Need Advice Fast

[Ephchap]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When I first joined CD, I posted more on other threads than I did on my own. Lately, though, I've taken to lurking and only starting a thread when I need input.
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I honestly don't ever recall you posting to others, Mikey. That being said, there times when we are all more needy than other times, and we just need a shoulder and can't find the words or the energy to post to others. We all totally understand, and have all been there. Hopefully in time, you'll feel comfortable enough to give back a bit to others who post and are also looking for advice or a shoulder. That's what makes this board as wonderful as it is. It's a cycle. I just have not ever noticed you posting to others, myself included.

Our mantra on here is a soft place to land, and that you can take what you need and leave the rest ... so no one is saying that you HAVE to take any advice given.

I hope you don't feel picked on or stop posting. You're absolutely right. If we didn't have good intentions and want to help, we'd just ignore your posts and not respond. It does, however, feel like we're banging our heads against a wall for the most part.

Deb

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many members on here (myself included) who sometimes only get a few responses, and yet you get more than anyone on this entire board, not just teens. I'm assuming it's because you're one of the few men that posts on here. As a moderator, it does, however, frustrate me because other members are not getting these kinds of responses.</div></div>

I hear you on the lack of posts and responses, too. I've seen it, and don't understand it, nor can I explain it. I, also find it curious that a single thread spawns a small novel of responses. I can't explain why that is. Maybe it's how I write? Maybe it's what I write about?

It's my nature to write in a way that invites conversation. I don't know if I should apologize for that, but I acknowledge that it seems to have become disproportionate here in this forum. But I participate when I can, and how I can. I don't say that with any arrogance or expectation, only in humble truth.

If/when my life is less Katrina-like (say, down to a small F4 tornado), I can stretch into other areas. But again, if anyone feels that my membership here is inappropriate, distracting, or otherwise disruptive I will move on (or lurk). I don't want to take away from what others can gain here.

I'm not beating my breast, nor am I fishing for sympathy. But if I'm disruptive here, I will depart.

I'll keep reading, though. The people here who have been there done that, who are facing their own tribulations, are the only people I feel can understand what I'm going through (even if it is via cyberspace). They are my inspiration, and hopefully I can one day get to the point where I am in a better place and can "give back".

I don't know what else to say, other than "Thank you".

Mikey

 

[nvts]

I don't think you're disruptive! I think I'm finally learning something for the future!

me

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

All right, Michael.

I understand your not wanting to have to leave the house and follow the long line of men who did that to their families.

But, I gotta tell ya. If you did, you would be the first one who actually had a reason to.

Get your son into a psychiatric ward, or whatever you want to call it, and if your wife has a stroke about it, leave.

She'll come around later, you know, when your son is still alive.

 

[Mikey]

BBK:

You know, only my mother calls me "Michael", and she's no longer with us. Are you scolding me while trying not to smirk?

That's an especially "catlike" think to do, Ms. Kitty.

:pet:

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand your not wanting to have to leave the house and follow the long line of men who did that to their families.

But, I gotta tell ya. If you did, you would be the first one who actually had a reason to. </div></div>

BBK, since I'm so gabby tonight, I'll give you a twofer with a second reply.

I'm not just trying to break the chain of philandering and absentee men in my family tree. There's also something else: I often don't know what to do, or make the wrong choice. Somtimes, even when I do know what to do I don't have the gonadal fortitude to follow through. But one thing I DO know; right or wrong, if I'm not here, it doesn't matter whether I make the right, wrong, or no choice.

I may not be a pillar of strength, but I'll be here through it all, for what it's worth. I'm hoping that I'm only the start. I looked at my family when I was a kid, and decided that I would do better. How well I've managed to meet that goal is debatable, but I hope that I've done better than my dad and my grand-pappy's. With any luck and a lot of prayer, my sons will want better for their families than they got from me. Even McWeedy, bless his poor THC-infested soul, can use me as a bad example (if nothing else) when he finally has little ones of his own.

Call it stubborn, or "Itralian" (as Beretta would say), whatever. I may not be doing well, but I'm doing better than my old man did. I'll have to be satisfied with that, and hope that my kids surpass me when they are grown.

Okay, whimsical idealization time is over now. Back to reality. :hammer:

Mikey

 

[flutterbee]

Newsflash Mikey: Most of us don't know what to do and make wrong choices. It's called being human.

However, when those that DO know (professionals - doctor from the study - and those that have been there done that time and again) tell you what to do and you don't do it, well...I don't know what to say.

McWeedy is having suicidal thoughts, he's habitually abusing a depressant (pot), has access to other, harder drugs and he's freaked out about having to move out. It's a ticking time-bomb.

 

[tiredmommy]

Mike,
I know just how difficult it is to place someone on a psychiatric ward, even against others misgivings. My mother became extremely violent shortly before my 16th birthday. She slapped me and tried to put out a cigarette on my step-father's forehead. She was throwing things, ranting and raving about taking the rest of with her. I called the police and had her removed to the emergency room, from where she was admitted. My brother was angry with me because I don't think he understood the level of violence she was committing.
My mother's behaviors could no longer be managed at home.
Someone had to make the tough call so I did it. I didn't want her blood or anyone else's on my head because I could see clearly just what she was becoming capable of doing.
FWIW, I don't believe my mother has ever forgiven me. But that's okay because we're all alive.


