Struggling with decisions

[Lil]

I'm late coming to this thread and first, let me say I'm sorry you've gone thru this. With respect to law, every state is somewhat different. But, as a general rule, custody is never set in stone. So if you finalize custody she will still be able to regain custody again in the future unless they completely terminate her parental rights. So...for legal custody purposes, you could go ahead, finalize and you'll be secure. Let her know if her she gets her stuff together you can revisit custody then...but until then, your grandchild is safe in your care. Of course, talk to your lawyer...he's in the right state.

 

[litbitblack]

I just wonder if she can fight the finalization of the temporary orders. All she heard at the initial custody hearing was the judge say she needed to get her charges taken care of before she could get her back. in her mind receiving probation for all of her charges means they are taken care of so she feels I should drop the hearing and let her have her back but she would allow her to live with me..

 

[recoveringenabler]

litbitblack, I am coming to your thread late, however, I do have a bit of experience with raising my own granddaughter because my daughter was not capable. I suggest that you follow through on the custody for now, just so you have the safety of knowing the law is on YOUR side.

My granddaughter was 11 when I went to court for temporary guardianship and then ultimately I received permanent guardianship. It was a grueling experience as you likely are aware. I always believed my daughter would get it together and petition the court to regain custody but that was not to be. My granddaughter is now 21 and doing exceptionally well all things considered. My choices to protect her at all costs were the right choices......but I didn't always know that as I was going through it.

Our difficult adult kids often seem as if they truly believe they will pull it all together, and sometimes they do, however, with a young child in the mix, I think the child's welfare has to come before any promises your daughter makes. Perhaps after she has worked for a year, shown she is stable, has her own place and is not using drugs or alcohol, you can reconsider. We parents want so much to believe our kids, no matter what, that we can lose sight of reality and allow them to manipulate us into doing what they want. Your grandchild sounds stable and healthy now, pulling her out of your safe environment doesn't sound like a good idea.

Your daughter may fight the finalization of the temporary orders, my daughter fought me throughout.......however, given your daughter's history, the charges and the fact that your grandchild has been with you for years, sounds to me as if that will all weight heavily on your side, at least for now.

For your own health and well being, you might consider getting support for YOU......many folks here find 12 step groups to be very helpful, in particular Families Anonymous and Al Anon or Narc Anon. If your daughter has mental issues, you might connect with NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, they have chapters in many cities and you can reach them online too. They have excellent courses for parents with terrific resources for both you and your daughter. Most of us here have good support systems set up because dealing with our difficult kids is extremely challenging. There are also agencies set up to assist grandparents who are raising their grandkids....since it is epidemic now. I found a good one near me and they helped with the guardianship and offered support groups as well.

You might find the article on detachment at the bottom of my post helpful.

Hang in there, keep posting, get support for you and follow your own instincts, right now I don't think your daughter's instincts can be trusted. She needs to prove for a much longer time then 1 1/2 months that she is ready to take on the role of mother. I know it's tough to be in the middle and hold your ground, but I believe that is the appropriate thing to do given the circumstances you've described.

 

[DoneDad]

We're going through some of the same stuff, have a hearing for temporary guardianship of 3 year old grandson next Wed. Daughter signed a form saying she agrees with it, "father" is likely to contest it.

As to your situation, do what's right for you and for your granddaughter. If you have legal protection for your status, I'd think long and hard before I gave it up. Your daughter wants to have custody of the child but have you take care of it? That gives her a lot of leverage over you (let me and my new boyfriend move in, or I'm taking daughter and we'll live in a motel) with your granddaughter a potential pawn in whatever schemes she comes up with.

It sounds like your granddaughter is where she needs to be right now. Your daughter chose to get involved in a criminal lifestyle. You didn't choose it. Your granddaughter didn't choose it. She's got a lot of work to do before she'll be in a position to be a full time responsible mother.

