Son 32 Still lives with parents

[Andy4382]

I learned here, in this group, after reading everything I could, therapy, etc. That we get confused between help and enabling.

Help is assisting someone to move forward in their life. Like working and being independent, acting like and taking responsibility like an adult should.

Enabling is anything we do that keeps our Difficult Child drinking and drugging, money, a place to stay, etc. Etc.

I am sorry I confused you. My Difficult Child is alive. I quit enabling two years ago when I faced the fact that after thousands upon thousands of dollars of my retirement only kept her gambling, and drinking. Every penny went to her alcoholism. I set firm boundaries with the guidance here. This group offers so much more than what a book and therapist can do. We learn to let go of unwarranted guilt, there is no what if story we haven't all been through, but I sure realize, it's necessary to call each other out when we start down that path.

My 41 y.o. Difficult Child is pregnant for the first time. She stopped her adderall and xanax and alcohol. This baby is giving her a will to live I did not think she had. Unfortunately the living circumstances are not good. The baby daddy doesnt work either and when she found out she was pregnant, she moved back in with him and his parents. I had my second normal conversation in the last 4 years. I wasnt able to talk on the phone. It was a boundary I had to set for myself. The texts were brutal, but ny sticking to my guns, I found trust. I let go and let God. I dont know what is in His plan, but I trust Him to know. I am so grateful I havent spent the last year (when I found this group), in the dark abyss of things that did not come to be.

As for all those people wanting to help, been there too. In my case, I found all they wanted to do was tell me what I needed to do. Had I followed their advice, rather than the facts I know about addiction and enabling, my daughter would not be where she is today. Its it the best situation, no, but she is the one who is responsible and I pray she continues to make good choices, because that's the only control I have, letting go, getting put of her way as she finds her sea legs.

"Keep your eyes wide open in the darkest of times. Only then you can rely on shooting stars."

Lincoln Hall

Yes I was confused, it was like you talking in the past. How ever there is a chance now she will become a great mom and She has a roof over her head. I'm at the point where I have gave it to God. My son has been here 2 weeks now. We have had words a few times about telling lies. I just cant tell if he is telling the truth. I cant even tell if he is on drugs most of the time. Since he was 18 he has lived with us off and on 12-13 years. So for 30 years he has been under our roof. How do I explain that to even myself. I sometimes fell I have let him down by not teaching him to survive on his on. But he has always said he doesn't want to live alone. He never seems to be able to keep a job. Always some excuse. I do construction work (carpenter) and he has left me in a bind serval times. I would take jobs just so he can make money and he miss a day or get mad just some kind of excuse. I'm Praying for his recovery and your daughters. So thanks for your reply and knowledge.

 

[Copabanana]

Our biggest fear is death. If we could only know that was not a option, putting him out is fine.

Dear Andy: There are so many of us who have been in this place, myself included. My son has a potentially fatal chronic disease for which he requires medication. I put him out. He has been homeless off and on many years. He stabilized on medication the last time he was with me, but I could not keep on the way I was. Because he used my support as a haven to continue his addiction. I stopped buying him food, and he went to a Sober Living Home. For 3 months, he was stable continuing on his medication. This week he left there. Now I am in the same old place. Terrified that he is unstable again and he will discontinue his medication.

The thing all of us have to face is that they have to choose to live. And with G-d's help, they have to choose how to live. I came to the belief that any illusion of control I had, any sense that I could protect and guide my son was a fantasy.

 

[Copabanana]

I sometimes fell I have let him down by not teaching him to survive on his on.

I felt this way too, that it was my responsibility to see that my son learned how to live well, that he got the skills to build a decent life. No. It was not my responsibility. It's his. If he chose to not go to college or to vocational rehabilitation that was a choice. Instead, I pushed and pushed and pushed the stone up the hill, and it rolled back down. My learning was to focus upon myself and my own life. Yes. It hurts. Yes. I'm scared. What's changed is that's the background, not the main event.

 

[Andy4382]

Andy,

My heart goes out to you and your wife. We suffer so much at the hands of our adult children and their addictions and poor choices. But what we learn here is that we also have choices. A choice to expose the problem. That's a tough one. For myself, both of my sons have dealt with addictions and currently the older 31 yr. old is making "some" progress but time will tell if he remains consistent in this progress. The younger is almost 27 next month and lives in his car, has been homeless off and on for 3 yrs. Doesn't bath. His vehicle is piled high inside with garbage, blankets etc. He is still "stuck" in his emotional and psychological issues.

