Positive thoughts about difficult child

[HereWeGoAgain]

In situations where parents and their property are not safe , the kid should be out of the home and be getting help. Kicking a kid out of the home won't teach him skills he lacks.

These two statements seem almost contradictory. I agree, the "kid" (adult child) should be out of the house getting help. But what if they don't want to get help, or none is available, or both? Do you know the proverb "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink?" And although kicking him out won't teach him the skills he lacks, it may still be necessary.

This whole approach you've been speaking of, finding a looked-up-to mentor to work intensively one on one with a difficult child, getting their needs on the table, teaching them skills, etc. etc. is completely impractical. Where are these paragons to be found? A single difficult child can drive two parents who have devoted their lives to teaching skills and meeting needs right around the bend. You've said it needs to be someone from outside to eliminate the conflict inherit in the relationship to the parent(s) - OK, but what's to prevent difficult child from provoking the same conflict with anyone who tries to tell him anything? difficult children typically think they already know everything and resent anyone who wants to teach them anything, no matter how collaborative the approach.

 

[1905]

Allen, I have personally kicked my difficult child out of the home for violence, stealing and destroying the home. Oh yeah, he also refused to work. Let me tell you something, THAT act alone was the best thing I had ever done for him. Yes for him, he learned the hard way, he now lives on his own, has a good job with benefits, and we all have a great relationship. He learned the hard way, as do most of our kids here. Reasoning?.......please, if that worked I doubt any of would be at this forum. Some kids need to learn the hard way, they have to live with the consequence of bad choices in order to change. Otherwise, in the words of my difficult child, "Why should I?"
I know people who try to reason with, and have quaint discussions with their difficult child. And they have a 30- year- old unemployed difficult child, who lives on their couch and won't work, who also has a bad attitiude.
These are the people who think I'm a bad mom for kicking my poor, dear son out. My son's happy and productive and we get along. These people hate to go home, because thier son is on the couch. Reasoning isn't working for them but they think it is!

 

[Mattsmom277]

I have a ton of thoughts on this thread and different ideas and comments I've read, but I'm so late to reading the thread I don't even know where to jump in here.

I think something that does stand out to me is a desire to say that I truly feel sometimes some people can't see that "one size fits all" does not (and can not) apply to every adult difficult child (or easy child for that matter). Missing from so much of this topic is the individuality of each parents adult children. Different things work for different people.

My Matt? He was on the wrong path and nothing I said or reasoned or dangled was going to move him in a better direction. Nothing a third party could tell him was going to affect change for him. For him, what changed was that even at a young age (11-12), I removed him from our home. My one requirement to come home was to be conducting himself in a manner within our family that did not harm the emotional (or physical) well being of us here in the home. That he must participate as a family member, not a terrorist in our home. Period. Full stop. It killed me to have him saying I was "throwing him to the wolves". And I can say with honesty it took some time for me to look past the harsh judgmental opinions of outsiders. I had to remind myself that outsiders did not know MY son as a human being, a individual with his own motives, dreams, anger, frustrations, skill set (and lack of in many cases). I just kept my mind focused best I could on MY particular child and for us it turned into the best decision ever made. Popularity or disapproval of my "way" aside. It worked for my difficult child. He eventually hated the life he was leading, the loss of the cornerstone of his life (family and the only home he ever knew) became something that for him he wanted back. What must he do to get it back? Be a healthy contributing member of our family. So he came home and proceeded to make choices that helped meet that goal. Eventually he learned that when he struggled with decisions he could come to ask for guidance and would not receive criticism, but he would receive honesty. I stopped at the time I removed him from the home, giving him any unsolicited advice. I did however tell him he can always talk to me if he wants help to make better choices. Left to his own devices, he did exactly that. Now at 18, he has moved clear across the country, a 4 day trip away from "the nest". He is motivated, mature, capable of making healthy choices (or asking for guidance if he is unsure of a situation he finds himself in). He realizes he has a place in a family and society but also that he has a responsability to both family and society. And he learned he doesn't get the benefits of being in the "bosom of the fold" so to speak, when he acts in manners that makes him a undesirable member. He knows he will always be loved, but that nobody is going to jump on board his sinking ship with him if he chooses to put a big whole in the bottom of his boat. He is the captain, he'll only have passengers if he keeps the ship floating. Otherwise we'll lovingly be waiting offshore for the day he fixes his ship. And that he can ask us for advice if he doesn't know how to fix it.