 

[litbitblack]

Hello all. It has been some times since I have posted and some things have happened. First off, the job she had she got fired from. It was at 7-11. Apparently a money order came up missing. She said she misprinted one and placed where she was supposed to. On the camera it shows her picking up paperwork from the same place ( or near the place as she says) and walking out the door. So she got fired and an investigation was opened with detectives. I honestly do not know what to think. You want to give the benefit of the doubt but....then you recall all the times you did that. Since then she wanted my GD pretty frequently as she was sure she was going to jail. She didn't have a job to pay her fees and what do you know.....money comes up missing at my moms where she is staying. First its $40 missing then of course there are 2 more debits on the credit union account that show then the topper... my mom caught her kneeling on the floor beside her bed (mom hid her money in between the mattresses) at 630 am. My daughter claimed she was looking for a piece of paper but of course now $170 is missing.....Of course she says she didn't take it....No to mention that the week prior she has been acting funny, begging for money from both me and mom, and my mom said she was antsy....So I bought my mom a safe.....I have the keys.....and it pisses me off because my mom shouldn't have to live in fear and lock up her money to keep it from getting taken. I also believe she is using again. I did catch her high on something- she said she was drinking but she looked like she does when she smokes weed. She hasn't wanted to visit with her daughter and answers her loudly in which my gd starts crying so we started avoiding her and gd has been much better. It is so frustrating watch her throw her life away. I did talk to my attorney about finalizing the temp. custody. Obviously her having a threat of going to jail so soon after getting out will be good. My attorney doesn't feel like there will be an issue even if she shows up (we have to serve her because she filed an answer but dad who is in jail did not so we do not have to notify him) any how that's what has been going on in my neck....

 

[Tanya M]

Thanks for the update. Is she still staying at your moms?
If you don't feel your mom is safe you might want to talk to her about it. If she doesn't want your daughter there anymore then she needs to tell her to leave.

I know what you mean, you want to give them the benefit of the doubt but they make it pretty hard to do that when money comes up missing.

I'm glad things are progressing along with you getting custody of your GD.

Hang in there, you're not alone. Keep us posted.

((HUGS))

 

[litbitblack]

Yes she is still at my moms - who is a softy- she did tell me she slept really good with her wallet in the safe though so that's helpful..\

 

[DoneDad]

Thank you for update. Interesting that GD is doing better after you limited time with difficult daughter. Have you told your mom about this site or about detachment and boundaries? It's a shame she's being taken advantage of.

 

[Copabanana]

These are crimes she is perpetuating on everybody. She knows that. Anything you do to insulate yourself, your granddaughter from her, to me, makes sense. And I would speak candidly to your mother about how you see your daughter's behavior. People do recover from drug use but not because they are enabled and pitied. They do stop when they have to face the consequences. I do not think it is out of line to tell your mother this and how you feel. I am sorry for the pain of this.

 

[New Leaf]

Hello lbb, I am late coming into this discussion, it's been a long hard recovery after dealing with the hellish roller coaster ride with my daughters and three grands. Reading your posts, you have been on a much steeper, curvier and more frustrating ride than I have. It seems the system is bent on "keeping families together" and protecting rights of parents over the health and well being of our grandchildren, it is heart wrenching to see babies go through so much. I applaud your effort to provide a loving, stable home for your granddaughter while suffering court imposed visitations that clearly are not healthy for you or your grandchild. It is an abomination to me. Everyone deserves a chance, but after years of drug use and criminal activity when is enough, enough? I feel that there comes a time when the focus should shift to the grandchildren, so that they have an opportunity to grow up in a loving, caring environment. Sorry for the vent. The background of that is that we had our grands and were willing to raise them, their parents were on the fringe so to speak as they stayed enough out of trouble with the law, but remain mired in the swamp of addiction and domestic violence and are able to show a premise of "pulling it together" to hang on to their kids. I am sure deep in their hearts they "love" them, but not enough to maintain a stable home. Sometimes I feel that they are their "cash cows" to hang on to food stamps that help them survive. Okay enough venting.
Below is your statement that struck a chord with me.

