Just because you have a tendency toward something, does not mean you have to fall victim to it. I don't have (much) a say in how my child turns out. But HE DOES!

He can CHOOSE to be an addict or to abstain from drugs. He can CHOOSE to be a liar or to be truthful. He can CHOOSE to steal or to be honest. He can CHOOSE to be lazy or to work.

To say otherwise is to say, "My dad is an alcoholic, so I'm screwed. I'm going to be a drunk." or "Well, I have my dad's genes and he was a liar and a thief, so I'm going to lie and steal, nothing I can do about it."

Genetic predispositions aren't prophecy.

If your family history has a tendency toward skin cancer, you can wear sunscreen and hats and prevent it. If your family history has breast cancer, you can get a preventative mastectomy.

Even if you've fallen victim to your genes, you can stop. My best friend's father was an alcoholic. She herself ended up in rehab. She's now been sober for years. Why? Because she CHOSE to not ruin her life. My mother was morbidly obese. I am too. I could blame it on my genes and the fact is they probably had a lot to do with it...but if I ate salad instead of burgers and worked out every day instead of sitting on my butt I wouldn't be the size I am. It might be a struggle, but I could overcome it.

So yes. I am exasperated with what he does with his DNA - because he doesn't HAVE to. He doesn't suffer from kleptomania - he's lazy and entitled and PERFECTLY CAPABLE of NOT stealing.

My daughter took the IQ and the good manners I gave her and used them to manipulate/control people.

And this should exasperate you too! Perhaps she has a mental illness and simply can't help herself. But maybe she's just chosen to be a bad person. I can't speak to your daughter, having not met her. I've met my son. He has a choice.

 

[2much2recover]

What I am saying to you Lil, is at some point you may have to come to and understanding for your emotional and mental health of understanding because of his DNA - he may be lacking that desire to change as well. It is this saying: I can teach it to you but I can't do it for you. I so see/hear the hurt in you when we discuss these issues so I understand that you may not be ready to understand that what you want may not happen (for him to want to change). My daughter is years older at age 40. For you, I dearly hope he sees the light and is able to change because I see how much this is both hurting you and how hard you are fighting to save your son. I sincerely hope you get a happy outcome. I do know what is wrong with my child and I wouldn't wish it on anybody; but the pain of not knowing was worse than the final, knowing and then acceptance of she is what she is, making for a better life for me. Knowing and accepting I can't change anybody is actually freeing. For me, it's back to detachment I guess.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, wonderful post full of insight and truth.

I know because my own DNA is horrible and I could have been horrible. I had it in me, but I didn't want to be horrible so I worked very hard to fight that part of my DNA. I wasn't all bad...and I didn't want to react to life the way I was wired to do so and I didn't mind being taught how other people, who seemed to cope better, responded to things that I could not seem to get right.

But, but, but, but but....2 Much is also right, especially in her latest post. Very right.

DNA is huge inside of us. If you tried to change the very essence of who you are and how you react, it would be very, very hard for you as it was for me. It CAN BE DONE! But it requires two very important elements. The first is a very strong understanding that you are different and not in a good way. This self-awareness is essential and not everybody has it. The second huge issue is that you have to not only want to change how you react to your enviornment, but to be eager and willing to work on it as if you were in college learning a form of life changing wisdom. The classes are all very hard. You have to believe what you hear and study on your own when you are not in "school". In other words, DNA is not written in stone. We can all decide to change our lives, dig into the higher part of ourselves, and then learn how to do it. But some people either have no insight into themselves or no real desire to change. It is so much easier to stay the same.

Years later, I am now tottaly wired differently, especially emotionally. My go-to reaction is no longer impulsive, anger, judgment or black-and-white thinking (a very destructive way of thinking). But the spoils came from the toils (haha...I'm a poet and didn't know it).

Then there are the ??? kids, the ones who came from horrible DNA and are good people. Sonic is one. His birthmother was a drug addict and probably a prostitute who left him in the hospital. His father probably lived a similar life. Now...my way of looking at this is that the extreme level of poverty that they lived in caused many people to resort to this lifestyle and tat she may well have been as sweet as Sonic if she had grown up in our enviornment. Bio. dad too. Circumstances that are difficult can bring out the worst in us and hide the best. Nothing is simple about the human condition.

However...our little darlings grew up mostly privledged and pampered and do have personality problems that were most likely inherited and are deeply ingrained in their thick skulls, which is why talking to them sensibly doesn't work. And the vast majority of them would rather blame everyone else and get the freebies than change, especially if it means admitting they have an intristic problem or that it is their fault, not our fault.