Having said all of that, would this work for others? Perhaps. Depending on their own childs personality. Also depending on the age, situation, etc. I do know this approach, had it waited until now at his age of 18? He would never have responded that way at this age. He would have walked out the door and continued a downhill spiral. I caught him at an age where others sometimes criticized me harshly but at the perfect age/time for HIM. He also had no drug or alcohol addictions, he was able to be AWARE of his harsh impact on others at the time (even though he refused to gain the skill set to change his anger/rage etc). But what if he had addictions at that time? What if he hadn't been aware of his impact on others due to inability to see outside of himself? This approach I used likely would have not worked at all. I can't say what I would have done if he had those addictions or lack of awareness. What I can say is that the approach I went with likely would have not been handled the same way at all.

I do know a common thread all of us parents on this board have, is a desire to see our children grow and mature and thrive, move into adult life with a good skill set, good healthy values, something to motivate them towards a good future etc. As clearly as I know that we all share that common bond, it is equally clear to me that all of our children are so different and therefore our approaches must too be different. There is no magic answer that helps everyone equally. The beauty of this board? If for example some members difficult child appears similar in personality say, to my Matt. Well I can then explain how I handled things and what the outcome was, and why it was right for my Matt. At the same time, I could offer advice similar to my own approach my Matt, but I may be completely wrong in reading posts and that persons child may be nothing like my Matt in personality and motivations etc at all. In which case, my advice might even come across as callous, as if it is ludicrous to suggest giving them the toughest love approach possible when clearly it might make their situation worse instead of better.

I guess I just hope that we can learn one thing on this board above all. That the beauty of this place for us to come discuss our children (minor or adult children), is that with so many differences in situations and personalities of our children, we are bound to learn from each other and better see what choices we might make that would work for our particular children. This board has taught me to dig deep with my difficult child, analyze his person, analyze what works or doesn't but more importantly WHY it works or doesn't work for MY particular child. Cookie cutter pod people our children definitely are not. I have also come to learn a great gift (in my opinion). That when our children grow to adults, we have to learn along with so many other things, when we reach a point that nothing we can do (or not do) is going to "Fix" our childrens problems. I think it is key to know when to stop. When to live and let live.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

I still need to share how a collaborative problem solving discussion would sound like with a drug addict

every relationship or interaction requires people to communicate effectively. Good advice that I received here in the early days - talk to your young kid as if he was your 25 yo neighbour's son.

If we want people to be motivate themselves and change from the inside we can't , and the same goes for a third party tell peole what to do . In the sales game , instead of a high pressurized selling if you get the customer to sell the product to himself , you will have a committed customer. This is called ' selling by attraction' .

so with parenting , using cps , the process is slow , getting the kid to sell himself the idea. it is not about blame , criticism , forcing a kid to do something or even telling them.

It is getting the kid to talk , using dialog questions , sharing his concerns, his unmet needs, and his vision for the future
so this can take a few sessions

Once you have heard the kid without being judgemental , there is a good chance he will be willing to hear your concerns , see your perspective.

We can then help reflect on their goals or problems that are getting in the way and let them brainstorm solutions.

CPS is hard work and messy , kids and us need plenty of experience to get good at problem solving and trust the process

Where should we be holding ? If the kid is out of the home , we have a better chance - in order to get closer , you have to move apart , a often the dynamic is not conducive to collaborating.

Can you have a conversation on general non-emotive stuff ?
Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?
Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

To be intrinsically motivated 3 needs need to be met

people need to feel that they can direct their lives and can act in an autonomous way

people need life skills , competence in certain areas

people need good relationships

Allan

 

[dashcat]

Allan,
I am baffled as to why you are posting in this forum.
1. You do not have a difficult child and are not seeking support
2 You tout "collaborative problem solving", yet you are not LISTENING to the many, many posters on this thread who wearily tell you that such reasoning does not work with mentally ill adult difficult children. All you do is regurgitate your point of view.

