Jaded Perspective vs Reality

[SuZir]

Dang, wasn't quick enough to edit my message to add this so I feel the need to address this in new message:

I'm certainly not trying to claim or imply that anyone would be mean-spirited at this board. I'm sure everyone just tries to support other people in the way think is best. But even without the ill spirit dogmatism and upmanship can be hurtful. And that it is about when one goes around telling confused and hurting people how they are doing everything wrong, how they have to follow certain path to achieve peace and happiness and how it is insane to make different choices. Or telling people they love, and people we don't know, are this or that (usually bad) and certainly thinking or doing this or that (usually bad) because someone we know who has vague similarities to their loved also did. When you notice that you are starting to tell how people with autism always this or never that, or people with substance abuse issues always this or that or people with bipolar never that, you are in very thin ice. And even more so when one starts to make assumptions of parents based on their kid doing this or that (like, oh, your adult kid who may even have issues, lives home, you are guilty of enabling and sick and need to admit it.)

 

[KTMom91]

I read nearly every day, but don't post much, because Miss KT has pretty much shed the difficult child antics and has become a delightful young woman. However, I was here early on, and left because I felt uncomfortable with the "advice" given by another member. It didn't fit my situation, and I felt more judged than anything else, so I left for several years, and when I came back, it was, as advertised, a soft place to land.

I think we need to remember that the new people posting are probably pretty raw, emotionally, spiritually, maybe physically, and they haven't learned to take what they need and leave the rest. They don't know what they need right off, it's too overwhelming. I remember how I felt when I left the board...defeated, because it was one more place that didn't understand.

 

[SuZir]

One more thing that bothers me a lot is that we sometimes 'give' diagnosis in very unhelpful way. Is it the other thing to ask if some diagnose has been consider or tell that this or that behaviour brings some diagnose to our mind. But telling people that their loved one likely has personality disorder (without ever meeting the person and after reading thousand words of parent venting) or better yet; that their five-year-old will likely grow up to be a psychopath and it is in his genes and nothing can be done is rather horrifying. It doesn't much help even if you add the disclaimer to the end and mention that you are not a MD and can't diagnose.

Especially when people are desperate they are willing to grasp any answers or advises they get. And it is indeed a tragedy if we let someone to believe their young child is incurable when they are not. Or even let them believe their adult or older teen kid has no hope when in reality the kid may be suffering 'just' young male type depression for example.

 

[Origami]

As a relative "newbie," I can say that I was pretty overwhelmed by some of the advice and comments I received early on. Some of it made me feel like I wasn't doing enough to rid myself of my difficult children and I should have kicked them to the curb immediately. Looking back, I realize that probably wasn't what was meant, but it was how it seemed to me at the time. I think it was too much and too soon for me to absorb the possibilities and how other people had to detach. My experience seems to be less dramatic than some, and I feel like the crisis has died down and we're all living together rather happily with some positive changes being made.

I think there are various degrees of "abuse" we experience with our difficult children, and sometimes it's not really abuse but something else. A one-size-fits-all approach obviously isn't appropriate. But there is some validity to the point that some new members might be put off by the intensity of some advice.

That being said, if a person steps back and sees that everyone posts from their own experience and perspective, we should be able to take or leave any advice given. I wouldn't want anyone to feel like they had to walk on eggshells to worry about not offending anyone, but it is a valid concern.

I love this forum and feel like the members here are the most welcoming and helpful that I've "met." I've tried posting on a couple of others where I felt like the outsider who walked into a party and wasn't privy to the inside jokes. Not welcomed at all. So my heartfelt thanks to everyone and it's great to know I'm not the only one dealing with difficult child issues. The rest of my world in general doesn't understand.

 

[Tanya M]

I am new to this forum but not new to the issues. My difficult child is 33 and have been dealing with his issues for close to 20 years now. I consider myself a seasoned vetran as I have endured my difficult child running away from home numerous times, being arrested numerous times, jail and prison time, drug and alcohol abuse, stealing from me, lying about me, vandalizing my home, abandoning his children, etc..... and he's been homeless for a little over a year now. I'm glad I found this forum and hope it's here for many years. Of course I do wish there was no need to have a forum like this in that all children/adult children did not have any issues.
My mother always taught me, "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" Instead of saying "you need to kick them out" you could say "you really need to start considering that you may have to kick them out"
We that have been through it and survived with our sanity intact for the most part and have much to offer, yet we did not arrive where we are now overnight. I know for myself it took years to work through the guilt thinking that it was somehow my fault, of course when your difficult child keeps telling you it's your fault..... I struggled with the guilt of telling my difficult child that he was not welcome in our home thinking I must be the cruelest person on the planet.
We all have to come to our own acceptance in our own time. Sadly, some never do.
I think the most important thing we can do is offer compassion and share our experiences, to let others know they are not alone. To help them understand that they don't have to live thier life in fear or shame, that they too have a life that is worth living to the fullest.

