So, how do you know if you're dealing with a sociopath?

[welcometowitsend]

I have to say that I'm in a lot of confusion right now with difficult child. I'm sure my posts reflect that - I go back and forth, thinking, trying to come up with answers.

I initally suspected drug use and did have him tested at the doctors. We can't buy drug tests yet. Anyway, he agreed to get tested and he came back clean. The only thing that concerns me with that is huffing - because I understand that the chemicals leave the body very quickly and therefore you can't test for it. But I have never smelled anything on him that would indicate he's been huffing so I am assuming he's clean at this point.

I should clarify that he was diagnosed with Tourette's and ADHD at the age of 9. Tourette's does sometimes have overlapping symptoms with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). He used to have problems transitioning when he was little and would throw incredible tantrums when it was time to leave a friend's house - but I learned to give him 30, 20, 10 minute warnings before we left and that solved the problem quickly. He never had a problem with routines or lack of them. He did have a problem with a lot of background noise or busyness when he was very young - say under 4 years of age. He would get agitated. He had several imaginary friends as a child (Sink from Blues Clues, R2D2 and someone he called Uncle Billy - that was kinda weird because Uncle Billy was 25 and had red hair - not like anyone we knew or had been in contact with). He did have problems socially sometimes (ie. some kids he couldn't get along with and sometimes he would act inappropriately - like he spit in his friends face once for no reason) and he definitely beats to his own drum but I never thought he fully met the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) criteria. Hence the 'overlapping' symptoms but no official diagnosis. I never pursued a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) because I didn't think it fit. I would say the closest thing he did that was Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) was he had a habit (at about age 9) of pretending to hit/lightly hit people. He wasn't doing it to be mean it was more of a playful thing that was totally inappropriate. Like a dog that wants to play and doesn't know what to do with itself so it nips you. That lasted a couple of months and I finally got him to understand how annoying it was and he stopped immediately and never did it again.

He has always gotten along well with children of all ages and adults as well and has always had many friends. Everyone seems to like him and he is a great leader and team worker as well. Always has been. And he still has lots of friends - if you go on his FB - lots of people list him as one of their top 5 guy friends.

The never happy/never satisfied thing is sort of underlying. I always chalked it up to a person who was more reserved about their emotions and not outwardly expressive. I knew he was happy, he'd say he was happy but you didn't necessarily feel strong happiness or strong excitement from him. But I'm kind of like that so I didn't think anything of it. The flat/phased out expression is there a lot but I always thought it was a nobody's home - lost in space, ADHD thing. I just don't know about that anymore. Not to say that he never smiled, he did, and laughed, and cried and had all the emotions. Now it seems that when he is with our family he is either angry or there is no emotion - he has the flat, nobody's home look - totally disengaged like he just doesn't care.

The behaviour that is recent is the aggressiveness, the bullying of me, the blatant disrespect, name calling, disobedience and refusal to accept consequences - he just downright refuses to accept any consequences for anything and will blame anyone and anything else for his problems and actions. He used to really value our family and our beliefs. This is a boy who a year ago wanted to become a deacon in the church and now he is ok with abortion if his girlfriend gets pregnant. I used to be able to talk to him about things - anything, big or small. Now I can't talk to him about anything without him turning it into a fight. He used to feel like school was important and now his grades are slipping, he is skipping class a lot, etc.. And yes, there is a change in friends coinciding with this.

The other thing that concerns me is that he recently introduced himself to anonymous sex websites. He signs on and pretends to be someone else and has anonymous internet sex with people. That and the sex with his girlfriend, and he has other girls that he is flirting with on the side as well. Kids with Tourette's and ADHD have a tendency to develop obsessions as well and this is not something I want him to become obsessed with. But I fear that he is headed in that direction. Now, I know he is a 16 year old boy and it's on their minds a lot but I just don't think it is normal behaviour to sign on to a website as a bisexual teenage GIRL and have sex with another gay/bi girl. At least not from a kid that was raised the way difficult child was.

My sister also brought up the possibility of depression. She also, like you, said that in young males it can show up as aggressive behaviour. There is a lot of undiagnosed stuff on my mom's side of the family and my sister suffers from depression and anxiety.

I'd really like to get him evaluated but I can't force him. Where we live he has to give consent unless I can prove he is an immediate threat to himself or others. I just wouldn't know how to approach him with this at this point. It may be better to have the counsellor approach him than me because he will think my motive is to blame him and not accept the blame myself for causing all his problems.

I want to thank you all so much for your patience with my as I process all my thoughts and for your information and advice! It's so good to have somewhere to go to work through this.

