I'm checking in....

[Lil]

That aside, his disrespect makes my blood boil. This is something that always gets to me. How can they take their own mother for granted?

I think there's a large number of mothers here who love you to pieces when you say things like that!

 

[A dad]

Darkwing, there are so many disrespectul adult kids. I adopted a son I loved so much, however he WAS six when we did, and he walked out of our family, going on ten years now. Thankfully I have other kids, but this destroyed me for years. He wasn't even a drug addict or failing to thrive. He just decided he didnt need us...I suspect this very bright, finsncially successful young man felt he was superior to us. He is a millionaire with his own business and we do not meet his standards as his family. It broke my heart.

Also, Copas son smoked pot, but I think thats all. Im no pot fan, but that isnt as serious in my opinion as drugs can kill you...just a heads up. illvbe off to work, but want to thank you for being here for us. You are a blessing. You set us straight

Look at the good part he helped your daughter recover and get back on track he might not do a thing for you now but he did in the past I mean in my opinion while things do not go well with him I do not think you regret adopting him as in the end he did good for the family also.

 

[BusynMember]

Look at the good part he helped your daughter recover and get back on track he might not do a thing for you now but he did in the past I mean in my opinion while things do not go well with him I do not think you regret adopting him as in the end he did good for the family also.

I VERY MUCH ENJOYED RAISING HIM UNTIL HE MET HIS WIFE.

 

[Childofmine]

Copa, a few thoughts about your questions in your post.

First, I absolutely believe you have the right to make the rules in your home, period. Your home = your sanctuary = your rules.

I also agree it's hard to have our grown kids in our homes...really hard.

I know you have said your son has trouble with realizing how he comes across to others. As a mom, I think it's good, with his permission, for you to give him feedback about his behavior. I would say whatever it is...one time. Then no more. Saying the same "truths" over and over again is trying to control him. I learned that in Al-Anon and I believe it is true.

He knows, and if he keeps doing it, he's doing it with full knowledge.

I don't think you can/should prevent him from leaving if that's what he wants and needs to do, for a week or whatever. But...like you said...your rules when he gets back, for re-entry. Let him know clearly ahead of time what those are, if you haven't already, so there are no misunderstandings.

I think it's interesting that he needs a "week in the woods" to get prepared for whatever, but these young people are a work in progress so if he does, he does. Let it go and let him deal with the consequences.

It does sound like there was a bit of a pity party going on, not to say he doesn't actually think those things, but telling his momma (my son does that too) is contrived by our DCs to get our empathy and reaction. Today, when my son starts that stuff, it really turns me off, and I give it very short attention. I acknowledge he said whatever he said, but I work hard not to react and start saying oh, yes you are so great, or whatever.

I also, without prompting, tell him at times that I am really proud of him and that I think he is showing great persistence, or maturity or whatever, related to something specific he did.

I would rather give that type of feedback unsolicited than react to some type of poor poor pitiful me stuff.

I just cut it off very quickly now, and I used to wax on and on and on.

But...having said all of that...I still see tremendous progress in where your son is today. Is it all "pretty and perfect"? Heck no. But it's true and measurable progress.

Hang in there...

 

[Lil]

SWOT, I very much believe that some people come into your life for a purpose. Gone Boy's role in yours was to help save your daughter. Nothing is an accident. You said he was close to her but I bet it was that distant part of him, that perhaps he didn't show at that time, that allowed him to be so tough on her. He cared enough to take her in...but not so much that it broke his heart to watch her struggle.

 

[BusynMember]

Lil, I think youre right. Nobody else would have been able to be that tough on her.

Thanks

I definitely think everythung hapoens for a reason.

 

[Ironbutterfly]

Copa.

I have two kids - one is an adult, the other almost an adult.
I'm having to learn to say a whole lot LESS.
I still have a lot to say - I'm a Mom.
BUT... sometimes, things can be said with a few words or two sentences - not a whole speech. And it helps to not go from one thing, to another, and then another - that's just nagging.

If there is a current problem and it is affecting you, then approach it as just that - not as something he needs to learn anyway. He CAN figure that part out. What he needs to hear is more along the lines of he's not a kid anymore, and you have the need and the right to be able to manage the food stock for yourself and M. Especially now that you are working, coming home to an "empty fridge" - or at least empty of what you had planned for supper and breakfast and tomorrow's lunch - is not acceptable.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copa- I totally agree with Insane. I have learned that when I say less to Difficult Child, he seems to actually listen vs. tuning out with my blah, blah, and another thing, yaddie yaddie. Less is more. State a factual sentence. "I want you to be respectful of the food in the house, use it, replace it."

