Talked to husband last night. Ideas? Thoughts? Am I expecting too much?

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
I agree with Busywend somewhat--

You are definitely a Type A personality. I could never keep up with your schedule!

I don't see the "control" thing, though. Leadership? Sure. Control? Hmmm....eh?

I like the idea of checking into testosterone levels or screening for depression. The fact that he has no hopes or dreams for the future (even misguided ones) is a sign that something is wrong.
 

KTMom91

Well-Known Member
Yes, the link worked.

His behavior is definitely disrespectful. All that cooking for only him? I suppose you are supposed to feed yourself and Wee. And then clean the entire mess up.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
And that picture is mild. If he wanted to fix himself something else in that time frame, he'd have just stacked the stuff up on one burner, gotten another skillet, or whatever, and gone for it.

He fixed himself a plate of leftovers last night. I finally had to stop and fix something for Wee. I guess I can be partly to blame for that, tho, cause I've gotten to be less "willing" to cook for the whole crew lately...which doesn't solve any problems, but its not like I'm not telling him why.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
When you are under alot of stress the barely acceptable becomes insanely unacceptable. That's true with kids and with husband's. I am a "doer" by nature and I truly understand what you are saying. My husband doesn't have a bad bone in his body but...he no longer steps up to the plate. I absolutely know that if I had an obvious need for help he would do everything he could to help me. The thing is I do nothave a needy type personality. As we both have aged he does almost nothing. He used to do the laundry, cook meals and clean the kitchen etc. As he phased out...I naturally phased in to get the jobs done. I have to ask "will you please do xxx this evening?" I don't ask for anything long term. Just short term requests...and I don't do it often. He will do it. With his personality I gave up years ago trying to make blanket type requests. What bugs me most? He honestly does feel that he is doing me a favor! :sigh:

Since your husband is thirty years plus younger than mine I suggest that you choose one chore (2?) and say " I feel overwhelmed (or some single descripton) and I need you to make a committment to me that every day you will do X. It is very important that i know you can be counted on to do X." Try to choose a job that he does not find offensive but will help your environment.

I made a mistake and let it slide too long. Actually I think that he backed off when we were under massive stress with the boys and I didn't want the hassle of conflict with my spouse. Good luck. DDD
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I just spoke to the counselor, not specifically about this, but I told her about it.'

She said she saw good things in that conversation coupled with my feeling that he's not trying to call my bluff etc. She said she doesn't think he's ever been taught what respect is.

She's kinda funny cause then she said 'you're mission, if you choose to accept it, is to teach him what respect is and how to give it.' lol

Joking aside, that really makes sense...
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I got home tonight from PT and the electric fence was being fixed, the truck was unhooked, and the washer was running.

Hmmm...so maybe he does know what to do?
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Try to choose a job that he does not find offensive but will help your environment.

I just noticed this line....hahahaha. Good luck with that one. Pretty much if it doesn't involve sitting on a tractor, its offensive. He'll straight up tell ya he doesn't like to do "those" kind of things. He will cook. However, in order for that to be remotely helpful, I have to mandate he clean up, as well, cause, well, you saw how the cooking goes... Him cooking is not really a workload reduction for me...unless he cleans it up also.

But ya know what...he did load the dishwasher a lot while I was down. That was the one thing he would do semi-regularly. Maybe supper should be more "his" job now and wouldn't be something he'd object to. Its going into summer, he likes to grill. And if he takes on the chore of feeding the fam at night (and cleanup after), maybe that will give him the opportunity to learn why doing dishes does matter in the scheme of things...if you don't clean up, you have no room to work, and no tools to work with, ya know? I don't think he's ever had the opportunity to learn a lot of those "natural consequence" lessons. And with meals is going to come groceries, and with that comes a budget. Maybe that's one area that would be a less-offensive place to start, but with really a lot of things to learn in that area.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
That's the way to think. In sales, for example, you don't say "which house do you want to buy?" Or "let's get together sometime soon". If you want to make a sale you give options. "Shall we revisit the house on the cul de sac or would you prefer to see the house on the lake?" "Do you want to meet again this afternoon or tomorrow at lunch time?" In the real estate world and I think in other sales fields the mantra is KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. :bigsmile: Open choice lead to no choice. Making a commitment is difficult. Analyze what would work best and then have a brief conversation with your husband. "I
really need your help. Lately I have felt overwhelmed. I need you to help me with the household. Would you please make a committment? If you will be responsible for one chore on a daily basis I believe our lives will be happier. Would you be in charge of meals and kitchen clean up each day or would you xxx every day?"

