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[P126 Mum]

Thank you all for your encouraging words. All great thoughts. Ultimately it is his decision. As long as my parents keep providing him housing, I know he still won't be forced to know what if feels like to fend for himself. Perhaps that is what will shake him. Only time will tell.

I ended up having a decent valentine's day with friends and we had the first warm weather day in months. I really savored the peace as I walked in a park. I used to take nature walks all the time before the difficult child drama began 2 years ago. I almost remembered what that felt like. Warm weather makes me happy. Maybe I have seasonal affective disorder, this has crossed my mind. I get pretty down in the winter days. But that's another show. ha

I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend and enjoying some bit of peace..

Hugs--

Hi
I'm from UK and just browsing on line seeking help to understand my daughter when I came across this site and have been reading threads on and off most of the day.
Wavering faith, so touched by your story , your honesty and your strength and clarity of mind. As it is Septemeber 2015 Im wondering how you are.
I have 18 yr old daughter, who is extremely, highly academic and as a child the joy of meeting with her teachers and learning of her achievements and gifts and talents left me walking on cloud 9.
She was a quiet child, popular sensitive and always well behaved.
However looking back I remember how she would never reply when spoken to, called for dinner, get ready to get in the car we're waiting
This and many other incidents has now lead to a child who can't look at me. Never tells me where she is. She hates the fact that she will be financially supported by me (university)as she wants nothing to do with me and does not want to " owe" me anything. ( thank you, birthday card, Mother's Day card, how are you)
Still married to her father who is a liar, emtionally abusive,and makes no secret of the fact he visits prostitues

Having no money I had to endure the situation which I thought was best for them ( boy of 15) now nearly 58 if I split and take my share of money it will not be enough to buy anywhere, can't move to another area due to work and other child school. Can't do anything to disrupt son while at school
She is dirty, moody, does not eat or sleep. Very quick to anger and her facial expression always tightens when she turns to look at me. The wave of hate is what I call it. Her father is also dirty in the house and my request to shut cupboard doors, bring down washing, place cups in dishwasher rather than piling them up beside it only lead to dispute. Where both call me swear words, a nag , and if you're so bothered do it yourself. Of course I then leave things go and say nothing and at times he will move a few things and proclaim sainthood. I know he was role modelled for her, but with such intelligence how can she choose his way. She is a darling with her friends.
I hate coming home and often delay at work, park some where and Pray. Over time I have discovered Oppostional defiant disorder and was staggered to have some evidence that I'm not crazy and they both fit the bill. So much more has happened which would be too much for now to write. No help here in UK, people don't know what your on about and doctors don't know where to send you for help and advice. I do mean me and not my daughter ( of course there is nothing wrong with her)I live a very straight life, just work and back. Have isolated myself as I do not want to reveal any area of this to people for the shame I feel. The only thing I have found so comforting is a Christian church and on line ministers form the U.S. Having said all the above I really do believe in God to turn this situation around and give me back my daughter as there is nothing and no one who can do it. He can do what he likes with the husband. All you ladies are brilliant to still be standing and I realise how much more you have suffered, Compared to what you have just read by me. I support the decisions you have made to " put them out" there have been one or two people who say it worked for them when they were the problem child. No matter where we all are in the world Mums have it tough. I have tortured myself so many times, question what I did and did not do,if I had the chance to go back in time how far back would I need to go to catch it at the start and fix it.
I'm rambling sorry, it's late here .x

 

[Childofmine]

P126Mum, welcome to the forum. I'm so sorry that you are isolated from both your husband and your daughter, and right now it seems like there is no way out.

I don't think anyone should have to live the way you are living, with two virtual strangers in your own home, but I know people who have had to do it for a while...myself included before my divorce. I hope you can begin to make plans to create a safe and peaceful haven for yourself somewhere, somehow. I have come to believe, through my own difficulties in my first marriage, and through my son's problems, that having a home that is a sanctuary is just about a sacred thing for me. I must have it in order to deal with life.

That said, I understand that you are in a hard situation right now, a no-win situation, with your husband and daughter, and having a son you are trying to think of first.

You talk about shame. I don't see any shame here. Your husband and your daughter are their own people, and doing whatever they decide to do. That isn't on you. Your daughter's problems very likely have little to nothing at all to do with you.