 

[buddy]

So complex isn't it? Even if you know there are some pre-existing issues, that just makes things harder in many ways. I think they are more vulnerable to typical things becoming extreme (does that make sense?). What you said about depression really hit me. I have thought that of all the mental health possibilities that I would think are in addition to Q's developmental issues....the panic stuff and depression have seemed possibilities. I never thought about if that is making the aggression worse. I guess that even though he learned how to say "suicide" from a depressed girl, at times when he says he wants to go kill himself he really is feeling badly. What to do about taht since antidepressants have seemed to make his anxiety and aggression worse. I hate the thought of trying something and risking a huge medication reaction again. I just hate this for him.

I hope you can sort through it and figure some of it out. I think the constant fights, aggression is sometimes just so wearing I wish I could disappear. I am usually up for the challenge but there are days when I am just plain worn out.

 

[Giulia]

Ok, W, as a difficult child, my two cents about evaluation.
It is right you cannot force him to get an evaluation unless he is an immediate threat.
But there are ways to do to convince him and ways to fail.

The most important, and if you had to retain only one thing, it is this one.
He does it not for you, not for his dad, not for anyone else, he does it for himself.
Never ever bring the request like it is for you. It will not work at all, it indeed will be the best best way to make him refuse and he won't change his mind.
Assure him that the evaluation won't change that you love him as his mom, and whatever the outcome, he is still your son you love unconditionnally. For you, it is obvious you love him whatever the result of this evaluation, but it may not be as obvious for him.

He will probably bring the concern of his friends. You can tel him that he has no obligation to tell his friends, but if his friends are really his friends, they will accept it like he accepts his blue/green/hazel eyes.
That he is not alone to have such issues.

Don't threaten, don't drag him.
Tell him how much you are concerned because you really love him.

Reassure him that he can tell if/when he does not feel at ease with someone, even if they are doctors/psychologists....

It may take some time, but it will bring the best results.
You don't attract flies with vinegar, you attract them with honey.
Assure him that whatever his issue, he is still a person who deserves help and happiness. And that he needs help to be happy, like some persons need help because they don't know how to cook/paint...

 

[keista]

Unfortunately there's more than huffing that doesn't show up in the drug tests - robotripping (massive doses of cough syrup), spice or bath salts (also known as synthetic marijuana and sold legally in convenience stores - may be different in Canada, but they always find a way) and alcohol. I'm sure there are others I don't know about.

The sex is concerning. Sex can become just as much of an addiction as drugs and gambling. If he views you as a wall between him and sex, that would definitely explain the lashing out. Do you know if he has other personas besides a bisexual girl? If not there meay be some transgender issues going on. And if he's internally conflicted about them he most definitely could/would express those emotions as aggression.

 

[Liahona]

Wow, it sounds like he went from having a few manageable problems to being out of control. There could be lots of things contributing, but you are right he has to want to get the help/evaluations.

What do his former and new friends or their parents say?

 

[welcometowitsend]

Buddy - I know what you mean about medications for depression, especially when there are other concerns going on. I did some reading on it and they can definitely make the aggression worse instead of better. I am going to discuss this with the therapist and get her take on things after her session with him this week. I hope he shows up for it. I am seeing her earlier that afternoon because I want to talk to her about that possibility as well as ask her how to handle things better when his girlfriend gets tired of him and kicks him out again. I don't think that husband and I handled things badly because we wanted to be clear from the get-go that we weren't going to tolerate that kind of behaviour, language or disrespect..... but if he is suffering mentally then maybe we need to approach things differently.

Giulia - I totally agree with you that I/we need to be very careful on how we approach him about depression. I tried to approach him on it once before in a very loving way - without any judgement and he was receptive to it but assured me that he didn't think he was depressed at all. He has gotten much worse since then so maybe if we can try again he might see it. I'm nervous about approaching him myself with this because he is so angry with me I don't know if it will matter how I bring it up. He is likely to see it as me looking for a way to blame the problems we are having on him and/or a condition I think he has instead of taking the blame on myself. I am at fault because I won't let him do whatever he wants.

Keista - to my knowledge he has done the bisexual girl thing and straight male. I did approach him at one time - when things were going ok and asked him about his sexuality and let him know that his dad and I loved him and we'd be ok with him whatever his path was. That said, I think he could realistically could feel like he should have definite concerns about that because of our religion and traditional lifestyle. Also, his father was kind of homophobic as many men are. He has mellowed a lot in that regard over the years but if difficult child were exploring his sexuality it might make him nervous. That said, my guess would be that he is straight. He said to me one time that he was straight but he felt boring amongst his friends because some of them are bisexual and some are gay. I thought it was an odd statement but I took it at face value - that he felt boring in a world of friends that all seem to have some kind of difficulty or something that made them 'different'. He comes from a traditional, 2-parent home, with a stay-at-home mom, has never wanted for anything, has had nice family vacations, camping, bike rides with the family, catch in the backyard, that kind of thing, has 2 sets of grandparents close by that are active in his life, no big crisis or anything like that in his life - pretty 'Leave it to Beaver' with some yelling on occasion and the odd spanking thrown in when he was little.

