New to ODD need help/advice

[GuideMe]

Well, you are going to have to do what you have to do Drew. It may help, you are right and I hope it does. Please let us know how it went.

They came and calmed her down but that's not normal behavior.

Again, you are not listening, it is NOT abnormal behavior either, in this day in age, now that we see more than ever what really goes on in peoples homes thanks to tv and the internet. At least what your daughter seems like, does not scream to me, throw into residential treatment type behavior (at least not yet). I mean, I think if every parent did that, I think 75% of the teen population would be in Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Lol. I mean come on, be reasonable, and serious now. Some people may disagree and say that 80% of the teenage population are totally normal, want to do well, listen and behave well, children........well, I happen to totally disagree with that number. We have to face reality here. Honestly

However, these are just my opinions and I wish you well Drew. I hope she gets and accepts the help that she needs. She is growing up, she is not as young as you think she is. Good luck!

And in all honesty, I really hope Residential Treatment Center (RTC) works for you. Let us know if you find one and if she went.

 

[GuideMe]

I took some time to think about it, and I want to apologize for coming off so strong. I still feel the way I feel. However, I truly believe your daughter has a true blue gaming addiction, which most likely accounts for the not showering and things of that nature. You kind of gave her the ok to use this as her social outlet but now it has morphed into something else. Which was bound to happen because as I said earlier, I know first hand how those games are, like Minecraft. My ex-husband (and this is really sad and pathetic) was heavily addicted to gaming. If you do a simple google search, you will see how addicting these games really are, which is part of the reason why I said she is not behaving abnormally for someone who plays these types of games. I understand your worries and concerns, I TRULY do. Maybe Residential Treatment Center (RTC) will help. I just never heard of them taking anyone in who isn't suicidal or on drugs. That's what I thought Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s were for. Please let me know how it goes. I would be interested in knowing if it helped. Do you have plans for her when she gets out as to what you are going to do about the computer and gaming? Just a word of advice. There is no in between with those games. It's either you devote your life fully to them or not play them at all. That is actually how they are set up to be. Maybe you should learn more about those types of games, they are not something to take lightly. Maybe when you are fully aware of what you are dealing with, then maybe you can help your daughter more and more effectively. Anyway, again, good luck.

 

[Drew64]

I am fully aware of the games I play my self at times. I keep up to date on all the tech stuff because I like them. Residential Treatment Center (RTC) see more than just drug or suicide people. It's for behavioral as well now a days.

 

[GuideMe]

I am fully aware of the games I play my self at times. I keep up to date on all the tech stuff because I like them

Interesting. What games do you play if you don't mind me asking? They may not be of the same nature of games like Minecraft. My ex was addicted to World of Warcraft. You would never know it though unless you lived with him. He held a great job, for many years, still does, perfect credit, completely responsible....but when all that was done, he would come home and be on the computer for 12 hours a time. It was devastating.

Residential Treatment Center (RTC) see more than just drug or suicide people. It's for behavioral as well now a days.

Well, if it is for behavioral as well, how come you're having such a hard time finding one? And why would you have to get someone hospitalized to even get in there? If you say she has to be hospitalized, that can only mean one thing, a suicide attempt. No hospital is going to hospitalize her for what you're describing. Can you understand my confusion? I truly wonder if there are residential treatment centers out there (that are covered by insurance, that's a huge one) that deal with behavioral and mental health issues only and absence of drug abuse. I know if you have money, there are places like that for sure. But I'm guessing you don't have the money for those types of places because you said you are only looking for places covered by your insurance. Insurance companies are very strict so good luck getting her in there on a gaming addiction and some other not severe issues. Just be sure you don't put her in a facility that doesn't deal with her issues specifically. Meaning , don't put her in a facility that is just for suicide attempts or drug related issues just to get her out of the house and hoping she learns something, anything. That is the worse thing you can do.

 

[Drew64]

I have played minecraft myself wanted to test the waters before she started. I have a hard time finding a facility in this state because there aren't any good ones. Other states do have facilities. Some have very good ones with schools. As for the hospital she could be admitted if she were a danger to herself or others. She did not attempt suicide. She may have said she wanted to but sometimes teens say things. I don't know what area you are from but most residential facilities have kids that have multiple issues from drugs to suicide to defiance and so on. We have a case manager from our state assigned to us since she was in hospital. She is the one looking at facilities and doing research. I am doing my own as well. I have on facility that has residential a hospital and alternative school all on same campus. Meets State core curriculum. So yes if you research they are out there. There are also therapeutic boarding schools which we looked at but are very expensive. As far as residential the state pays for it under Medicaid since she would get a card under the services she has now. The school would cover the school part. My private insurance would cover it as well since the few facilities I looked at are in network. Even some of the out of state hospitals for teens would be covered. Some are short term to get them stable. So believe me. I have not taken this lightly. It eats me up,all night thinking about it. I came to forum looking for some advice on facilities in my area or if people had any experience with them.

