I'm a failure

[AppleCori]

Control isn't possible with him here. He's in control and he knows it. The only control is the police physically removing him. The mental health system here in California is a joke. They 5150'd him this last time and he was home before we got home that night from my inlaws house where we had gone after the altercation. So literally probably 2 hours. So now we'll get a bill for over $1,000 for an ambulance ride Where they literally took him to a hospital 20 minutes away then immediately released him. It's ridiculous and heartbreaking and maddening all in one

I know but he's on our plan and has no way to pay it. It's all so dumb

This has come up many times before, and I don't think you are responsible for another adult's unpaid bills, even if they are on your plan.

If you don't rescue him, maybe he will get a job to pay, or suffer the consequences.

 

[Lil]

They 5150'd him this last time and he was home before we got home that night from my inlaws house where we had gone after the altercation. So literally probably 2 hours. So now we'll get a bill for over $1,000 for an ambulance ride Where they literally took him to a hospital 20 minutes away then immediately released him.

That's horrible. I'm not sure what it's called in our state, but the last time the police came to our house (thankfully, the only time, though we called twice and cancelled once) he was arrested because of a warrant on a misdemeanor - but the police suggested we do a psychiatric hold on him. I know that our police here will hold them until they can be admitted to a hospital and I think the hold is at least 24 to 48 hours. Jabber might know for sure. But they will put a hold on someone until they are fully evaluated.

I agree, I don't think you have to pay anything yourself over the insurance...but it could depend on the policy and the laws of your state.

For the record, if our son were ever to use the C word face to face with his mom he wouldn't have to worry about what I would do to him. One time he made the mistake of saying to his mom "Why are you being such an effing B*tch about this?!" and she went absolutely ballistic on him.

Jabber's not wrong. If our son ever called me the C word, I'd likely be the one arrested because he would pick himself up off the floor. I'm not a small woman, nearly 5'10" and I have nearly 100 lbs on our skinny son. I could and would knock him flat. If he'd have been closer when he asked me why I was being a b+++h, I'd have slapped his face. As it was he had time to duck. (I haven't ever actually hit my son...but I would.)

Sadly, most women aren't bigger and tougher than their sons and don't have the option of smacking them for their language without getting hurt. I don't believe our son would ever hit me, even if I did smack him - but that's him.

 

[Lucyxyz]

That's horrible. I'm not sure what it's called in our state, but the last time the police came to our house (thankfully, the only time, though we called twice and cancelled once) he was arrested because of a warrant on a misdemeanor - but the police suggested we do a psychiatric hold on him. I know that our police here will hold them until they can be admitted to a hospital and I think the hold is at least 24 to 48 hours. Jabber might know for sure. But they will put a hold on someone until they are fully evaluated.

I agree, I don't think you have to pay anything yourself over the insurance...but it could depend on the policy and the laws of your state.



Jabber's not wrong. If our son ever called me the C word, I'd likely be the one arrested because he would pick himself up off the floor. I'm not a small woman, nearly 5'10" and I have nearly 100 lbs on our skinny son. I could and would knock him flat. If he'd have been closer when he asked me why I was being a b+++h, I'd have slapped his face. As it was he had time to duck. (I haven't ever actually hit my son...but I would.)

Sadly, most women aren't bigger and tougher than their sons and don't have the option of smacking them for their language without getting hurt.

That's me. He's bigger and stronger and i have no doubt wouldn't hesitate to strike me

 

[RN0441]

You poor thing!

We were on the roller coaster ourselves for five years. Our son would not use for long periods of time and our home was calm BUT he would not work or go to college. When he did he would begin using and the process would all start over. It had to end. His actions were ruling our life. He was in charge.

My husband wanted him out and I was too afraid. He was never violent or said mean things to us. That would have made it all happen sooner. But he did steal etc. from us, lie.

I would see a therapist together with a plan on how to rectify the situation. We saw an addiction specialist together. We were desperate for a change. He told us to tell our son rehab or you're out. He had been to rehab many times before with no success so I felt that was not an option but we did it. He chose rehab (he literally had no friends) and after that we shipped him down to Florida for sober living and follow up. Figured if he ended up homeless due to his actions, he would not freeze. Yes that's the real reason.

