So confused

[Nancy]

What happened to you last night has happened so many times to us. We told difficult child if she wasn't home by a certain time to not bother coming home. The problem with that is at some point she didn't and then we didn't know what our next step was. And we also drive to friends houses or apartments looking for her.

I don't know what the best thing to do is and sometimes we have to just follow our gut at the time. I would have picked him up for school since he did ask and you want him to go to school.

You're doing a good job. Hopefully he,will keep it together so he can go on his trip to Israel. I have a good friend who told me they send their troubled kids to Greece to visit the relatives and get straightened out.

Nancy

 

[toughlovin]

Sharon I think you are doing great. I really believe developing tough love is a process... one tough step at a time. I know there are many ways in which way we were probably not tough on our son early enough.... but it was also important to me that he know he is loved, that we not feel like we are abandoning him and that we give him chances to do the right thing and so every thing we did was with the hope and aim of enabling the good behaviors. Of course he took great advantage of us and each time we got a little tougher... until we got to the point where we let him be completely homeless and hungry until he went into rehab. I could see at some point we may even refuse to help him with rehab... but we are not at that point yet.

So now you are at the good point of being clear about when he needs to be home if he wants to stay at home that night.... and he will follow it or not. The thing is you will have to find a way to follow through and still get some sleep!!! That can be a hard thing and that is the part that makes tough love so tough.

I remind myself that our kids are still young... many people go much much longer than me before finally getting tough and not enabling at all. And some get it and do it much sooner than I did. The process is different for everyone I think. I think the important thing is to listen to your gut and what feels right to you at the moment.

I know for me at different points if I had been tough and cut off all support I would not have felt ok about it, would not have felt peace about it. I am now at a place where i still worry (probably always will) but if we have to cut off support again I at least do not feel conflicted about it. This last time I felt clear and that clarity helped me through it.

TL

 

[AmericanGirl]

This discussion reminds me of something I saw on Pinterest recently. See link below.

http://www.damnlol.com/you-missed-your-curfew-11422.html

Not saying it is appropriate for this situation (or for anyone else) but I wish I had tightened up sooner. True I didn't know what he was doing but still I wish....

 

[Calamity Jane]

Sometimes I read some of the posts on the SA Forum out loud to my husband. We're always trying to learn something about how we should approach our situation. When we read these posts sometimes, particularly about difficult child behavior, which we're personally experiencing in our own home, we occasionally just crack up. It's sad, but also sometimes weirdly funny. husband and I have known each other and each other's parents since we were kids ourselves, and both our sets of parents were old school strict, but oddly hands-off if you know what I mean. They never said much; didn't have to. Our parents would have been dipped in s**t before they'd take the kind of abuse we get from our difficult children. The nuns in our school would have whooped our butts if we acted out in school. No arguments, no pleading, no IEPs, no losing sleep on their part. I mentioned this to our son's psychiatrist once, because I just couldn't fathom our "working through" the level of emotional blackmail we had to deal with, and he just laughed and said it's a different world these days. Sure is. That's my .02!

 

[vligrl]

What do you all recommend in the way of home drug testing? I had a small paper testing kit for about 10 different drugs that you dip in urine. Had one for just pot but soon found that any type of regular drug use takes about a month to get out of the system. Not sure if I should do testing at home and fight with him about leaving the door open so he doesn't water anything down or take him to his doctors lab and let them do it? What should I do? My son said test him in two weeks. Not sure why? Pot will probably still be in his system. I know acid and X are the hardest to test for after many hours have passed as they have a very short shelf life. He spent the night at a friends last night. Can't tell me he will avoid getting high.

 

[vligrl]

This discussion reminds me of something I saw on Pinterest recently. See link below.

http://www.damnlol.com/you-missed-your-curfew-11422.html

Not saying it is appropriate for this situation (or for anyone else) but I wish I had tightened up sooner. True I didn't know what he was doing but still I wish....

After high school I was pretty bad about keeping curfew. I wasn't a druggie nor did I drink but loved to go out dancing in Hollywood. I didn't get in trouble if I called my Dad to tell him I would be late as I was at a famous movie star's house or with a rock group, but one time I did not call and it was four am. My Dad had bolted the front door and when I rang the bell, he opened the door and took away my car keys and locked the door again. Here I was at 4am now without the use of my car (no cell phones then) I went to a nearby phone booth, booked a cab and spent the night at my gfs. Next morning my Mom came by with my uniform for beauty school and took me to school at 8am. I was about 19. I then learned about climbing in and out of my bedroom window. Parent's were so lucky that I wasn't on drug or drunk but I remember them waiting up.....