 

[recoveringenabler]

An interesting thread, it's helpful to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions, we can always learn and be open to change.

I believe we all have the same intention to be of help and sometimes perhaps we can be over zealous in our approaches and forget the overwhelming fragility one can feel when our children are in any way at risk. I understand how that might cause someone to pull back and reconsider posting again. And, that would be a terrible injustice to that person, when usually we do come here in our darkest hour. For that I am deeply sorry, I don't imagine anyone here intends that, but unfortunately, with us humans, we do our best, but sometimes it just isn't enough and even with our best intentions, we can cause another pain.

For some of us, myself included, the pain that I was in when I first came here was so profound that in coming through that pain, I want to help others avoid it. I can offer my experiences and opinions about how that worked for me and in doing so, I would hope that I don't alienate another or God forbid, bring them even more pain. But, maybe I have. I am sincerely sorry if I have done that.

When I look around here and read the stories I am in awe of the courage and strength it takes to get through this path.........and in our deep desire to help another, we can make mistakes, we can push too hard, be too harsh......however I don't believe anyone here would do that purposely, it would be inadvertent and without malice.

For anyone who experiences or experienced any uncomfortable feelings as a result of one of us offering advice or support, first of all I am sorry you felt that. I am sorry anyone would feel alienated and more lost because of something one of us said...........and I would ask you to please let us know that, send me a PM if it doesn't feel right to do it in public. Voice your hurt or anger so that we can at least hear it, if not make an attempt to correct it. Don't let it drive you away. We've all been hurt enough. We really do want to be a soft place to land.........that is the most important aspect to remember. So let us know if that isn't your experience.

 

[BusynMember]

Hmmmmmmmmmm...bet it will be quiet here for a while.

Nobody has really defined how it is safe to respond. And everyone is offended or put off by different things. To me it seems nearly impossible to avoid it when the topic is what it is.

I will keep posting to those I know and leave the new posters to others for now as I no longer have any idea what is ok to say to them. I feel like anything I post may be wrong so less is more. Or anything that anyone posts unless it is very banal. And that may not be what they are looking for either...banal soft-peddling. The truth is, what one person may want or need is not the same as what another does. I'd rather not guess and have posts like this, which make everyone not sure of what to say.

Thought provoking thread with many differing answers and I admit I did not read everything here. I can also be hurt and I tend to not read many posts of people who hurt me.

Folks, ignore is your friend. If you find anybody too hard to deal with, you can silence them from talking on your screen.

 

[dstc_99]

Personally when I started this post it was more of an introspective thing. I was remembering the times the kick in the butt was needed and how reading about taking a strong stance makes me feel stronger. More whole. I was also remembering the times when I thought you all were crazy for thinking things would work out.

On the other hand I also remember the gut feeling of anger when someone posted something I found rude or hurtful. I remember feeling shame when I failed to push through and get the result suggested. I also remember backing wayyyyyyy off the board until I felt strong enough to come back.

The point is not that people shouldn't say what they think or that they should send banal replies. The point is that sometimes we forget we are trying to support people and give advice. Sometimes we forget people needing support need are fragile and maybe we should take a second and think before we type. Even when they need a kick in the pants!

I don't think anyone should avoid giving advice and I sure hope no one hits ignore over one comment. That was never the point of this. It was also not the intent to pick on one person which is pretty obvious considering the different points of view expressed. Not everyone feels the way I do so obviously every bodies advice is valued even if it is valued by different people for different reasons.

MWM please don't stop posting to new people. You have more advice and experience than I will ever have. You are certainly more informed. I was trying mostly to remind myself not to be too harsh on new posters but also keep in mind that the harsh words are sometimes necessary.

 

[BusynMember]

dstc_99, I like you very much. I would never put you on ignore. There are people who have hurt me and I don't want to be hurt so I don't let them come on my screen. That's similar to not allowing somebody to post on my FB...lol.

