One last post and I will leave you alone ;)


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This is terrific!

I like the idea of taking myself out of an angry conversation and remembering that anger at me that I did not cause says more about the other person than me. It's true.

Are you ever afraid your daughter will disappear forever from you? I never was before, but these last four months I have been. Then what? I cant make her nice like she used to be. I can't make her let us see our grandson.

But I have a lot of things to live for and I am a survivor. So I can't give up and wallow in eternal depression even if she disowns me and her wonderful father.

Funny. I dont remember adult children disowning parents when I was a young adult. This is newish and I guess the best we can do is not be dependent on our adult kids or even grandkids for our happiness.

Families are not as close as they used to be. I can not imagine ever speaking to my parents like my daughter talks to me. I respected them too much, even though they were not perfect. I love them even now too much to hurt them. Oh, well, it's different now.
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Active Member
Are you ever afraid your daughter will disappear forever from you? I never was before, but these last four months I have been. Then what?
I don't really think about her disappearing, but it is possible. With her alcoholism and mental health issues, who knows. And of course I would miss her and my granddaughter. But I would be OK because I'm living my life for myself, not for them. I'm extremely close to my granddaughter and I know I would worry about her. But I also believe that I can't control anyone's journey but my own. If that ever happened I would take it on a day by day basis. My daughter disappearing doesn't mean she is gone forever. I don't know how long but I know I can't control her or her decisions. You can't be held hostage by your daughter because she might disappear. You can only live with the situation as it is now.

Right now my relationship with my daughter is pretty good. I know that could change at any minute, but I'm enjoying things as they are now. For me, learning to live in the moment has been very liberating. I strive to be conscious in each moment and enjoy it for what it is. It has made me a more easygoing person. I'm not worried that something bad might happen in the future. I'm just appreciating what is right now. It sounds so easy, but it's very difficult. :givingup:


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For me, learning to live in the moment has been very liberating.
It sounds so easy, but it's very difficult.
No. It does not sound easy, at all

It sounds like the greatest adventure.

I am well aware of how little control we have of external events. And yet I hold onto the illusion of control, which leads me to feel powerless in my life. I locate control out there. As long as I define control as something over which I control zero, I will feel powerless in my own life.

Eliza's way of looking at things is greatly interesting to me, and just in time. I am challenged to locate my life in me.
I would be OK because I'm living my life for myself, not for them.
I can understand this intellectually, but not emotionally. When I think about M leaving, or something happening to J, panic sets in. It is a feeling of such intensity that nothing stands up to it. It just has to melt down, until I have a chance to counter it with other thoughts. But nothing at all counters that feeling when it is strong. Except meditation.
My daughter disappearing doesn't mean she is gone forever.
Busy. Do you see how kind Eliza is to herself? She takes each moment as just that. She does not play it forward. She gives herself the great gift of hope...she owns the her head. Nobody else does. Because really the future only exists in our imagination. Nobody has any guarantee of even five minutes more. I love the courage and the audacity of this. It's like "take back the night."
You can't be held hostage by your daughter because she might disappear. You can only live with the situation as it is now.
Yes. Exactly.

Thank you very much Eliza. Thank you very much Busy. What a great thread!
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Well-Known Member
Eliza, you have spoken to my heart and your words ring true. I am so grateful.

I am in therapy over this and other issues and we are working on mindfulness and living in the moment. It is incredibly hard, but I am able to sometimes stop my fear for Kay and other things if I put on my meditation videos to still my mind or if I call a friend and have fun with her or exercise to the beat of a mantra like "All is well." Or "i i love God " if I quiet my mind to the present, and for me a mantra takes me back to here and now, then I can stop panicking. Sometimes.

I do need to stop Kay from taking over my life. Whatever will be will be. I can enjoy my life without a good relationship with Kay. The truth right now is that Kay is not much fun. I love my grandson but I am not in charge of whether I can see him or not.

Retirement is coming up for us and we have so much we want to do. I hope we can enjoy everything, with or without Kay and grandson.

As my therapist tells me, nobody else can make me happy except me. I am motivated now. To let go and let the universe decide what comes next. And deal with whatever that may be. Thanks!