Just like in sales I assure you it won't work if done in anger or negativity. Human nature leads all of us to want to be needed and loved and respected. I can't guarantee it will work but I think it is worth a positive shot. I wish I had followed this course a few years ago when the family was in mega crisis. I didn't. I am unhappy with the lack of chores division but it is not my husband
who dropped the ball...it was me. Good luck. DDD
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
I agree, DDD. And I feel better about the situation and really, nothing has changed, except my angle and approach. lol

If he truly doesn't know what respect is (and I look back on conversations with his mom, and OMG, that so fits...she thinks respect is "I didn't call you a *itch" - no, honey, its a whole lot deeper than that) and is doing this junk (or not) simply because he doesn't know any different, heck, that's an easy (theoretically speaking) fix (so long as he's willing...and given what was going on when I got home last night, I'm gonna venture a guess he's willing...) I'm willing to take that on.

He doesn't hate cooking. I hate when he cooks and doesnt follow-thru with clean-up cause he's such a flipping mess, and then I go to cook the next meal and the kitchen is a war zone, and it takes me twice as long to do what I need to do...so yeah, here's your piece, please take ownership, I think he might go for that. Will take time and help.

And exactly, 3D. While he's the one that needs to step up to really make change happen? I'm the dumb biddy that let it get to this point. I don't get off scott free here. Guilty as charged, and believe me, I know it!
 
P

PatriotsGirl

Guest
husband and I have been discussing what is whose responsibility lately. We split up the cooking - he cooks the days I have to go into the office and I cook when I work from home. Weekends are usually a joint effort. But we do have a rule that the other person clean up. So if he cooks, I clean up. If I cook, he cleans up. The rest of the "chores" we have split up. It works. Hopefully the two of you can get to a place where you feel things are more balanced. :)
 

busywend

Well-Known Member
Respect can be different to an individual for sure. He just would not put that word to what you are feeling.

Did you mention (not thank) but mention that you noticed he did those 3 things last night? It might be that he feels you do not recognize it - men can be babies about that.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Busywend...you're right on target. I know it sounds sexist but it is important to look for positive things to say. "Thanks" means alot to husband's. My husband almost always says something positive about the meals or the laundry or whatever. I guess he's keeping me "up" for more chores, lol. DDD
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
His family...is strange. I realize definitions aren't always going to be the same, but I think back to the conversation about cgfg several years ago...she absolutely saw nothing wrong with encouraging cgfg to hide things from her parents or for parents to put limits on the children, even where grandchildren are involved. She had never said a word against me - therefore, she was not disrespectful of me, regardless of her actions. Yet, she treats me like dirt. Even husband agrees. I guess I think actions demonstrate respect, and they don't seem to operate that way at all, regardless of what they call it. Regardless of what either of us call it, husband and I need to find some common ground with it.

And yes, I thanked him profusely.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Well, honeymoon's over. Had a meeting tonight. He didn't want to go along, he was gonna stay home and turn a horse out and fish. Night 3 of fishing. Knife used for filleting said fish is on them counter from last night. Walmart bag of guts sitting on the grill outisde the door, 2 nights now. Laundry in machine from last night still there. He made an entire brick of velveeta into cheese for nachos. He's been in the house since 7. In the chair with tv on as usual when I walked in.
After the meeting, I went to the hardware store and bought then PVC pipe to fix a water leak...I will be so glad when whatever resolution we come to is determined.... I HATE living like this.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Shari, have you gone back over your posts about him in the last year or two or however long they are saved on here? I think you might see a more long term pattern going on here. I am NOT saying that the idea to teach him how to be responsible and how to show you respect is not a good idea. I DO think you will see quite a pattern if you look back.

