The Reveal

[New Leaf]

I was wondering if Tornado was released, it had been a few days since that now familiar number popped up on my phone. Then last night, my phone rang and curiosity got the best of me, so I picked up. After the long process of repetitive recorded messages, payment entry, more recorded messages, there on the other end, was Tornado.
She is as feisty and demanding as ever. “I need you to call my public defender and tell her to get down here and pick up my forms for treatment.” She rambled on that her PD was not answering her calls, that she has been beat up twice by two women who are stalking her, that she had to get out of there. I told her she should tell someone, to which she replied that it happened in full view of the workers there. “And it’s not like I can hide from them in my room.”
I told her that I was sorry that happened and it would be good for her to get treatment.........BOOM! Thunder and lightening, a torrent of denial and excuses, accusations, followed by demands for photos of her kids. Ugh.
I said calmly, “You just told me you signed up for treatment.”
“Why do you guys even think I use drugs? I signed up for treatment to get out of here, not because I need it.” Followed by another rambling of how she has been trying to take care of herself, never had to before, I wouldn’t help her......had to babysit her brother, had her kids young, the grandparents wouldn’t allow her to call them, blah, blah, blah. “They are not good people.”
It is everyone else’s fault.
Not buying into any of it.
Not going to pick up another call anytime soon and not going to drop everything to send her a letter.
What a piece of work.
Is it any wonder she is getting roughed up in there, if that is even a true story.
The things a less than 10 minute conversation can reveal.
Ugh.
Leafy

 

[Snow White]

Wow, Leafy. Just, wow. Your daughter and mine could get together and write a book on blame/fault/lies. It would be a best seller.

I'm sorry that you were temporarily blindsided by the phone call. Amazing how a 10 minute call can have your brain reeling for the rest of the day. I'd be questioning her claims of abuse, etc. If it were my daughter, she actually might be getting roughed up but that would probably be because she was doing her trash-talking to girls who are much tougher than she is.

I think your daughter is still waiting for a rescue attempt, whether it be from you, the PD or anyone who is willing to fix this. She hasn't hit rock bottom yet. I'm not sure that treatment would be effective at this point - it appears that she is not ready to buy into it and that she is just using it as a way to get out of where she is. Nothing has changed - just her location.

I'm so sorry you have this on your already-full plate. Sending you lots of hugs and prayers.

 

[New Leaf]

Amazing how a 10 minute call can have your brain reeling for the rest of the day. I'd be questioning her claims of abuse, etc. If it were my daughter, she actually might be getting roughed up but that would probably be because she was doing her trash-talking to girls who are much tougher than she is.

Hi Snow, Tornado could be telling partial truth. My son in law predicted that she would get into it in there, because of her “fast mouth.” Who knows?

Nothing has changed - just her location.

It is true, same old, same old. I haven’t spoken with her in a year, her choice, and this is all a repeat of her last rambling on.

I'm so sorry you have this on your already-full plate. Sending you lots of hugs and prayers.

Thank you Snow, but you know what they say about curiosity.........fortunately it is not killing me......just reaffirming my stance that she is right where she needs to be.
Hugs and prayers back at you!
Leafy
Ps......by the way.......nice name change!

 

[bluebell]

Geez. So I guess no 'How have you been?' My son claims that the electricity went out the 2 days he was in jail and that a riot ensued. Also a female inmate lost her life and he had to witness her being pulled out on a gurney with noone caring. He is a wonderful writer and manages to convey this in horror movie detail. I can't find any evidence that this happened, but of course he tells me it's all part of the justice system and the marginalization of 'his kind'. You don't even know what to say, except 'wow maybe you need treatment after seeing all that'.

 

[bluebell]

Oh, and I if I had a nickel for every time my son uttered 'They are not good people.' about whoever is not giving him what he wants, then I would be a rich woman. How is he an authority on morally 'good' people? I don't even make those kinds of broad generalizations about people when I judge them. This is 'splitting'. Black or white, good or bad. No gray in between.

 

[Deni D]

He Leafy ~ I’ve been reading along since she was arrested. Seems like a long time ago with the whirlwind she’s created. But it’s only been a month and a week, a very short time. I’m hoping they keep her in there long enough for her to actually start to get treatment. Even if it only starts out as a ploy maybe she will continue. And I’m hoping she hates it there so much that she makes sure it never happens again. We go towards the things we like and run away from the things we don’t like. Maybe she will clear her head enough so that she decides running away from the things she doesn’t like, as in jail and homelessness, is what she wants to do.

