Need some advice...Court tomorrow

[WearyMom18]

My daughter has her final court date on Wednesday in the city where she was in drug rehab which is about 5 hrs away. This is for the Class A misdemeanor assault with bodily harm she was arrested for back in November. Her attorney says this will be the last time we have to drive up there, the prosecutor is ready to make an offer for punishment and we will wrap it up. He thinks it's going to be two years deferred adjudication which he says is too long but considering that she also has a pending possession charge in our home county we should take it. I'm fine with that, the issue is whether or not I should take her.

I already have the time approved at work and I have a hotel room reserved because court is at 9 am on wednesday (I don't want to get up and drive at 3am). She said yesterday that she would get herself there; that a friend said she would take her. Okay great but if she doesn't go the bondsman going to be wanting me to pay the full bond because I'm the guarantor because she was a minor at the time. Great...big regret on my part but it is what it is. I told her yesterday to get back to me so I can either plan on going or cancel the room and my time off and I've heard nothing from her.

My gut tells me that I shouldn't take her because this is part of taking accountability and learning how to take care of her business. She told me clearly that she could make it on her own and she didn't want to put up with our 'poop' anymore. I am struggling with it because for my sake and my wallets sake I want to get her there, get the deal done in court and be done with it so I will be officially uninvolved in her problems.

So do I plan on being available tomorrow to take her or because she hasn't gotten back with me should I not worry about it?

It will be easy if she doesn't show up...consequences on her and I'll get stuck with a $750 bond. It could be worse. If she does show up then I'm facing all that cooped up car time, a night in a hotel and a car ride back with her, just her and I. I dread it because last time was horrible.

I do know one thing...if I do take her there will be a rule that if she cussed me, yells at me or otherwise acts ugly to me I will turn around and come home and she can deal with the consequences.

What to do...

 

[Echolette]

I would take the money out of the picture..I mean between gas, food, and lodging you'll be spending a couple of hundred dollars anyway. If you are sure you only stand to lose $750 (sometimes the amount you pay is a fraction of the overall bond, and if they don't show you are actually liable for the full amount, oftenas much as 10x the orignal payment).
That being said...do what you can live with. If you'll sleep better this time next year because you took her, do it. If you feel like a chump being taken advantage of, don't do it. Sit still and listen to your innter voice. Do what it tells you. You are wise. Trust yourself.
Good luck and keep posting.
Echo

 

[Childofmine]

WearyMom, if you can sit tight and do nothing. Don't try to make anything happen. Wait. Lean into the waiting. Just let it wash over you and lean into it, don't harden up against it.

Make a plan about what you will do if she calls....early...or at the last minute...whenever. Will you take her?

I agree to take the money out of the picture. You know the worst---$750. If you can live with that (not like it, just live with it), take that off the table.

Don't start thinking about her "record" either. I used to lie awake at night and obsess about his record, oh, he'll never be able to get a job, college if he ever grows up, etc. It works out. All of it works out.

I so understand what you mean about being in the car with her, etc. When I drove my son to rehab in a city four hours away from here, I dreaded it so much I was nauseous. I concocted all kinds of schemes, should I get my best friend to drive here (from the same city) and ride with me to take him and then come back here? Someone else? Get him a bus ticket? On and on.

In the end I drove him, and he slept the whole way.

It just goes to show that worry is a fast getaway on a wooden horse. (My mother's gift to me, that saying). I used to worry about everything. It was my way of trying to control it.

Lean in. Take your time. Breathe. Just let the universe work and you sit back. After you make your plan---write it down if that helps you---it always helped me---then let it go. Just watch it drift off and turn into smoke.

Things have a way of working themselves out without our help. They really do.

Warm hugs. Keep posting. We're here.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

if she doesn't go the bondsman going to be wanting me to pay the full bond because I'm the guarantor because she was a minor at the time.

There is no right or wrong answer here. This is your daughter, and you love her so much. Something terrible has happened. She still is not listening.

It sounds to me as if she is still being mean and rude and anything but civilized or repentant.

But that's okay. Those are things you have no say in. I wanted them on the table though because this has to be tearing you apart inside where no one can see.

Know that we are holding you in our thoughts as you go through this.

So, on the bond.