While you have every right to your opinion, what you are posting here is not only not helpful, it is actually counter productive. Most of us have been through the wringer fending off well meaning, but clueless, people in real life who tell us that our difficult children need to feel as though they are part of the solution ... they need to be "heard" in a non judgemental way.... this kind of reasoning makes sense on paper. When it does not make sense, however, is in the midst of battle. As warrior parents, we cannot simply sit back in our rocking chairs, fold our hands and listen, in a non-judgemental manner, as our kids jump from one rabbit hole of danger to another.

Why are you here, Allan? What are you hping to accomplish with your posts?

Dash

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Dash,

Well 44 responses to the opening post , over 700 views it seems what I write has got parents thinking a bit. I have been around since 1999 so I have got a good idea of what warrior parents are about. The mantra here is ' take what you like , if it is not your cup of tea, don't read what I write.

Ross Greene says that CPS can help adult kids. I believe that effective communication strategies can go along way in helping people. The art of communication is in the listening , focusing not on behavior but on concerns. It is not easy and I believe very few parents are skilled communicators. When kids are out of the home we have a good opportunity to improve the relationship and communication.

I am glad that what I write at least makes sense on paper, which discounts a lot of the other stuff. The problem is we are trying to parent in the midst of a battle , so we might win battles , but we will lose the war , if we don't win the hearts of our kids or at least they find ' relatedness ' with others.

'As warrior parents, we cannot simply sit back in our rocking chairs, fold our hands and listen, in a non-judgemental manner, as our kids jump from one rabbit hole of danger to another.'

- well there is very little one can do to control difficult children or any other person , so at least when a kid will seek help or advice , they might come to a parent , because there is still a relationship , they can still talk , being non-judgemental , does not mean that we agree , but at least the kid is talking and thinking. When kids think, reflect and talk , this impacts on brain growth , it might not solve the problem , but every step of the way some learning, something positive is taking place.

I asked the following questions - Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotive stuff ?
Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?
Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

When we do this , we are teaching a lot of skills

For sure there can be a lot going around for the kid - depression, impulsiveness , bad company , lack of a supportive relationship , lacking skills etc

If autistic kids are being successfully treated with RDI , similar to CPS , an adult with problems can be helped.

Allan

 

[Nancy]

I still need to share how a collaborative problem solving discussion would sound like with a drug addict

I'm anxiously waiting.

Nancy

 

[Hound dog]

I asked the following questions - Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotive stuff ?
Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?
Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

1. Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotional stuff?

This one I get. As it's what kept me being able to talk to my difficult children at all, especially during their darkest times. If it takes chatting away about trivial things to keep lines of communication open, then great, I'll chat about trivial non-emotional stuff all day long. I'm currently on this level with katie.

2. Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?

This one is not so easy. I see where you're going with this one, I do. But an unstable person's perspectives are skewed and unrealistic. When I'd attempt this with Nichole unstable, what I got in return was a blank stare.....or accused of thinking / feeling things I was not.....and often it drove a wider gap between us. I'm not saying I didn't use it because I did, I just had to be extremely careful as it could just as easily backfire and blow up in my face as help her see her behaviors realistically. I didn't use it often when she was unstable....I had to watch and wait for body language to tell me she "might" be receptive. But I will say that asking for her perspective did give me an eye opening view into her warped and skewed though processes. Once she was more stable and willing to try, I used this often and it did work well. But there has to be cooperation for it to work at all. (and for many adult kids there is no cooperation)

3. Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

Unstable? No. On both sides. Stable, or working the treatment program and trying? Yes. And we still do occasionally.

With katie? Two and three would not be worth my time. I've ventured into number two a couple of times.....I get a blank stare. Katie is in total denial, where she's been for almost 2 decades. Number 3 she takes as an opening to whine my ear off and attempt to drain me dry. I don't do number 3 with her. She has no desire to change. Her perceptions whatever of the world is that she is the innocent "victim" and everyone is out to get her. To give that up, she has to take responsibility for everything that has happened over those years........I seriously doubt that will ever happen. I'm still trying to figure out if the girl has a conscience at all. Heaven above knows her husband doesn't possess one.

I'm trying to be objective with this theory. But I'm having issues. Mostly because I see no way in the world it would work unless the person was stable, or actively working toward stability. In which, half the battle is already been won. Nor do I see it working with any of the fairly serious mental illnesses at all. My mom for example, paranoid schizophrenic.....2 and 3 would not, do not, as I've tried for years, work with her.......goes zip right over her head. Why? Because her perception of reality is not normal, nor will it ever be normal, even with medication. (which she will not take due to her abnormal perception of reality)

Would not, and did not, work with my bff either......her perceptions of reality only involved herself and what others could do for her. She had even learned to Talk the Talk, but only pretended to walk the walk to get medications to go along with street drugs to get the ultimate high she was seeking.