 

[Nancy]

I never used home drug tests. I took her to a lab and had her sign a release so they gave me the results when I called. She was smoking pot a lot but it was always out if her system in 14 days. I asked for the 9 panel so it would detect most all drugs. But with spice now I don't know. I know they can now test for it but I'm sure it's a separate test and I think it does stay in system longer.

Her agreeing to go for drug testing every month as a condition for her living at home. Of course at some point she didn't care about that and just refused to go. That was near the end when we kicked her out.

Nancy

 

[toughlovin]

Well we ordered some pretty good tests similar to what you describe on line. I have mixed feelings about home drug testing at this point. We did it for quite a while and it gave us i think a false sense of reassurance. We found out later that he had been getting around the drug tests for a while in various ways... including peeing in a bottle when he was clean and saving it.... ICKY...There are also things you can take that you can get online that can help you beat them... and there are plenty of things that dont stay in your system long. And things the drug tests don't even test for such as LSD. I think one reason my son got into spice is that at the time it didnt show up on the drug tests and pot did.... and yet spice is more dangerous than pot. Same with robitussen.

There is a home kit to test for spice now but I do think it is a separate test and may be pretty expensive.

My suggestion is really to look at his behavior, motivation and those other issues. You will drive yourself crazy with trying to drug test him, or determine if he is using or not... and he will get smarter and smarter in finding ways to convince you that he is not.

Hugs.... I have been there and done that and maybe this is one more step in your process.... but from my experience home drug testing turned out not to be very useful..... now the drug testing in other venues makes some sense.

TL

 

[vligrl]

Just found out that there are saliva tests! No cheating there and they have to do it right in front of you. Of course it has to be random. You can't just announce, "hey, when you get home after partying, we're going to drug test you",lol! I know what you mean though about it driving you crazy. I have had a twelve panel test sitting in my drawer for about six months now. I did the THC test, but he refused to leave the bathroom door open so I just stopped. Now that he has been told no drugs, period or out, I have to start again.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I remember my son used to taunt us to "go ahead and test" him, because he could smoke something called Salvia, which is undectectable. He was so gleeful in his maliciousness, when I think back. We did test him a couple of times, however, and husband would wake him up, follow him to the bathroom and remain in there while he gave a sample. He was infuriated, but humiliation would not be an issue in jail, would it? However, we stopped testing him after speaking with his shrink about it. The dr. said not to bother, we know he's using, so what good does it do? It's just a power struggle. They all know how to get around it, but in the end, they're mostly hurting themselves and not getting over on anyone. That's when we shut down the internet, because they stay on all night researching these useless victories with each other.

 

[vligrl]

I just wanted to say I'm sorry for those of you that had a rough weekend. Wish virtual hugs could be felt. This was a pretty good weekend for us, thank god. My son came home by his curfew, was polite, let me give him a haircut (his idea..I'm a hairdresser) and actually sat with me in my bedroom last night while I watched the Academy Awards. He texted and during commercials, shared a new rapper he discovered (yuck). Still not using the car, still not giving him a penny when he asks.
I wish you all well and to have peaceful days.

 

[AmericanGirl]

A friend about five years ago was really involved with a university sports team. He was in the medical profession. When the players would get caught doing drugs, they had to go to his office. He would talk to them and then to the coaches. A decision would be made as to which of the local labs the player would go to take a drug test. One was highly reliable and they knew the player would test positive. The others...less so...probably a negative. If they thought the player 'got it', he would go get the weaker test and not be benched as a result. If the player lied, etc. then off to the first lab with consequences.

I witnessed this personally several times. It bothered me on a deep level. But I learned that drug tests can be highly subjective. Before i took difficult child to a lab, I would personally go there and ask about their protocals....door opened when giving sample, blue water in toilet, water off in bathroom, reliability, etc. just my two cents...

