Just spoke with PO

[klmno]

Geez MM- did you live in VA when that happened? I'm sorry others have had to go thru this, too. It hoovers. It was the county team that got me- I expected more from them but apparently, they had formed an opinion beforehand- I think they had talked to Department of Juvenile Justice along with the sd. I don't think the principal would have said that I was the problem. I think she would have said that difficult child is having no problems at school, but they are having problems at home. Throw that in with a PO who thinks everything is my fault plus the fact that they clearly wanted Department of Juvenile Justice to foot the bill and the only "therapy" through Department of Juvenile Justice is MST, which they claim I refused- in reality, I went to a hearing and showed evidence from highly renowned psychiatrists who had evaluation'd difficult child that this was not appropriate therapy for difficult child. No one seems to care about the therapy that the psychiatrists recommend.

Anyway, CinVA- I'll pm you the link. There are links that show up on it that give some useful info too.

And to the others offering support- thank you so much!!

 

[Star*]

Well I DO have something to add.......

Call her back
Tell her that you work better if you have a list to go by -
Ask her to send you a copy of what she said yesterday with all the "suggestions" like sending him back to his family and putting him with an abusive foster family (but dont' word it that way )

Then when you go to court - take that paper and show it to the judge.

OMG - I swear, I think this is the same woman who was Dudes caseworker in Department of Juvenile Justice - you know that one that while he was hanging himself with a sheet, after a phone call telling me he was doing it - SHE said - "He's manipulating you and we can't take him off Zoloft, that's not YOUR choice."

Yeah - if i EVER see that woman out of her element? KApow Alice - To da moon.

Hon - I know this is hard, but can you at least make a list or get a list of places in your area that will hand out food, clothes etc......and then take that list with you (signed by every place you visit for rent/utility assistance) either if they could help you or NOT - and take that along to court as well to show them you're trying everything?

Doesn't your county have a truancy officer that will show up at your house to drive your son to school? Maybe you can ask for that????

Hugs

 

[klmno]

Good idea, Star!! I have a call into her to clarify exactly what she ordered because it started out sounding like she ordered just beh mod therapist and nothing else, then when I started saying that it wasn't enough, she acted like I wouldn't listen and that maybe this would be more. I said that's different then. Really, I don't think she gets that there are different types of therapy- not just different types of services. I'm concerned about BOTH. So, if she is ordering a type of therapy that is not consistent with what the profs recommend, just because some guy in a meeting thought difficult child needed consequences for not making it to school, then we are right back to where we were when mst was ordered. I tried to explain that but she cut me off and said I wouldn't listen.

Anyway, I like your idea- I asked mst guy to do that and it helped prove my point. I've tried calling her super today too- I'm not sure if he's the other one from Department of Juvenile Justice that was in that meeting or not. Anyway, his voice mail says he's out of the office, so I haven't left a message. I'm wondering if he's aware that I have written recommendations of what type of therapy difficult child should be getting. Plus, I'm going to plead my case about switching PO's if I can't get difficult child released- since she ordered this instead of letting me get this thru the county team (which was supposed to have been my choice) it means difficult child has to keep a PO.
'

 

[Shari]

If you don't get a list, make one, write it down, nicely, and write a little paragraph before it that says "per our conversation on Jan 29, this is what I understand your suggestions are, please contact me if this is not correct" and send her a copy via email, certified letter, however you can to have proof that you got it to her. Then the ball is in her court - either what she said is correct, or its on her to correct it with you.

Get it in black and white and put the burden on her to correct the list if it doesn't say what she wants. If she's smart and realizes you are playing the paper trail game, she'll start doing things that might be helpful. If she's not so smart (as I'm guessing is the case), she'll let it sit unanswered, and you get to go to the judge with a crazy list of her demands and proof (via non-response) that she told you to do this.

Better than he said/she said.

Otherwise, your story amazes me. Hang in there. It has to get better.

 

[DDD]

Absolutely get documentation. It's the only way you can halfway protect yourself and your son. What a bummer the system can be! DDD

 

[klmno]

I wonder if there's any chance that PO's order will work in my favor by proving that she should not be the cm because she turned around and ordered beh mod even after we already had a hearing last year and judge determined that therapy should be what the profs recommended.