Which is another thing. With all 3 of those a parent opens themselves up to potential manipulation and must still remain wary and watch for red flags.

I can see CPS working in combination with other methods, medication ect with a cooperative person. But without cooperation, a parent is only blowing so much hot air. Which is not so good for the parent as it keeps them emotionally engaged in difficult child drama that they have no control over and can not change.

 

[toughlovin]

Allan I have found this an interesting discussion but I am struck by how it doesn't feel you are totally listening to us or answering our examples. For example like Nancy, I did not get at all how you were using CPS to address issues with a drug addict child. Can you see situations where CPS would NOT work.... maybe it is only in situations where nothing would work but really you seem to have this belief that we can always use CPS to help our children where in fact sometimes nothing helps except detachment, drawing a line in the sand and stepping back and waiting.

For example with a drug addicted child I don't think CPS will work until they are willing to be sober. Fact is when you are addicted to drugs the major problem you have is how to get more drugs. That is your focus. As a parent you cannot support that in any way. So I think doing any of what you say with an actively using substance abusing child is pretty pointless and can just keep you the parent enmeshed in their drama and in enabling them.

I think the same can be said of a child who is actively dealing with a major mental illness without treatment.

The reality is in these two situations the child may not be capable of the conversations or insight needed for CPS. In these situations the best thing a parent can do is detach, step back and be there when the child is ready for some help.

Any time anyone on this list brings up these two situations, which most of us here is dealing with one or both of these, you spout more about CPS without really answering the real question.

To be honest I think I was probably brought up with a pretty collaborative approach... my parents of course had no training in it and neither do I. It worked very well with me and it has worked great with my daughter. I have a great relationship with her and she is 16 and is most definitely a easy child through and through. If she was my only child I could also espouse the methods I use as being the answer for all kids.

Of course she is not my only chlld and I learned early on there is no one method that works with all and some kids are way more difficult than others. I do however believe that at least to some extent I used this approach with my son. However through whatever set of circumstances and issues he got invovled in drugs and things went very south in our relationship. We are now at the point you are talking about with adult children. He is not living here and so I am just trying to build a relationship with him again, being supportive and yet also being careful not to get enmeshed in his drama. I will say he is still at the point where he comes to us with problems at least to some extent. So can we have the kind of conversation you describe, no not really at this point.. He does not share a lot with me but we are slowly hopefully moving towards that I hope.

Howevery he has been in drug treatment and at this point is not using at all or not much anyways. If he continues to do ok then I will continue to be there for him. If he starts using drugs again and I become aware of that then I will in no way enable him...... and that is the only thing I can do. CPS won't help if he is actively using, the only thing that will help is my stepping back and not enabling him. The reason that is the only thing I can do is that for a drug addict, they have to reach bottom and really want help.

As others have said, if an adult kid is not at the point of wanting help there is nothing you can do..... and you keep jumping in with this CPS stuff and I feel like you are totally missing this point.

 

[Nancy]

1. Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotional stuff?

Absolutely. Most of our conversations are non-emo stuff. We talk a lot in this family. We watch the news and read the newspaper. We talk about currenty affairs and local happenings. We talk about their friends and what they are doing and how their day went. We talk about many many things, we are involved parentys. Of course when difficult child is in the active stage of addiction we don't talk about anything because you can't talk to an addict.

2. Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?

Again we do this all the time just in general conversation. Wer give our thoughts and opinions on a great variety of things. Of course they are free to take our perspective and for the most part easy child does, even if she doesn;t agree. difficult child infrequently takes our perspective because being an addict she wants to do what she wants wehen she wants and she knows we don't approve.

3. Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

We also do this all the time. This of course goes back to the emotional stuff category. We talk a great deal about what maeks us happy and sad and frustrated. You don;t go through parent sunday for 8 weeks at rehab and not learn how to tell what's in your gut. But irregardless of that, we are a family that talks about our feelings and shares when we are upset and tries to give each other comfort and understanding.