Once our children are adults, if they can't act like adults and comply with society's most basic rules, like being cordial, picking up after themselves, paying their share, working, etc., in my opinion it's time for them to go. Is that a possibility for your daughter, moving out? At least then you would just have one difficult person in the house.

I'm just so sorry. Please tell us more when you can. I wish I had some bright ideas that you hadn't already considered, but I'm sure you've been around the block a hundred times already. Please keep sharing. We're here for you, and we care.

 

[A dad]

This is a problem the fact that the OP is not the only one needed to make the daughter move there is also her husband there. From what I understand to kick your child out both parents need to agree. What is you husband's opinion on your daughter?

 

[Copabanana]

Hi P126Mum.

Welcome to the board. I am sorry you are suffering. But it brought you here. That is a good thing.

We always have a choice. Most of the time there is not one perfect choice. Sometime we have to pick the best choice of bad ones...all of them seem flawed in some way. The least flawed choice is the best one. I believe that when you look at your options...and really think them through...a path for you will emerge.

The situation you describe is not uncommon in my experience. I know you miss your daughter and I hear your concern. Often girls will side with their fathers...against the mother. Sometimes they try to protect the father who they see as weaker. They know the mother is strong enough to take care of herself. I was that way.

Actually, I think the first decisions to make are about you. How can you begin to feel better about yourself? How can you have a safe place to be emotionally and spiritually?

Right now it seems to be in your car. That is not enough. I would want to gradually expand the activities and people and places in my life where I felt a sense of contentment, hope and safety.

If you do that, your relationship with your daughter might begin to change, too.

It sounds as if both your husband and yourself have pretty much given up on the marriage for all intents and purposes. It would not be good for me to stay where I was not respected and not considered. It is not good for our children to see us treated this way.

Living in a household where there is hostility and stress can be hurtful to children. Not disrupting your son's school is not the only important thing. The family status quo affects him too. Your state of mind and seeing that you are treated as someone worthy of respect is important too. To you and to both of your children.

Sometimes when we are depressed it feels like we have no options. That happened to me.

Each of us has value. Sometimes we have to decide to consider ourselves as worthy...as the first step. Everything else will follow from that.

Does this in my life make me feel as I have worth? Does that? What will? And go from there.

You have a good start with your Christian Faith.

You will find community here. Keep posting. I am glad you found us.

COPA

 

[P126 Mum]

Wow, I only posted last night such lovely replies from you all, thank you so much.