"I understand you want a get away, fine, understand me also, you've made progress, I am proud of you, love you and would hate for anything to disrupt your progress.Your choice, your decision"

"Do not disrespect me in my house, period."

I make Difficult Child think with my little statements, it seems to have worked and he is progressing and I am proud of him. I think back on the times I said OMG how many times have I told you, do you not listen, I told you this would happen, but you always do what you want to do, etc.

Now it's more you're 36, a grown man, your decision but understand x, y, z could happen, think it through if that is what you feel you should do, etc. Keep it simple.

I think you should get a card, some donuts (if he likes donuts, or cookies) and give them to your son and write, I love you more..

 

[BusynMember]

I can not agree with anyone more thsn COM saying to say things once and let it go. I would not harp.

Iron Butterfly brought up something very true. if one keeps talking, talking, talking...somewhere along the line, you lose your audience. My mother used to say I "tuned me out!" It angered her, but I did and it was on purpose. She went on and on, over and over again, and to protect myself from feeling picked on and inadequate, I sang songs in my head or, worse, talked back to her in my mind (or out loud if it really hurt). This continued into adulthood.

I still think less is more powerful.

Calmly,"If you test positive for pot while living here, you can't stay as being high on pot is not allowed here." There. You said it. He decides what to do about it.

That way he cant become angry and think he is being picked on. You have rules in your house/your castle/your sanctuary and he decides if he wants to live there by following or disregarding the rules.

One tiime is the charm. Too much repeating...loses its punch.

Nice posts COM and IB!!!!!

JMO

 

[Tanya M]

The vacation idea is almost certainly going to blow up in his face. Countless addicts have tried the geographical fix, and failed miserably. The problem isn't what is around him. It isn't due to the weather. It is internal. We can run from many things, but not ourselves. The same problems that led us to substance abuse in the first place will eventually resurface. And they are just as ill prepared as the last time.

You are spot on Darkwing. My son tried the relocation thing numerous times. Every time he would relocate he would go into a dissertation about how things were going to be so much better. All he did was run from himself. Instead of really looking inward at his life choices he would run away from his problems thinking a geographic change would magically change his life. All that moving and wondering has not made a difference.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

You are spot on Darkwing. My son tried the relocation thing numerous times. Every time he would relocate he would go into a dissertation about how things were going to be so much better. All he did was run from himself. Instead of really looking inward at his life choices he would run away from his problems thinking a geographic change would magically change his life. All that moving and wondering has not made a difference.

Of course, that isn't to say that a geographical change cannot be helpful. So long as the they keep working on themselves. An addict is an addict is an addict. And a dealer is a dealer is a dealer. Finding drugs isn't difficult. There will always be addicts, and there will always be dealers. Any where he goes. It is only a matter of time until he hooks up with somebody.

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you everybody. I agree with all of you. I know I go on and on. I know I am stressed out. It is partly that M rags at me. Apparently M has been covering for my son, and my son plays one against the other. M sees it as a man's code to not "tell" and yet he has been seeing stuff he does not like--like the drug dealer who unfortunately lives 2 houses down by the other house (the City is about ready to take over the house to get him out--at least the cops said that 2 months ago, that it would happen in 3 weeks). M saw him walk right up to my son and hand him a drug pipe. My son said he refused it.

I am tired out, is mainly it. And stressed out. My son waited for me to get home--to pay for the internet. And then covers his tracks by saying he tried all day.

That would have broken my heart and I would have instantly softened me as

SWOT, I did tell him I loved him most in the world exactly at this point.

That would have broken my heart and I would have instantly softened me as

SWOT, I did tell him I loved him most in the world exactly at this point.

My son knows how much I love him. The key to his problem anymore, however, is not a mother's love. It is his own efforts. If he sees what he needs, and chooses to go there: like therapy or school or voc rehab. I am not the key to his problems. He is.

Maybe that is the setup with him here or even working with us, or the promise of help with housing: it created a dependency trap. And that is what he has sought for years now, some sort of protection and support--without compromise or commitment on his part.

He is doing more--but the problem persists. I am so tired that this week I can barely stand it.

There was a real attitude change this week. Just when I started bragging on him.