I think all of this is just natural family behavior and find it hard most functioning families dont; have thse conversations. If they don't it's pretty obvious where the dysfunction comes from in my opinion. So where doers that leave us?

This goes back to my comment about her psychiatrist who on paper was a genious but when he talked to her he tried to convince her she needed a passion, as if that were going to solve all her character flaws and addictions. Yes of course, if a well adjusted person finds a passion in life they are more likely to find happiness and if a non well adjusted person finds a passion they may see the light, but you don't find a passion by someone telling you to do that. We spent thousands of dollars and years giving our difficult child every opportunity available in hopes she would find a passion. I can't even begin to tell you the activities we tried to get her involved in and the people we tried to get her involved with to mentor her. None of that works until that person is mature enough or has hit rock bottom enough to want to listen.

Nancy

 

[exhausted]

I

asked the following questions - Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotive stuff ?
Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ?
Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc

This is not my forum but just had to respond. I have used collaborative problem solving very successfully in my classroom with some kids. It didn't work with all kids in all situations. Sometimes we had to come back and re-problem solve. And with some of these kids-there was no efficacy and yes....they did not have trust for me (or anyone else)- so I speak from experience. To me it is another tool for some kids. It is not everything for everybody. I do agree that sometimes with our older difficult children they need this coming from someone else other than parents The problem is not too many pros or people know about it or have the skills to do it. There is no hope of it happening with an older difficult child who is so mind altered(chemically, or through mental illness) that they can't even be in the moment (one of the first skills needed to problem solve). As for mentors- I love this. Will my child love this??
Now on to my 16 year old daughter: biological, raised in a decent 2 parent household with educated and loving parents....Sexually abused (not by us of course), apparently predispositioned and brain very suseptable to illness, our easy child goes major- major difficult child (drugs,sexual,theft,gang,truency,running away, lack of respect etc...)

Can you have a conversation with the kid on general non-emotive stuff ? Yes as long as it is mostly about her and her interests. typical teen stuff, but deaper with her. Despite trying to problem solve this one (it is a social skill to listen to others and respond to their conversation without it always being about you) She still wants us to center around her conversation. Still needs work-not the most important thing right now as safety is the thing we have to worry about (life threatening behaviors)

Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ? I can see her perspective, I can see her skill deficits, I can empathize. Not in an even minute way can she see from our perspective. No remorse, no" I'm sorry", no" how do you feel about that", no, "Oh, I see how that looks to you"- she can't even predict how we must be feeling as she was out running around with 23 year old gang member engaging in dangerous sex! She is skill deficit here, thus the "PTSD and Border-Line Traits diagnosis and current DBT treatment (most recommended treatment for this disorder, and teaches many of the missing skills, also requires coaching, which is just another word for collaborative problem solving)Still wonder how it all will work if she doesn't choose to use the skills?

Can you talk about what makes you happy, sad , frustrated - can the kid share the same with you ? share concerns, unmet needs etc
Yes, we both can do this (years of cognitive therapy have helped this). She can do this-she has this skill-isn't that great!?

Bottomline for me-every method out there is a tool usuable for some, in some moments. I love the premise of Ross Greens work..I love it. I think it is good stuff when it is good stuff. Most importantly, I think we limit ourselves when we select one idea or philosophy of parenting or managing people. The proof is on this site-many different people with many different styles of parenting and histories, and yet we all have difficult children! And yes, we are powerless to change others, we can only support them.

Here is my positive thinking about my daughter-"I have hope that she will, when ready, make choices that will not put her life in danger" Until she is eighteen, I must do my best to see to that any way possible. After that, I will love her and hope....

 

[DaisyFace]

Can you share perspectives , can your kid take your perspective ? I can see her perspective, I can see her skill deficits, I can empathize. Not in an even minute way can she see from our perspective. No remorse, no" I'm sorry", no" how do you feel about that", no, "Oh, I see how that looks to you"- she can't even predict how we must be feeling.....

She is skill deficit here, thus the "PTSD and Border-Line Traits diagnosis and current DBT treatment (most recommended treatment for this disorder, and teaches many of the missing skills, also requires coaching, which is just another word for collaborative problem solving)Still wonder how it all will work if she doesn't choose to use the skills?

I am not a "Parent Emeritus" either....but I tend to follow along as I read the newest posts as they come in...