To give a clearer picture without too much rambling.
Got married and had first child. Notice husband was always delayed, went to shop longest queue ever, train delayed, just missed it had to wait, went bank - customer service advisor useless had to wait to see manager. Check details of story with him and he would storm out, get angry, turn on me to shift the focus etc. he was gambling. I was not working he was sole earner and in charge. My parents not wealthy, but would give the shirt from their back, paid for car maintenance, and other bills to help us out. Second child born. Gave limited help with housework. Never do any thing without me asking nicely and explaining why I needed help. Would half do things,vacuum downstairs do upstairs tomorrow then have an excuse not to the next day, same with cutting grass. Ask for help when bathing the children, if one got upset or had a tantrum he needed to pop to the loo downstairs, come back when all is calm. As they got older he spent less time with us due to delays!! Never ever took the children anywhere on his own as it may be hard work.
Roll on a few years, I have shut down and hate him. The deceit the lies and dirt and smell of him. Embarrassed to be seen with him, always scruffy. Tell him his shirt is sticking out, shoe lace undone he would immediately get annoyed. Once we were going to a school meeting and his trousers were not zipped up. I highlighted it to him, a normal reaction from anyone would be to quickly check. His normal reaction was to grit his teeth and tell me to shut up. He twists tissues and stuffs them up his nose to clean it and they are always dropped on the floor. Point this out to him and ask him not to drop them and he grits teeth saying they're not mine, when you see them why don't you pick them up. When he wakes he has this enormous cough and throat clearing session, which makes me feel sick. He goes to the toilet to spit and leaves slim spattered on to the taps in the sink and the side of the sink.
Wears the same clothes for days . I stopped doing his washing a few years ago when I kept protesting that I had just washed and hung clothes only to see them dropped on floor and walked on. He appears to want to look like and unkempt tramp to in some weird way gain pity from whom I'm not sure. He tells me I need to see a doctor!. He works full time but also does regular cash in hand driving job. Never gives any money and has obviously now got a huge stash of money hidden ( this has been happening now for almost 10 yrs) good thing is he is out of the house all week end and comes home at 4 am. Sleeps on sofa despite there being a spare room but likes to look like a victim on the sofa in front of our children.Always says he is broke and has debts to pay etc. ask what debts, how did this happen show me the letters. Storms out bangs doors same old routine. I work 30 hours a week, salary paid to joint account which also has his salary from day job. Pays bills little left for life.
So now you can see a picture that my children have grown up in.
As he spent so much time out of the house it was better for them. I managed to get them through school, arrange for friends over, any activity they wanted I took them to, party's, parks, bike rides, dancing, drama I covered all their physical and emotional needs as best I could while I sacrificed any life for myself as they were my reason for being.
I had no job at the time. If I could have lined up a house I would have fled in the night, but it was not possible so I made the decision to make it the best I could for the children. I would like to add I never went out, don't drink, don't smoke, no scandal.
So now my daughter follows her fathers example and knits words and sentences together that he has spoken for years. I sometimes thinks she resents my weakness. We spoke once and I told her why I stayed. She told me it was horrible growing up in the atmosphere and I should have left. That really hurt as I thought I had protected them from so much when they were litte. She refuses to consider his working and stashing of cash and believes him when he says he works so hard to pay our bills. She trashes the house worse than he ever did. Her clothes are in piles on the floor. Kitchen cupboards and drawers left wide open after use. Both seem to to this as deliberate attempts to provoke. She is going to university so we will give her living expenses. And I can't wait for her to go. I understand people thinking I should Go, get out. I have been to solicitor twice to check details of divorce. It takes all my strength to live this life. If I serve papers I have at least 1-2 Years of hell. As I would ask for banks to be searched and his money traced. I think with that going on I would seriously have a heart attack from the extra stress. If I could move out while all this took place it would be great. But money from the sale of house would take ages and still once divided would not give me anywhere near enough to find another place due to property prices and my age to get additional funds. My children resenting me further. My son is now moody, copying sisters actions, giving me back chat and being messy as it is much easier to be with the crowd. My strongest desire is to take him away from it all before the posoin reaches his bones. Also he had a terrible time being bullied at school suffered panic attaks and had treatment, so he really likes to be accepted. Hence join them. The stumbling block to this is lack of money. If I could afford somewhere in my own right, I would be there in a flash. I have distanced myself from people so many times. People ask normal questions, where is your husband, is he coming is he still working long hours, are you going on holiday, we must all try and meet up. The pain of this snap shot of normal life is too much for me And I slip away. I don't want to unveil my life to people I don't know well. I would feel judged and pitied. I have learnt to be very deflective and can steer the conversation when I sense it coming to close for comfort. I had 2 close friends who knew my position well. However I found that when I told them the latest episode their reactions was first pity and then constant questions well,what you going to do , I couldn't stand that, I'd kill him, I'd tell him, I would take that,no way. That made me feel absolutely terrible, useless and dumb.I have distanced myself from them too, I felt they only wanted to know the details of the latest tale as if it were a live TV drama unfolding and it was more of interest rather than care. I love going to work. No one knows anything about my life and it is the only place I am myself. If I had the way out , a place to go to it would.be over. As I said before there is no way out, no where I can stay and that is why I have handed it to God. I can't do it alone.

 

[BusynMember]

Oh hon. Do you have domestic abuse shelters there? I feel you are being greatly abused. It is not just if he or daughter hit you. They are destroying your self worth. And can you request to see a therapist to help validate your decisions? Maybe its just me, but I could not live with somebody like your husband and daughter is old enough to be on her own, without you. She may have inherted some of husbands personality. Also, nobody ever taught her to take care of her space. Maybe that is why she is messy. She may not even know how to organize her room to make it neat. Some people need to be taught. I grew up in chaos and did not learn many skills most kids learn at home.

It is not always best to stay. A nice but screaming house is not, in my opinion, better for the kids than a peaceful, loving environment in an apartment.

Nobody can decide your path for you. We can only tell you what we would do or what we did. My divorce was scary, but a good decision for the family and I met a wonderful man after divorce and have two kids we raised together. Those two kids, brought up without much money but without chaos and with love, are calmer and more stable than the two raised in a loveless home.