From what I remember of past posts about the chore/car/responsibility/respect issue, you get upset because you realize or see exactly ohw thing are with you doing all the work and him watching tv and doing just what he wants (including how he treats Wee and the other kids), you make comments or otherwise let him know you are not happy with his actions, he gets better for a very short time - a day or two to maybe a week if you really hit the ceiling, and then he goes back to doing what he was before. It seems like a very fast cycle, and that you give him a lot of positive feedback and thanks for what he does and even then you don't even get a true short term change.

Until you can see this pattern and work to understand why it is happening, I doubt you will ever see any real change in how the family behaves on these issues. i say family because it isn't just your husband doing more and being more responsible - you have to change and the kids have to change to understand that husband is in charge of some stuff and they have to deal with him on those issues instead of going to get you to "fix" whatever it is.

From here it doesn't even seem that he has any responsibility for cgfg while she is there. You seem to do things like shooting iwth her, pick up ad drop off, deal with her mom (I understand that is because she is impossible to deal with if husband tries), and do all the other stuff.

I think you are on the right road, but you may have more of a journey to retrain your husband than you are expecting. He is a very lucky man to have a wife as patient and hard working as you. I hope he truly understands this at some point in the future.
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
No I do, Susie. It's gone on way too long. He was never perfect but it has gotten progressively worse and you are right the past couple years, maybe slightly longer, have been like this.

The only slight difference being when I asked for help, he used to do it. Now, it's a maybe at best and it WON'T happen until he's done watching tv at midnight.

That line of thinking just gave me a bit more hope about the situation. That's fixable. If husband thinks this Is the way marriage works and sees nothing to fix, well, that's not fixable.

The difference I see now? I'm not capable of carrying the load I did before, and I don't know if I will ever get back to a point that I am. And now that I have seen just how deep this runs (ie how little he did when I was truly down), I am seriously bucking idea of falling back into that.
 
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Marguerite

Active Member
On the testosterone issue, husband gets monthly injections. Not sure about gel, haven't heard of it.

Shari, Busywend had some good points. But he's got to lift his game also. I was also wondering about depression being an issue for him - it can stop a bloke in his tracks and remove whatever motivation or planning capability he should have.

When husband's testosterone is low, he becomes almost incapable of thinking clearly and does not cope with stress well. That said, he is perfection itself compared to your husband. So low testosterone is not the excuse, not if my husband can do it.

What works for us - we are in each other's pockets, we work as a team. We sometimes do the same job side by side (ie hanging out the washing) or sometimes we do different parts of te same job. But we talk to one another about it and reinforce one another as we go. We plan, we work on it.

For example - husband just came home from mother in law's. I had been out to my choir practice, I always come home tired and was eating ice cream out of the tub. husband came to me and said, "A button came off my shirt. You know I would normally sew it back on myself but I am so tired my eyes won't focus - will you sew it on for me?"
I said I was happy to, but asked him to put my tub of ice cream back in the freezer and fetch me the sewing basket. So he did. He then said, "I saw the weather forecast - I know you weren't able to do the washing this week because you had to take my sister to the airport that day. Tomorrow is our only sunny day, can you please do a load of washing? difficult child 3, will you help your mother hang out the washing tomorrow?"
I said that difficult child 3 has more schoolwork to do tomorrow, but maybe if he & I work hard together for five minutes we'll get it all out, and then he can help me fetch it in before the dewfall. I suggested an early start, we should do the washing tonight.
husband said, "Good idea. I'll start off a load now."

We talked about it all. husband wen to start off the washing, he collected what there was. Told difficult child 3 to change his underwear so it could be washed. Asked me if I had any items that hadn't yet made it into the laundry. Got it organised. Meanwhile, I sewed the button back on. difficult child 3 came down to say good night, I asked him to return the sewing basket to its place. husband is now packing his lunch for tomorrow and will come to bed soon. difficult child 3 has gone to bed. Meanwhile mother in law called to say she was safely in bed (we get her to call each night in case she has a fall and ends up on the floor all night). I passed the message on.