I do think DNA is huge to overcome. I also know it can happen, but it is not easy, fast, or going to happen just because our darlings go to rehab or see a therapist. It takes a true commitment and a level of self-awareness that some of our darlings will never have.

Complicated!!!!!

 

[Lil]

I agree with you MWM and I understand perfectly that he may not ever want to change. Maybe things will continue as they are. Maybe they'll get worse. Maybe, when he's 21 or 25 or some other age older than he is today, I may finally accept that he does not have any desire to change. But I doubt I will ever believe that he CAN'T. To believe otherwise is to simply write him off as this useless person he is now.

 

[Jabberwockey]

To believe otherwise is to simply write him off as this useless person he is now

I don't think anyone is saying this either. Just to be ready for the possibility that he won't ever choose to change.

Excellent quote MWM! The spoils came from the toils! I'll have to remember that one!

 

[Nikimoto]

I once told somebody while talking about Evan that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't lead a donkey anywhere. So we started using carrots. Pretty soon even that fell by the wayside, as he wanted his carrots served to him on a silver platter, instead of earning any thing for any reason.
The same as some other kids being discussed here, charismatic as Jim Jones, dishonest, and theiving. One petty example, which still pisses me off just thinking about it, is drumsticks. We bought a huge box of drumstick ice creams at costco, and a smaller box of lil drums at a grocery for the baby sibling, with the adamant rule that these were NOT for Evan, not even one. But he could have a regular one when his dad or myself offered him one. But he is obtuse and entitled, so as the large box quickly dwindled, I asked if he'd been taking without asking, and he glibly said yes, he just wanted them. He even left the wrappers in his closet thought we have to treat four times a year for bugs in Hawaii. Soon after that, thought the little kids only had one each lil drums, the entire box was emptied, and left in the freezer. I was livid like I had not been in a long time that he stole from the babies, and this before he was caught in their cash jar. I soon bought locks for the pantry freezer, front fridge n freezer, and all the pantry cupboards due his help himself glutonny habit. Also, this was after we caught him red handed eating an entire costco coolwhip, then the other three we had stored in that freezer were also gone when we had company drop in and I couldn't even fix a fruit salad.
Then the lies began to escalate that we did not allow him to eat.
That skinny little ass !

 

[Nikimoto]

Just curious, since we are adults here, why are the strong words of emotional color being censored? It amuses me slightly, but I mean what I say.

 

[Nikimoto]

Wish I had thought of this with my older children, but didn't so oh well. After reviewing many articles over the past couple decades plus on children and lying, I've come to understand it is not only normal but an essential developmental tool for building character. Armed with this knowledge, once my pixy child began to openly lie at the beginning of 1st grade, I devised a strategy to cue her. We have a "lying time" where she must tell me all of her lies. This has developed into snack time after school, and we spend the time sharing laughs and discussing the difference between facts and fiction. She is also writing a fiction story, so she enjoys this. It does not prevent typical naughty lying, but she now knows I will cue her and she has to fess up or be punished just for the lie.
Also, on grown kids peeing the bed, just brought back one of my worst memories from being a narcotics investigator in the Army....one young soldier who failed the ua had to face a room search. While my partner and I discovered many illegal and disturbing things in his barracks room, (such as stealing and crushing the percosets of his roomie with the broken foot), the backpack full of pissed sheets was by far the most upsetting.

 

[Lil]

Also, this was after we caught him red handed eating an entire costco coolwhip, then the other three we had stored in that freezer were also gone when we had company drop in and I couldn't even fix a fruit salad.

This sounds like munchies to me.

 

[BusynMember]

Just curious, since we are adults here, why are the strong words of emotional color being censored? It amuses me slightly, but I mean what I say.

I would say, adults or not, some people find certain things offensive. If we have no censorship then where do we draw the line? Do we allow women to be referred to as that nasty four letter word that my son used to call me?

I think it's reasonable for the person who owns the board to set standards of how we can chat to one another. Almost all forums have rules like this. If I want to hear lots of cussing and foul language, I can call my son and get him mad...lolol!

 

[Nikimoto]

I understand why censorship exists, just feel muffled instead of protected. Just my opinion, but if I use a fine kitchen knife to create a masterpiece for dinner, and someone else comes in and uses that same fine knife to destroy my curtains it's still just a knife. Words are just words. I can't tolerate verbal abuse, but the same words can be reused in mature humor.