 

[New Leaf]

So I guess no 'How have you been?'

Right? This is typical Tornado, life revolves around her and the misery she created for herself, her children, her family, that is “everyone else’s fault.” No realization that I have had to learn to take care of myself since her father passed, that I have a job, responsibility and her brother is graduating this year. No appreciation that her kids paternal grandparents have been raising her kids with no financial assistance. Ugh.

He is a wonderful writer and manages to convey this in horror movie detail. I can't find any evidence that this happened, but of course he tells me it's all part of the justice system and the marginalization of 'his kind'. You don't even know what to say, except 'wow maybe you need treatment after seeing all that'.

Indeed. Can’t separate the fabrication from the truth. Except that her own kids have seen her “smoking something from a glass pipe”, seen her fluctuations in mood, been hungry because she traded their food for booze and drug money, been abandoned.

I had a nickel for every time my son uttered 'They are not good people.' about whoever is not giving him what he wants, then I would be a rich woman.

Me too, Bluebell. Amazing at the things my daughter has done, yet still judges others harshly. She has a lot to learn.

Seems like a long time ago with the whirlwind she’s created. But it’s only been a month and a week, a very short time.

I had to do the math. It has been a short time, but for someone who has lived as she has, it must seem like a lifetime. Too bad.

I’m hoping they keep her in there long enough for her to actually start to get treatment. Even if it only starts out as a ploy maybe she will continue

That is my thinking, Deni. She has a thickened callous around her heart and her responsibility in all of this. Only time will tell what comes round the bend.

hoping she hates it there so much that she makes sure it never happens again. We go towards the things we like and run away from the things we don’t like. Maybe she will clear her head enough so that she decides running away from the things she doesn’t like, as in jail and homelessness, is what she wants to do.

She had some wonderful experiences in her young life, traveling, learning and living her Hawaiian culture. Hopefully she will use those skills buried deep within to navigate a brighter path. We shall see.
Thank you so much for your response guys. It is good to get this out of my system. It is a festering mess, otherwise. Definitely not conversation for break time.
Off to work I go. Have a blessed day all.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[Copabanana]

My son in a matter of ten seconds can inflict the greatest pain.

The image of a can opener comes to mind. The old fashioned ones for soda or beer cans designed solely to puncture through to that which is contained within. That is what my son does to my heart. In ten seconds. Or less.

Like with the tin can there is no defense in my structure. There is no pretense to lock and key. No collaboration like with a pop top. Just metal tearing. And a gaping jagged hole. In which to put a straw

 

[RN0441]

Leafy

So glad that you know that you are doing the right thing by not doing a thing.

It takes so so long to get to that point.

I agree, nothing has changed. But don't lose hope because it could change!

Hugs.

 

[Wish]

Hi Leafy,

What a reveal indeed. She definitely hasn't hit her rock bottom yet, but she's on her way there so long as the lesson she needs to learn isn't interrupted. If she were that scared of those girls, she would have been a lot more humble in her phone call you would think but also I am sure she is pretty stubbron even to her own detriment.

I don't think it will be too much longer until they release her. They can't keep her there on that kind of a charge that much longer. I would say two more months, top, at the longest, but probably much sooner. However, I hope it's not that much sooner because in her current emotional state, she seems like she is going to be a handful to the staff members in rehab which will not bode well for her. Rehabs do not tolerate ornery behavior for very long. You only get one, two, maybe 3 chances if your lucky and she seems like she will blow through those 3 chances in under a week by the way she is talking right now. If rehab is the only way you can get signed out of jail, meaning you don't have anyone to bail you out, and you get kicked out of said rehab.....the judges really detest that. She won't get anymore second chances after that. Off to prison she goes, because her charge will then turn into a more serious one for lack of a better way to explain it. Courts usually will work with low offenders on a semi- serious charge which I know said earlier that it wasn't a serious charge, but it's confusing how the court system handles it. If she does what she is suppose to do, they won't be that hard on her, but if she doesn't, it will be hard on her. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I feel like I am babbling and I apologize if I am.

My wish for her is to stay in jail a little bit longer so this way so she can become more humble, hit her rock bottom or get as close to it as she can, so she has a better chance at rehab when she goes. You can tell her if you speak to her againt that rehabs aren't only for drug addicts. You can apply their lessons to any situation in your life. I am praying nothing but success for her and all of our children. I still have faith your girls can turn this around, especially Rain but as you said, it will be difficult for her to get herself out of that lifestyle since she is so immersed in it. I really liked when you said "I do see the good in her reaching out" about her, that touched my heart personally. How loving of you as a mother to be willing to see that and acknowledge that.