I had a tough love approach thrown at me and I didn't like it at first, but I discovered it was best for me to do it. It took years. Told ya about the therapy group I never went to again, but it stuck in my mind. I am going to back off the newbies because I only know what I have been told in therapy and what has worked for me and maybe for a newbie it is too hard to hear. I truly do not believe anyone should be in an abusive relationship should not allow it in their home. And in my opinion, that includes your adult children. You were not in that situation of being in any danger. Your daughter did not hurt you...some of the newbies are in danger. But maybe it's best not to point that out or to tell them that they are important too and that they matter. Maybe they are not ready to hear that. I have no idea.

I am going to still post with the people I've already posted to and to newbies once they have gotten advice, if they seem open to the only kind of advice I know how to give, which is to take care of yourself. A post like this, not your original post, but the ones that followed made me timid about posting to newbies, at least for now

You take care. You are a good person. Anyone I have on ignore was there on and off before this post so it didn't cause any change. I have learned to do what I have to do to protect myself. in my opinion we are all important and should take care of ourselves as well as our beloved family members

 

[Origami]

MWM, I hope I didn't give the impression that you should censor yourself with newbies because of what I posted before. It's true that I was a little taken aback by some things that were said to me early on, and I wasn't specifically thinking of you, although you do tend to be very direct and to-the-point. There were actually several people who made me step back a bit, but I realize that, although the "tough love" approach might be scary for someone like me who's still in detachment infancy, it's still very valuable to hear from all different voices. I liken the forum to entering a room full of friendly strangers who offer advice from their differing perspectives. Some voices may be direct and forceful, others may be more spiritual and introspective, and still others may be just as confused as me! I have printed out pages of advice from you and others and read it aloud to my husband, so please know that your words are valued more than you realize!

 

[BusynMember]

No, Oragami, trust me. I just am kind of confused about how to approach newbies now and need to think about it

 

[Origami]

Fair enough, but don't think so hard that you stop posting! I always look forward to your insight.

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks! I won't stop posting. I feel like so many people helped me that I should try to give back. Plus the great posters on PE always give me a booster shot when I'm having a moment from difficult child son

 

[ThreeShadows]

I think that it's important to take into consideration the ethnic differences of some who come here from other countries for advice. I remember in particular a young woman who had taken refuge in a nation not her own. A family member was disruptive as well as violent on occasion. None of us could understand why they put up with this behavior and she was frequently advised to just walk away from their turmoil. She pm'ed me that she was from Bosnia. The war had made her family flee. I had followed the horrors brought on by the breaking apart of Yugoslavia because we considered adopting an orphan. Many Bosnians ended up in concentration camps run by the Serbs. Many families had lost multiple members to ethnic cleansing. That's why she couldn't turn her back on her own family. It would have been a betrayal. She didn't tell me anything other than her ethnicity. I had to figure out the rest.

 

[BusynMember]

This is an excellent point, 3, and one I have been very aware of. In some cultures/countries kids live with th eir parents routinely and forever. It's not unusual. Since the majority of us live in the U.S. that is not the case...it is revered to be someone who can stand on one's own two feet and be independent. Others coming from elsewhere or in our country from elsewhere may not understand our need to get our adult children to go out on their own. As close as we may be to our grown kids, it is not the societal norm that generations live together. It was at one time, but it isn't now. And it certainly is not acceptable if a grown child is mooching off the parents. In the U.S., we have to hang onto our money for retirement. Little is offered to us other than our own savings.

This also makes us laugh, but in some places, people think all Americans have money except for the extremely poor minorities. I've talked to people from abroad who thought so before they actually met Americans. That is soooooooooooooooo not true.

Of course, when safety is a factor, to me it should not matter what culture you live in, but there are cultures that tolerate abuse because...well, men are in charge or you are nobody and nothing without your family's name. It is why some cultures have high international adoption rates. Children born without fathers (illegitimate, if you will) have no status at all. Citizens of t heir own country do not open their arms to illegitimate children from their own country thus...international adoption. I hear it is slowly changing. I hope so.

This was the case in the countries we adopted from. It is especially hard for girls born out of wedlock, but no picnic for boys without a name either. And somebody once mentioned that in France it is normal for kids to live at home until they got married, which is fine. Was it you who told us that?

But it is alien to us. When stable girls look for boyfriends who are long term relationship material in the U.S., most quality young women flinch if they hear, "Yeah, I'm 25 and still live with the folks. They still pay my bills."

Cultural differences can cause conflicts. I can see this forum being difficult to understand if you are not from the United States or Canada. Or if you were not raised here to pick up how our country's mindset basically works...I think I remember the woman you are talking about. That was so very sad.