My day was just made- a little. difficult child went to school so he wanted to go out with friends. The friends he mentioned were ok with me- one was his best friend from last year. But since I knew that friendship had gotten rocky and the boy's parents didn't want them hanging around or difficult child at their house, I thought maybe difficult child was lieing so he could hang out with the guy who has a bigger cutting and smoking issue- the one that completely disrespects anything I tell him. But- the 2 boys showed up at the door so I let difficult child go out to play with them a while! Geez- a typical teen event!! It has been months!!

 

[Ropefree]

klmno: You are doing a dynamite job advocating for your sons needs. what I feel makes some of the conversations I have with the people I have to contact who are not acquainted with my son or his actual needs from others is to slow down and use reflective listening. I assume an attitude that whoever I am speaking to is for the best interests of my child and when they send out an option I then restate the idea to confirm that I am listening and hearing what they say. Also i interject affirmative responces to what they are saying to me.
Consiquences are useful. As is a behavior plan and contracts. For example making a contract with my child as per the intensive home therapy was the turning point for my son who eventually changed his approach to the relationship. However it was not by signing the contract he came to change his behavior. It was the direct consequences of breaking the contract which followed him breaking the contract and then breaking it again. THEN he was grounded. THEN he lost all his priviledges.
THEN he had to stay at home even if I was not here myself or he did know he would be going to detention. And when he finally wanted to restore his priveldges and doing so was all he was concerned about...THEN the other stipulations in the contract:his behavior, his grades, his chores, his attitude getting up and going to bed on time EVERYDAY without asking me about the privileges (not my problem. you didn't earn them..no doing chores ONE time is not the habit I require, doing homework ONE time without my remindiing is not the habit I require, I want the habits.)
I understand when you are saying what is true: your son needs to be properly medically treated for his disorder.
Also I do understand that HIS HABITS are learned behavior.
Bipolar people do learn and mostly what they are the best at is learning to control their environment and the people in it to cluster around them and serve their needs for them It is one of the depressive illnesses hallmarks which is letting others do for them what they CAN DO for themselves.
As a family member who has struggled through the morase that a bi-polar disease does bring with it in family dysfuntions and dynamic I do understand personaly how very overwhelming it is as a single parent to do for a child with their own set of problems and issues in the context of an exstended family who is no help, no help whatsoever. And the other well meaning people who do not "get" it and that finite resources and time (and in my case, physical limitations as well) are what I bring to the picnic no matter what the dire situation at hand maybe this time.
The po in this county where i live are so utterly inadiquate to even uphold the laws that they are there to do, and they do know that. It is unbeliebable how much that needs doing is not being done now and hopefully this will improve and change over time.
you take great care to keep the records, letters, ect. One tactic I use to move the
people who are trying to do their part is to accurately list what I have done to meet some goal or reuirement and then ask "Do you have any suggestions where to try next or who to take this matter to for their ideas?" if they do not know an answer then ask "Any idea who might know who would know?"
Another question that has provided me far more help from a person is to ask "What would you do if you were in my shoes? or/and have you dealt with any situations that this reminds you of? "
I am under the impression you have a clear idea what you believe is the answer for your sons treatments needed....and that what is blocking that is the po / judicial
demands yet is there a way that you can turn this into a situation that does serve the ends you are striving to achieve?
CAn your son be required to stay in his room at night when you are asleep or after a certain time and have it so an alarm goes off is he does not so that he is not posing a threat or out and awake and not resting at night?
I clearly do not have any answers for you yet I want you to succeed in your mission and not fall apart from all the tensions you are under, klmno.
I definately want an invite to your party when you announce that this episode is gone to the all good. I am cheering you forward now, and I want to cheer when you find yourself on the other side in the rarified air that I BELIEVE you will find yourself breathing in ease one fine day.

 

[Marguerite]

The suggestions to get it in writing - brilliant. You need a paper trail. And you can use her words to help you get what you want form her.