I am exhausted. Really, really exhausted. And I am tiring of having my privacy with M be a thing of the past. I am tired of the constantly needing to prompt him, remind him. I am just, tired. I guess M is tired, too. It is really too much for us. I am beginning to see.

Honestly, I do not know what the answers are. It is still too hot in the other house, he says. And I can see it. I tried to ask M if it was time for me to bring in an electrician to upgrade the wiring and he said No. But if my son goes to the other house with the drug dealer down the street, it will be more problems. I can see it now.

I feel defeated.

Thank you, all. It helps.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Thank you everybody. I agree with all of you. I know I go on and on. I know I am stressed out. It is partly that M rags at me. Apparently M has been covering for my son, and my son plays one against the other. M sees it as a man's code to not "tell" and yet he has been seeing stuff he does not like--like the drug dealer who unfortunately lives 2 houses down by the other house (the City is about ready to take over the house to get him out--at least the cops said that 2 months ago, that it would happen in 3 weeks). M saw him walk right up to my son and hand him a drug pipe. My son said he refused it.

I am tired out, is mainly it. And stressed out. My son waited for me to get home--to pay for the internet. And then covers his tracks by saying he tried all day.
SWOT, I did tell him I loved him most in the world exactly at this point.SWOT, I did tell him I loved him most in the world exactly at this point.

My son knows how much I love him. The key to his problem anymore, however, is not a mother's love. It is his own efforts. If he sees what he needs, and chooses to go there: like therapy or school or voc rehab. I am not the key to his problems. He is.

Maybe that is the setup with him here or even working with us, or the promise of help with housing: it created a dependency trap. And that is what he has sought for years now, some sort of protection and support--without compromise or commitment on his part.

He is doing more--but the problem persists. I am so tired that this week I can barely stand it.

There was a real attitude change this week. Just when I started bragging on him.

I am exhausted. Really, really exhausted. And I am tiring of having my privacy with M be a thing of the past. I am tired of the constantly needing to prompt him, remind him. I am just, tired. I guess M is tired, too. It is really too much for us. I am beginning to see.

Honestly, I do not know what the answers are. It is still too hot in the other house, he says. And I can see it. I tried to ask M if it was time for me to bring in an electrician to upgrade the wiring and he said No. But if my son goes to the other house with the drug dealer down the street, it will be more problems. I can see it now.

I feel defeated.

Thank you, all. It helps.

Keep in mind that you are not required to do ANYTHING for him until he is ready and willing to do for himself. Naturally, you are exhausted. How could you NOT be? I remember my aunt saying that she is tired of the negative consequences of drug abuse. I told her it must be worse for her, since she didn't even get to enjoy the narcotics. Addiction effects everybody. And the closer you are to an addict, the stronger those effects become. What makes our actions so selfish is exactly that. It isn't possible to avoiding hurting our loved ones while in active addiction. And we know it. But we do it anyway. It is the most unfair, selfish behavior a person could take. And it is the thing addicts are most sorry for when and if they finally pull their head out of their ass. I know that me apologizing to you for your son's actions doesn't actually mean much, but I will say it as a generality; I am sorry. I am just as guilty of all these things your son is. I am no better, and I hurt my loved ones as much as he hurts you. So, I am sorry.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, really, you have gone above and beyond and if you are telling him you love him, maybe he is manipulating you. "Im just a poor loser"...I see it in a different light now. Someone said a pity party. That or a way to soften your kind heart.

Remember the good advice you give to others. We matter too. You matter too. Perhaps it is time to speed up the air conditioner in the other house and let him move. For you. Even if M. says its too soon. Your son coming between the two of you. DON'T let him.

I understand about the drug dealer who lives near that house. So what? There are drug users and dealers everywhere in every city and you can't shelter him from drugs. None of us can do that. There are too many of them. Your son's drug of choice is pot. It is legal in your state. Even here, where its not legal, pot is everywhere, like alcohol. Your son has to decide not to use it or he will use it. If he is causing you stress, maybe it is a good idea to move him out. For you. The pot will always, in the end, be his decision.

You are doing so well. He is doing better. Maybe it's time for him to not be homeless( i know you cant live with that and this post is about YOU)...but maybe he can have a place to lay his head, but still have to make his own decisions beyond that.

At some time it becomes...can WE take it. We are not 30 anymore and we've lived long, hard lives and deserve peace in our homes. But you know this. You wisely tell this to everyone else.

Why do all the other parents matter except you?