 

[Aimless]

Hi Everyone,
I would like to just thank everyone here for their support, both spoken and unspoken. I also first came to this site feeling broken, defeated, worn thin, and most of all, ALONE after struggling to be the adoptive mom that our difficult child needed. Like many others here, I had spent years struggling silently, keeping my thoughts and fears to myself so that no one would judge my difficult child, myself or my family for the dysfunction were and are experiencing in our home. I was both full supported by some members and attacked outright by others for being honest with how I felt about my parenting experience. I had to walk away from the group for a while and then just be a read only member until now so that I could regroup and find myself again.

I really hope that everyone on this page understands or remembers how they felt before they found this or some other source of support. I needed a safe place to vent or my difficult child. I wandered in here during yet another long sleepless night of praying, worrying, crying, and searching for answers and information about the painful struggling going on in our family. I was scared, angry, hurt, frustrated, isolated, and exhausted, I shared how I felt at the time.

I learned quickly that this is a wonderful place to enjoy cerebral conversations about my difficult child, his diagnoses and general behaviors, but that this is not a soft place to share how I am feeling, often in the moment, about how my difficult child's manipulative behaviors, hateful words and drawn out battles are breaking my heart and withering my spirit. I understand that my feelings are temporary and subject to my current thoughts and experiences, not condemnations, constants, or evidence that I don't love my difficult child. I guess a little emotional honesty is too much to ask for, even in a support group such as this.

I really appreciate everyone just "being here" for me as it restores my hope and renews me daily.

Blessings!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I had spent years struggling silently, keeping my
thoughts and fears to myself so that no one would judge my difficult child, myself or my family for the
dysfunction were and are experiencing in our
home.

AND THEN THERE WAS FACEBOOK

:O)

***

Given that we've been posting, here on the site, about the shocking things our difficult children tend to post, I couldn't resist that FB comment. But the truth is that I was amazed at the way you so beautifully expressed the heart of the issue of parenting a difficult child without blaming or defending or searching for redemption.

"For the dysfunction we were and are experiencing...."

There is no blame in that phrase and yet, it names what is happening and enables me to see it all from a different perspective altogether, a perspective where there is no need to blame anyone or to endlessly plum the depths of spirit to learn how it happened or to figure out how to respond.

The silent struggle, the determination to resolve it within the family...a perfectly balanced, simply stated observation that describes exactly what this has been like for me.

my difficult child's manipulative behaviors, hateful words
and drawn out battles are breaking my heart and withering my spirit.

A beautiful posting.

Thank you so much.

Cedar

 

[Mya_416]

I think all your insight can be very helpful and I look forward To it. I just found this site tonight (another night not able to sleep going through something that none of my friends or family can understand) and find it amazing that other people are out there I can connect with that are going through similar situations. Please if your still out there, read my new post titled "out of home placement?" And I won't take any advice as too harsh more than I'm already giving myself...

I have guilt for fearing my 13 year old abused step son, and considering other living arrangements for him
I have guilt for not being able to protect my 11 year old son from possible violence
I have guilt for having to work and not being home every second to supervise my household
I have guilt for resenting my husband who is too layed back, and doesn't take my fear seriously

So feel free to call me an idiot cause I certainly feel like one, just not sure in which of the above capacity at the moment. :-/

 

[BusynMember]

After reading your post, you are not an idiot. Your husband might be.

Keep yourself and your son safe, even if you have to leave until hubby finds a place for his son to live. This child is in the dangerous category. He shot at your pets with a gun. That's sums it up. That is so far out of the realm of normal that it is frightening. Many dangerous men started with animals as kids. He has crossed many boundaries.

Hugs and stay safe.

 

[recoveringenabler]

You are absolutely NOT an idiot. I read your other post. As the others have said, you are clearly in a dangerous situation which requires immediate attention and an immediate solution where your step son is removed from the home to protect the other members of the family and the pets.

You are not over reacting, this is unfortunately very real and must be horrific for you and your husband. I am so sorry this is happening to you. I do not know a lot about the behaviors your son is exhibiting, but what I hear sounds extremely dangerous. Your younger son should not be left alone with your step son. Your husband needs to get his head out of the sand and protect his family. I understand how difficult this is, however, your step son has experienced some serious abuse and it sounds as if he is suffering too, but the way he is acting out is extreme and dangerous. I believe, as the others have said, that you both need to act on this immediately.

I can't imagine how devastating this is for you and your husband. Once your step son is placed elsewhere, it will be a good idea for the rest of you to seek counseling to come to grips with the level of fear and anxiety you all have been living with.

Keep us posted on your decisions. Wishing you peace...........