He has been gone since March and we are so happy and God I wish we had done it sooner. Is he doing great? No. He's doing better than he did here though. As you can see by my signature it's all been a struggle but he is now working 30 hours per week and just signed up today for one college class starting on Monday. He feels like we sent him off to "fend for himself". Yes we did and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I told him that someday he will thank us. He's still very immature and a total pain in the ass but our lives are calm. He has to figure this out. Sink or swim.

I have hated my son before so don't feel guilty about that. I don't. You are a wonderful mother or you would not be here. I think we feel hate to protect ourselves. It isn't real. It's from all the years of the suffering they inflict on us. It's normal.

Keep posting. There is a wealth of knowledge here. We have been through it.

 

[Lil]

That's me. He's bigger and stronger and i have no doubt wouldn't hesitate to strike me

I truly don't think our son ever would. I smacked him on the back of the head once when he slammed a door in a tantrum and he whirled around on me, nose to nose, fists clenched, and I simple glared right in his eyes and said, "Don't. You. DARE!" He backed down. But in your case, I would be scared to death.

I'm just so sorry. Without your husband's support, there is so little you can do except go to counseling and try to get some peace that way.

 

[Jabberwockey]

They've gotten physical numerous times. They've bloodied each other but no actual punches are thrown. Mostly my husband working to restrain him.

I don't understand how they've bloodied each other without throwing punches? Eh, its irrelevant. The point is that your son is a threat in your house and needs to be removed. You stated earlier that you hide the kitchen knives and lock your bedroom door out of fear. We've had people suggest we lock our bedroom door when our son was stealing from us. My response was that I work in a prison, I refuse to live in one. Even if I didn't work in one I'd still refuse. If it ever got that bad for us, we may as well move out and let him have the house.

(thankfully, the only time, though we called twice and cancelled once)

Had forgot about the cancelled one, so three times and the incident with the police there was the second.

I don't believe our son would ever hit me, even if I did smack him - but that's him.

Our son also knows that if he ever laid a hand on you I'd beat the ever loving crap out of him and it would be a VERY long time before he was allowed in our house again even for dinner.

That's me. He's bigger and stronger and i have no doubt wouldn't hesitate to strike me

You shouldn't have to live in fear in your own home. Is your husband aware that you fear and believe that your son would hit you? Honestly, that's the worst part of him actually being in our house for me. Even when he makes Lil cry I have to fight the urge to box his ears. Yes, I was raised old fashioned. You make my wife hurt, I make you hurt worse. You need to have a serious sit down with your husband and then start the eviction process. And next time he threatens you, call the police, have him arrested, and have a restraining order put in place. Document, document, document.

 

[Lucyxyz]

I don't understand how they've bloodied each other without throwing punches? Eh, its irrelevant. The point is that your son is a threat in your house and needs to be removed. You stated earlier that you hide the kitchen knives and lock your bedroom door out of fear. We've had people suggest we lock our bedroom door when our son was stealing from us. My response was that I work in a prison, I refuse to live in one. Even if I didn't work in one I'd still refuse. If it ever got that bad for us, we may as well move out and let him have the house.



Had forgot about the cancelled one, so three times and the incident with the police there was the second.



Our son also knows that if he ever laid a hand on you I'd beat the ever loving crap out of him and it would be a VERY long time before he was allowed in our house again even for dinner.



You shouldn't have to live in fear in your own home. Is your husband aware that you fear and believe that your son would hit you? Honestly, that's the worst part of him actually being in our house for me. Even when he makes Lil cry I have to fight the urge to box his ears. Yes, I was raised old fashioned. You make my wife hurt, I make you hurt worse. You need to have a serious sit down with your husband and then start the eviction process. And next time he threatens you, call the police, have him arrested, and have a restraining order put in place. Document, document, document.

You're not saying anything I haven't said a thousand times. And no offense but until you've lived in MY house with MY son you don't know what our lives are like. So it's easy to say what you'd do, I've said the same.

And yes you can bloody someone without throwing punches, repeatedly unfortunately.