We talk all the time, discuss, work together. If husband is cutting his salad for his lunch and I am at the fridge, I anticipate his need and pass ingredients to him. He does the same for me.

A good technique you could try with your husband - organise a dinner between you. Maybe invite only one other couple if you want to keep it simple. But make it clear - this is to be an exercise in mutual respect and cooperation, your husband has to help you as co-chef. It doesn't matter if he's **** at cooking. You need to treat him gently and not give him a hard time if he seems useless. He on the other hand can't use incompetence as a way out. Before you begin, you both need to agree on the menu and work out your combined game plan. This includes the shopping for ingredients. You can make this simple, or complex, depending on how much fuss you want to go to.

It's not only a test of a relationship, it's good training in teamwork. And a marriage has to be teamwork.

if he ever says, "I don't do X, I don't like it," make it clear that you don't like it either but someone has to do it and you've done more than your share. We can't go through life ducking our responsibilities. We all have to take a turn to scrub the toilet.

Back to the dinner party - plan an entree (or soup), a main and dessert. Ask husband what he would like. Then ask him what he feels he can work on. Or if he needs to work as your apprentice. That way you would be in control but also working alongside. For example, "Honey, would you peel the vegetables while I season the chicken? I'll cut up the vegetables when they're peeled."
When the vegetables are done and he's looking helpless, ask him to get the baking dishes out of the drawer and turn the oven on to heat up. Check that the oven shelves are in the correct position. Of course you will need to at times stop and talk him through it.

Wash up as you go. For example, if you've prepared a soup ahead of time and the roast and vegetables are on cooking, it's time to tidy up the mess so far. Vegetable scraps are taken out to the compost heap NOW. Meanwhile the other person washes up the knives and peelers - they are best rinsed immediately, wiped dry and put away. They do not need to be left to soak and then put through a wash-up. if you're not sure, boil the kettle and scald them before putting them away. Strop knives after every use. He's a bloke - get him to be responsible for keeping the knives sharp, it's a macho thing.

Dessert can be made a day ahead. Again, work as a team. Then you can both work as a team to set the table for dinner. Get husband to choose a suitable bottle of wine and set it up in the chiller.

As you do all this, talk to one another about what you are doing. "Have you done this yet? Oh, good." or "Don't forget to do X. Do you need me to talk you through it?" Or "The recipe and directions are in this book. Any questions?"

When your friends are eating dinner with you and complimenting you (as people do) make it clear - this was a joint effort, you and husband worked as a team.

When you do this with any level of success, your kids see it and learn from it. They learn how to interact, based on your example. They also learn that this is how marriages work, how people can cooperate to get tasks accomplished.

difficult child 1 is fairly 'thick' and needs regular prompting. But he does care, he just needs reminders. I found that to get him to actually do something like I described, I had to supervise him much more closely and talk him through steps in a lot more detail. But his sense of accomplishment afterwards was the big pay-off.

husband is in the shower. He will be wanting some level of *something* when he emerges. Because he helped me so much, I am not too tired, which otherwise I would have been. So his help brings a payoff for him.

Sometimes we need to teach the difficult child adults in our lives with the same methods we have to use on our kids.

Marg
 

Shari

IsItFridayYet?
Marg, I would love nothing more that for that to happen. My complaint for quite some time is our lack of a "partnership". He works with his parents re: the cows, etc. But I am never involved in anything that is a cooperative effort with husband.

First thing he did when settled at home after my accident? Install a 13" tube tv on top of the kitchen table so he can watch tv while he did anything in the kitchen. That ^%$#@! tv has him by the gonads. If he is in this house, he is in front of that tv.. I can watch tv and fold laundry. He doesn't seem capable.