You matter too. You deserve peace and stability in your life. You deserve a clean home and a quiet one. I feel our homes, however humble, should be our sanctuaries. You can decide that as well.

You have decisions to make if you want things to change and to be better for your son and you and maybe eventually your daughter. If you do not make changes your life will probably stay the same.

Divoce is hard. When I did it I had no family support at all and no money I lived on my small salary and child support until I met my second husband who has been so good to me.

I hope some things we have told you let you see that you are not trapped and that you matter.

Wishing you only the best. Keep us updated. We care.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The behaviours you describe really sound like mental health issues. And mental health issues can be passed on to children. This isn't just about him being unreasonable and abusive - but that IS the end result, and you do not have to live with it.

Please contact a domestic violence support. They can help you plan your escape, can help with the whole process. But you really need to protect your own sanity, and possibly your son. There is hope. There IS help. It will be a long ugly process, yes. But nobody, NOBODY, needs to live like this.

Sending major hugs.

 

[Copabanana]

Mum, you are strong, not weak. You did what you thought you had to do. All of the past is just that: past.

You have decided to change and you are doing it.

Today and every day from now on, you can do at least one thing to change things, to make them better. You have already started.

We are your friends, now. Tell us what you can and will do. Even if it seems like a little thing. Everything we can do for ourselves is a big thing. We understand. We have done it. You can too. You will.

Copa

 

[P126 Mum]

Oh my gosh Ladies I feel swept away, thank you so much.

Just to add a little further info. I am in UK, things probably work a lot differently.
I have always kept myself smart and the house tidy telling my children to tidy, shoes in cupboard, coats on the rack when we came in from school. I had some control and authority then and husband was rarely around. They all liked the house clean, pot porri, plug in air freshner and a vase of flowers. What happened was he would say don't keep on to them, stop nagging them and me. You're their mother home all day doing nothing and the minute they come fro. School

 

[P126 Mum]

Sorry iPad jumped.
The minute they come from school your nagging them about their coat. Roll that out a couple of times and they like the sound of it. The tide started to turn. He seen he was upsetting the flow and annoying me. Did not care he would play with their minds just as long as he was winning against me. Evil man.
I can't go to a domestic violence place. I've not ever been hit but do understand the emotional abuse is relevant. Brace yourselves I work with agencies who refer families to such places. I know inside out what the outcomes are, they are not as positive as we would like. Not going there ever plus I feel it would be conflict of interest.
I have spoke to family doctor, got daughter referred to psychologist. She went twice and that was that. Then I went back saying I needed advice and help dealing with her. Got referred, got phone call and then one week later told I fell outside the boundaries as she was not a run away, drugs, out of education etc. so no help in UK until now - finding this site!! Thank goodness.
My son has had a lot of rejection from peers and it is him I am guarding as this year is a very important year of exams and he is finally happy and settling. He would also like to move from the area and wishes we could win the lottery!! Don't we all.
My heart breaks as daughter would,not be anything like this if her father had been a man of integrity, normal person, family man.
Incidentally he hates everyone, the window cleaner won't come to the house anymore, don't know why.
He always made a fuss in a bank, shop, restaurant and needed to see the manager when he did not get his way with things.
When out shopping if some one knocked against his trolley and did not apologise he would meet them down the next isle and block the middle making it difficult to pass . We have not been in shops or restaurants together for about 3 years now. Thank you Mums for your time, support and care x

 

[AppleCori]

Hi PMum,

Welcome to the forum!

I'm very glad you have found us.

What a horrible situation you are in. Your home life sounds unbearable. I feel bad for you. Do you have a plan to leave once 15yo leaves home? Can you stay married and living with this man, knowing the way he treats you?

Keep posting.

We are here for you.

Apple

 

[P126 Mum]

Hi AppleCori

Thank you for your post.

I am trying to hold on for something. Not sure what.
But once my son leaves for uni and it is just me and him in the house I will vacate very quickly.

My dream is to gather any small pieces of info ie the other day I found something a bank account and number . I want to place all info with a solicitor, have written any letters I need to inform of change of address. Then get out quick leaving a letter on the table for him. I envisage his rage and absolute shock. I'm not there to take the sweat. It will be like the walls of Jericho coming down.

That is the only safe way I can see this exit.it won't matter where I stay at that time as it will only be myself I have to look after. So looking at Sept. 2017