And I could write about my daughter much the same as Exhausted has. I empathize...I try to rephrase my daughter's concerns. I express my concerns. My daughter gets angry. At this point, I stop and I say "difficult child, what are you hearing me say? What is it that I am worried about?"

And my daughter will respond with something that is not even CLOSE to what I just said.

It's very frustrating when your child interprets things in a paranoid, "everyone is out to get me" kind of way.

 

[Star*]

I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by " making excuses for the behavior" . - Thanks

 

[Allan-Matlem]

Star - making excuses

I come home , the kitchen is upside down - there are 2 possible scenarios
raising voice and criticizing - the response , calm down what's your problem
making an excuse - I see the kitchen a bit upside , you must have pressurized with your studies
response - an apology and offer to help or clean up now

Kid gone away for the week end , did not phone to wish a good shabbos ( a good shabbat - day of rest )
me - hi , we did not speak on friday , you must have been pretty busy
response - an apology and asking how my shabbat went

When kids screw up and we are empathic , use understatement , it allows the kid to come forward and take responsibility

we hit the ceiling - the focus is now on your loss of control and trying to force the kid so in the kid's eyes you have now become the problem , not what initially set off the interaction.

I am not a big one for consequences but one will have more success with the kid actually internalizing the message if one is empathic - you may not go to a friend but you may play on the computer

Allan

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks Allan.... I like those concrete examples. I will think about that next time my easy child daughter leaves the kitchen a mess. I know that I tend to be less sympathetic about the little things where as on the big issues I think I do pretty well..... but I have some real life examples I would be interested in your response. In these situations I think I actually handled them well but not sure what you are talking about works as well.. So here are some examples.

1. In 5th grade you get called in by the teacher because it was discovered that your son stole another kids lunch box.
2. In 7th grade your kid was kicked out of camp for stealing a large sum of money from another kid.
3. You get a call at 2am from the police because your son was caught driving your car on only his permit (no license). You were sound asleep and last you knew he was home and so had totally taken the car out without your permission or knowledge and was not allowed to legally drive alone.

I of course have many more examples as I am sure others do here.... but would you still use the excuses like you mentioned above or is it now time for a different approach.

Believe me we tried in all these situations to try to get at what he was thinking and feeling and what was the behavior really about, including therapists etc.

And Mrsammler.... I have also wondered if my son is a budding sociopath but as his mother I remember the little boy who had loads of empathy for the downtrodden and animals. For some reason he has learned to hide the softer side of himself.

 

[Allan-Matlem]

I lost my response . The idea is to wear the lenses of lacking skills so the kid focuses on the problem , coming up with a better plan and engages on his own in the moral act of restitution . The kid has to come out of the process with a vision for the future and self esteem intact and a commitment to values.Solutions need to take into account the kids concerns

allan

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

There's no way my difficult child, even today, would apologise and toe the line, not about leaving the kitchen in a mess, and not about wishing me a good Shabbos. It wouldn't make any difference what I say or how I say it. He would just stare at me as if I were crazy. He's not an extreme difficult child, but he is a difficult child. I thank my lucky stars that he isn't on drugs and isn't an alcoholic, but his way of looking at the world is not what I would call "normal." He truly only sees things from his own perspective. That doesn't mean that sometimes, when HE decides to (and it is very very rare but it can happen), he won't go into the kitchen and clear it up. But that's only if I am ill, or so snowed under with work that I am hysterical.

I have done everything in my power to keep our relationship with our difficult child as steady as possible. That means keeping my mouth shut almost always. I don't spoil him (anyway, he is in Australia now, but that's another story and he'll probably be coming back soon because he just isn't managing to make a go of it), but I do try to make life comfortable for him with us, mainly for selfish reasons -- that way I have more peace of mind. That doesn't mean we don't have limits, we do, and he more or less respects that because I have made sure that he knows that I love him and that he can always be here (if he toes the line).

I'm not sure if what I have been doing is the correct way. There is always more than one way of dealing with a situation, so one will never know if it would have been better if we had done something else, because you can only choose to do one thing at a time. My husband is more stern and is more of a disciplinarian, so we more or less share a carrot and stick approach, although we do try to stay more or less on the same page.

I think the whole point of this forum is to bring up concrete problems as they happen, and then we bring up our own personal experiences and share them, or concrete suggestions.

I've only just now read this thread for the first time.

Love, Esther