I have come to realize (most days, unless I slip back into stinking thinking") that this may take a very long time for him to find recovery and it also may never happen. He almost seems to have found his "normal" in this way of living.

What I really was trying to get to before I diverted is that for many years when the whole family was together both of my sons really did nothing to better their situations and my husband and I at the time "hid" their problems. We cleaned up their messes, bailed them out and put a band-aid on everything. We had all records annulled to wipe the slate clean. We felt we were helping them so that there would be no obsticles in their way to lead successful lives. We were like a big "eraser" but the joke was on us. Trying to clean up their problems DOES NOT really make them go away it only prolongs the inevidible.

I learned in years of Al anon (another secret I held for many years was that my ex-husband of 30 yrs. was a severe alcoholic) that exposing a secret, whether it be alcoholism, drug abuse or some other situation is the beginning of the healing process. It's like taking the big green monster out of the closet. But with that said, it doesn't mean the healing will be an easy or short journey. The important thing is that even if (and this is hard to do) your son doesn't start on the right path for healing, you must begin taking care of yourselves and healing yourselves through self-care.

You and your wife must be the change in the situation and can only hope and pray that while you are changing that your son will begin changing.

Keep posting, it helps.

Jay Pee ,We have Two sons also, My 32 year old we have done the same thing you did. Got in trouble and we had things erased while he was a teen. He has had Dui ,Drug possession and now theif, forgery charge. Yes we try to hid it from the public. But around here your posted in the local paper for arrest. We have paid out to clean up messes he has made for years hoping he would change his ways and get smart. He thinks he is 007 and can get out of any thing but doesnt. Here is a story for you. My 29 year old about 7 years ago had 3 court dates in three different counties in the same month. Just raising hell. Dui at court and cop didnt read him his rights. Only got a wreckless driving ticket. Drunken fighting in large downtown and people didn't show up for court so dropped the charges. Public drunk in a small town and I told him to stay home with his buddys that night. Called me at 3 the next morning to get him out of jail that he had to be in court @9 that morning. Let your buddys get you out.He only had to pay a fine. Now he works very hard has a wife ,18 month old son and going to build anew house. Very happy he got that out of his system. I only wish I could get my 32 year old to use him as a example. I have had a long road, gonna get longer it looks. We are trying to do self care. Learning how is the next step. Thank you for your reply and my god bless us all.

 

[Andy4382]

I felt this way too, that it was my responsibility to see that my son learned how to live well, that he got the skills to build a decent life. No. It was not my responsibility. It's his. If he chose to not go to college or to vocational rehabilitation that was a choice. Instead, I pushed and pushed and pushed the stone up the hill, and it rolled back down. My learning was to focus upon myself and my own life. Yes. It hurts. Yes. I'm scared. What's changed is that's the background, not the main event.

He had worked as a teen with a good work ethic. The older he got the less he wanted to work. He really was not the college type but if he wanted to go that have been fine. He did try a vocational school for industrial maintance. But ended up at the creek party insteed. So yes he had chances to do well. His addiction has just took control of what he does just about every single day. Thanks for your reply

 

[Deni D]

Andy I'm so sorry for your situation. I have not read all of the replies to your posts. I can see from your posts you have done everything a normal parent would do. You have supported him, which makes us crazy with adult children like ours trying to figure out what is supporting verses what is enabling. What is helpful, what is not. And then it spirals down to thinking we need to do what will keep them alive, just horrible. We shouldn't have to figure that out, we can't. And yeah you have gotten angry with him, from the fear of what he is doing to himself, what he doing to you and your family. That's normal.

But what he is doing to himself is not something you have any control over. And the sad truth of it is you cannot keep him alive. I know this is not just a hard pill to swallow but a breathtaking, hearth choking, reality. Something you already know. If things are going to change he needs to reach down into himself to do this, if he does.