Yes she is still at my moms - who is a softy- she did tell me she slept really good with her wallet in the safe though so that's helpful..\

We went through years of trying to "help" my two daughters, they were in and out of the house months at a time. Same old story, money, jewelry gone missing (of course it was never them......). Hubs and I began locking our wallets in our cars. We had to put key locks on their siblings bedroom doors to keep them from helping themselves to their belongings. My young and wise son came to me one day and said, "Mom, why do we have people living with us that we can't trust and we have to lock our valuables up?"
It was so simple and true.
This was the beginning of my wake up call. My daughters had taken complete advantage of us, ripped us off, brought friends over the house while we were working, the list goes on and on.
The difficulty is that we are thinking and acting with our hearts and our addicted adult children just know how to get to their family members to take them in, then walk all over them. They use family ties and our love as an opportunity to continue as is.
I agree with Copa that you should try to help your Mom understand this. But, your Mom is an adult and will make her own decisions (unless Mom is elderly and not capable of protecting herself).
It is hard enough for us as parents to go down this road, can't imagine a grandmother being subjected to it.
I am sorry for your heartache and the stress of this journey. It is a most difficult road to be on. I hope you are able to take time for you, to rest and strengthen yourself.
(((Hugs))
Leafy

 

[litbitblack]

Well it's been a little while since I've posted and things haven't really changed . We do finally have a final hearing for custody in September. I am not sure if my daughter is aware of this court hearing it or not. Thanks have not really changed with her. Her pending charge for the money order theft is pending still. The detective did come to talk to her and she told my mom that they said that it did look like she took the money order and they were going to continue to investigate so I'm not sure if that means they are going to actually pass charges I'm not positive how that works. She told my my mom that her probation officer said that she was not going to violate her for that that she would just do some time in jail I'm not sure how accurate that is. Her behavior has not changed and she continues to have that I can get what I want attitude. She's barely making enough to pay her probation and court fees and continues to live with my mother as well as collect food stamps claiming her daughter who does not live with her. The dad remains in jail with a release date in September. My younger daughter purchased a car but does not yet have her full license . I had to put the car in my name because she does not have her lesson chair and a schedule to take her test in August. I also have to have the car and my youngest daughter to my insurance so that she could drive it and with that I excluded the older daughter and my son that it was the best way to get the cheapest insurance. We went to a wedding a week ago and her car was going to stay here so I took her car keys and left them with my son because I know she would allow her sister to drive her car. Which is exactly what happened and my oldest daughter got pissed off because I wouldn't give her the keys and proceeded to call me a and a whore and shut the up etc. She also proceeded to tell me that I was saved in her contacts as My first name rather than mom and that because she was my daughter it was my responsibility to make sure that she was taking care of while we were gone. My son left the keys on the desk and she came and got them and I informed her that if anything happens it is unauthorized use of a vehicle and she can expect charges because I am not going to be responsible for her getting into any trouble with that vehicle. I also informed my youngest daughter that if something happened her car and then she would be without one . We have been back a week and the one daughter has not given The other daughter her car back. She comes to pick her up and takes her to work.so I imagine there's gonna be a big fight when she actually does get her License. Since she has had the car I have noticed that she is staying up at night for more than one day at a time and then crashing and always has a strange person in the car. She has posted on Facebook if anybody was awake for that smoke and it makes me think that she's out dealing again. My mom said she saw her driving over on a crackhouse out of town . And I figure it's just a matter of time until she's in jail for something or another . My attorney tells me I shouldn't have any problems with getting permanent custody and I'm also going to ask the supervisor visits and restrict the Dad from visiting as he didn't visit when he had supervised visits as well as the dad mom posted on her Facebook page a threat for kidnapping and I did get a picture of the post. I try not to feel bad thinking negative thoughts but I really feel she needs to spend time in jail. Uggg it's so frustrating!!!

 

[BusynMember]

Hi. Im sorry things are so bad.

Why on earth do you pay for their car or insurance? You dont have to. They sure dont use a car right. And they are so abusive to you

It will not make them appreciate you more, like you deserve, to buy them things. If any of my grown kids called me by my first name, I wouldnt act like a mom at all. I may not even respond to them when they spoke until they called me by my title. That is so disrespectful. And whore? Really? I would put this daughter on very low contact and cut off the money.