You have taken responsibility. If you can afford to lose the money if the worst should happen, then let go now. Whether she lied or told the truth about the friend, she has given you an answer.

Believe her.

She will learn to tell the truth. If the friend does not show, that will be a hard lesson for her.

If you cannot afford to lose the money, then getting her there is your responsibility, period. You signed, she agreed to have you sign. If it takes going to the police to get her there, you are the responsible one for the sake of the money you risked in her name.

As is always the case, if that were my child, I would be solely focused on her and the money wouldn't matter and the way she treated me wouldn't matter and nothing would matter. I would be where you are.

I am so sorry this is happening. I hope she shows up and that this all works out for you both.

I told her yesterday to get back to me so I can either plan on going or cancel the room and my time off and I've heard nothing from her.

If this were me (and I am so grateful that, this one time, it isn't me) I would wish that I would take no answer as an answer and cancel the room and the time off. What I would really do, probably, is wait around to be sure she didn't need me.

If you are strong enough, take what she has given you as the answer to the question.

What she is telling you is that she has this. Her friends are going to stand up for her.

She may even believe it.

so I will be officially uninvolved in her problems.

She is 18. You are officially uninvolved, already.

I kept going to Court for the longest time. I nearly went last December.

My heart made me. My brain never even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.

:O)

So do I plan on being available tomorrow to take her or because she hasn't gotten back with me should I not worry about it?

I'll get stuck with a $750 bond.

Oh, this changes everything. $750 you can afford to lose. I was thinking $10,000 or something. For $750, let go now if you can do it.

Let go of the outcome.

Let go of the fear of the outcome.

Do not go there with her. She is not going to learn, if you do. You have given good advice, you have offered every help you could know to offer, you have posted bond.

Believe what she said.

She does not want you there for this part.

If she changes her mind that will be a good lesson for her. You can afford to lose the $750. This could turn into a way to bring the bottom up and help her realize this is serious.

Hard decisions for you.

However this turns out, whatever you decide, whatever the daughter does, we are right here.

If she does show up then I'm facing all that cooped up car time, a night in a hotel and a car ride back with her, just her and I. I dread it because last time was horrible.

Can you plan now for how you will behave differently this time? Use the pool or weight room, see a movie, go shopping or have dinner somewhere fancy or have your nails done or stay in with a good book. Wear earphones and listen to a book during the drive...maybe "Gaslight", or that one we were all reading awhile back about the sociopath next door.

:O)

That would be mean, I suppose.

We need to learn to see ourselves differently in our relationships to our children. They are not ogres, they are misguided. Until we are comfortable not helping, we need to do our level best to help and then, let go.

This far, and no further.

It's when we don't draw that line that everything turns nightmarish.

What to do...

Your strongest response would be to believe her. She is treating you with utmost and callous disrespect in not responding. Your response is teaching her whether she can continue to do that or not. I will be the first to confess that I allowed my kids to talk to me in such a way and to do things that were bad and to bring people home that horrified me. I didn't know what else to do. They say that, for most of us, if a thief or a murderer came to our door, we would open it and let them in because good manners decrees that we open the stupid door.

It would still be hard for me to stand up even now against what my kids want. But I have learned now to seek those confrontations, and to stand up and stand up.

You will have to learn that too, I think.

It is the right thing when our children are differently wired difficult child kids.

We have to learn to stand up, to believe in ourselves. And we have to learn to let go of the outcome. Whether we have helped or whether we have been able to choose and stick to not helping, we need to let go of the outcome.

I can worry myself to death whether I help or not.

I am learning, too.

Cedar

 

[Tanya M]

Hi Weary,

Bottom line you have to do what you are most comfortable with, what you can live with. Try not to base your decision solely on the money aspect. You did what you felt was right at the time by posting bond, you've learned alot since then. Consider it an expesive lesson. (I've had many)

I know it's easy to say "don't worry" but we're moms and it can be hard not to. @Childofmine has some very good advice about not worrying and to just lean into it, to wait, to breathe. I love the line about "worry is a fast getaway on a wooden horse"

She is an adult and wants to be treated like one even though she may not act like one. The consequences to her actions are hers alone. She will either learn from them or not, that is her choice. This is where we as parents also have a choice, to accept their choice to live their lives they want to and move on with our own lives, or to continue to worry and obsess about them and allow our lives to become stagnant.