The fact is, things cannot continue in your home as is. Your son will crash & burn, end up in jail or die. Your daughter will most likely become a rescuer and become involved with someone that needs saving. Your son has driven a huge wedge between your wife, his triangulation is of mammoth proportions. I doubt your marriage will withstand much more of his machinations and I know it won't survive should he die.
You need to figure out a way to get your house back in order. And since you have no control over anyone else, that means putting yourself back in order. Your son and your wife are manipulating and guilting you into accepting your son's aberrant lifestyle either by threatening to leave or suicide. It's abuse, pure and simple.
I can't understand why you accept living like that.

 

[BusynMember]

Thanks for answering my question and at least explaining that you won't change things. There is no such thing as you can't though. It's more that you won't. I don't understand why you'd prefer the life you have, but that's your business. I'll no longer post to you then as you admit you are not asking for help.
Good luck!

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Alright Mr. Ends-in-a-vowel.

First of all, kudos to you, you have already done better than your father, just by admitting that there is a problem in your family and coming here seeking help (well, if that is really what you are doing).

BUT, that is not enough.

Your name must end in a weak vowel, like a Y or something, if you do not have the "gonadal fortitude" to stand up to wife, not for something ridiculous like a big screen television, but for your SON'S LIFE, for crying out loud.

Sorry Paisan, I'm not letting up on you. What the he** are you going to do if he offs himself. Come back here waving another white flag and tell us that we were right? A little late for that. BEG your wife to read the board or attend an Alanon meeting or speak to one of the doctors who said he needs to be admitted.

THE. KID. NEEDS. HELP.

YOUR. WIFE. IS. IN. DENIAL.

GET. YOUR. HEAD. OUT. OF. YOUR. <span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'><span style='font-size: 12'>(_|_)</span></span>



Love, =^..^=

 

[susiestar]

Mikey,

You have been there in the other good and bad times. Your wife has stood by you through them. Your daughter doesn't count. You and wife are setting her up for a life of misery spent rescuing people and leaving them when they are better.

Time to borrow some gonadal fortitude, or whatever you need. Drag wife by the hair to the doctor. Explain what mcW wrote, and what he has been doing. Say you want to hospitalize him, but she doesn't. Let the doctor get through toher. Or have the doctor call to have McW picked up at school or therapy and admitted, if you just can't do it.

If your marriage is going to crumble, if wife is going to leave, at least you will KNOW you tried to save your son.

If they hate you, that is not your business. It is theirs.

I hope that someday you can do what you need to. Otherwise McW is going to continue to rule the roost.


Susie

 

[PonyGirl]

If this were me, honest and truly, what I would do at this point would be to keep my head down.

You've stood up for battle both at home and here, Mikey, and it seems you've been shot down for all your efforts.

I support you in whatever you do, including not taking our advice. I for one do not mind repeating the same advice over & over again. I even do not mind hearing the same problem over & over again.

If your situation were playing itself inside my house, if I were truly in your shoes, I would bury my head in the sand for the next few months where McW is concerned.

Unless and until I had some firm support from my spouse, I would cease and desist all the mind-numbing second-guessing soul-torturing trying-to-help-when-noone-really-wants-it cr@p.

I really would. I would eat a lot of ice cream and watch a lot of movies and wait to turn the calendar to the next month. I would be pleasant and bland and find somewhere else to vent.

Seriously, no matter what you want to do, your wife will not support you and you are probably too late to offer any signifcant positive change on the life McW has chosen for himself. Salvage what you can, save yourself.

Of course if there is any other overt threat from McW about suicide you will need to jump in, but perhaps it will be better received in that next moment.

And in no way would I encourage you to stop posting here. Some members have jumped on you pretty hard and I guess we need that sometimes and you seem to handle it with wonderful grace. I don't want to stop seeing you here.

Just my 8-cents worth.
:warrior:
Peace

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If the poem or note or whatever was written some time ago, how does that affect whether McWeedy could be involuntarily admitted? With our dtr we had to have a witness that the threat was imminent, i.e. within the past 72 hours, IIRC. Otherwise they would not have admitted her for psychiatric evaluation. (She had told her friend that she was going to kill herself, we didn't truly believe it because of a history of threatening suicide and cutting in order to manipulate, but nevertheless had her admitted, mostly to get her in detox and off the street.)

I think a lot of us are reacting to the sense of urgency conveyed by the thread title. I understand completely how the shock of those words on paper would spark an "emergency!" type of post... and indeed, in this kind of case, it IS urgent -- better safe than sorry. on the other hand if the note is old and McW and wife won't consent, what are you gonna do?