I can tell you are hoping if the court orders him into rehab he will have no choice and then will have to go through it. But the thing is he will not have to go through it, even court ordered, and even if he does walk through the motions he does not have to have his head in it. Especially if he thinks he can prove he can't and then go back to taking advantage of those he has in the past. You have said he had a good work ethic as a teenager but then he slipped on that. That's good he had that good work ethic back then, bad he went sideways when adulthood came along. Something I can relate to with my son, and many others here. And something my son has proven to me I have no influence over since he's been an adult.

From my understanding you have him in your home right now, awaiting a court date after the coronavirus situation is not so restrictive and the courts open up. This is not an easy time for anyone, under the best circumstances. Might I suggest you and your wife, if she is willing, get a counselor who you can meet with online now. An addiction counselor who will help guide you both with how to navigate this now and going forward. This is not something any of us can handle on our own. Also if the counselor doesn't seem like someone who you can connect to, then move on and find another one. That's something that is typical with counselors.

Wishing you the best.

 

[Andy4382]

Andy I'm so sorry for your situation. I have not read all of the replies to your posts. I can see from your posts you have done everything a normal parent would do. You have supported him, which makes us crazy with adult children like ours trying to figure out what is supporting verses what is enabling. What is helpful, what is not. And then it spirals down to thinking we need to do what will keep them alive, just horrible. We shouldn't have to figure that out, we can't. And yeah you have gotten angry with him, from the fear of what he is doing to himself, what he doing to you and your family. That's normal.

But what he is doing to himself is not something you have any control over. And the sad truth of it is you cannot keep him alive. I know this is not just a hard pill to swallow but a breathtaking, hearth choking, reality. Something you already know. If things are going to change he needs to reach down into himself to do this, if he does.

I can tell you are hoping if the court orders him into rehab he will have no choice and then will have to go through it. But the thing is he will not have to go through it, even court ordered, and even if he does walk through the motions he does not have to have his head in it. Especially if he thinks he can prove he can't and then go back to taking advantage of those he has in the past. You have said he had a good work ethic as a teenager but then he slipped on that. That's good he had that good work ethic back then, bad he went sideways when adulthood came along. Something I can relate to with my son, and many others here. And something my son has proven to me I have no influence over since he's been an adult.

From my understanding you have him in your home right now, awaiting a court date after the coronavirus situation is not so restrictive and the courts open up. This is not an easy time for anyone, under the best circumstances. Might I suggest you and your wife, if she is willing, get a counselor who you can meet with online now. An addiction counselor who will help guide you both with how to navigate this now and going forward. This is not something any of us can handle on our own. Also if the counselor doesn't seem like someone who you can connect to, then move on and find another one. That's something that is typical with counselors.

Wishing you the best.

Supporting and enabling is different. We support him by telling him we love him, so proud your not doing any drugs now, keep your head up it will get better, thank you for your help. Is enabling a place to sleep, eat and shower. If he his doing anything for himself? Sometime its best that I don't say anything about what's going on or ask questions how he is doing. He thinks I'm trying to tell him what he needs to be doing or what have you been doing or where have you been. Why start a argument, it just pisses him off. My only grand son had his first easter egg hunt and I ask the wife to mention about mowing the yard before Saturday to him and he wanted to fuss with her saying it doesn't need to be mowed. We wanted it mowed but he didn't think it needed it. I was present during the conversation but keep my mouth shut. Then later on he wanted to fuss on me for telling his mom to ask him to mow. Yes I told her to ask you just to see your reaction and yes it pissed him off. See for many,many years my son and I have put my wife between us. Its a hard habit to quit. She has been in not a good place at all. So really its not ever good around here all the time. All my wife and I want is peace, quite and no drama. I've been meaning to look into counseling for the wife and I. Thanks for your reply

 

[Andy4382]

Dear Andy: There are so many of us who have been in this place, myself included. My son has a potentially fatal chronic disease for which he requires medication. I put him out. He has been homeless off and on many years. He stabilized on medication the last time he was with me, but I could not keep on the way I was. Because he used my support as a haven to continue his addiction. I stopped buying him food, and he went to a Sober Living Home. For 3 months, he was stable continuing on his medication. This week he left there. Now I am in the same old place. Terrified that he is unstable again and he will discontinue his medication.

The thing all of us have to face is that they have to choose to live. And with G-d's help, they have to choose how to live. I came to the belief that any illusion of control I had, any sense that I could protect and guide my son was a fantasy.