 

[BusynMember]

Ok, ok, ok. First of all, my foster child was not into drugs. He was very young. Yes, they do take children who have problems that are not drug related, such as behavioral and mental health issues. He did go to a psychiatric hospital first and that is how he got in, but I doubt it helped him much. However, he is one child and this is another child and no two children are the same or have the same needs.

Our advice is advice. It is not dogma. It is not everyone's reality. It comes from our own experiences and there are infinite experiences in child rearing. I did raise a daughter in the techie age. Her name is Jumper. Or I call her that here. She is 18. My grandson is even more into early technology. So some of us have raised kids and have grandkids in this day and age and we know.

Not all teens, or even most, scream and yell and pull knives because of being deprived of computers, no matter when they they were brought up in, and it is NOT the norm. There are a lot of kids who do like computer games a lot. I'm not as vehementaly against it as others may be. The way I have seen it disrespectful difficult children yell and scream at their parents, not normal teens. And it's not just over computer games. I've raised both. Although we do bring our own experiences here, this not not make us experts and does not make our advice right or wrong. An opinion is not right or wrong and it can't be. It is simply an opinion.

I suggest, Drew, that you get her any sort of help you feel is appropriate for her, just as all of us have done for our children. It sounds to me, and here is MY experiences coming to light, that she may be one of those marginal kids who could be on the autism spectrum and get obsessed with techie stuff which is very common for spectrumers and staying in her room and neglecting hygiene are two big traits of kids on the spectrum. Perhaps, before you put her anywhere, taking her to a neuropsychologist for a complete evaluation would help you decide what is best for her.

Most of us on this board do not respect the ODD as a real diagnosis anyway. It is sort of a "I don't know what is causing it" type of thing.

A neuropsychologist is a very reliable diagnostician, although anyone can make a mistake, as my neuropsychologist from Mayo told me. My son was evaluated for ten hours and his diagnosis was no surprise...we were "up" on this disorder. He is not a volatile person, but many on the spectrum have lowered frustration rates, can't stand loud noise, hate crowds, have no idea how to socialize and seem to have no empathy, although they actually do have it, but don't understand how to express it. Often it is wrongly diagnosed because it is a neurological difference, not a psychiatric problem. Most psychiatrists plain don't understand Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). That's why a neuropsychologist is a better fit to test for childhood disorders of any/all kinds. You may want to do that. You may want to take her straight to residential. If it were MY child, I would have her totally evaluated first by a neuropsychologist. You can bring up gaming concerns to the diagnostician. These are psychologists with extra training in the brain and they do real testing in every area of function.

Sir, whatever you decide to do, we will support you. There are unfortunately no right or wrong answers. I also would not jump to residential treatment before getting a good handle on the diagnosis and try outpatient first, especially if it turns out to be something unexpected. But if you do it, we will support you, as a group. Your child certainly may not be on the autism spectrum, but she has some big red flags and it should be looked into as well as other issues that may make her tick. You say you are close to her. I believe you. Therefore you know her better than anyone else.

I wish you luck. Keep posting. Others will come along too and give feedback. Take what you find worthwhile and disregard the rest. It is really what all of us do Have a good day.

 

[GuideMe]

I have played minecraft myself wanted to test the waters before she started. I have a hard time finding a facility in this state because there aren't any good ones. Other states do have facilities. Some have very good ones with schools. As for the hospital she could be admitted if she were a danger to herself or others. She did not attempt suicide. She may have said she wanted to but sometimes teens say things. I don't know what area you are from but most residential facilities have kids that have multiple issues from drugs to suicide to defiance and so on. We have a case manager from our state assigned to us since she was in hospital. She is the one looking at facilities and doing research. I am doing my own as well. I have on facility that has residential a hospital and alternative school all on same campus. Meets State core curriculum. So yes if you research they are out there. There are also therapeutic boarding schools which we looked at but are very expensive. As far as residential the state pays for it under Medicaid since she would get a card under the services she has now. The school would cover the school part. My private insurance would cover it as well since the few facilities I looked at are in network. Even some of the out of state hospitals for teens would be covered. Some are short term to get them stable. So believe me. I have not taken this lightly. It eats me up,all night thinking about it. I came to forum looking for some advice on facilities in my area or if people had any experience with them.