You do matter. You can retire from active parenting too, if you like, and let your son decide to be useful or waste all you have taught him. In the end, it is up to our kids how they choose to live.

I am sorry you are sad and tired. Nobody deserves a gentle rest as much as you. You know we are all with you, no matter what you decide.

Hoping you have a peaceful night. You deserve one. Many!

 

[Copabanana]

Thank you Darkwing and SWOT.

I am sorry. I am just as guilty of all these things your son is. I am no better, and I hurt my loved ones as much as he hurts you.

Darkwing. M just told me this: I know you are tired and stressed but you are not done educating your son.

Darkwing. Whatever the errors you see you may have made, you deserved too that a parent be there for you, a mother, to try and try and try for you. Even if she felt she had nothing left to give.

I do not think I would have the stamina to do this without M. But I believe he is right. My son has nobody but me, really. And M. He does not really have himself. In many ways he is still a child, covered up by the bluster of an arrogant man. I am not making excuses for him. It is what it is.

I am very tired. Maybe I target him because he is easy pickings. That is mean and small and cruel if I do that. I am not sure that I do not. Kind of like "kick the dog." I feel pushed and pushed at work--it is highly demanding--and I am old now. Maybe I can't or should not do it anymore-work in such a brutal environment. It was brutal to me 20 years ago. Maybe now it is killing.Maybe M is pushing himself beyond what he can do, too. I know he is. He is old too, I guess.

It is not obligation. It is love. And the desire to live by ethics. And to grow beyond what is comfortable and easy. To right what was wrong. To take responsibility even where it was not your own to begin with.

Very much, I think, like you are trying to live now. We are not unalike, I think, darkwing.

You can retire from active parenting too, if you like, and let your son decide to be useful or waste all you have taught him. In the end, it is up to our kids how they choose to live.

M said something like this tonight, but a little different.

It is our job to tell him and tell him but not to get mad. In the end, he will decide how he wants to live. He will tire of it all, and us, and leave or he will stay and decide to change.

You see, M wants me to feel and to know that I did everything a mother could do, and more. He wants to feel this for himself, too. Maybe both of us are atoning for stuff in our pasts that can never be remedied. Sometimes I think this. But this too, is what it is.

I agree with M and I agree with you, SWOT. But I want my son to stay. When I have my real mind back, I want him to stay to learn...if he can and then, himself, decide.

I am just very, very tired.

Thank you very much.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Thank you Darkwing and SWOT. Darkwing. M just told me this: I know you are tired and stressed but you are not done educating your son.

Darkwing. Whatever the errors you see you may have made, you deserved too that a parent be there for you, a mother, to try and try and try for you. Even if she felt she had nothing left to give.

I do not think I would have the stamina to do this without M. But I believe he is right. My son has nobody but me, really. And M. He does not really have himself. In many ways he is still a child, covered up by the bluster of an arrogant man. I am not making excuses for him. It is what it is.

I am very tired. Maybe I target him because he is easy pickings. That is mean and small and cruel if I do that. I am not sure that I do not. Kind of like "kick the dog." I feel pushed and pushed at work--it is highly demanding--and I am old now. Maybe I can't or should not do it anymore-work in such a brutal environment. It was brutal to me 20 years ago. Maybe now it is killing.Maybe M is pushing himself beyond what he can do, too. I know he is. He is old too, I guess.

It is not obligation. It is love. And the desire to live by ethics. And to grow beyond what is comfortable and easy. To right what was wrong. To take responsibility even where it was not your own to begin with.

Very much, I think, like you are trying to live now. We are not unalike, I think, darkwing.
M said something like this tonight, but a little different.

It is our job to tell him and tell him but not to get mad. In the end, he will decide how he wants to live. He will tire of it all, and us, and leave or he will stay and decide to change.

You see, M wants me to feel and to know that I did everything a mother could do, and more. He wants to feel this for himself, too. Maybe both of us are atoning for stuff in our pasts that can never be remedied. Sometimes I think this. But this too, is what it is.

I agree with M and I agree with you. But I want my son to stay. When I have my real mind back, I want him to stay to learn...if he can and then, himself, decide.

I am just very, very tired.

Thank you very much.