I agree I should not have to live in fear. It sucks and I've been helpless long enough. Counseling will help me figure it all out and hopefully make whatever changes are needed. Right now it's the grief of a life lost. Both mine (as a mother) and my sons. That's my major struggle at this point.

 

[Lucyxyz]

You poor thing!

We were on the roller coaster ourselves for five years. Our son would not use for long periods of time and our home was calm BUT he would not work or go to college. When he did he would begin using and the process would all start over. It had to end. His actions were ruling our life. He was in charge.

My husband wanted him out and I was too afraid. He was never violent or said mean things to us. That would have made it all happen sooner. But he did steal etc. from us, lie.

I would see a therapist together with a plan on how to rectify the situation. We saw an addiction specialist together. We were desperate for a change. He told us to tell our son rehab or you're out. He had been to rehab many times before with no success so I felt that was not an option but we did it. He chose rehab (he literally had no friends) and after that we shipped him down to Florida for sober living and follow up. Figured if he ended up homeless due to his actions, he would not freeze. Yes that's the real reason.

He has been gone since March and we are so happy and God I wish we had done it sooner. Is he doing great? No. He's doing better than he did here though. As you can see by my signature it's all been a struggle but he is now working 30 hours per week and just signed up today for one college class starting on Monday. He feels like we sent him off to "fend for himself". Yes we did and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I told him that someday he will thank us. He's still very immature and a total pain in the ass but our lives are calm. He has to figure this out. Sink or swim.

I have hated my son before so don't feel guilty about that. I don't. You are a wonderful mother or you would not be here. I think we feel hate to protect ourselves. It isn't real. It's from all the years of the suffering they inflict on us. It's normal.

Keep posting. There is a wealth of knowledge here. We have been through it.

Thank you so much. I feel like a freak for just wanting him out of my life. It's nice to know I'm not alone

 

[RN0441]

Lucy

As others say on here but you may have not read it yet - don't write the end of the story!

You are writing the end of the story. Don't do it. You need to deal with the here and now. You do not know what the future holds.

Most likely if YOU don't DO something, it will not end well. If you DO something, you have a chance. Your son has a chance. I know it sounds crazy but it's true.

It's not easy. It will be the hardest thing YOU WILL EVER HAVE TO DO.

 

[Lil]

You're not saying anything I haven't said a thousand times. And no offense but until you've lived in MY house with MY son you don't know what our lives are like. So it's easy to say what you'd do, I've said the same.

And yes you can bloody someone without throwing punches, repeatedly unfortunately.

I agree I should not have to live in fear. It sucks and I've been helpless long enough. Counseling will help me figure it all out and hopefully make whatever changes are needed. Right now it's the grief of a life lost. Both mine (as a mother) and my sons. That's my major struggle at this point.

I think it's quite easy for all of us to see what other people should do...not so much to see what we should do. I'm the "enabler" in my house...but it's easy to say, "throw him out" or "cut him off". It's quite another thing to do it. My husband, Jabber, has a hard time understanding any man not standing up to the behavior of our kids. But then he's looking at it as a former Marine / prison guard / old fashioned guy.

There is a saying I've read many times on this board, "Take what helps and leave the rest". None of us are experts, we can only support and offer advice as people who are living similar lives. We all have had pain and grief. A life lost is very accurate - that's what it feels like.

 

[Lucyxyz]

I think it's quite easy for all of us to see what other people should do...not so much to see what we should do. I'm the "enabler" in my house...but it's easy to say, "throw him out" or "cut him off". It's quite another thing to do it. My husband, Jabber, has a hard time understanding any man not standing up to the behavior of our kids. But then he's looking at it as a former Marine, prison guard.

There is a saying I've read many times on this board, "Take what helps and leave the rest". None of us are experts, we can only support and offer advice as people who are living similar lives. We all have had pain and grief. A life lost is very accurate - that's what it feels like.

Thank you

 

[Snow White]

Lucy, I have just been catching up on all of the posts. I'm so sorry that you are in the place you are now. You are NOT a freak. You are a human being and a mother. Our instincts are to nurture and protect. I am at the same crossroad with our daughter as you are with your son. It hurts and you feel like no one else understands your pain but we do.