Anyway, I am always here sending you lots of hugs and loves Leafy. Keep on hanging in there.

 

[Lil]

Aw...Leafy. That stinks. It is amazing how much damage they can do and how they can ruin your day with just one call. I hope you don't let her do it and you go on with a better frame of mind. Big hugs to you!

This is 'splitting'. Black or white, good or bad. No gray in between.

This baffles me. My son was like this too. Things are perfect or horrible. People are good or bad. That and rules are rules and EVERYONE breaks them, but he is the only one caught EVER.

Boggled my mind, him being that way. There was never any shade of gray and no effort to understand the nuances of life.

 

[DoneDad]

She wants this and that. She wants to blame everybody including you for her problems. The good news is that you don’t have to listen if you don’t want to, especially while she’s in jail.

 

[Copabanana]

I am finding her sense of entitlement and lack of empathy insufferable too. She is like the yellow tiger in a book I read as a child spinning, spinning in a circle, until he melts into a yellow mass, a pool of butter. Like this, she will fall into a heap into herself. When all of this frenetic activity, finger pointing, manipulating, demanding, frantic activity, stops. What will be left? Herself.

All of us do this, I think. At least I do. I think that was what I did with the online shopping. Shop until you drop. Doing anything I could to keep dancing, so that the horrible feelings would not come. Keep the illusion as long as I could that something external could take away the pain.

In daughter's case there must be so much regret and shame and responsibility right below the surface.

Lest we begin to have empathy for them, (which deters us from our mission, to stay located in ourselves) let us remember here how insufferable they are.

Oh. There is nothing fun about this. New Leaf. Oh. How sorry I am that we, you, and suffering this.

 

[New Leaf]

The image of a can opener comes to mind. The old fashioned ones for soda or beer cans designed solely to puncture through to that which is contained within. That is what my son does to my heart. In ten seconds. Or less.

oh Copa, I am so sorry for your heartache. It is like this with contact with my two, they know how to shred me when they want to, when it suits them. There is no holding back, empathy or natural affection. When driving to work, I thought about your reply and how I felt that I was more of a “thing” to them oftentimes, then their mother. I have posted before that I was an “opportunity” to be had, straight through my heart and love for them. In this, I agree with you, how devastatingly painful it is. I am sorry.

Like with the tin can there is no defense in my structure. There is no pretense to lock and key. No collaboration like with a pop top. Just metal tearing. And a gaping jagged hole. In which to put a straw

Then you shall change from tin, to titanium, impenetrable.
This we owe as much to ourselves, as we do to them, that we will not allow them to tread all over us, and leave us empty and bleeding out on the floor. It only goads them on to do it more, and fuels their own self loathing. That’s how I feel right now. I have that righteous indignation brewing that you posted, advising me not to buy into Tornados toilet wrapping scrap writing, Bible quoting, “join me in my parade” notes.
I started to think as I drove that they would make us their prey, if we let them. That the more we act and feel as victims, the stronger their predation upon us. I am not saying your son, or my daughter, are sociopaths, but they do both bear those tendencies with their drugknapped brains. They are akin to toddlers or teenagers throwing tantrums and screaming out how they hate us......with their actions. Did we melt down into a puddle then, or put on our parent hat and refuse to be drawn into that pile of ?
Refuse to be prey. That is my mantra today.
Then I looked up “people who are predators”, because that is how my daughters in their feral, drug influenced minds, have acted towards me, pouncing on me at my most vulnerable times.
This is what I found, and clearly, this is how my two waywards have behaved and mistreated me.
http://www.beliefnet.com/love-famil...urprising-traits-of-predatory-people.aspx?p=6
Still, I love them, and hope and pray for them, but I will not be their prey.
I feel broken-hearted and sad many times, but this is not the place I want to stay, it kills me, and does nothing to help them look within and want to change. They are too focused on the weak and broken in the herd........me.
What if I were to be strong and solid, unmovable by their rants and choices. Like this...........

Our kids want us to pay the price. We drive the car. We pay the toll. They take the car. They crash the car. They want us to fix it or buy a new one. Why??

So they can freeload some more. Have an easy way to buy their stuff. And call the shots in our houses. And gossip about us, about what we did wrong.