My son's addiction has went from knocking him out in my own living room, asking him to leave, telling him to get out and putting his cloths in the driveway. That never lasted long, I'm sorry I want do it again, I have nowhere to go and I don't have any money. Made him go to a rehab ,when he walked out after 30 days I had him arrested and he is back again after 5 weeks or so. Now I'm in the same old place. Just cant seem to turn your back on someone you love for any reason. I know he has done a whole lot worse to us than if we turn or backs on him. My wife and I need self care right now is what I believe. From what I have been reading on here is: 1- My son should not be living in the same house as we do. 2- My son should be working a rehab center non-stop to beat his addiction if he really wants to be clean and not trying over and over again and again to do it himself. 3- Realize that we as parents are not at fault for his addiction. 4- My son needs to be accountable for his actions over his arrest of theft and forgery charge. 5- My son needs to take responsibility taking care of his own bills and affaires. There may be more , but that's all I got right now. I pray for that someday I want need this place to come to. But I want to think you y'all for you wisdom and replys. My god bless you all.

 

[Crayola13]

I'm not a fan of 12-step programs. There seems to be a high failure rate. I think DBT therapy is better force one addicts, especially those who use drugs because of anxiety or depression.

 

[BusynMember1]

Nothing is good for addicts. The relapse rate is huge. Even with renowned rehabs. If the person doesn't want to be clean, nothing works. Not long term.

We got some guts after a decade and completely stopped giving our daughter a cent. We had bought her a house, a mobile home, paid rent when she lost both and bought her three cars, groceries and baby needs. It didn't help her one bit to enable her. She now lives in some state in an old camper. Her sister has her son, thank God.

I don't think most have to be taught living skills. They watch us every day and learn. Kay was just lazy. My other two knew houw to be an adult. We never sat them down and gave them lessons. We just showed them.

I think now that we make ourselves way too important in this. They know how to behave. They just won't do it. Or can't. Usually won't and if can't they refuse to get help to learn how to do better.

Easter came and went with no word from Kay. She didn't even call her son. But we had a family get together anyway, along with social distancing and masks, and we had fun without her.

Kay can never live with us again and we no longer give her things. So she cut us off. That proves to me that she doesn't love us. We have given her to God. He can do it and we can't.

Blessings to all.

 

[Blindsided]

So for 30 years he has been under our roof. How do I explain that to even myself. I sometimes fell I have let him down by not teaching him to survive on his on.

Thank you for your well wishes, they are very much appreciated.

Andy, I want you to know I have been where you are. Second guessing, accepting guilt like it is a thorn in my crown. Like self sacrifice and suffering would somehow change the outcome. Then beat myself up for thinking that. What I have learn to accept is that we can't change anyone's behavior but our own.

It is from love that I learned to set boundaries for me. What am I willing to accept? Am I operating from a place of logic vs emotions? What is reasonable to expect from any other adult? I finally realized I had to get out of my Difficult Child way.

It's so hard. I have read books written by Christian's, Buddhists, clergy, therapist and they all have the same advise. We have to be willing to do the work within us. In a way, set the example for our Difficult Child.

Wishing you and yours a clear path forward

 

[JayPee]

“Do you want the temporary pain of progress or the eternal pain of staying the same?”

“If I continue trying to do what only God can do, I will make myself miserable.”

Just a few nuggets of wisdom to think on.

From my experience it’s not impossible but extremely difficult to begin the healing you need until you come to grips that your son cannot live with you any longer. You will arrive at that with courage and strength to make that decision when you’re ready. Not a minute sooner.

For the longest time I felt that my two sons and the lives they were leading were separate from me in the healing process. I always thought it was them who needed to grow and heal and become better but I realized this journey is as much about my growth and change as theirs.

Take baby steps in the right direction.

 

[Triedntrue]

Andy your story is familiar to me right down to having cases in 3 counties at the same time actually for a short while 4. I stopped going to court or paying bail. The court system is very flawed. You have gotten good advice here. Use what you think is best for you. Prayers.

 

[Andy4382]

Andy your story is familiar to me right down to having cases in 3 counties at the same time actually for a short while 4. I stopped going to court or paying bail. The court system is very flawed. You have gotten good advice here. Use what you think is best for you. Prayers.