Well, all I know personally is that those are hard waters to navigate and understand why you are looking for advice on how to navigate them. Insurance, eligibility, guidelines for these types of places are so hard to know. Unfortunately, from what I read here and on other forums, it is so situation specific because everyone has different insurances, different schools, different states, different circumstances, that I haven't seen anyone who could really and truly give the kind of guidance (that would actually work) you are looking for except for the research that you have already already done yourself and that lead you here to ask questions. I hope you do find a place that is really good for your daughter. I hope they truly help her. I agree, she can not just sit around and do nothing and waste away. That is not healthy for her for sure.

I don't understand how you can have private and medicaid insurance though. I was under the impression that a child could not qualify for medicaid if either parent has private insurance. However, that is not for me to figure out. If you say it's so, then it is so.

All you really can do is wait for the case manager to find something if you can't.

 

[Drew64]

I appreciate all the input. I have had different people tell us different things. Sometimes I believe them sometimes not. Everyone's situation is different I agree. In this state i. I. We have a program that when released from a hospital they get a case manager and an in home therapist and a family support person. They also get Medicaid card that covers this program only no other medical bills. So all the residential stuff is covered by medicaid except the school part which the district is willing to pick up. As for autism spectrum I don't know a lot about that. I know my daughter was evaluated for ADHD at a young age. Did the normal kid stuff. Played sports up until this year. I can always have her tested. She just finished getting tested from school as per her IEP.

 

[GuideMe]

I appreciate all the input. I have had different people tell us different things. Sometimes I believe them sometimes not. Everyone's situation is different I agree. In this state i. I. We have a program that when released from a hospital they get a case manager and an in home therapist and a family support person. They also get Medicaid card that covers this program only no other medical bills. So all the residential stuff is covered by medicaid except the school part which the district is willing to pick up. As for autism spectrum I don't know a lot about that. I know my daughter was evaluated for ADHD at a young age. Did the normal kid stuff. Played sports up until this year. I can always have her tested. She just finished getting tested from school as per her IEP.

Well to be perfectly honest, it sounds like you got one good system there and it seems like you have everything lined up pretty well too. The best I have seen in my life thus far. I don't think you can get any better than what you just described. It seems like you went through all the proper channels and figured everything out very well, probably better than most people. Most likely, your posts here will help others in the future when they happen onto this thread. The only thing to do now is wait. It's the waiting game now. At least, from what I can tell.

 

[Drew64]

It is a pretty good system. Plenty of outpatient help if need it. Wishe we had better psychiatric hospital and better residential places like out west or down south. Mental health has a long way to go in this country.

 

[GuideMe]

It is a pretty good system. Plenty of outpatient help if need it. Wishe we had better psychiatric hospital and better residential places like out west or down south. Mental health has a long way to go in this country.

It would surprise me if there was better than what you described. I'll take your word for it though. Please, please come back and follow up. Me, and I am sure others, would love to know how it went and if it helped your daughter. You could also help others in the future with this type of process when everything is all said and done.

 

[BusynMember]

You live in IL? Just asked because it looked like you meant to type it and my son started out in IL. He was a foster child that we adopted. Because of his special needs, he got Medicaid until he turned 18, but then because he is on the autism spectrum he gets Medicaid now too...covers everything (now we are in Wisconsin). If he needed to live in a group home, that would also be covered, but he lives in an apartment and he pays it with his salary and his Disability. He works part time, five days a week. It's pretty good out here too. Our school district had to pay for him to be transported to another school district because they didn't have the services he needed. We never paid for anything. It's knowing the ropes and who to talk to and who to contact. My son also had an IEP. by the way, we did not find his school to do very good testing. They never nailed him right (shrug). Anyhow, the real issue is that your daughter will be getting help and that's huge.

Here in Wisconsin we have some really good mental health care around Madison and Milwaukee, but we don't live there. Although my son does not need mental health services, I do and I am kind of restricted as to whom I can choose to see. There are some really good places, but there are waiting lists because they have more people wanting services than mental health care professionals.I do see somebody I like, but I wish I had more of a choice.

Good luck. Take advantage of all you can to help your daughter. by the way agree with you that at her age, her reaction to the computer was not normal and does not happen in most homes. I'm glad you are taking care of her

 

[Wiped Out]

I believe that RTCs do take children for many reasons. At one point, after being hospitalized 3 times in 3 months for 3 weeks each time, we had to seriously consider an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for our son. Thankfully, through much trial and error, we found a medication that stopped the violence for our son. However, if the last medication had not worked he would have had to go into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). In my opinion (only an opinion) violence by kiddos is not normal. I agree with MWM that ODD often means there is something else going on. For my son it truly is Bipolar Disorder. I think it is great that it will be covered for you and hope you find a place you are comfortable with choosing.