All unacceptable and predatory.
It’s a jungle in this “world” our adult kids have created for themselves. I want no part of it. I thank you for reminding me, of this, dear friend.
If they want to have a decent relationship with me, then they have to step it up, instead of trying to drag me down into that realm.
BAH!
Leaf
Ps, of course, I could be balling my eyes out tomorrow. But, that is my prerogative.

 

[New Leaf]

What a reveal indeed. She definitely hasn't hit her rock bottom yet, but she's on her way there so long as the lesson she needs to learn isn't interrupted.

After so many years dealing with this, I often wonder where rock bottom is? My two seem to survive drilling to earths center.

I am sure she is pretty stubbron even to her own detriment.

Super stubborn, always right. Ugh. There is no discussion with her, anything contrary to what she wants to hear invokes a tirade.

My wish for her is to stay in jail a little bit longer so this way so she can become more humble, hit her rock bottom or get as close to it as she can, so she has a better chance at rehab when she goes.

I hope so too, Wish, but I have no expectations. Her sister is worried about retaliation when she gets out, that she will have a bigger chip on her shoulder. Hopefully this is not true, but it is possible that she will be more ornery than ever.

I still have faith your girls can turn this around, especially Rain but as you said, it will be difficult for her to get herself out of that lifestyle since she is so immersed in it.

Indeed. Not giving up, just continuing to give in to any notion that I have the power to “fix” them. They have to want it for themselves. Rain is at the moment, not uncomfortable enough with her lifestyle to want different.

Anyway, I am always here sending you lots of hugs and loves Leafy. Keep on hanging in there.

Love and hugs back at you Wish. Don’t ever apologize for “babbling”, I am the ace for that! I do so appreciate your thoughts and experiences.

Aw...Leafy. That stinks. It is amazing how much damage they can do and how they can ruin your day with just one call. I hope you don't let her do it and you go on with a better frame of mind. Big hugs to you!

Thanks Lil. I have not picked up her calls, since. I don’t need more of the same at this point!

She wants this and that. She wants to blame everybody including you for her problems. The good news is that you don’t have to listen if you don’t want to, especially while she’s in jail.

Exactly, DoneDad. I am done listening to her for now.

I am finding her sense of entitlement and lack of empathy insufferable too.

This has been her way for a few years now. She is like an unrepentant, out of control, rebellious teenager.
My quote thingee isn’t working again...... I wanted to answer to the regret and shame Tornado must be feeling. I am hoping it is there beneath the drug haze, because if it isn’t, then there is something really, really, really amiss with her. I have often thought that her litany of repetitive excuses is stuffing down her part in all of this. Hopefully, she hasn’t buried her responsibility so deep as to lose all conscience? Is that drug driven, or evidence of a very sick mind? The answer won’t come until she is clean.

Oh. There is nothing fun about this. New Leaf. Oh. How sorry I am that we, you, are suffering this.

I think the big exercise here is to try as best can, not to make it our suffering? Maybe that is why we bend over backwards to try to “help”, because if our adult kids would just get on a good track, we would be more at ease. I think that is where they get to us, they must know how it pains us.
I am going to equate this suffering to plantar fasciitis, which hurts like the dickens when I first step out of bed, but eases as I walk on my heel. Each episode with my two is like that, it hurts, but as time goes by, I am finding ways to adjust my thinking and reaction. You guys help tremendously with that. And prayer. I have to think that these trials for my two are lessons. They have to figure out what they want in life.
It is a lesson for me, too. What do I want to focus on? What is my value and worth, irrespective of what my adult children choose? How far into their pain do I want to immerse myself. Then I have to wonder how much pain are they in, if they continue to choose poorly and reap these consequences? Am I transferring my pain, my feelings, on to what I perceive is theirs?
Doesn’t pain teach us to avoid whatever it is that causes it? As I mentioned earlier, their rock bottom seems to be an endless chasm. That is my interpretation of rock bottom for.......me. I can’t see living as they do, but they seem to just shrug it off.
So, why should I fall into a pit of suffering? What good is my downfall? It only causes me to lose precious time, and does nothing for them.
Now, I am blabbering.
But, I think what I am writing about is the enmeshment cycle with addicted loved ones. We get so caught up in what they are doing, their circumstances, consequences, how they are feeling, how we are feeling. Admittedly, I have a tinge of guilt over not answering Tornados calls, when I know it would be more of the same, that I am establishing boundaries that are essential to my own well being.
I am trying to channel my Dad. He wouldn’t put up with it. We had enough respect for him, not to go there. He commanded respect with his demeanor. It exuded from him, like an invisible force field.
Tornado will have to change her tune.
Thank you all for your support. It has helped me so very much.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[New Leaf]