Our daughter has been emotionally and physically abusive - I've been called the "C" word more times than I can think of. When she has lived in our house, she has destroyed walls, doors and personal belongings of others. She's made videos and blogs with lies about our family and threats to kill us. She doesn't want to change. I have wanted so desperately to have a relationship with her but she makes it impossible. In 2 years, we are $10K in 'helping' her out with all of her dramas, while she travels the world carefree, spreading her hatred for us.

Most likely if YOU don't DO something, it will not end well. If you DO something, you have a chance. Your son has a chance. I know it sounds crazy but it's true.
It's not easy. It will be the hardest thing YOU WILL EVER HAVE TO DO.

This is SO true. It IS the hardest thing.

My husband and I are starting therapy. He struggles more with daughter's issues. We are committed to putting our life back together. And I pray every day that our daughter will be safe and maybe one day find her way to treatment.

Keep posting. You are not alone.

 

[RN0441]

Lucy

Also remember that many of us have taken some type of action to get OUR lives back and that is why we may seem harsh because we see our own story in each other's stories.

When I first came to this board I thought it was a bit harsh too. But as I stayed and read and posted I gained the strength that I needed (that we needed) to take action.

We all really hate to see each other suffer. It replays our own suffering for us. At least it does for me.

It has nothing to do with LOVE. OMG we love our son to the moon and back. He is our love child. We both had a son from our first marriage and then we had HIM. The one. The tie that binded us all together.

 

[BusynMember]

Lucy, my son was not nice from as early as I remember. I love him a lot because he's my child but I don't like him. He isn't likeable and is not going to change because he doesn't see it and he is already 39.

My other kids I love and like and admire.

It sucks but if son weren't my son I would not want to know him. I'm glad he choses not to participate in family holidays etc. My other normal nice kids don't like him. He has been mean to them too.

You failed at nothing. Your son is making hideous choices and being mean. You did not bring him up to be this way. This is on him, not you.

 

[Lil]

When I first came to this board I thought it was a bit harsh too. But as I stayed and read and posted I gained the strength that I needed (that we needed) to take action.

How true. This is a good place for us parents. It's a loving, caring place that lets you vent and gives you support. It also can seem harsh. I had my feelings hurt a number of time early one...and really, still do now and then. Because while I can give advice all day long, applying it to my own life is much harder. It's kind of like losing weight. I know everything there is to know about losing weight. But making myself do it is a whole different ball game.

The thing to remember is that you are not alone! You are not abnormal. You are not to blame. We are all here for you, like what you hear or not, and pulling for you.

 

[Lucyxyz]

Lucy, my son was not nice from as early as I remember. I love him a lot because he's my child but I don't like him. He isn't likeable and is not going to change because he doesn't see it and he is already 39.

My other kids I love and like and admire.

It sucks but if son weren't my son I would not want to know him. I'm glad he choses not to participate in family holidays etc. My other normal nice kids don't like him. He has been mean to them too.

You failed at nothing. Your son is making hideous choices and being mean. You did not bring him up to be this way. This is on him, not you.

I watch my friends with their kids and I'm so envious. How awesome it must be to just have a 'normal' relationship you know?

 

[BusynMember]

I watch my friends with their kids and I'm so envious. How awesome it must be to just have a 'normal' relationship you know?

I have a normal relationship with three of my kids. We have fun together. Being normal adults though they hAve their own lives and significant others. I still need to focus on myself and my husband because normal adult kids don't need or ask for things nor live with you until they are thirty. They work hard and get tired, like us. And that's good. I'm proud of them.

In the end all of us need to live our own lives. Nothing normal grown kids hate more than controlling, overly intrusive parents. They like us to be happy and to approve of them, but not preach to them or drop by every day. I am very mindful not to be a pushy mom and I don't demand their time. But we are close anyway. Just not enmeshed.

So we all come to a place where we have to let go and live our own best lives. We can not ever live for our adult kids, thriving or otherwise. It is best to embrace other roles besides parent as our once little ones grow into adults. Parenting can not be our only identity orbwe will drive our adult children crazy. They are happy seeing us busy and fulfilled.