He can cook. He can cook well. The problem he has is recognizing a need for cleanup. This may come from his mom...I need to take a picture of what he grew up in. Not that that is an excuse, but somewhat of an explanation. But right now, getting him to do anything is next to impossible. I didn't explode, but I am dead serious that this will NOT continue, and if that means he's gone, so be it...and I got an unhooked truck, a load of laundry put in the washer only (still there, by the way), and whatever else he did Wed night....last night was right back to the same thing.

I would love for him to have asked me to collaborate on the roof. He called his dad. This weekend, we have to replace an underground drain pipe. I have a feeling it will be easy child 1 and me. I've talked to him. It, too, has been broken since last fall. I said the weather's not too hot or cold, and we are free (if this isn't addressed by summer - it will be a major problem). His response? He needs to go to his co-worker's house and bring home some logs to cut up for firewood for our next camping trip and for his folks for next winter....

I am fairly certain he doesn't do this to be spiteful, tho if I get to him and get a real reaction/respoonse from him, he can get quite passive aggressive.

Our typical day here. We get up about the same time. He lets his dog out, maybe Wee's. He gets dressed, lets his dog in, and leaves for work. He leaves early tostop on the way to get breakfast. I take my shower, start Wee's bath, wake Wee. While he is in the tub, I get dressed for work, etc. Let my dog out, and Wee's if its not out. Usually husband's goes, too. When I'm dressed, Wee gets out of the tub, gets dressed, eats a bowl of cereal, takes medications, shoes/socks, and in the car. While he eats, I log on to work to see if there's anything I need to address immediately, since I get in late. Drive up and feed and water the chickens, and any horses that might be stalled (like when rain rot pony was stalled - its not a constant). Take Wee to school, walk him to his classroom, leave, and drive to work. Spend 8 hours at work, if I leave for lunch, its generally to get groceries. Today, I will pick up drain pipe on my lunch.

husband gets home by 5, fills the stock tank and puts out a big bale of hay if needed (big round bale - so only set out every 3-4 days). Now the horses are on pasture, so he won't be haying. And then his evening begins. It is common for this to be when he comes in and turns on the tv, and that's where he'll be til midnight pretty much every night. He might bring in some of easy child 1's dogfood on his way to feed his dog. Last night, he turned out a horse, and fished, then came inside, cleaned the fish, made some cheese dip for chips, and sat down. The empty cheese container, two salsa jars half emtpy, his take out sack, and the fish knife are all still on the counter. The cheese dip itself is in the fridge, not covered.

I get off between 430 and 5,often stay late on Tue or Thur because I don't have PT those days, go pick up Wee from grandma's, come home, unload whatever is in the car if I got groceries or whatever. Then I fix supper and do dishes, and then address whatever chore is looming largest. That would be fine if we live a typical suburban life, but we don't...that looming chore might be brakes on the truck, or it might be a week's worth of laundry, or, replacing a drain pipe (that is broken because husband drove where he was told not to....) or medicating a horse, or crawling in the attic to see what can be done to prevent a ceiling from falling in, or winterizing the house, or un-winterizing the house, or filing info for Wee's parent report folder, or fighting with insurance to get more PT, or pay bills, or whatever. Basically, if its not mowing the yard, it probably falls to me. And if it is mowing the yard and he doesn't have "his" mower, it still falls to me (he has changed the oil in the mower once...he's had it 4 years now, I think??? Maybe 3). And while I do those things (last night, after the meeting, I bought supplies for the drain line...I have to get more today), he sits there and watches tv.

When I got home last night, I only made sure Wee had clothes for today, and went to bed because I hurt really bad last night. I fell asleep in my clothes. He woke me this morning wanting *something*. And that's another thing....he has not once asked me "how are you" in this whole freakin' deal. And if I tell him anyway that I hurt? His response? "I know.. Mine does too." So I don't even say anything anymore. But I never go to bed early, or with my clothes on, or or or....and he didn't think a thing of any of it.

On nights I go to pt, I will send husband to pick up Wee, but its the same scaenario, except I'm home an hour later.
 
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