I did it again, the phone number showed up, and I answered.
I don’t know why.
It’s just more of the same.
“Did you send me the letter? The pictures?”
I have had an extremely busy week with work and sons activities. “Not yet” I replied, tried to explain my schedule and having to go through my photo albums.
Another blow up ensued.
“I can’t believe you, I need unconditional love. You never looked for me, or even tried to reach me on Instagram....” Then the kicker.....”You know you didn’t just lose your husband, I lost my father”
Boom, hang up....she did.
I shouldn’t be surprised, and I am too angry to be hurt.
Straight for the heart.
Of all the nerve. She has been out there free wheeling and partying. Left her kids, and judges me.
Who is she?
Bah.

You guys can tell me you told me so.
I am telling myself that!
Mad Leafy

 

[Tired out]

Ugh, Sorry you answered the phone. Hugs fir you , I know you don;t really need them but I am sending them anyway! I expect a text from mine any day that he needs money. What are we always the ones they want to fix/help with their messes?

 

[Copabanana]

New leaf. Nobody judges you. Anybody would have done as you did. It is all of it on her.

I answered the phone last night from my son. And luckily he could not hear me, but inflicted damage via text. How he is traumatized by events involving me.

That I was ego fillled. And darkness and evil prevailed. Whatever that means.

I replied: look in the mirror. It's you. Not me. And :leave me alone. Adding: I'm blocking you.

And then I worried all night and day he would self harm. I have heard nothing since.

But i worried. M said: let him live his life. Its his not your responsibility. It has not a thing to do with you. Think positive thoughts. He's mad because you are not doing what he wants. Let him live with it. Don't worry. (I am repeating this, because he's right. I want you to feel better.)

I felt like you do. Stabbed in the heart. And guilty. And angry. At myself

You see. In relation to us they are predators. They are either seeking to consume what we have. Or retaliating if we do not proffer it, without resistance.

New leaf. Her attack is because you don't go belly up.

While she is like this, she will not be different.

You are her mark. Or her victim. Either/or.

She is the boss. She determines your value. She calls the shots. Like a Dom.

There is NO possibility if another type of interaction with them. While she is in this mindset.

When will she change? If she stays in jail, I think in 6 months WITH NO CONTACT with you she may be more open.

Curiously, that is the timeframe m gave me for my own son. About 5 mos. Where m got this number I don't know. But I worked in reception centers in prisons. And it takes that time for the street to wear off.

Meanwhile. It angers me (at her) that you need to justify yourself to her. Why?

I think you are entirely within the right to restrict contact and set your rules. Which could be: letters, no contact, or whatever else you may need.

I believe she needs to be curbed. But I could be assessing this thru the lens of my own child.

I am sorry.

 

[Deni D]

Leafy ~ It makes me so angry for you that she’s done this to you, again. You are strong. Answering a phone call, from jail of all places, is not something you should beat yourself up over. You held your own with her while you were on that call. Pat yourself on the back for that. You let her know the world does not revolve around her. She hasn’t considered her father or her children for a longtime, if ever, she’s gotten the natural consequences of that. You are doing life, she is not. Unconditional love does not mean anyone should take crap and fulfill demands from someone else. I wonder what she would say to you if you told her you needed unconditional love and to stop acting like an ass towards you.

 

[Albatross]

Leafy, I'm sorry you had to receive such a call. She's being (I only say this because what I REALLY want to say will be bleeped out) a (real jerk). And I am not making excuses for her, because it's inexcusable. I'm angry too. What a (ahem...jerk).

BUT, in some tiny way, it also makes me feel a little bit hopeful. She's like a cornered animal. She can't shunt her emotions with substances or wild them away, so she has no choice but to start to process her (ahem...stuff).

It reminds me of the calls we received when my son was angling to get out of jail and the first few months in sober living. Good lord -- I don't know why we answered the phone.

You would be well within your rights not to.

I'm so sorry for the way she drew blood. It's terrible and uncalled for and a cheap shot, discounting your loss that way.

BUT...it sounds like she is starting to process her (ahem...crap). She's starting to grieve, and to acknowledge. Quite inappropriately and directed at whomever is unlucky enough to be in the line of fire, but it's a start. I fervently hope she let a little light in with her outburst. Maybe some of her darkness can be dispelled.

In the meantime, you would be well within your rights not to take any calls from her for quite awhile.