 

[4now]

Lucy,

Check the laws in your state, but I believe you can get a restraining order against him (your son) and that would essentially evict him from your home without going through the process, if you and your husband are not on the same page it makes it harder. But if you are in fear physically from him it might be something to consider even if your husband doesn't agree. It isn't fair for your husband to expect you to live in fear in your own home.

 

[susiestar]

I think it is time to explain some boundaries to YOUR HUSBAND. Your son be danged, your hubby is the one I see as the bigger problem. I am sorry if this sounds disrespectful, but I would be leaving in a heartbeat if my son stood over my bed and my hubby took my son's side. I can honestly say this because I lived with a violent son, one who was determined to kill myself and my daughter. My son never saw my hubby as being 'in the way' or setting limits but very much saw me as the one who made the rules, so he thought I had to go. HE didn't realize that I may be the one who verbalized the rules, but my hubby and I agreed on them beforehand or I didn't say them at all. My son's violence toward my daughter was because she was the second child and he was the first so she was the 'interloper' in his mind. I found my son strangling her one night and my son ended up in a psychiatric hospital for several months, but he was a minor. Until we got a bed for him, my daughter slept with me and my husband slept on the floor outside the door so my son had to wake him up to get to my daughter and I.

It is time to give your hubby a wake-up call. And to see a judge about a TRO. A temporary restraining order. If you can, next time your son blows up, get audio or video of his threats to kill you and of him calling you names. Also get video of his drugs in your home - this is a threat because it draws undesirables to your home and could threaten your life. So you can get an order of protection or a restraining order on these, or based on what the officers reported on the blowup due to what happened before Christmas. This will mean he must find somewhere else to live. IF your husband wants to go with him, let him go with him. I am sorry to say that, but honestly, what marriage do you have if your husband chooses a drug dealing thug over you?

In a marriage you choose your spouse over your kids unless the spouse is harming the kids. In this case the 'kid' is an adult who refuses to grow up and is abusing everyone in the home including himself. If he is ANY kind of drug dealer, he is making good money and can support himself, he just doesn't want to. Let him go and support himself in whatever manner he wants to, on the money he is making.

Don't bring the cops down on yourselves. If the cops think your paid off home has been used in drug dealing, they CAN and WILL seize your home. This means you LOSE all equity in it and have to start all over. Will your son pay it back? Say he is sorry and mean it? No one both counts. I know families that this has happened to. Where a drug dealing adult child ended up costing retired or soon to be retired parents their home and most of their vehicles because they allowed that adult child to use their vehicles. The adult child stored or transported his drugs or sold drugs from these properties or vehicles so they were seized and the parents ended up stone cold BROKE with almost nothing to fund their retirement when they had very little time to build up money for retirement. One lady ended up working for Walmart for fifteen years after her adult child's arrest because she had just put in for retirement and her employer wouldn't let her undo it because her adult child's arrest somehow 'tainted' her reputation.

I don't think that you want to go through ANY of that. Get your son out. Go to the courts now. Tell them that you feel UNSAFE with your son there, that he has threatened you with a knife in your bedroom, that your husband supports this unsafe behavior. IF the courts won't support you, get a smaller home of your own and let your hubby deal with your son all on his own.

A therapist and Alanon or Narcanon are excellent ideas. I truly, deeply, 1000% support them. But PLEASE, PLEASE, this is an incredibly dangerous situation. Your safety MUST come first. IF your husband won't put you first, YOU must do it. This adult infant cannot be allowed to harm you any more than he already has. In time, if you want to establish a relationship in a public area where witnesses can see his behavior, where you can set up a video camera or you know a business has a video camera so you have some assurances that you will be safe, you can do that. But there comes a time where sanity must prevail, even when it is your child who is the threat to you. And it sounds like your son truly IS a threat.

 

[Jabberwockey]

And no offense but until you've lived in MY house with MY son you don't know what our lives are like. So it's easy to say what you'd do, I've said the same.

No offense taken. I wasn't trying to imply that I knew what your lives are like. What I do know is, based on what you have described, your life is very similar to ours but ramped up a few notches.