Tired out

Well-Known Member
Busy-- I wonder what your daughter would say if you asked. "I understand how you feel about the inoculations. How would you feel if your son came down with the sickness? And say he recovered BUT while he was contagious he gave it to an immune compromised child an that child died? My son has cerebral palsy. Pertussis would likely put him in intensive care and probably kill him. Weasels could wipe him out too. I only had one Measles vaccine (it made me extremity sick. I went and was tested and my immunity is high so I don't need a booster BUT I would have had it if it was recommended. Maybe thinking about consequences for another child would wake her up and maybe not. but it can't hurt to try.
Personally I wouldn't want to totally alienate her,after all you want to see your grands. But that's just me. I'm not hardened against heartstrings ...yet.


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We have a very similar discussion at our house periodically.

The majority of the time, we do choice 1....say little. Bite my tongue. This is because our daughter has her mind made up. No input from us no matter how logical or helpful for her will make a bit of difference AND will very likely result in her becoming irrational or angry.

So...just listen. Offer little to nothing.

Very rare exceptions are when she is doing something clearly unsafe or detrimental to those around her. Then we speak up.

Related to this...if she is rude to us, we don’t engage her. We might hang up or tell her to call another time and set boundaries. “Since you were inappropriate, I’m getting off the phone now and don’t call me back until after 5 pm”

In the end, our daughter is of legal age, so life decisions and their repercussions are her burden.

PS I’m unclear why you said this is your last post. Please continue posting as you see fit.
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Well-Known Member
We had a similar conversation and she said that he would get over it. That measles doesnt kill and that once you get it you are innoculated for life. There is no talking logic to brainwashed people.

Oh yeah she added that if her brother took vitamins every day (this is another obsession she has) and ate vine ripened fruits---at least I think she called it vine ripened--then he would have such a naturally strong immune system that he would not get sick. Its not her fault he wont build up his immune system.

This is her goal for her son. To build up his immune system to the point where he would never ever get sick. She really believes this is possible.

A friend of mine had a young granddaughter with cancer. When she died I cried and Kay called me rigjt when I had gotten off the phone hearing the horrible news. The girl was just a baby.

I told Kay and Kay paused, then said "Well, sure, thats very sad, but she vaccinated her child or else probably got a rubella shot when she was pregnant. Thats really sad, but vaccines cause cancer. She took a big risk. Thats why I tell everyone to do the research."

I said I had to go and I was shaking when I thought about her response. How cold, like her mother made her sick because of vaccines.

It is a cult. It is like talking to somebody in The Flat Earth Society. Nomad, you get it. The only difference is that if I dont talk to her about it, she says I am not giving her support and I am not being a caring mother. She gets angrier.

I am glad I wrote this down. It shows me how she has painted me into a corner and how all I can do next time is try active listening. If that also gets her angry I shall go on with my life while she deals with her stuff. I cant help her and she may not talk to me again.

Yes, I will miss my grandson but I have two more who I can see without rules and my husband and I plan to travel a lot soon and visit friends who we havent seen for long times and join ballroom dancing just for fun. I am in a community choir and we are busy. Life goes on.

If I have to live without Kay and my grandson it is not within my control. And not seeing Lee is actually a good thing.

Yes, my heart is shattered, but I gained strength here and will update. This is a smart group of ladies! I dont want to be a chronic pest so I said I wouldnt post again. But I will if something upsets me. Thanks. More feedback welcome.
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New Member
I am going thru my own situation with my 37 yr old who lives at home and does nothing. My wife (not his mother) just left me because of it. What I am advised to do with her is DO NOT- text or call her----give her space to think and learn to realize how much she loves and needs me. Look on any website about "separation" or "wife/husband left and wont talk to me, what do I do." Almost every single one says "do not call/text/show up/send flowers----do nothing. give him or her time/space to realize what he/she can or might lose."

So if she can't talk to and treat you with respect- do not talk to her. Its the hardest thing in the world to (not) do----but the most important.

If would cut off all communication until she plays nice. Let her realize what she potentially has to lose. Right now she knows she can run roughshod over you and "mom will always be there"- she will "give me money or whatever i want"-----so let her realize that maybe she underestimated mom and she needs to be respectful or will lose mom.

Right now its all about her- and she is doing whatever she wants. You need to make this about you- your rules, your dignity and respect. Give me your phone number immediately--you can send me a PM or post it here---that way I can call you and be mean, rude, demanding and disrespectful. You wouldn't tolerate it for a second from me or anyone else- so why would you tolerate it from your own child- who is supposed to love and respect you?
(obviously I don't want your #- I asked for it only to make my point.)