I will be keeping good thoughts for you on Wed.

((HUGS)) to you.................

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

worry is a fast getaway on a wooden horse.

True.

Great imagery!

I wanted to add that there was a time when I was allowed to take difficult child daughter out of her treatment center for lunch or something (so, she would have been 15 or 16), and I was so unnerved by everything that I drove with the emergency brake engaged. That the car was actually smoking was pointed out to me by a man in the restaurant parking lot.

I was just so broken, then.

Cedar

 

[WearyMom18]

All of your words make total sense and all things that have passed through my mind in thinking about this. If I were to take her, I would be leaving today in order to drive up there, stay in a hotel and then be in court at 9am tomorrow morning. I told her that I would be at the house at 2pm today ready to go, if she's there I would take her, if not it's on her. I told her that right after she left home this last time.

Now that today is here and it's just hours before I am to either take her or not, my mindset is that I don't want to take her, screw the $750.00, I'll pay the bondsman and let her have a warrant issued or whatever they do in those situations. I'm irritated that when she called me yesterday she said I will let you know soon so you'll know what the deal is and I haven't heard form her since! Not that I should believe even one word that she says at this point but something so small, like making a quick phone call I thought she might actually handle like a young adult. Guess not....

Her lack of regard for anyone else other than herself is so disturbing to me. It's disgusting really which is why I feel such a strong need to have absolutely NO contact with her for a while. I am so frustrated and angry with her I can hardly see straight and I just want a break! Taking her would be so difficult because in order to survive it with a shred of sanity would mean not speaking to her at all. She blows up at everything I say so it would be a headphones all the way kind of trip. I hope she finds her own way, I hope she gets herself there and takes care of her business once and for all so she doesn't have to worry about going up there again but my gut says it won't happen which, as all of you have said, is what I have to let go of. I'm not so much worried about her record like I was before because worrying just hurts me, it doesn't change anything and certainly doesn't affect her in anyway so why should I care?

This momma needs a long break, without her drama and begging and dysfunction, etc. I"m just exhausted and I need her to allow me to have that but I know that's almost laughable because she doesn't care what any of her actions do to me. She wants to call and say she loves me and misses me and it's all crap.... I'm sure she loves me somewhere in there but I have been her punching bag for so many years (all through her teens) that she's just used to me taking her crap. I'm blocking phone numbers left and right and she just won't leave me alone, which I need right now. I feel like she has worn out the 'momma' in me and I just want to tell her that I don't care, I want to be left alone and stop asking me for help! Enough is enough and I'm taking my peace one way or another, by blocking numbers or whatever it takes.

Venting....it's a wonderful thing. =)

I will update, I'm sure, once the 2pm mark has come and gone. I have decided that if she calls late this evening wanting a ride, I will say, I'm sorry but I was ready to leave at 2pm today and you were not here and did not contact me so I won't be going now. You will need to handle it with your attorney, or not, ongoing. If she wants to argue or yell and scream, I will repeat that answer again.

If she shows up wanting me to take her, I will take her but there will be conditions and if she violates them I will turn around and come home. I hope she has it figured out and she won't show but if she does come to the house and wasn't able to make arrangements I will follow my word and take her. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it. LOL

Good grief...I'm gonna be in the looney bin when this is over...LOL

 

[Tanya M]

Vent away!!! That's what we're here for

You are so right in that you need a break. You really should do something for yourself, go for a massage, a shopping spree, a walk, a drive, a movie, anything that you would enjoy.

It is so important during our dealings with our Difficult Child that we take time for ourselves.

I am so impressed with how well you are dealing with her and all that goes with her.......

 

[WearyMom18]

Good grief..the saga continues...it turns out I never should have been worried about court. She has bigger problems.

I got home and immediately got a call from the mother of an ex-boyfriend, the guy she was with before rehab that is in a gang. She said she was calling to tell me that her son is doing time in jail right now and shel isn't with him (don't know why that matters) and that she got a call from another guy, that apparently picked my Difficult Child up off the side of the road. She gave this guy my number so he calls me. My Difficult Child told him that her boyfriend got arrested and she got thrown out of where they were staying and she had no where to go. This guy took her home and said that he could tell she was 'bad off on dope'. She has been at his house since late last week and he said she has broken the windshield in his truck and tore up his console going nuts on drugs I guess. He said he doesn't want to kick her out and he doesn't want to call the police but she needs help.