Hmmm....Lil, I never let that thought sink in until now. Munchies is the only thing that makes sense. He was always harping about food, spiraling backwards even pretending he had never been taught to cook or fix a loaf of bread, it's how we raised him. His behavior became so deranged he was telling school personnel and cops we didn't let him eat. I would argue with him over his tiny half sandwich he fixed for school lunch, as if his hunger were a ruse. He would of course come home and become demanding and stupid for ice cream, candy, straight sugar. Our counselor told me he believed Evan was using sugars to get high, like the Monster lawsuits that had been cropping up. We switched to agave, and I reminded him several times to not only pack a much larger lunch, but to eat a high carb after school snack. I left in an unlocked cupboard, oatmeal, rice, potatoes, ramen, and the sandwich bread. 5 huge choices for filling snacks, but he had to lie and argue, and argue about his lies. Anything to pick a fight. Any fight. All the fights. Ug.
Even several months after he left, while getting out a couple wine glasses for nice peaceful dinner, I found a rotten can of ready whip in the china cupboard. Just gross, but I figured we could use the laugh.
In fact, any one of his arguments on its own is laughable if it weren't raging and harassing on the outset. It has been helpful for my husband and I to revisit some of these episodes and lift the filter of belligerence away and reconstruct his arguments, they were simply comical. On the other hand, it worries me that he can't maintain a conversation or mature debate to save his life.

 

[mjhawks]

One of the best days in this journey with DQ was when her therapist told me "It's not your fault. You did everything right." I think I teared up. What a relief.

As parents to these kids, we always start with ourselves. Asking where we went wrong. What could we do differently. Extended family doesn't help when they only see these kids during the holidays. A couple of days out of the year, does not make you an expert on DQ. Trust that. You have to observe her, in her natural environment, and start to understand that she is manipulating every situation. They accuse you of simply being mean to the child and you almost believe them.

My sister-in-law got a taste of DQ over christmas. Taking her for a spa day. DQ lied and said she was getting her eyebrows waxed. When in reality, she got a Brazilian, AT 15!!!! (For the boy she met online who was going to come sneak her out of the house so they could go have sex in the woods.) And Sister-in-law had to pay for it.

We are human. We deserve to live in a happy peaceful home. Our other children did nothing to deserve living in this nightmare. The sooner we come to realize this, the easier it is to deal with the problem head on.

 

[2much2recover]

When in reality, she got a Brazilian, AT 15!!!!

Well you can laugh your head off when she gets the "itchies" when it starts to grow back out again. You do have her on a long term birth control??

 

[mjhawks]

She is on the pill. I give it to her daily, as with all of her medications.

 

[2much2recover]

There are newer medications like injections and IUD's that can last for 3 years or longer - just so you know.

 

[Echolette]

I don't really try to track the traits. I think different traits are expressed differently according to experience and personality. I am persistent. In another form that could be stubborn. My ex is creative..he happens to use that for good. Our son uses it for bad. Who knows who inherited what from whom? I don't think we can understand minds so different from our own.

 

[Nikimoto]

Hte bottom line is Evan is lazy. I don't accuse all our kids of being lazy, but knowing how smart Evan is, and how he had every opportunity I never had, and how he loved to manipulate, lie and steal rather than really earn his own reputation, he is clearly one of the lazy ones. He used to argue his I.Q. Was higher than mine, that could very well be true, and he was so specifically talented in certain areas, yes, could be true. I told it's also true that the jails and prisons are chock full of people who have high I.Q.s, loads of talent, and poor work habits. Poor attitudes towards others. His mindset was that work is for other people. Ya? Then so is my money, son.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I told it's also true that the jails and prisons are chock full of people who have high I.Q.s, loads of talent, and poor work habits. Poor attitudes towards others.

Having worked in Corrections for going on 23 years, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is an understatement.

 

[Nikimoto]

Jabber, thank you. Our kids need to tour these facilities, see and meet these criminals, feel the immense humanity of people who are in criminal incarceration and realize how much we all have in common with them. It's such a very fine line. I was not a police officer for nearly as many years, but don't seem to realize their parents are just not necessarily naíve about life and consequences. At 18, Evan is just stepping into reality. It's his for the taking.

 

[BusynMember]

Nik, have you ever seen "Scared Straight?" You'd think that every kid that walked in there would be so terrified, the kid would never even go through a yellow light for fear of ending up in prison with lifers. I mean, I know I'd be traumatized forever. But do they? I hear that there are very mixed results with some doing better right afterward then reverting back, some not changing, and some changing. I don't know the percentages, but, really. How can you be that close to a cold blooded murderer and not think really hard about having to do hard time with somebody who has no reason not to kill YOU too.

I swear, our differently wired adult darlings really do not retain their bad experiences for long or else maybe they don't get scared easily. Who knows????