I think the advice given by all hands here is sound, but I'm not sure that a big blowup with all family members obliged to choose up sides is going to accomplish anything positive at this point. Would wife at least consent to talking to the docs about the seriousness (this may have been addressed already, I don't remember) of this writing of his? She believes him that he didn't really mean it, and it is very possible he didn't, but there is a chance he did at the time and is lying or honestly doesn't recall how dark his thoughts were. I'm not a psychologist so take that with as much salt as you'd like.

In any case, I feel for you and am keeping your family in my prayers.


(PS -- I did notice that you responded on a number of threads back when you first started posting; it was right after I started posting here and it got my attention that another man had showed up.)

 

[kris]

<span style='font-size: 11'> <span style='font-family: Georgia'> <span style="color: #000099"> i haven't posted probably the whole summer, but i have been lurking. this latest thread of yours has me thoroughly provoked!

repeatedly you have complained that your son categorically refuses any & all suggestion made by you, his docs. teachers, & any one else still listening. take a good hard look in the pal, because that is exactly what you have been doing here for months.

you complain that your son scoops the life & soul out of your family. again, take a look in the mirror. it's exactly what you do here. whine & moan & NEVER make a move to do things differently. trust me, mike, neither will your son nor daughter (when her time comes). the reason will lie squarely on your fine italian shoulder since you have never taught them how to do it differently.

it makes me sad to see someone come to this board & end up doing nothing more than sucking the emotional air out of the place.

kris </span> </span> </span>

 

[jbrain]

I have to agree with HereWeGoAgain--the suicidal thoughts were written some time ago--there does not seem to be an immediate threat and we don't know if there ever was a real threat. But for everyone to act as if it is now an emergency doesn't make sense to me.

I do think wife should be talking to the doctors, not just you. I don't think she is going to put any stock in what you say but she might if she hears it from a "professional."

My difficult child 1 had some suicidal ideation and even took a handful of Ibuprofen one time and ended up in the ER. We told her if she was going to threaten suicide (it was a way to manipulate us) then she would be taken to the ER for an evaluation. She couldn't use it as a tool against us. She was admitted to the adolescent psychiatric unit a couple of times and so she saw we were serious and she quit threatening.

So, I am not saying you shouldn't take suicidal threats or thoughts seriously but it could well be that he didn't mean it as he told your wife or that he meant it at the time but no longer feels that way. It is really a difficult position you are in.

I think you should keep coming here to post if it is helpful to you. If it is annoying to others that you don't take advice they could just skip your threads.

Hugs,
Jane

 

[Terryforvols]

Mikey:
I think the most frustrating part about your situation to me is that your reasoning for not doing anything revolves around "saving" your family. That is noble, but you don't see that your family is being destroyed by McWeedy as long as he gets his way. He has driven a wedge between you and wife, Dancer feels the need to "fix" everything, and Sarge seems to just be angry. There is going to be no real "family" left as long as he is allowed to continue. This is spoken by a person who almost lost a marriage of 25 years (at the time) and whose 23-year-old son was basically neglected (the only word I can think of). My difficult child was so manipulative that my husband stuck his head in the sand (very similar to wife, but not as drastic) and I spent ALL my time and energy thinking I could control difficult child by knowing where she was, who she was with, driving by places, checking her cell phone, etc. I felt that all my time and attention should be directed to difficult child and assumed that since my son was 23, he didn't need as much attention; he became angry with me and his sister for what she was doing. If we had not come together, I would be divorced now, difficult child would either be dead or in jail, and my son would probably look at his parents with disgust. An addict, and I agree with others that pot is not his only drug, will destroy everything in their path as long as they are enabled. wife is living in denial and your marriage seems doomed either way at this point, if you do act against her wishes, or if you agree with her and, God forbid, the worst happens to McWeedy (you will be blamed for not being "stronger" and forcing the issue). As asked above, is is no professional that wife would listen to?

in my humble opinion, if you are not going to do anything about the suicide note, please stay on track to make him leave the house in January, if not sooner. NOTHING will ever improve if you continue this current course. He is not going to magically wake up one day and "see the light". You have no idea about how long I waited for that to happen, believed that if I said it "just one more time" that would be the light bulb moment. Your life, and his, is going to need to get much worse (and I know that is hard to imagine) before it can get better. There were days from 2000-2005 that I could not imagine any hope or any light, and coming to this board in 2004 (I think) and just reading threads and actually taking some of the advice saved me. One of the most important truths to living with an addict is you HAVE to let them suffer (unfortunately, which causes suffering for you too). They have to either hit bottom on their own, or bring the bottom to them. You can't make their life comfortable in any way, or they will never change. McWeedy has no reason to believe you will ever throw him out because you do not stand behind your remarks and he knows he can manipulate his mother. YOU need to decide what is more important, saving your son or continuing to live in a big house of denial. I feel for you, you're in a horrible place, but you will continue to live in a h***-hole until you claw and dig your way out.

Just my opinion, hope it makes some sense. Please get wife to a professional that she will listen to. In my eyes, THAT is the only way to save your family.