I hope you can start taking care of yourself and detaching from the insane daughter drama. You deserve to keep your hard earned money.

You are an awesome grandma for getting custody of those precious kids!! Hurray for you!

 

[litbitblack]

The daughter that is the big issue -criminal crap and my gd mother isn't the one who bought the car thats the youngest who is a full time college student and bought the car herself. I don't do anything at all for the one calling the names. Well i would go pick her up or get the occasional pack of cigarettes but I guarentee i am not available for that stuff anymore. The youngest who bought the car still lives at home. She bought it from the pastor but was taking so long to pick it up the pastor asked me if i could just go ahead and put it in my name because she was still having to pay insurance on it even though it was already sold. I was also going to have to either add her to my current insurance or they would automatically do it in 30 days and she only has a learners license so she also couldn't put the car in her name. She pays her part of the insurance - she has the first one so far as it just started. She takes her test august 9th and i will be transferring the title then. if she is going to give in and let her drive it then I am not going to be responsible and I dont think my younger daughter understands the legal part of it. She just listens to her loud mouth sister who guilts her for calling the cops on her (yes this was a recent guilt because the youngest tried to get the car back). Thanks for the comment and encouragement.

 

[susiestar]

You are a wonderful Grandma! You are a wonderful Mom to your college daughter also! The other daughter has a much better Mom than she deserves!

I think it is time to sit your college age daughter down with her insurance agent for a talk about what happens if criminal daughter wrecks the car, or if it gets stolen while criminal daughter is driving it. All about how it won't be covered if College daughter lets Criminal daughter drive it, because Criminal daughter is not covered due to Criminal daughter's driving history. Let College daughter make the choice of paying for Criminal daughter to be insured, or to pay for Criminal daughter to have an accident. Because if they can prove that College daughter let Criminal daughter have the car, then Criminal daughter gets into an accident while driving under the influence, then College daughter can be sued and it could take years of College daughter's income to pay that off. Then maybe let a cop discuss with College daughter the impact on her future the felony from letting Criminal daughter drive her car without insurance and get into an accident, and that doesn't even include the cost of the accident from driving without insurance. At least in some states it includes the car owner in the felony.

My sis-in-law is an insurance agent and she sat a family down for a similar talk. I think she scared the pants off of the kids in the family. They had cousins with bad driving records they kept letting drive their cars. When they saw the actual cost they could have to pay if they got into an accident, it stopped that nonsense. People don't realize how expensive even a minor accident could actually be. I bet if you talked to your insurance agent ahead of time, he or she could work up some numbers that could talk some sense into your College daughter. If possible, get a police officer to also come and discuss the impact on her life for allowing her sister to drive her vehicle, knowing her sister drives under the influence and without insurance. This can be a big legal problem for your daughter, and if she is informed, could save her a huge hassle. Depending on what she wants to do with her life, it could even save her career.

 

[litbitblack]