She says you don't listen - so use that. "I'm not sure exactly what you said and I know it wasimportant. So could you please write it all down for me? That way I will be more able to follow what you want me to do."

Or Shari's suggestion (if the PO fails to follow through and give you aything in writing) - YOU write down what you think she said and send it to her with the sentence attached, "I think this is what you told me. I would love it if you wrote it all out for me, but if you don't get your own copy to me, and if I don't hear from you to say what I've written here is incorrect, I will assume this list is correct and work from it accordingly. I really do want to get this right."

The judge should see your letter, so it needs to be polite, almost fawning (which should make it clear that you aren't anything for the PO to be apparently afraid of). It should alsos shoot the ground from under anyone who accuses you of not being cooperative.

When someone suggests something ridiculous, you have two options:

1) refuse to do it; or

2) do it.

If you refuse to do it, and they have the capacity to make you, then you're going to fight a battle. But if you do it, especially after telling tham that it will be a waste of time, but you demonstrate clearly that you tried, you really did try, to catch water in a sieve, then you can truly say, "OK, we tried it your way. NOW will you listen to me?"

Good luck with this one.

Marg

 

[klmno]

Here's the cincher- one- not all cinchers- the psychiatrist on the MDE said difficult child's big trigger was treating him like a behavior problem (because that reinforces the bad feelings about himself- this is specific to his own issues about his father) and therefore, behavior modification was not recommended for him- cognitive behavioral therapy and psychoeducational therapy is. When she said that, it all fit into place- every time I tried behavior mod before- contracts, etc, at home, with tdocs or when they tried it at school, difficult child got worse. She said that is why.

Rope- could you insert some spaces between paragraphs so I could read your posts? Sorry, but my eyes aren't so good. I did catch one thing- about making difficult child go to bed or something. I cannot make my son stay in bed. I can't lock a room up. I can't make my son stay in one room. Rewards and consequences/punishments do not work when he is cycling. When he's not cycling, we have minimal behavioral issues and no behavior mod is needed- typical allowance system and normal house rules work fine. When my son is cycling, he is like an extremely stoned addict. Can you "force" them to do anything if you are not a policeman or medical staff? No, but it isn't a (street) drug issue- my son has been tested many times- including at psychiatric hospital- and they have always been negative. Now, if they have been compliant with medications and treatment, how much do you punish them after the "episode" for what they did during it?

 

[Marguerite]

This is probably a dumb question, but is there any way to try behaviour modification that won't make him feel like a behaviour problem? I mean, if he doesn't know what it's called...

What I'm usggesting is that at least as far as you're concerned (not difficult child), YOU try and find any possible way that difficult child COULD do the behaviour mod, but only so long as it doesn't let difficult child realise it's behaviour mod that he's doing.

But getting it in writing, and at least appearing to walk some way down that path where the PO wants you to go, at least you won't be looking so much like oppositional on principle (to the PO and therefore to the court).
IN other words, I hear you about the behaviour mod course, but if you apear to give a little, they may be more inclined to give a little your way too. At the moment it's not working - it's irresistible force meeting ythe immovable object.

It's like you're saying to the PO, "OK, I will accept the behaviour mod course, but only as long as difficult child can be kept in the dark about what it is, because we have it on record that when he feels his behaviour is the problem bewing worked on, it makes him a great deal worse. So find a way that will work and we'll be there."

Or words to that effect. Again, it's being cooperative in principle, but making it clear that difficult child's special needs have to be taken into account, even in this.

But if the court is going to insist, having difficult child get much worse could be preferable to having him taken off you and put into foster care (which I think you said you were afraid of them doing?) - where they will do the behaviour mod anyway, but without you to buffer him.

YOU sometimes need to do what you know is wrong, to prevent an even greater wrong.

It's blasted stupid, but that is where we sometimes are forced to go by idiotic bureaucracy.

The first step though - get the PO's words in writing, so SHE knows you have something in writing that she has to own. In doing so she may well modify her expectations and be more malleable.

Marg

 

[klmno]

I'll have to think on that, Marg. Oh- refer to my "spoke with PO's super post" if you have a chance.