Like I say- its very very hard- but I think you might find some peace and that one thing might be the "agent for change" --
That is my 2 cents---I hope that you find some answers. IF not- I hope you know that there are many here who are supportive and cheering for you. Do not let yourself be abused. It stops today.
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Well-Known Member
Oh yeah she added that if her brother took vitamins every day (this is another obsession she has) and ate vine ripened fruits
My adopted son was born with Hep B. He believes that he can neutralize the virus with high doses of supplements.
I dont want to be a chronic pest so I said I wouldnt post again.
Busy. You have a great deal to contribute here. Why not stay with us?
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I agree with you, me.

Copa, that is so scary. I am sorry. Kay will not takec medicine. She calls it Big Pharma b s. I suppose she wont give it to my grandson either.

But pot cures everything. It enhances your health and keeps you well. She has also taken Kratom.


Well-Known Member
Sorry about your situation. It sounds almost like she has some form of paranoid schizophrenia with the conspiracy theories and being so laser focused on them. It's really unfortunate that it's impacting you and your grandson - and potentially other children. Realistically though there's not much you can do about it, you can only control your response. It might be good to try to keep some kind of line of communication open in case things deteriorate and your grandson needs Child Protective Services to get involved.


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I hope this isn’t your last post, Busy.

This is first and foremost a support group, where we help each other stay strong through the onslaught of our loved ones’ mental illness, addictions, personality disorders, or just plain bad behaviors, and the effect they have on us and our lives.

I hope you stick around.



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Thank you, Done Dad. If my grandson needed to be removed, Lee's family is a lot younger so we think they are a better fit. Aside from handing out money, they are pretty normal. That is why Lee only speaks to them when he wants money. However, my husband and I will always keep the lines of communication open. It is Kay threatening to cut us off. We would never do that.

Apple, thank you. My husband and I are reading these great responses together. If we are welcome to stay, we will.


Well-Known Member
It sounds almost like she has some form of paranoid schizophrenia
While this could be so, it could be something less severe, like a cognitive tendency to hold extreme, rigid and quirky views.

But then, what is a quirky view? We can't really seem to agree. Half of us are pointing at the other half. And that half is pointing back at us.

Unfortunately this seems especially prevalent in our society right now. But I don't think it has to be considered a mental illness.
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Well-Known Member
I don’t think they necessarily have any kind of mental illness, even though they take their beliefs to the extreme.

With the limited info I have about them, I gravitate towards the idea of this belief system (and that is what it is) saving their struggling marriage (as someone earlier posited). It brings them together; us against the world of idiots.

However, I sense a deep ambivalence in your daughter because of her insistence on forcing everyone around her to believe as well.

Tired out

Well-Known Member
I wonder what she would think of the studies done about pot induced paranoia.
My son was really wacky when he was smoking pot. He came up with all kinds of weird ideas. The don't call it wacky tobaccy without reason!

He hasn't smoked in a few months and seems to be "normalizing". He is still a liar but isn't talking like everyone is out to get him.


A real bustard

I would listen politely, take his concerns with due seriousness and stand up for my beliefs when I felt it would do some good. However, I would refuse point-blank to be shouted at. Were one of our boys, or anyone else for that matter, to raise his voice to me and yell, scream, shout, etc., I would put the phone down as as a matter of course, without warning.

Copabanana said:
As Eliza says, (to paraphrase) we can't control what anybody wants to do to us, and in fact does to us. We can only remove ourselves from this. Get out of the way. Don't listen. Not be there.
What Copabanana (and Eliza) said.

I have a hard time taking anti-vaxxers seriously or listening to (what I deem to be) their dangerous nonsense but that's just me.

"Losing" Youngest does weigh on my mind (such as it is) but I will not be bullied or treated uncivilly. If Youngest wants to be treated like an adult, in the real world, he has to act like one and that means a certain minimum of decent behavior.


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Thanks both of you.

Logic doesnt work with the brainwashed.

My daughter never used to be anything but sweet. Its like she joined a cult. She cant be reasoned with and thinks good information like the CDC are lying and corrupt. Only her sources are true.

200, my fear is that if she is mentally ill or Lee really hurts her and then she will have nowhere to go if we cut HER off and I do have a grandson who should not suffer due to HER bad behavior. She has to feel okay calling us. She would not call Lee's family as she doesnt like them and neiither she or Lee give them the time of day unless they want money. Then Lee calls.