So we got a date for finalizing the custody orders. Its scheduled the day before the bio dad gets out of jail. He currently has visitation orders for every 2 weeks at chuck e cheese and Im glad the hearing is before he gets out because I was definitely tired of having to show up knowing he wasn't going to most of the time- I think he only came to 4. Now granddaughters mom knows about the hearing and believes I should just drop the custody order with the belief that I can still have her live with me and still see her ect but she would maintain custody. I don't really have a response to her about this. She is focusing so much on custody like she is losing her daughter but I can not very well give in as she could come take her when ever she wanted when I didn't give her what she wants and she is already showing suspicious behavior and I suspect she is dealing weed again according to her facebook post. of course now days these people are smart enough to get by probation officers with drug test. She has lost her second job in 5 months, cant get income based housing d/t her hx and criminal record, doesn't have an income at this time to be able to even afford it. She is just focused on the custody thing. Maybe I just don't understand her point of view but I do not trust her. She is associating custody with her cousin who I fought for custody when she was 4. my nieces dad signed an affidavit agreeing to it and my sister was in jail. We even did a social study and it was recommened she live with me. I had the right to choose where she lived and im not sure they do that anymore but I think that is what I need here. My sister left her 10 yr old daughter a note and left the state.. The note said lock the door don't open it for anyone and ill be back tomorrow after school and she was already terrified of cops so when the dad called the sheriffs dept and they tried to get her to open the door she wouldn't. This is just one episode when i had allowed her to go back to my sister in one of the many chances i gave her to raise her daughter. She believes I gave my sister a hard time getting her daughter back because of course that is what my sister told her but I had custody because my sister was a meth addict and was not able to take care of her but I didn't fight her on it when my niece was older and went to live with her when she was more stable and my home environment had changed. So please some words of encouragement and maybe views on explaining it to her....I get lost for words as she is crying explaining that gd can still live with me and visit me that im not losing her she is just maintaining custody.....so frustrating. kudos to me thougth after our last argument - the name calling because I wouldn't give up the car keys ect... she texted me last night asking for cigarettes and I didn't respond- I could feel myself starting to give in though

 

[Littleboylost]

Wow that is a handful and a half. Do what your gut is telling tou to do. You are not alone. Good luck with the hearing. I think not taking custody would leave you in limbo and your GD at risk. She is lucky to have you.

 

[BusynMember]

Why do you even need advice? Your small grandchildren are at stake and daughter has repeatedly not tsken care of them? So what if she cries? Better her thsn the grands she did not tske care of.

Here is my advice: less is more. Dont talk in detail to daughter. "You are smart and know why I have to do this. It isnt negotiable." If she carries on, stop texting/talking. "I love you, but I have to go." If you keep letting her refute what you say and plead to you, it will drive you nuts and make you doubt a good and generous decision you made. Low contact with daughter. Once a week maybe and only until this subject comes up


2. She cant live with you. Period. It is not good for anyone but her. She is old enough to find her own way. Or not. At home with you and kids she will undermine you, maybe steal...who know? Run off with kids? Not like she respects the laws. The kids need stability and she is only chaos. You cant save your daughter. She is no young kid and has never shown stability. She wont now either. You CAN save your grands.

3. YES, you should take custody of grands. If she cared for her kids this would not be an issue, but she wont and you know it. The kids matter first. They are still young.

Thats my ,02. Take it or leave it.

 

[DoneDad]

If you give up your legal standing, the name calling over car keys could have been, "Give me the car keys or you'll never see GD again." who cares if she cries - she's made her choices and now gets to live with them. You're doing what's right by keeping GD safe. Focus on you and the innocents in the situation.

 

[litbitblack]

Why do you even need advice? Your small grandchildren are at stake and daughter has repeatedly not tsken care of them? So what if she cries? Better her thsn the grands she did not tske care of.

Here is my advice: less is more. Dont talk in detail to daughter. "You are smart and know why I have to do this. It isnt negotiable." If she carries on, stop texting/talking. "I love you, but I have to go." If you keep letting her refute what you say and plead to you, it will drive you nuts and make you doubt a good and generous decision you crazy. Low contact with daughter.

2. She cant live with you. Period. It is not good for anyone but her. She is old enough to find her own way. Or not. At home with you and kids she will undermine you, maybe steal...who know? Run off with kids? Not like she respects the laws. The kids need stability and she is only chaos. You cant save your daughter. She is no young kid and has never shown stability. She wont now either.

3. YES, you should take custody of grands. If she cared for her kids this would not be an issue, but she wont and you know it. The kids matter first. They are still young.

Thats my ,02. Take it or leave it.

Thanks Ill take it.....she is good at pestering and begging until she gets what she wants then cusses you when she doesn't. She knows she won't ever live with me that is a hands down no

 

[litbitblack]

If you give up your legal standing, the name calling over car keys could have been, "Give me the car keys or you'll never see GD again." who cares if she cries - she's made her choices and now gets to live with them. You're doing what's right by keeping GD safe. Focus on you and the innocents in the situation.

Thats what i think as well....thanks