I told him that he should call the police and have her arrested. He gave me this big story about how he can't call the police to his apartment because he will get in trouble with the management because they will know he is letting someone live there and he doesn't have the heart to put her out. He told me he would pay my gas if I would come get her and get her some rehab or something. I told him I wasn't going to come and get her and that he should call the police. He said he told her if she would get off the dope, he would give her a job at his business and get her a vehicle, etc but she is seriously messed up on drugs and in his words 'her brain is fried'.

I told him I had to go because I did not want to talk to him anyore about my Difficult Child and he said he would keep me posted on how things go. I wanted to tell him that I don't want him to call me! (but I didn't)

So simply put, she is in the throes of a meth high or coming down from it and she's not going to court. That's one.

Two. She is in another town about two hours from here strung out on drugs and staying with some guy that is far older than her and has four kids he's raising. (He is a self-proclaimed ex-addict)

Okay so now I'm getting calls from people who are choosing to help her and want me to do something about it. I HAVE tried to do something about it over and over and over again and she doesn't want the help! All I could think to tell him is to call the cops if he wants her gone.

This is so hurtful but I know I can't do anything! She sobers up for a couple of days, wants to do better with her life and then takes off again. She takes off because we have rules, we won't fund her and because I guess she wants to get drugs. I cannot do the back and forth anymore of her improving then freaking out again and flushing everything down the drain which is why I won't allow her to live at home anymore..

This is hard. I don't want to know the gory details of what she is doing because I can't fix her. I'm so exhausted and my emotions feel numb and I don't want this to bottle up and then I just lose it!

I'm just sick.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Hugs, WM.

Want you to know that I am reading along. This is tough, really tough, probably about as tough as it can get. I am so very sorry.

It is addiction at its ugliest. And, you are powerless to do anything. Only your daughter can get sick enough of this way of "living" to make the right decisions.

I hope you are in a face-to-face support group already. If not, please try to find a meeting tonight.

Others will be around soon with wiser things to say. You and your daughter are certainly on my mind.
Keep posting...but look for a meeting!


Hugs,
SS

 

[TerryJ2]

Ugh. OMG. I am so sorry. I hear you.
You are doing the right thing by letting it play out. Be strong.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

got a call from the mother of an ex-boyfriend, the guy she was with before rehab that is in a gang. She said she was calling to tell me that her son is doing time in jail right now and shel isn't with him (don't know why that matters) and that she got a call from another guy, that apparently picked my Difficult Child up off the side of the road.

Has your daughter been seeing this boy again? That would imply that she made a choice to follow this exact path. That changes what your response should be.

The face to face support group Seeking Strength suggested is a very good idea. Other than a group like that or a professional, keep this confidential for now. This is not for the neighbors, not for the family, not for the best friend to know.

You cannot change what is already done.

You know where she is. You know she is alive.

She gave this guy my number so he calls me.

One step at a time.

Remember to breathe.

It sounds like this male is responsible. He has been where she is. He picked her up. He kept her safe.

If he is in recovery, he will have been through something similar with his own parents.

I think you did the right thing in not bringing her home.

She has been at his house since late last week

Then she is fine right where she is. This is what she chose.

She has been at his house since late last week and he said she has broken the windshield in his truck and tore up his console going nuts on drugs

It is better to know.

he said he would keep me posted

That is something to be grateful for. I have had it both ways. It is worse not to know.

In the night, our own imaginations will tear us apart, if we don't know.

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
the Courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Okay so now I'm getting calls from people who are choosing to help her and want me to do something about it.

If those who are contacting you can get you to do something, they will not have to do anything more. The thing is, no one knows what to do...and really, there is nothing anyone can do.

Only your daughter could change this for herself. She made a different choice.

You did every single thing you knew to do. You posted here just this morning, more worried about her Court date than she was.

Something has happened that you could not have foreseen, and that you could not have stopped, even if you had known.

It is what it is.

I'm so exhausted and my emotions feel numb and I don't want this to bottle up and then I just lose it!

It helps me to name that place. Here on the site, we call it: FOG. When we can recognize we are there, then we recognize we have been traumatized and that we need to take time.