That was my 29 year old son now. He got his wild side out of himself and is a fine young , hard working man now. I just wish my 32 year old son would look at him and use that as an example.

 

[Blindsided]

“Do you want the temporary pain of progress or the eternal pain of staying the same?”

“If I continue trying to do what only God can do, I will make myself miserable.”

Love those nuggets, thank you JayPee.

 

[Andy4382]

I'm not sure if this is where you give updates or not ,but here it is. He is still living with us, we send him to grocery store with debit card and a list and he thinks that is his card to get want ever he wants to. I don't mind feeding him but your not buying the food. He has no job and hasn't really put any effort to get one. He will sometimes work for a brick crew , they use him to set up and that's all. One to two days a week. He worked 3 hours yesterday with me doing some grade work for a garage and porches. He really didn't want to work , my wife said he was probably on pills cause he was acting lazy. I tell him all the time find a job that will work you 40 hours a week. It doesn't have to pay $100,000.00 (that's his thinking) a year. Fast food places always looking for help. The order to stay at home doesn't concern him. He stayed out all night god knows where. Never told us ,didn't reply by his phone. Just today we seen where he has used or debit card to get $80 out of or account when we sent him to sonic to get us all supper. That's stealing from us again. so now what?

 

[Copabanana]

Dear Andy

That's stealing from us again. so now what?

The answers are in you and the responsibility is yours, not his. He is an adult man who gets to decide about his own life, which he is doing. He is deciding to NOT work. He is deciding to steal from his parents. He is deciding to ignore the stay at home order. He is deciding what to buy at the store with your money. He is deciding to ingest pills. Right or wrong all of these decisions he is free to make, and he has done so.

Now, you have the right to make decisions too. Which you are doing.

He is still living with us, we send him to grocery store with debit card and a list and he thinks that is his card to get want ever he wants to.

You decided to give him your card, carte blanch to buy whatever he wants to, despite the fact he has stolen from you before, under the same circumstance. Even had he not specifically stolen in exactly the same way, you already know that he is not trustworthy. Nonetheless, you chose to give him the card.

He really didn't want to work , my wife said he was probably on pills cause he was acting lazy.

You know he doesn't want to work. He has made this clear consistently. Instead, you continue to repeat this to him even though he ignores You:

I tell him all the time find a job that will work you 40 hours a week.

He jeopardizes his own safety and yours because he chooses to. .

The order to stay at home doesn't concern him. He stayed out all night god knows where.

That he does so with his own life is his business to do. But you have decided to jeopardize your own health, and your wife has decided to jeopardize her own health, by permitting him to enter and reenter your home at will.

Again, you've made the decision, here to trust him again with your debit card:

he has used or debit card to get $80 out of or account when we sent him to sonic to get us all supper.

You bear the responsibility here, not him. He has made the decision over and over again to transgress reasonable boundaries with money. Call it theft. Call it sharing. Call it borrowing. But he chooses to take what is yours without your consent. And you choose to overlook it by over and over again trusting him when he has decided over and over again to take from you.

His living with you if you look at it one way is one whole take what I can get to fuel my lifestyle. My lifestyle consists of laying around, drugging and doing whatever I damn well please, no matter who I hurt or even kill. Life has gotten that serious lately. I hope to G-d you decide to stop him.

Andy. All of us go through this. Until we decide to stop.

 

[JayPee]

Andy I think Copa said it all and if I may add her advice has helped me in my healing tremendously.

When you truly are ready to change you will. You are going through the process so to speak. Sometimes as we post it puts it all on paper. The good the bad and the ugly. Often times we are seeing it for what it really is for the first time. Again realizing the problem is part of the recovery. When we come to this forum we are often surprised that we play a role in it but that’s ok.

Please remember that allowing others to take advantage of us is our own fault. Don’t let your son convince you that you aren’t worth having your needs and boundaries met and respected.

 

[Triedntrue]

On bank sites you can change your pin i suggest you do so. Then stop giving it to him. Even if it is more effort to go yourself. He may be buying things he can sell for drugs. Maybe you can give him a deadline for when he has to have a full time job. If he doesn't consequences. I would not give him any more access to your money.
If there is something you feel he has to have buy the item.

 

[Beta]

“If I continue trying to do what only God can do, I will make myself miserable.”

I like this. Very good quote to remember when I'm trying to play God.