I can say, with reasonable certainty, that you are a good parent. Being here is enough to demonstrate that. You wouldn't be here if you didn't care. As much as I loved my mom, she was a bad mother. She wasn't cruel, cold, or indifferent. I never doubted her love for me, and I never doubted my love for her. But she was still a bad parent. She was a drug addict for 20 years.... Something she never overcame. So, she demonstrated the normal addict behavior and thinking. Which leaves very little room for anything but the drug. Still, that is one of the things I respect most about her. When I was younger, I couldn't understand what was wrong. I knew SOMETHING was wrong, but I didn't know what it was. I never once saw a meth pipe. Then, when my addiction kicked in, I had a much deeper understanding and respect for her. And I do not take the bad parts to be personal, or a failure of my own. She would not be here even if she were alive. I dislike my dad very strongly, but I do love him. He was a drunk, and had no issue beating the out of ten year old children. Sometimes when I would mess up, and sometimes when the 49ers lost. I loved him sober, though. He is a truly brilliant man. He has a great sense of humor, too. He IS still alive, and would not be here.

The difference between my parents and you is obvious. You are a good parent, and mine were not. Even when you make mistakes, or say the wrong things, you are genuinely trying, and obviously trying to get a better understanding of your child's problems. Even through all this pain, sadness, and exhaustion, you are more concerned for him than for yourself. That is a good parent.

 

[Copabanana]

you are genuinely trying

Thank you Darkwing.

My son's parents were addicts and both were dying of AIDS at the time he came to my home. He knows this. He became ill with Hepatitis, that we believe he has carried from his birth, and we did not know. It is a heavy, heavy burden for him to bear.

My father too was an addict--really, anything he could get. Like your father he had parts of him that were stellar and parts that were demonic. My mother, too, was preoccupied--not by drugs--but self-absorbed and really didn't see us at all. She loved us but was never there. I loved my mother desperately my whole life but never knew it. When she died--I learned how much.

I became really human loving my son. There is no other way to see it than this. Who knows where they are going or where they need to go except in desperate moments. I think that is what you were trying to say about the forty percent. We are always lost and searching. When we know it, we are at our best. Only desperation enables us to touch bottom, a true thing. There is nothing to be found there except for ourselves. We do that through decisions and deeds. I guess that is the way I am trying to live. This is how I have come to think.

I have a sound mind but I cannot seem to think my way out of this or through it. My only guidance, really, is here. Thank you Darkwing.

 

[New Leaf]

I have been following along and have mixed feelings about the whole getaway in the city thing. I think if it were me, I would be taken aback by the notion, a bit afraid that it is a backwards move. But I am thinking this too, I love my mom dearly, but would have a hard time living with her. She is very set in her ways, down to the lights being turned off in proper order........not saying it is the same for you, Copa, but I guess the gist of what I am trying to say is maybe for many of us it is hard to live under a parents roof as an adult. So, son wants to have a weeks "vacation" living in the city park? Hmmmmmm. Maybe it will help him figure out what he really wants to do? In the end all, that is what he will do anyways?

Most of all I am wondering if you think I am being too harsh about his proposed vacation. What he would do is go be homeless for the week in a forest in an urban area. I think I would be supporting an irresponsible escape.

I do not think you are harsh, just honest. Homeless for a week in a forest in an urban area, that's a vacation??????? I cannot imagine the notion. That is the last thing I would want to do.

I have a sound mind but I cannot seem to think my way out of this or through it.

One step, one day at a time. Sometimes an hour, or minute at a time. The answers will come.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Childofmine]

Copa of course you are exhausted. This is the type of tired that goes to your very bones and isn't alleviated by sleep.

There is no amount of new wiring or other tactics by you that is going to change what he decides to do.

Don't put that on yourself. That again is thinking we can control or fix their worlds.

I could not fathom the bottoms that had to happen for my son. And they had to happen for him because no number of actions I tried to take for 10 years stopped the future he created and chose.

As much as you can, let go. Just open your arms to the universe and give him up. To the forest. To the drug dealer down the street. To the hot house.

I think that is where the real exhaustion comes from. Trying to intervene. Trying to be one step ahead with it all.

I am so so glad you are working right now. Working hard. This is so good for you however imperfect the job (as is any job is) and it is good for him.

You are doing so well Copa. I hope you can claim that and see your own journey back to wholeness for the great progress that it is.

 

[pasajes4]

Their progress is not ours. Their downfall is not ours. Silence on our part speaks volumes. We can be supportive and stand our ground.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

Speaking of rough childhoods, lemme tell you a little somethin' about mine. Every taco Tuesday we had spaghetti. It was a nightmare.