Time.

Take a breath, a deep, cleansing one.

It is what it is.

Take charge of your thoughts to the degree that you can.

No thinking at all right now is best.

There is nothing you need to do.

Exercise, scrub a floor, run hard, scream into a sofa pillow. Get the feelings out where you can see them in private. Then, you can pull yourself together.

The amazing thing is that we can function at all when we are going through things like this.

Cedar

 

[pasajes4]

HUGS. I am so sorry that you are going through this and having some stranger contacting you about what you should do. It is her choice to take drugs. It is his choice to let her stay there and mess up his truck. You do not have to talk to him.

 

[Tanya M]

Oh Weary, I'm so sorry. That's the thing with our Difficult Child, things come out of left field.

First of all, this man that called you, he made a choice to help her, that's on him not you. You now know what number he is calling from so you can add that one to your block list.

You did the right thing by telling him to call the police. Again, it's on him that he chooses not to. I get that he might be an ex addict and wanted to help but that does not negate the responsibility of having someone in his apt. that should not be there. He made a poor choice in that regard.

Even if you did drive the couple of hours to go get her, a lot can happen in a couple of hours. There is no guarantee that she would still be there.

I highly suggest you get hooked with an al-anon meeting. You know that we are always here for you but I do think if you had some face to face help from others who are traversing the same path would be so beneficial to you.

I know how you feel and I know how it can feel like it will never end but I assure you, you will get through this.

Keep posting and let us know how things are going.

from all of us!!!!!

 

[WearyMom18]

I am, somehow, doing really well all things considered. Ever since I joined the forum and began working on detachment and learning how to accept that I cannot control her or her life including the consequences she will suffer I have been so much stronger than I ever thought I could be. It seems strange to me though, that I haven't broken down and cried or felt a deep depression that I have felt many times before. I used to feel such deep desperation and sadness that I thought I would lose my mind. I've called in sick and stayed in bed all day before and I've been so bad that my husband thought I was going to lose it. For whatever reason, this go-'round, I feel stronger but sadly more callous towards my daughter and her life. I keep expecting the hurt to come rushing in and knock me down. I am doing my nails again, which I love doing myself and I'm crafting again which I also love but I have in the back of my mind that by doing these things I'm pushing my emotions down and eventually they will fester up and come out.

Maybe I'm wrong, it hasn't happened yet, I kind of feel like 'out of sight, out of mind'. Maybe I've just never been this sure of what I'm doing before and this is my confidence and strength surfacing. Whatever it is, I'm surviving and I'm doing pretty darn good I think.

I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing...seems to be working for now.

 

[Tanya M]

I am doing my nails again, which I love doing myself and I'm crafting again which I also love

I am so glad that you are doing some things that you enjoy. It's a good thing to start reclaiming your life.

I keep expecting the hurt to come rushing in and knock me down.

in the back of my mind that by doing these things I'm pushing my emotions down and eventually they will fester up and come out.

You are wise to have these thoughts and keep them in check. It's not good to push our emotions down because they will eventually come out and usually not in a good way. I'm not sure that is what you are doing because you are aware of it. Usually when you push your emotions down it's part of denial. I don't think you are in any kind of denial about your daughter. You have come to a place of acceptance which allows you to let go.
There will be times when you will feel your emotions and when those times come you draw on the skills you have learned and you get through it. I remember times early on when I would meet new people and they would ask "do you have any children", I used to dread that question because it's always followed with another question "what does your son do". I remember one time I told this perfect stranger, "well he does jail really well" as soon as I said it I wanted to crawl under a rock. This guy gave a nervous laugh and made his exit. The emotions would dwell up in me but I would maintain control until I was alone, sometimes I would cry and sometimes I would just be so angry at him for putting me in this situation. I felt ashamed and worried what people would think of me. Part of this journey of taking our lives back is letting go of the shame. I no longer dread being asked that question and I certainly do not care what people think. There is so much freedom in letting all of that go.
I don't have much contact with my son anymore, at most a few times a year, sometimes more. Usually when I do hear from him it's because he's in jail. At those times the emotions will come up again but I draw on the skills I've learned and am able to deal with it. I've been dealing with my Difficult Child for 20 years and I still learn new ways to deal with all of it. We never stop learning, we never stop loving but we do stop worrying.