 

[FlowerGarden]

Drew,
I live in NJ and we had one heck of a time getting our son into residential. We had a case manager, too. He was even mandated by the court into residential and that still took quite awhile for him to be placed. There is a long waiting list. I will PM you with info from our experience with residential.
Flowergarden

 

[Drew64]

Sounds good

 

[Drew64]

Interesting weekend with daughter. Can't quite understand her yet. Yesterday was up,early and on computer talking to friends. I was out most of day. Got home and as unwinding her her start cursing to someone on computer. For some reason it just got me going so I went in her rom and told her to calm it down. She told me a few choice words so I decided to take her access to our wifi network away( she logs into some unprotected network at times anyway). Well that didn't go over well. She broke her stylus to her drawing tablet. Then went to bed. Was up,sitting in living room at 3:30 with her phone. Asked her what was wrong said nothing. Then later in morning she said her life sucks and it's my fault of course and to leave her alone. Made her breakfast which she devoured and tried to talk to her some more. Offered to go see movie, ice skate or go bowling all met with no. Left her alone and in about 15 minutes was talking on line with friends like there is nothing wrong. Now I know when we first saw psychiatrist the first thig he said was she is very depressed. It just seems she is only depressed when parents are around. Although can't get her out of her room or even out of house unless has an appointment. Just confusing about the moods everyday. I can see once in a while. That's what makes it hard to decide on appropriate treatment considering she refuses all treatment and medications. Thinks mom and dad need all the help.

 

[GuideMe]

Part of it has to do with natural teenage hormones. It is not unnatural for a teenager to not want to spend anytime with her parents, and I do me zero amount of time. It's a part of growing up and becoming independent. Couple that in with her online gaming addiction, and it is not good. At this point in time, you and your wife mean nothing to her but not in a bad way. Teenagers are very self centered, which is natural, it's natures way to help them become independent. It's nature. I truly believe that humans becoming adults can happen at any age well before 18 years old or well over 18 year old. It wasn't more than 70 years ago, teenagers were getting married, leaving the nest and starting their own families. In our culture now a days, it's simply impossible to go out on their own, but it does not and will not stop nature from taking it's due course.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I believe you are terribly naive about teenage girls, which a lot of fathers are. However, I do not believe that you are wrong that there is something else indeed wrong with her that definitely does need to be addressed.

 

[GuideMe]

and maybe mom and dad do need help as well. Maybe you can tell her that you admit that this is a family problem and that we all need help and should all go together and get it. Let's fix it.

 

[Drew64]

I grew up with a sister so I know teenage girls. Yes we already told her we all need help and my wife and I have been going. Not every teenage girl hates her parents on a daily basis. I have a good friend who's daughters hang with them a lot for movies and other things. Her behavior is not the norm. I've been around a lot of her high school class mates and most are very mature. My daughter is not mature yet. Normal teens will take care of there hygiene. She's trying to piss moms and dad off and it is working to a point. I hate just seeing a smart kid ruin her life. I don't agree with you that kids can become adults before 18. There brains are still growing and they don't under the consequences for there actions. Now there are some kids who do well at that age and are very mature but that's not the majority. In my opinion and I'm a few yrs older than you

 

[GuideMe]

What do you want me to say? That you're right, that all the other teenagers you know are doing so great and wonderful? All of them except for your daughter? I just wonder how you could possibly know that if you are not living in their homes everyday. But if you want to believe that out of all the teenagers you know, that your daughter is doing the worse, than by all means, believe that, although I don't think that is true. I think you have rose colored glasses on right now.

I don't agree with you that kids can become adults before 18. There brains are still growing and they don't under the consequences for there actions.

You misunderstood me. Of course kids are inexperienced and naive, but their will to be independent, emotionally, mentally, physically of their parents, is so strong and it can be matched by none, which is what you are experiencing right now. You can't beat her will. Drugs, promiscuity, video games, or whatever else, are all false things teens use to subconsciously satisfy their need for what mother nature is telling their bodies to do. Since nature can't take it's course naturally, these other vices become ways for them to have outlets. You can't dismiss mother nature or biological elements here. What I have been and what I am trying to say is, your daughter is growing up dad.

You allowed her to use gaming as a social outlet, now you want to take that away from her. Good luck with that. You see how that's going. Teens will learn consequences from their actions like we all have, like you and I have, like all of mankind had. You need to guide her and still be a parent OF COURSE, but I think you need to adjust your own role because now you are parenting a teenager who is growing up whether you like it or not....and fast. I never said don't help her. I clearly said I think she has other issues going on that she needs help with. I also never said there shouldn't be consequences for her negative actions , for example, hitting her mother. She has no right to hit her own mother. None. and you must do what you can to protect your wife from that and to let your daughter know it's completely wrong to hit her own mother.