I do think he feels like his dad and I are coming between him and sex - especially because for a time we took his cell phone away and now we are not allowing him to sleep over at girlfriend's house. He does have his cell phone back and I'm monitoring his usage online so if the data gets out of control I will cut the cell phone off again and get him one that he can just use to text me with. According to girlfriend's dad she badgers him about everything from chores, to getting up to homework (he's not very motivated) so I see no reason for him to not be at home except for the sex.

And yes, the possibilities of drugs/alcohol that are not detected scare me. There is so much out there now that it is hard to keep up.

Liahona - I have talked one of his former friends parents and they haven't said much - just that they never see him anymore and they don't hang out with each other. I think I will call another friends mom tonight and see what she has to say about this. Thank you for that idea.

I ran into one of his current friends in the video store (he recognized the last name on my membership card) and he said he was very sorry for everything difficult child was putting us through and that he hoped difficult child would see the light and come home soon. He very obviously felt bad for me and what difficult child is putting us through. So, in one way his friends could be an influence and in another way it doesn't seem so. Given what his friend said in the video store and the amount of nagging he seems to be getting from his girlfriend it seems like they have some priorities, at least.

Sigh. I feel as lost in this as he is. And the therapy sometimes feels like it is going to take forever to get anywhere. I know that time will pass with or without therapy and we are definitely better off with it so I'm trying to be patient with the process.

 

[Giulia]

W, well, if he reacted well at your non judgmental approach, I have hope.
Think also that it often needs to be approached more than once to get a result. Always love and non judgmental, but once may not be enough. You may need a few more times to make him accept. Take the time you need (unless a danger for himself or others), the key point is making him accept.
A person will better accept a repeated idea with love and non judgment, but the first time may be a first contact. It may not be enough to everyone to get the help.

If he wants to blame you, don't take it personally. Easier said than done, I know.
Ignore his blame, make like if he didn't say anything.
In this case about the evaluation, keep a broken record mode. Always love and non judgment, but still broken record mode.

 

[TerryJ2]

I found this online. Thought you might be interested. I'll post it on the news forum, too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...year-old-a-psychopath.html?src=me&ref=general

 

[KMBernier]

I've been looking everywhere on the internet for some way to describe my difficult child and I finally found, if not an answer, at least comfort in the fact I'm 1) Not just a crazy, horrible parent who thinks awful things about my own child, there really is something not right and 2) I'm not the only one. You could have been describing my 21 y/o child down to every last detail. The behavior was always directed to immediate family, so nobody else sees the side we see and it discredits everything.

• Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder
  
• Disregard for right and wrong - right now he doesn't seem to care - if it feels good or keeps girlfriend happy then it's right.
  
• Persistent lying or deceit - If his mouth is moving then he is lying - he even has girls he is flirting with on the side that girlfriend doesn't know about - and he is supposedly in love with her.
  
• Using charm or wit to manipulate others - he can be very charming, funny and is smart and super polite. His teachers for the most part love him as do his friends. Although he is polite beyond normal and it puts some people off (like girlfriend's father - he commented on it the other day).
  
• Recurring difficulties with the law - This one does not apply - hope it never does. Except for that one incident when we called the police on him he hasn't had any problems.
  
• Repeatedly violating the rights of others - I think the only rights he violates are those of his family members. He is very careful to respect his friends - and he has lots of friends.
  
• Child abuse or neglect - nope
  
• Intimidation of others - only immediate family
  
• Aggressive or violent behaviour - only immediate family
  
• Lack of remorse about harming others - he has zero remorse for anything he has done to his family - not sure about other people.
  
• Impulsive behaviour - yes - he is self indulgent and lacks self control to regulate himself and have balance in his life.
  
• Agitation - Yes
  
• Poor or abusive relationships - only in the last 6 months with husband and I.
  
• Irresponsible work behaviour - Isn't really interested in getting a job right now but takes zero responsibility for chores or help around our house or girlfriend's when he is living there.

 

[recoveringenabler]

KMBernier, you've responded to an old thread. If you would like support, you may want to start your own thread in Parent Emeritus since your child is over 18. There are many here who can relate to your story.