 

[SeekingStrength]

Maybe I'm wrong, it hasn't happened yet, I kind of feel like 'out of sight, out of mind'.

Oh Weary, your comment shouted to me. I feel this very often - out sight, out of mind.....well, it helps me. husband and I talk about D C every day and pray for him several times a day, but it is the not having any contact with him that helps husband and me go about our lives. We have no idea what he is up to day to day.

About a year ago, Difficult Child's girlfriend (a social worker) sent out an email to everybody they knew -including us. Difficult Child told us This will go viral. (and we knew, the email was crafted by both Difficult Child and girlfriend). If it went viral, we never knew. It was NOT on the 6 o'clock news, lol.

One of the comments, supposedly from the expert girlfriend said, "This is not detachment. This is avoidance." I posted much of that email on this forum and got awesome feedback, of course. One member asked if the difficult child got her degree from some dubious online fake school, lol. Made us chuckle.

However, it did not matter. There was not a darn thing we could do to help him. We had tried everything...including several $250/visits for mental health help. Difficult Child did not want it and was not sharing anything with the professionals so that they might help.

At the end of the day, avoidance, detachment?? What difference does it make? We cannot help them until THEY want help. And, then we will know because they will be trying harder than we are. Such a simple litmus test, yet it can take a lot of pain and struggle for us to grasp.

So, out of sight, out of mind is as valuable as anything we might use. in my humble opinion

 

[Childofmine]

Weary, hang in there. She is rushing to a bottom. Hopefully the bottom.

Keep on doing everything you can to help yourself and take each "event" as it comes and deal with it then, as you decide to then.

You are right. She has much bigger problems than appearing in court. You already knew that, and these current events are just more confirmation.

The logistics are details, where she is living, what drugs she is doing, the court. What is important is that she is ramping up her addiction, and when that happens---I have seen it over and over again with my son---there will be a turn of events, either jail, or the hospital or rehab.

That is what has to happen with our difficult child kids. It's awful painful ugly and deeply scary.

I am so thankful that you are hanging on to your sanity and have turned a corner. That is a good thing, and not something to feel bad or guilty about. It is what IS.

Lots of good things are being said to you here. Most of us have been in the exact same situation with the phone calls, drama, "nowhere to go," etc. My son broke into my garage on a Thanksgiving Day, he stole from the neighbors, our good friends, he holed up in his dad's garage and cut his wrist and texted a picture to his girlfriend who called me, and I met the police there.

On and on with the drama. This is what they do on the way to the bottom.

Hang in there. Take care of YOU. Something will change soon. And I am praying it is a start on the way back up for her.

 

[PatriotsGirl]

My daughter's doctor was meth, too. It is ugly. REAL ugly. She was a completely different person on that crap. We went through hades for YEARS. Jail was the BEST thing that happened to my daughter. She got pregnant and then got arrested for a misdemeanor. I called the courts and immediately started working with them on getting my daughter help. They kept her in jail for the duration of her pregnancy as to keep the baby safe. She came back home after she had our grandson and was doing really, really well for a while but then relapsed and spiraled downward. Not even her son was enough to stay clean. But she had had enough. She prayed to God to help her because she knew she couldn't do it on her own and she was too ashamed/scared to come to us. Right after that, she failed a drug test at probation and went back to jail. She wanted help so much that she started writing rehabs on her own that she found through the ministry. Her probation officer found a miracle one that is VERY religious and she has been there since December 22nd. She is doing SO well!!! <3 Our relationship is better than it has ever been.

Your daughter NEEDS help. Meth is VERY, VERY hard to stop on your own. BUT, she does have to want it or it will all be for not. You can't want it more than she does...

(((HUGS)))

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

At the end of the day, avoidance, detachment?? What difference does it make? We cannot help them until THEY want help. And, then we will know because they will be trying harder than we are. Such a simple litmus test, yet it can take a lot of pain and struggle for us to grasp.

I think the kids do not even see that they need help. It's like when they were little and couldn't find you. They would say, "Mommy was lost." It's the same thing with drug use, I think. They know where they are. We are the ones who know they are not where they were meant to be.

I am glad you are feeling better, Weary.

:O)

Cedar