 

[vligrl]

A friend about five years ago was really involved with a university sports team. He was in the medical profession. When the players would get caught doing drugs, they had to go to his office. He would talk to them and then to the coaches. A decision would be made as to which of the local labs the player would go to take a drug test. One was highly reliable and they knew the player would test positive. The others...less so...probably a negative. If they thought the player 'got it', he would go get the weaker test and not be benched as a result. If the player lied, etc. then off to the first lab with consequences.

I witnessed this personally several times. It bothered me on a deep level. But I learned that drug tests can be highly subjective. Before i took difficult child to a lab, I would personally go there and ask about their protocals....door opened when giving sample, blue water in toilet, water off in bathroom, reliability, etc. just my two cents...

would just do a drug test at home. know about the blue water, etc. if he won't do one, i'll take him to the emergency....

 

[vligrl]

Feel like I am going around in circles. Do I test my son for drugs just because or do I wait for abnormal behavior? I told him almost three weeks ago that I would test him but if he has been smoking pot a few times a week I think it will be in his system for about a month? Is this true? If I test him and he tests positive now for pot, then what? How do I know if it is a problem or not? Hard to tell the difference as he is naturally lazy and unmotivated unless it has to do with something fun. He is out of school this week as are some of his other friends. I can't believe I don't know what to do! He is either really good at hiding when he is high or he isn't getting high? What he doesn't do: steal, break things, violence, act weird or smell of pot. What he does do: Comes home on time, has been going to his classes and catching up on some work, doesn't drive a car and has no problem getting rides from anyone. Help! Test, not test...wait till he acts out? Big changes in behavior? What??????

 

[Calamity Jane]

Hi Vligrl,

For what it's worth, my son never smelled of pot, came home on time, and told us he was doing his schoolwork. Once we caught paraphernalia in the car, he never drove our car again, and he also had no problems getting rides. He was always adamant about "his rights" and "his freedom," and was very vocal about how pot should be legalized (wonder why?!). The main problem we saw was extremely poor grades, lack of motivation, and the fact that he was almost never home after school or for dinner, he quit his long-time part-time job, he was no longer interested in family activities, seeing relatives, etc. He was always skulking around with his friends because they weren't allowed in our house after we caught them in our basement smoking pot. His room was a pigsty and he always had an excuse. We didn't give him money, but he was always able to find some fool to smoke with so he thought he was really "sticking it to us." He mistook our patience and mercy for stupidity. From what our therapist told us 2 yrs. ago, 100-150ng/ml indicates moderate use, and 500-700+ indicates heavy use (problem. smoking more than once/day). Our son came in around the 150 range whenever we tested him. If you do test, do it first thing in the AM, before he has a chance to eat or drink, and he must do it in front of your husband, so there's no way he'll dilute it or add soap to it to ruin the test and have you waste your money. If you're not comfortable with that, take him to the dr.'s office. If you've already found paraphernalia, you can be somewhat sure he's smoking. So what you need to ask yourself is, if he does turn up positive, what are you and husband going to do? Your son doesn't drive, he doesn't get money I assume, so other than "just knowing" what do you gain? What consequence can he receive? on the other hand, if he's lazy and unmotivated, it could be related to that, and I'd want to know exactly what's going on, just for my own satisfaction. Just decide what the consequence will be beforehand, and stick to it. This might be a good week if everyone's home from school.

 

[Zardo]

I hear your confusion - his behavior right now sounds OK....in your first post, it sounded like it was not. If his behavior is OK; ie, going to school and getting acceptabel grades, participating in family life to some degree, working a job and providing his own spending money, no drugs, etc showing up in your home, I hate to say it but if he is using pot on an infrequent basis as many other kids his age, I am not sure it is a crisis. There are tests out there that can tell you the level of his use. My H had always said, I could understand if our son smoked a little pot while he is in high school, my H did too. For our son, it was the anger and lack of respect for anything or anyone, refusal of any school work, chores or any other responsilbity, trouble with the law, etc. that put his life in crisis. My son is much better and clean these days. If you ask him he would say that it was not the pot but rather a deep depression that caused the chaos - I hesitate to believe his theory, but only time will tell. So - if I were you and I saw my son functioning on such a normal level, I don't think I would test. If his behavior changes and you suspect use, that's when you would test because when social use progresses to abuse or dependance, you would CLEARLY see the signs. I think that's what we would do - others may feel differently.